5th week 5x5, bit confused

[Micker]

I just finished the 4th week of madcow's 5x5. Set prs in everything and feel great. Glad I listened to you guys . Well, I have to do the deload/Intensity phase now and I just seem to be seeing conflicting things. For week 5, do I do 3 workouts again and just do 1x3/3x3 instead of 5, or do I do 2 workouts cutting the wed. workout out?? I take it I use the same weight in week 5 as I did week 4, then the next few weeks, up the weight each week till week 8?? Just want to be sure I do it right. For example I did 215x5x5/220x5 pyramid for my last workout in the benchpress, if you want to use that weight as an example. Thanks!!

 

[Guinness5.0]

You have two options:

-you can run it 2x/week (M and Th or T and F) using squat/bench/row and then dead/military/chin for a couple weeks. You simply use week 4's weights in 3 sets of three for all of 'em. Then jump into the volume phase again OR

- run the intensity phase for four weeks. You'd do the exact same movements but (like you said) the 1x5's become 1x3's and the 5x5's become 3x3's. In this case week 5 is considered a deload, then nest week you ramp the weights incrementally and continue to do so each week. So there would be four loading weeks (the 1x5/5x5), a deload week (1x3/3x3 w/ last week's 1x5/5x5 weights) then an intensity phase (ramping up the 1x3/3x3 weights from week 5).



This is covered in depth in the mother thread- you will find many more descriptions there.

 

[anotherbutters]

You've got it right, 1x3/3x3 for weeks 5-8, 3 workouts per week, starting week 5 with the same weights as week 4.

There is an alternative deload, where you can do two days per week instead of three, but I'm not sure what criteria you use to decide between them, other than trying each in two runs of the 5x5 and seeing which suits you better.

The weights should go up from week to week, with the intention of setting PRs in weeks 8 and 9, not 6 and 7 (you don't want to load up again in 6 and 7).

 

[blut wump]

For the 3x per week deload/intensity you could take a look at my first 5x5 log which is referenced from the TOC of the main 5x5 thread. Don't forget that you'd drop the Wednesday squat altogether if you opt for the 3x per week option.

The 2x per week option is really just an extended deload. You drop the Friday workout and all of the exercises are done at 3x3. Each time you get all 9 reps, you increase the weight for the following week. Each time you fail you keep the weight steady. You run this for only two or three weeks until you are feeling fresh again and stop, maybe to begin again at week1 for a fresh run.

In either case in week5 the 3x3 exercises use the same weight as the 5x5 exercises in week4 and the 1x3, if using the 3x per week option, in week5, use the 1x5 weights.

Since this is your first run of the 5x5, you might be best served with the 2x per week option rather than the 3x. If you opt for the 3x option, then you need to be careful of a secondary loading in weeks 8 and 9. Give us a shout when you get there.

 

[anotherbutters]

I must have read it wrong when I did my DF 5x5. I did the 2x per week workouts, but did them for five weeks, from 5-9. I didn't realise the 2x workouts were only supposed to be done for a couple of weeks or so. Wow, what a deload I had!

Sorry if I misled you Micker.

 

[Micker]

Hmm, maybe i'll do 2x workouts for the 5th week then switch to 3x for the last 3 weeks, so I get a bit extra deload. Does that sound right??

I feel great, but my body is a bit achy, exp my shoulder area.

 

[Guinness5.0]

i had the same question on my first 5x5 run. Here's mc2's answer:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4943929&postcount=27

 

[blut wump]

You can do a hybrid like that if you wish but you'll be having to do a little bit of guessing as to where to set your 1x3 weights in week6.

The main point of the 3x per week system is to run not only a deload but a full Intensity phase where you transition to working for neural efficiency. You'd take it right out to week9, aiming to set fresh 3x3 and 1x3 records in week8 and beat them further in week9. Those 1x3 lifts can be hard work and hard on your joints but can induce a lot of extra strength.

 

[Micker]

I read your thread guinness http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399754

It sounds like you had the same questions as me. 2x deload sounds like not enough lifting, but I don't want to overdo it with 3x per week deload. I think i'm gonna do 3x and just suck it up. I will try to pace myself, self control is tough when you want big numbers. Not sure how loaded I am right now, but my body was hurtin after my last workout. Anyone think 2x is better before I go for 3x for deload/intensity??

 

[Guinness5.0]

"better" is case-by-case. Run either one and you'll make progress.

FWIW I'm very glad I ran the full four week intensity phase. Personally it was very rewarding to hit 405 for a triple on squats, as well as get 4 plates+ on deads. Hitting 3 plates on bench fora triple was a milestone as it equalled a PR I set while on gear! I thought that overall it was easier than the volume phase.

 

[blut wump]

It's the choice of whether you want to keep training for conditioning and hypertrophy and get started on a fresh run from week1 asap or want to take the grind of an Intensity phase. I look at the Intensity phase as my reward for getting through the volume.

If you go for the 3x per week then dive straight into it. You don't sound as though you're suffering from loading and there's not really a lot of difference in weeks 5 and 6 for deloading between the two. As such, stick with 3x from the start so as to get accustomed to the 1x3 lifts. If you're feeling really beat up then a week (or even two) of 2x per week can work wonders but you don't seem to be in need of that.

