5x5 questions

[JumpBallWinner]

I plan to use the madcow 5x5 for my next bulking program. I have a few questions though. I notice no direct bicep or tricep work on the program. I know that these exercises do utilize these muscles, but I was wondering if it's ok to ad a small amount of direct work to them afte the workouts. I was thinking maybe doing some skull crushers and dips at the end of the mon and fri workouts and then a few sets of BB curls and preacher curls at the end of the wensday workout... then alternating from week to week by doing the bicep work on mon and fri and the tricep work on wen only to give some balance to the amount of work and rest they see. If this is alright, should I use the 5x5 method on these exercises also, or just do a few sets of 8-10 like I normally would on my basic routine? I currently do a military press in my shoulder routine. I do it standing in the squat rack.... but I do it behind the neck. Is this ok to use in the program or do I need to do them to the front? I was also wondering if most people used the mon/wen/fri 3x3 program at the end, or if they used the alternate program which is only mon/wen. I don't wanna mess up my gains by doing too much work, but it just seems like it's gonna be hard to make the big gains in strength and size toward the end of the program when I'm only doing 9 reps a week for each exercise. But then again I don't know much about this type of training, so that could be my ignorance showing with the typical "more is better" thinking. I plan on doing cardio on tue and thur. My cardio consist of wind sprints ran with a parachute and then some hill running. Will that interfere with my leg recovery from the squats and hinder size and strength development in them? Thanx for any help.

 

[JL_204]

You can add a couple of sets of direct arm work if you want.

I would the military presses to the front. Behind the neck just seems like an injury waiting to happen.

As for the 2x per week deload youll have to feel your way through it. If you feel you need some extra recovery then do it.

The first time running this program is kind of a feeler. If you run it again youll get a much better idea of you tolerances and working capacity.

 

[Guinness5.0]

You can add a couple of sets of direct arm work if you want.

I would the military presses to the front. Behind the neck just seems like an injury waiting to happen.

As for the 2x per week deload youll have to feel your way through it. If you feel you need some extra recovery then do it.

The first time running this program is kind of a feeler. If you run it again youll get a much better idea of you tolerances and working capacity.

Dead on.

I just want to reiterate that a little arm work is fine but keep it in the higher rep range like you mentioned. I don't think more than one movement will be necessary. In my run I did a couple of sets of curls now and then (no set pattern) when I felt the need. I didn't do tricep work as the pressing seemed more than adequate. Play it by ear but don't waste too much focus on your arms- if you end up costing yourself rowing/pressing strength from doing too much direct arm work you'll probably end up with smaller arms than you would if full energy was focused on those movements.

 

[blut wump]

I typically did some triceps work on the Monday workout and kept intending to do biceps work at the end of the Friday workout but never got around to it. Keep it down to around three sets of 8 reps and leave it at that and don't add anything but abs work to the Wednesday workout. If you're unused to dual-factor training, this program can be a shock once you hit week three and the day2 workout is the hardest, as anyone here can testify.

I'd leave the dips out altogether. The program will make big inroads into your recovery ability and dips could interfere with your bench. The wind and hill work are likely to take their toll on your legs and I'd drop them unless you think that you have the tolerance for the extra work. See how it goes but weeks 3 and 4 can be brutal and are intended to be so.

I always do my standng MP to the front. Actually I don't think I've ever done standing MP to the rear. I suspect you can handle more weight to the front.

Regarding the 2x per week and 3x per week Intensity phase: after you have burnt yourself out by reaching the end of week4, your body will be ready for deloading and you will acrue many of the benfits of your labours over the following couple of weeks. The Intensity phase moves the training emphasis over towards neuromuscular efficiency from the muscle conditioning and building of the Volume phase. On a first run-through you might be better off running the alternative 2x per week protocol. A lot depends on your experience and some here have run a hybrid of the two. You have four weeks t think about it once you start.

 

[rbtrout]

Couldn't have said it better, blut.

 

[JumpBallWinner]

Alright, thanx for the help all. I think what I'll plan on doing for the deloading phase is run it two times a week, and maybe instead of mon and wed, run it mon and thur so the rest periods are more even inbetween workouts. I wanted to get something else straight about this program also. After the first two weeks, I should always be trying to increase the weight on every lift from week to week as long as I'm getting the reps? Except on the deload week where I use the the same weight as the 4th week except for lower reps and sets, then immediately start trying to go as heavy as possible again for the desired rep range and trying to increase weights from week to week all the way until the end of the program? Is this correct? If so, seems like it's gonna be intense and hard to do that, but I'm guessing from what I've read on this program, that it makes it possible to do. I'll be running a cycle throughout the program, more so as extra padding to prevent overtraining if I screw something up in the program rather than to help me with the gains. Although I'm sure it will. And I'm guessing that I want to eat like hell while doing this to get the most out of it? Currently 5'10 219 with about 18%bf. Bulking right now, have been for about six weeks. Gained 20lbs so far, but a lil of that is fat, so I'm gonna cut after this for 5-6wks before running the 5x5 and hopefully get down to about 205 while trying to keep most of my muscle and strength. If I could get down to that 205, then back up to 220 on the madcow, but with the fat amount I had at 205..... that would be nice

 

[blut wump]

To plot out your weight for the program, you need to have a rough idea of what your max lifts are for 5x5 and for 1x5 in Row, Bench, OHP, Deads etc. You plug these numbers in as your intended weights for week3 or even a shade higher. Back off quite a bit for week1 and go maybe half-way for week2. In week4 you try to better your week3 lifts.

The idea is that the first four weeks go Easy-Medium-Hard-Harder and push you into the beginnings of overtraining.

I'm a little confused regarding your intentions on the AAS cycle. As I read it, you're currently 6 weeks into your cycle and you're planning to finish your cycle then cut for 5 or 6 weeks and then begin the 5x5? If so you're looking at another 3 months before you begin this. Have I misinterpreted?

Anyway, spend some more time reading through the 5x5 instructions to get the idea of deliberately overtraining and then deloading.

 

[JumpBallWinner]

I'm a little confused regarding your intentions on the AAS cycle. As I read it, you're currently 6 weeks into your cycle and you're planning to finish your cycle then cut for 5 or 6 weeks and then begin the 5x5? If so you're looking at another 3 months before you begin this. Have I misinterpreted?

I think that's it. Right now I've been bulking for about six weeks. Didn't know about 5x5 when I started this time around. So I've been eating like hell and doing my standard split. Mon- Chest tris Tue Back bis forearms Wed Legs Thur Shoulders, Light chest. The results have been good. I set a weight goal that I wanted to get up to while bulking this time, and I wanted to reach it within 10wks. Well, I've reached it in 6, but I'm gonna continue to bulk for the remaining 3 or 4, just because all of this strength I'm building really keeps me in a good mood, and I don't mind if I get even bigger than I had planned. But after this, I'm gonna cut for about six weeks. Not gonna be using any AAS, just an ECA stack and a good diet, and lots of cardio. I've got a weight goal that I wanna get down to while cutting, without losing more than 10-15lbs on any of my lifts (which is gonna be hell on bench because it always drops like a fly). Then after this, I'll kick the diet back in high gear, start aas and work my way into the 5x5 hoping I do it right. So yea, it'll be a couple months before I start, but I'm starting to plan for it right now and trying to get everything in order because it seems like something that can easily be done wrong, and I wanna make sure that I do it right starting with the first time around.