5x5 size gains?

[ZGzaZ]

I've read a few posts recently, which mentioned when they got off 5x5 and on to another program, they saw better size gains. 5x5 to me, looks like a good program for both size and strength, but are people noticing mainly strength gains on it? Do you people feel like better hypertrophy gains come with programs with more isolation movements, and higher rep schemes?

 

[ZGzaZ]

bump....is anyone getting good mass gains on starrs 5x5? or mainly strength?

 

[fortunatesun]

I felt I got better hypertrophy gains after switching to a 5x5/PL set-up. I'd come to the conclusion some time before that I got better gains with lower reps . This was one of the factors than made me switch to a 'strength' oriented approach in the first place. It was a good choice for me because less turned out to be more.
Part of this may be due to some incipient overtraining from the trad. split. And of course a whole new approch led to a newbie-like growth spurt.
This could explain the phenomenon you brought up. A fresh start will lead to a period of faster growth. Plus undoubtedly some people do better with higher reps.
The other point would be that they've built a solid base to work from with the 5x5. The limitations of 5x5 are the same with any other solid program. Adaptation will lead to diminishing returns. Knowing when to vary the formula and how will determine your long term success.

 

[Cynical Simian]

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/Topics/Training_Primer.htm

 

[BiggT]

I've never really trained "for mass on a BB style routine" per se....I have built a lot of muscle between the time I started training and now. The only things I do for 'mass' are backoff sets occasionally or assistance work like chins/rows/jump shrugs, the odd couple sets of curls.

Zgzaz, I have probably read the same posts you're referring to, lol, and honestly they irk me too.....'5x5' and training lifts is not for just strength, unless you're doing purely neural work (like max singles) you're going to grow muscle as a by-product of getting stronger at a legit rep range.....typically anything over max triples will promote hypertrophy provided the trainee actually eats.

Gaining mass goes hand in hand with eating, if somebody isn't eating enough calories to move the scale, they won't gain any mass on any routine. '5x5' style training and training lifts progressively is growing popular on the 'net because it works, it always has and always will. The problem is that many people on internet boards eat like girls, way too clean/too few calories, and way too micro-managed (think of guys pondering and debating whether or not to eat 3 egg whites at 9 AM or 9:15 AM, when they miss the bigger picture, which is that aren't getting in enough cals and it doesn't matter when they eat them).....I think if people would relax and eat, they'd grow.

 

[ZGzaZ]

I've never really trained "for mass on a BB style routine" per se....I have built a lot of muscle between the time I started training and now. The only things I do for 'mass' are backoff sets occasionally or assistance work like chins/rows/jump shrugs, the odd couple sets of curls.

Zgzaz, I have probably read the same posts you're referring to, lol, and honestly they irk me too.....'5x5' and training lifts is not for just strength, unless you're doing purely neural work (like max singles) you're going to grow muscle as a by-product of getting stronger at a legit rep range.....typically anything over max triples will promote hypertrophy provided the trainee actually eats.

Gaining mass goes hand in hand with eating, if somebody isn't eating enough calories to move the scale, they won't gain any mass on any routine. '5x5' style training and training lifts progressively is growing popular on the 'net because it works, it always has and always will. The problem is that many people on internet boards eat like girls, way too clean/too few calories, and way too micro-managed (think of guys pondering and debating whether or not to eat 3 egg whites at 9 AM or 9:15 AM, when they miss the bigger picture, which is that aren't getting in enough cals and it doesn't matter when they eat them).....I think if people would relax and eat, they'd grow.

Good response, thank you.

 

[dhawkins]

great link cynical, answered a lot of questions I had. Loved the comparison between training and going tanning!

 

[Protobuilder]

The limitations of 5x5 are the same with any other solid program. Adaptation will lead to diminishing returns. Knowing when to vary the formula and how will determine your long term success.

I think that is a very very critical point. I've NEVER seen a bodybuilding/hypertrophy routine that TAUGHT you anything. The 5x5 does. That alone is worth the price of admission. It TEACHES you how to train. That alone will help you WAY more than 99% of anything else you do in your lifting career. Whether it yields more size or more strength blah blah blah . . .it will vary for different people, but you can't overlook the fact that it will teach you a TON if you run it properly and at the very least, you will benefit from running lower reps than your typical BB'r wannabe is used to.

As for low reps vs. high reps for size . . . I think most people studying this field allow for a fatigue/metabolic component to hypertrophy. How much of a role it plays is disputed and probably varies from person to person. You achieve the fatigue/metabolic reactions from higher reps generally. Hence backoff/burnout sets. The train starts to leave the tracks when you focus solely on metabolic/fatigue stuff and ignore the heavier tension work (1-5s), which is where you get long-term myofibrillar hypertrophy (bigger fibers).

 

[ZGzaZ]

proto, good info, thank you sir.