 

[Kane Fan]

I read what I can about 5x5's whenver I can but I'm always confused to

 

[sublime35]

I'm coming up on the same dilemma myself. I'm on week 4 and couldn't decide if I wanted to go to the 2x or 3x a week w/o. What did you decide on Micker? I think i'll go w/ the 3x. But when I get to week 6 or 7, if I decide I need 2 deload weeks, do I go down w/ the weights from week 4/5 and work them back up or do I just slowly increase from weeks 4/5? sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread.

 

[Guinness5.0]

If the 3x/week intensity phase is gettin rough you can take 3 weeks to get through weeks 8/9.

I.E. week 8 you'd train squat/bench/row mon, then dl/ohp/chins on thurs, then what would normally be your friday workout would be moved to the next monday (techinically week 9).

So you do the same number of workouts in three weeks instead of two.

But cross that bridge when you get there. Go by feel and be your own coach.

 

[Micker]

Yeah, i'm gonna do 3x a week. If I feel i'm getting a bit overworked towards the later weeks, i'll take and extra day or two off. Like guinness said, i'll go by what I feel. Gotta make sure I get enough sleep and eat right the next few weeks.

I really enjoyed the first 4 weeks, its a needed change from what I was doing. It was kinda nice to have goals and a good structured program to follow. One of the main things I wanted with this was to bring my overall core strength up. I had been neglecting my legs a lot and this forced me to do squats/deads, which I love to do, but just never got around to it. My main short term goal is to bench 275, might hit it by the end!! If not, i'll hit it next time around.

 

[blut wump]

I'm coming up on the same dilemma myself. I'm on week 4 and couldn't decide if I wanted to go to the 2x or 3x a week w/o. What did you decide on Micker? I think i'll go w/ the 3x. But when I get to week 6 or 7, if I decide I need 2 deload weeks, do I go down w/ the weights from week 4/5 and work them back up or do I just slowly increase from weeks 4/5? sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread.

Seriously, don't worry about it. The drop in volume from week4 to week5 will seem like a holiday. Week6 really isn't going to feel much harder than week5. Week7 will start to feel like a workout again and then 8 and 9 will be hard work.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Good information in this thread. One thing that caught my eye was this:

It's the choice of whether you want to keep training for conditioning and hypertrophy and get started on a fresh run from week1 asap or want to take the grind of an Intensity phase.

This is a good point, something I never thought of. A lot of people shoot for this routine in an attempt to add mass, since it's touted as doing so very well. The thing is, sets of triples aren't too conducive towards hypertrophy. While the added strength and later be applied to higher rep ranges, the four weeks of the intensity phase are more or less strength-oriented. Someone shooting for sheer mass gains should probably run the volume phase, deload with the 2x/week for 1-2 weeks, then run the volume phase again. Rinse and repeat until you feel you've added enough mass.

Of course, an alternative to those trying to get big would be to work with the 5x5 routine until strength levels are where they want them to be (or at least past the novice level) and then switch their training to HST. For HST to work well, you need a strength base for the load progression. Once you have this, you can make some nice gains in mass. After reaching your ideal size you can then turn around to train for strength or power until you retire from lifting.

Just a rant. Take it as nothing more.

 

[blut wump]

If you do start to run them back to back, I wouldn't recommend more than about three without some goodly period of lighter training to allow your body to adjust.

You can also drop the volume period down to three weeks after the first one if running them consecutively. This, obviously, makes it a little harder since you're then looking to hit fresh PRs in weeks 2 & 3. Not for the faint-hearted and definitely not recommended until you learn to train through fatigue.

Once you get to that stage, though, DFHT is waiting with open arms.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/core9.htm

 

[swordfish151]

isnt week 6 when you start increasing the weight again...im reading that week 5 and 6 are the same?? im on week 4 did my squats/deads/military/chins yesterday...friday is squat/chest/row...love this program..seeing a huge difference in weight, composition and lifts...next week i begin week 5 going to go with 3X like before (dropping squats for wednesdays split of course)...with the 1X3 and 3X3...didnt realize at this point you could do just 2X workouts...

 

[Guinness5.0]

Swordfish-
here's a link that describes the 2x deload:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497645&postcount=11

As I understand it you would use the 2x deload if you wanted to jump into another volume phase of the 5x5 rather than concentrate on strength increase, or if you think your joints won't be able to handle weeks of heavy triples, or if you're really beat up form the volume and it seems that going heavier would be a bad idea. There are many viable alternatives to the intensity phase based on your needs/goals.

So if you're not whipped by the deload week you'll probably be better off with the full-on intensity phase (3x/week, ramping weights weekly, matching PR's week 8 then bettereing them week 9). But a lot of it is individual. I'm glad I did it and I would recommend it in general barring physical limitations such as joint pain.

 

[swordfish151]

Then im rock and roll....when i layed out my (9wk) 5X5 plan on paper...mapped everything out..i was looking at week 4 going...wow...i dont know if i can hit those goals and also thinking 3X squats...there is no deff way im going to increase in poundage...but you know what..i have...incredible...all with strict form of course....very strict...im going to do the 3X for the remainder as outlined in the original madcow 5X5...2x doesnt look like a bad idea...but i know that im not that beat up that i cant do the 3X...

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

If you don't feel like you've approached the overreaching level yet, you may want to try adding a fifth loading week. It's always better to start conservatively, but if you come up to the final loading week, complete it, and still feel strong, you couldn't really go wrong by loading for another week, even if you had to keep the weights the same as in week four. Just my thoughts, though.