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4AD 2nd Week

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riskybizz007

New member
Hey guys this is my 2nd week on 4AD decided to let you guys know what's the dilly. I've been taking 900mg/day in 3 divided doses 7am, 11am, and 2pm. I have not gained 1 single pound so far, but strength has increased, and aggressiveness and endurance is up too at the gym (but this can be psychological who knows). Here's some examples of today and yesturday.

Before curling w/ 105pounds, Yesturday curled 145
Before French for Triceps was 105, today was 145
Smith for Chest before was 320, today hit 500
Leg press before was 540, yesterday hit 810.
Bench was 275, hit 315 today.

In regards to reps, no reps were less than 6/set in either case of before or after. All reps are b/w 6-10. Strength changes were pretty good, sometimes feel better than others but i'm finally seeing good changes w/ strength. Too bad i haven't gained not even 1 pound. Well i'll keep you guys updated on any other changes.
peace:p
 
riskybizz007 said:
Hey guys this is my 2nd week on 4AD decided to let you guys know what's the dilly. I've been taking 900mg/day in 3 divided doses 7am, 11am, and 2pm. I have not gained 1 single pound so far,
Click to expand...


Orals, with the exception of 1-AD, suck. So, this is not surprising. Not to mention that you would only have elevated androgens for 1/2 of the day with this dosing scheme.

Get a topical and use it 2X per day.

Your strength gains are almost ridulous, though -- I would not be complaining :)

ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
 
Orals, or snorting powder, due to the blood spike are good for their increased CNS value(the more androgenic the better)- the most likely reason for the strength "gains"
 
Your "Smith for Chest" went up by 56% after a week on 1-AD?!?!? I can't imagine how anything, legal or otherwise, could increase strength THAT quickly. Is it possible you are pushing yourself harder since you are taking a supplement which you have high expectations for? Also what kind of sides are you noting with 1-AD? (I had a bad experiece with 1-AD sides, so now I am trying topical 4-AD.)

In any event, it sounds like 1-AD is treating you well. Best of luck!

Tony
 
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I'm not taking 1AD, it's 4AD. I've always worked out intensely, and i go to the gym in the mornings so when i go in there i'm sure levels of androgens are pretty high, sometimes i take a little more right before a workout. I've had 2 very good days yesturday and today, and strength from before was measured from about 3 weeks ago, about a week before i started 4AD. What i hate more than anything is there is no increase in muscle size or weight. I started and am now the same weight. I'll keep you guys informed.
 
Opps - my bad! (I guess I have been reading too many 1-AD posts lately.) Yes let us know how it goes, as I just started taking 4-AD five days ago.

Tony

:)
 
Only thing i can add is that the first week the pumps hurt and i couldn't pick up the damn weight, i thought there would be some muscle hypertrophy w/ all the pumps i was getting. No such luck. I know what you mean about the 1AD tony... it's everywhere, 4AD is forgotten, so it was cheap as hell so i got it.
 
I think topical is the only way to go with 4-AD for a cycle. However, I do use 400mg of the oral right before a workout for the CNS effect and to combat the post workout test crash. Plus, it's out of the sytem so quickly it doesn't suppress your natural test.
 
riskybizz007 said:

Before curling w/ 105pounds, Yesturday curled 145
Before French for Triceps was 105, today was 145
Smith for Chest before was 320, today hit 500
Leg press before was 540, yesterday hit 810.
Bench was 275, hit 315 today.
Click to expand...

You must be superhuman
 
Well only thing i can attest to the strength increase other than the 4diol (if that's actually working) is that on the last 2 days i worked out w/ my brother. And we both go balls to the walls and are competing on most lifts. This helped out a bit, but still, i think it was the 4diol. The last 2 times at the gym i felt like i could pick up anything and didn't want to leave. Felt strong, and very aggressive. So i'll attribute a big chunk to the supplement. haven't had time to work out since so no updates.
 
JavaGuru said:
I think topical is the only way to go with 4-AD for a cycle. However, I do use 400mg of the oral right before a workout for the CNS effect and to combat the post workout test crash. Plus, it's out of the sytem so quickly it doesn't suppress your natural test.
Click to expand...

andro does work but its hard to get into blood
 
I've been taking big doses of it for it to have any effect at all. As far as strength increases i can't comment b/c i've changed my workout this week. I'm doing exercises very very slow up and down. Like 5 sec. up and 5sec. down. Depends on exercise, some are longer some shorter. Still going heavy just a different approach. I like to keep changing things, better progress that way too IMO.
 
Before curling w/ 105pounds, Yesturday curled 145
Before French for Triceps was 105, today was 145
Smith for Chest before was 320, today hit 500
Leg press before was 540, yesterday hit 810.
Bench was 275, hit 315 today.
Click to expand...

riskybizz007 -

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm having a really hard time buying this. You've increase your poundages on the Smith machine and the leg press by nearly 50% in 2 weeks??? I've never heard of anything remotely approaching these sorts of gains with regards to anyone but a rank beginner. The increase in bench is incredible alone, but seems possible. And with all these strength gains, you've had NO, I repeat NO increase in bodyweight. Can you understand my skepticism?
 
