5X5 SF or DF?

[ics]

Hi I am new to this forum and have been reading about Madcow's 5X5 routines.

I have been currently training H.I.T style for over a year and now want to try something new. My question is should I start with the single factor or dual factor 5X5 routine. Not sure if I classify as a beginner or not.

Thanks

ICS

 

[Cynical Simian]

Single Factor.

 

[kethnaab]

definitely single factor

HIT jedis would die a painful death if they tried DF.

What exercises were you doing on your HIT, out of curiosity?

 

[ics]

definitely single factor

HIT jedis would die a painful death if they tried DF.

What exercises were you doing on your HIT, out of curiosity?

I started of with Darden's routines and then ended with Mentzer's. The last month or so I have been doing squats, chins, deadlifts and dips working out only once a week.

Sounds like SF is what I should start with but for how long?
This maybe a stupid question but is the 5x5 routines geared for size or strength. My Goal is mainly size but welcome any strength gains as well.
Is the 5x5 routine a good routine for size or should I be doing something else?

One last thing. Do you train to failure when doing 5x5? Sorry but I am so used to the H.I.T way of things.

Thanks for the quick replies everyone.

ICS

 

[BiggT]

Any routine that increases capicity in compound lifts is good for overall size. The 5x5 is really an efficient, idiot proof way to do that. It works and works well for size and strength in a wide variety of trainees. While certain people respond better to training than others, virtually everybody will progress with this routine.

The most important thing for size though is to eat. It boils down to calories in vs. calories out.

Single factor and dual factor are not 'programs'. They are methodologies. If full-body workouts, multiple times a week is new to you, then do the single factor version for as long as you can make gains on it. It may be 2 months, it may be 2 years. the best advice I can give is milk it for all it is worth. If you can still gain linearly, this is the fastest, most efficient, easiest, biggest no-brainer of a way to do so. I have noticed a trend lately where a lot of guys think 'dual factor' is sexier, lol. It really isn't, and if single factor training never stopped working, you'd have to be an asshole to use a dual factor approach. DF is simply a way to keep on progressing when you reach a more advanced level, it is not 'better'..it does not make you "cooler" lol.....but it is the most efficient way for advanced athletes to progress, in my opinion it is foolish if guys can still make progress linearly......it is like taking the 'scenic route' when the short cut still works for you.....when the short cut stops working, then get fancy, but milk the short cut as long as it can possibly work for you..

 

[ics]

Thanks for the advice guys. SF it is then.

ICS

 

[Madcow2]

FYI - I didn't alter the two workout links in the thread yet but here's the updated linear on my geocities site. http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

 

[casualbb]

that routine rules! frequent work, linear progression... respect.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Personally, I'd take two weeks off from training if you've been going at it HIT-style. After those two weeks, start on a beginner program. Do something like this:

Day A
Squat - 3x5
Bench - 3x5
Deadlift - 1x5 / Row - 3x5

Day B
Squat - 3x5
Overhead Press - 3x5
Pullup - 3x5

Deadlifts are alternated with rows, OHPs are done standing, squats are full, olympic style back squats, blah blah blah. Train Monday, Wednesday, Friday, alternating the days.

Add weight to the lifts every session, provided you hit all your desired reps. When you miss your target reps, try two more times. If you don't get it after three times, decrement the weight 10-20 lbs. (depending on the exercise) and ramp back up. If this still fails, it's time to move on to a less frequent progression, such as the SF 5x5.

I advise this, simply 'cause you're likely not conditioned well, and a beginner routine can still work wonders for you. I also advise the time off to let your muscles and joints rejuvenate themselves, 'cause if you've really been doing HIT, you're likely pretty beat up. You will be if you start squatting 3x a week, anyway. Give it some rest, hop on the more-frequent-training bandwagon, and join us. And drink the magical kool-aid.

 

[ics]

Thanks for the link Madcow2. I think I will start your routine once I become more conditioned.

Anthrax Invasion,
I think I will give your routine a go and see what happens.
Do you Ramp up the weight with the 3x5 or do you do all three sets with the same weight?

Should I only stick with the compounds you mentioned or can I throw in some isolation bicep and tricep work?


Thanks

ICS

 

[nelmsjer]

AI, I'm curious why you are suggesting 2 full weeks off after a HIT program. What fitness, nervous, or muscular levels are so overloaded that he would need that? I'm in complete agreement with the beginner program for a bit to get used to the frequency and to learn more about his body in those rep ranges, but I don't get the 2 weeks off...

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

All sets are done with the same weight. Do the warmups you need to build up to the working weight. Rest as needed between sets, but don't go beyond four minutes (should take you a while to reach that point anyway). Start rather conservative to ensure at least four weeks of progression or so.

As for isolation, I wouldn't bother initially. See how it works for you at first. If you really need to, throw in one bicep and tricep movement, something like two sets, twice a week (say Monday & Friday), for high-end reps (12-15) for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Most of your growth will come from the compounds anyway.

Well the two weeks off may be a bit much. I'd go for a week still, but that's just me. HIT usually beats guys up pretty badly, and I think one who's been doing it over a year (assuming he's been consistent) should let his body recover. If he's really been going to failure constantly, he's likely pretty drained. A week may not be enough, so I advised two. Plus, if hypertrophy is part of his goal (stabbing in the dark, here) then the time off could theoretically do him well (i.e., deconditioning/deloading). If ceasing to train isn't for him (i.e., needs to be active) he can do some play work in the gym (nothing intense) to keep occupied but still allow himself to recover.

 

[ics]

All sets are done with the same weight. Do the warmups you need to build up to the working weight. Rest as needed between sets, but don't go beyond four minutes (should take you a while to reach that point anyway). Start rather conservative to ensure at least four weeks of progression or so.

As for isolation, I wouldn't bother initially. See how it works for you at first. If you really need to, throw in one bicep and tricep movement, something like two sets, twice a week (say Monday & Friday), for high-end reps (12-15) for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Most of your growth will come from the compounds anyway.

Well the two weeks off may be a bit much. I'd go for a week still, but that's just me. HIT usually beats guys up pretty badly, and I think one who's been doing it over a year (assuming he's been consistent) should let his body recover. If he's really been going to failure constantly, he's likely pretty drained. A week may not be enough, so I advised two. Plus, if hypertrophy is part of his goal (stabbing in the dark, here) then the time off could theoretically do him well (i.e., deconditioning/deloading). If ceasing to train isn't for him (i.e., needs to be active) he can do some play work in the gym (nothing intense) to keep occupied but still allow himself to recover.

Anthrax Invasion

Thanks for the info. I have actually not trained for about a week and a half do to a busy schedule. I feel very energetic and ready to train.

Thanks

ICS