5 * 5 question

[halfaclue]

I don't get this...lets say you are doing flat bench and right now I can do 275 for 6 and 305 for 3.
So do I do 285 and try to get 5 sets of 5? What happens if I get to 5 on the first 2 sets and only 4 on the third? I always lift to failure on everyset, or close to it, so stopping at a number when I feel I can do more is very hard for me to comprehend. Advice? Explanation?

 

[mphowells]

I'd like to know this too.

 

[bran987]

the way I understand it the 4th and 5th sets are the only ones you should be approaching failure on. lots of people doing this routine here that can answer that though bump

 

[westsnoop]

This is the way I would do it with your numbers: Start the 5 x 5 with the flat bench as your core exercise at 210, working fast enough to make the fifth set difficult but not impossible. Add 5 lbs. per week until you hit failure (lengthening the rest times as the weights get heavier). When you hit failure, try it again the next week. If you fail, move the weight up and go to 5 x3.
I quit thinking about going to failure on every set and have made some real nice progress. It hasn't hurt me to under guess my starting weights either; I can still look in the mirror and see changes week to week. Be patient.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

westsnoop nailed it.

don't be afraid to underguess your starting weight. and if you get to the last set of the last rep and you feel you have more in you, i see no harm in doing a few more reps. my deadlift sets were 4x5, 1x10.

starting light won't hurt you at all, it'll just make sure you can stick with the routine longer. for example, i hit a max in the beginning of december of 200x3 flat bench. middle of January (after an unexpected 2 1/2 week lifting break) i started 5x5 with a flat bench weight of 135. i added 5lbs a week and i was getting all 5 reps in all 5 sets all the way up to 190lbs.

the week i tried 195, my sets went 1x5, 1x4, 2x3, 0 - stayed at this weight the next week and ended up with almost identical sets/reps. HOWEVER, i hit my first set for 5 reps at a weight 5lbs below my previous max.

the next week - 200lbs 5x3 and hit every set, every rep. this was my previous MAX and only for 1 set, and just barely at that!

the following week i went for a bench PR and hit 235x3. so 35lb increase on my bench max in just under 4 months.

if i were you, i would start 5x5 no higher than 225. if you were to move along without stalling, in 11 weeks you'd hit 275 for 5x5 instead of 1 set of 6. i'm sure at that point, your 3 rep max could be up to 320-325. the program seemed like it was moving along real slowly, and it wasn't until the last few weeks i was running it that i realized i was making strength progress. i should be back on this routine next week....week and a half off for finals and i've got one hell of a cold too. timing for the cold couldn't of been better (cause i planned on taking this break) or worse (cause it's making studying hell).

good luck with it if you decide to try it out.

 

[halfaclue]

So it is really more about the 5th set? If I get 5 reps the first thre and then 4 on set 4 and 3 on set 5 then I would stick with that weight until I can get the 5 sets of 5 correct?

 

[Buddy_Christ]

when you get stuck at a weight, you repeat that weight the following week. if you've been progressing for a few weeks, chances are you'll hit that weight the following week (my BB curl stalled 3x, but the following week i'd hit all sets/reps). if, however, you don't get all 5x5 the second week at the same weight, then the following week, bump the weight up and do 5x3. do this for about 4 weeks, increasing the weight every week. after about 4 weeks, drop back to the weight you were stuck on with 5x5, and start 5x5 with that weight all over again until you get stuck again.

as i understand it, the principle behind this program is that you're constantly varying the weight, which is what your muscles need in order to grow. even if you go to 5x3 for 4 weeks, then drop 20lbs and start 5x5 all over again, you're still creating a positive change. even though the weight is lighter, you're now doing more reps. it is because of this constant variation of weights that you want to start the routine with a light enough weight for each exercise. focus on form and not going to failure. once you've been progressing on this routine for a while, you'll get to the last rep of the last set and just barely be able to finish off, only to come back in the next week, bump the weight up, and repeat. i do not want to hit failure on any set, because that means i can't go heavier the next week. being able to continiously go heavier week after week is a real boost.

 

[halfaclue]

Sweet..I think I actually get it now!

 

[leatherface]

Its kind of like CAT training (compensatory accelerative training). You need not to go to failure every set as long as you are pushing as fast as you can every set, using as much force as you possibly can. If you are pushing as hard as you can, you wil make gains. Don't just push the weight up, explode it up. And if I were you, I would start with about 235 for 5x5.

I understand what you are saying though, long ago I used to think the same way. If I can get more reps, but I stop prematurely, how the hell am I optimizing my gains? Well I tried to explain it to you, you are compensating your weights for force...if you want you can do a search on the CAT training thing, because from experience, that is what I would equate this routine with.

 

[halfaclue]

Cool, I check that out.