I hear what you're saying bro. I know that those 2 days were exceptionally good days. On good days one can always lift more, at least w/ me i can. I did notice one thing in those 2 days, I increased doseage a lot in a short amount of time right before the gym. It gave me an aggressiveness i've never felt before, and like i stated earlier i was working balls to the walls and didn't want to go home. I just felt incredibly strong. I also had my bro working out w/ me and me and him are always competing, so that added more fuel to the fire. I'd say the andro did help a bit, but there were other factors to take into consideration as well. Before those 2 days i had been training by myself and was in a bit of plateu. No matter what i always lift more when i work out w/ my bro, b/c we are very competitve and push eachother a lot. The andro helped out a great deal w/ aggressiveness and some strength, and besides that i was having 2 great friggin days. I haven't tried working out like that since then, maybe next week, if i do i'll report my results. I know i'm still stronger b/c although i'm doing weights very slowly i'm doing heavy weights w/ it. I think the andro helps out w/ strength and recovery, and sometimes w/ aggressiveness.
 
That makes a bit more sense. I've still got to believe that you reduced your ROM, speeded up your cadence, something, and you didn't realize 'cause you were so psyched. That combined with less than intense workouts preceding it make the gains seem a little more possible. If working out with your brother produces this sort of increase in poundages, I've got some advice: do every workout with your brother. :D
 
bro when i was working out w/ the guy, all my weights went up, i had my biggest gains ever in weight, strength, and muscle increase. It was about 8 weeks in summer, we gave new definition to "balls to the wall" training. We would walk out of there barely able to make it to the car. 3-4/week maximum, and we grew, had pretty good gains, and was all natural. Hopefully i can do it agian this christmas break for at least a few weeks.
 
I'm doing mostly 4AD in my cycle (~1000mg oral and 400mg topical/ED at peak dosage) and it is helping me a lot. I know I am packing on muscle and getting on stronger. Its not a lot, but the difference is noticeable and gains are real.

I'm sure gear is better (duh) and not everyone responds to prohormones positively, but IMO if you do your research and create a good cycle (obviously combined with solid training), you can get good gains from PHs. Their are plenty of people on this board who'd agree.

I'm sure some homo will flame me "Get on the gear and don't look back...blah blah blah" Whatever I'm happy with my results. PHs are working for me. No offense to my juiced up bros-I mean we're all entitled to our opinions. I feel like too many guys post negative non-constructive BS posts on the supp board and snobbishly look down on PH users. It's lesson numero uno in athletic training 101; everybody will respond differently to different shit.

I'M TAKIN AST 4AD AND PROUD OF IT!!! hehehehe

FHG
(taking a little too much 4AD by the looks of the post):D
 
notpuff said:
why dont u inject the 4ad
Click to expand...



4-AD is not heroin. It is not water soluble so you just can't dissolve it in water and "shoot it up"

You can't really dissolve it in oil in any appreciable quantity either because it is not soluble enough

You can't make an aqueous suspension because that technology is beyond everyone short of an experienced pharmaceutical chemist with a proper laboratory

You CAN dissolve it to some extent in propylene glycol (or similar solvent(s)), but then the shot would probably hurt very badly and leave an abcess. You may get a fever and flu like symptoms too

These are the reasons why nobody injects 4-AD
 
The guy who makes the fina kits has a universal kit which will turn any powder into a injectable he says even prohormones
 
notpuff said:
The guy who makes the fina kits has a universal kit which will turn any powder into a injectable he says even prohormones
Click to expand...


I am sure he couldn't give a shit if you ended up with a painful bump and a fever, as long as you bought his kit. Why don't you try it to prove me wrong?
 
injectable ph

I bought the universal kit from "A" and used it for 19-nordiol mixed with 4 andro diol. I used a 75% / 25% ratio to see how it would work. I've had great results. I would recommend using the sterile filter. I did not use the sterile filter and ended up with a mild abcess. I used the filter on the final product (using a new sterile vial) and have not had any problems - could be that maybe the final product was not micronized thus causing muscle irritation (don't know)?. No fever no flu like symptoms. The only symptoms I've had is slight insomnia and occasional sore/ache in the nuts. Right now I'm doing around 75mg ED. Great results and strength. I've gone up in weight around 10 pounds and my waist is getting smaller. I've heard that 19-nordiol helps in lean mass and fat lose - don't know but it works for me. Makes me want to eat more as well - can't complain about that. No hairloss (in fact I'm seeing more hair grow), slight acne - besides that it's great. Plan to do another cycle after this one. (I'm sure someone will flame me - but hey it works for me).
 
Re: injectable ph

Pityocamptes said:
I bought the universal kit from "A" and used it for 19-nordiol mixed with 4 andro diol. I used a 75% / 25% ratio to see how it would work. I've had great results. I would recommend using the sterile filter. I did not use the sterile filter and ended up with a mild abcess. I used the filter on the final product (using a new sterile vial) and have not had any problems - could be that maybe the final product was not micronized thus causing muscle irritation (don't know)?. No fever no flu like symptoms. The only symptoms I've had is slight insomnia and occasional sore/ache in the nuts. Right now I'm doing around 75mg ED. Great results and strength. I've gone up in weight around 10 pounds and my waist is getting smaller. I've heard that 19-nordiol helps in lean mass and fat lose - don't know but it works for me. Makes me want to eat more as well - can't complain about that. No hairloss (in fact I'm seeing more hair grow), slight acne - besides that it's great. Plan to do another cycle after this one. (I'm sure someone will flame me - but hey it works for me).
Click to expand...



pretty ballsy
 
I wouldn't take winny b/c of the ED or EOD schedule, and still would have better results w/out the risk of abcesses. I don't know how you can do it ED.
 
Its not that bad. I've only had the one experience with an abcess - I can only blame myself for that one (can't follow directions). Since the final product was sterile filtered I haven't had any problems. I figure since needles are cheap at my local walmart (and legal) and I had a bulk container of 19nordiol and 4ad why not get the best out of it. I tried oral (had to take huge amounts to notice anything - gets expensive) and topical (not bad but people started wondering what that weird smell was - DMSO - my wife didn't even want me sleeping in the same room!) and finally said what the heck, I'll do injectable. So far that has been the best alternative. The real deal would probably be better and I wouldn't look like a pin cushion but since juice has not been recognized as being kosher (at least from the stand point of the "man") and my employer (who I won't say - don't ask) requires random drug testing and L.D. testing - I'll keep the "man" happy. Lastly and ultimately it passes approval by the boss - my wife :) - other alternatives have already been counted out.
 
Pityocamptes said:
Its not that bad. I've only had the one experience with an abcess - I can only blame myself for that one (can't follow directions). Since the final product was sterile filtered I haven't had any problems. I figure since needles are cheap at my local walmart (and legal) and I had a bulk container of 19nordiol and 4ad why not get the best out of it. I tried oral (had to take huge amounts to notice anything - gets expensive) and topical (not bad but people started wondering what that weird smell was - DMSO - my wife didn't even want me sleeping in the same room!) and finally said what the heck, I'll do injectable. So far that has been the best alternative. The real deal would probably be better and I wouldn't look like a pin cushion but since juice has not been recognized as being kosher (at least from the stand point of the "man") and my employer (who I won't say - don't ask) requires random drug testing and L.D. testing - I'll keep the "man" happy. Lastly and ultimately it passes approval by the boss - my wife :) - other alternatives have already been counted out.
Click to expand...


Hate to break the news to you but your injections of 4-AD and nordiol will cause you to test positive for testosteorne and nandrolone
 
pa1ad - question's

Assuming everything goes well (so far it has been) for this cycle. Do you see any benefits to taking PH injectables? Is there a huge difference between taking PH's orally and injections? I have also noticed that recovery time seems very fast. Since taking PH by injection I have noticed that I can work a muscle to failure and yet feel no pain the next day or any day for that matter. Would this be from the 19-nordiol converting to nandrolone? Also by taking it by injection does this mean that the PH stays in the body longer and the body converts it at need or is the whole solution converted to its respective properties within a short period? Thanks for your help.
 
pa1ad - one more question...

Do you think those proportions are ok.? 75% 19nordiol and 25% 4ad. Since you know more of the PH stuff then most what kind of recommendations could you give for a future cycle. Should I change to something else like 1ad or go straight 19nordiol or use different proportions, etc. etc. for maximum growth and recovery? As mentioned above I'm taking 75mg ED. Is there anyway of determining what the equivalent would be orally? Also do you think I should increase or decrease this dosage for maximum results. Thanks again.
 
Last edited:
Pin size...

I was using 25g x 1 but it took forever to get anything out of the vial - sometimes it would get plugged so I'd have to start over. 25g x1 ws great - never felt them go in. Now I have a large supply of 23g x 1 1/2 and they fill up nicely. They are a little bigger and so they are a little more uncomfortable but I'm starting to get used to them.
 
Pityocamptes said:
I figuered it would. I guess I could always blame that on PH's :).
Click to expand...



Only problem is that 4-AD and nor4-AD are also on the banned list. That loophole was closed about 3 years ago
 
Re: pa1ad - question's

Pityocamptes said:
Assuming everything goes well (so far it has been) for this cycle. Do you see any benefits to taking PH injectables? Is there a huge difference between taking PH's orally and injections? I have also noticed that recovery time seems very fast. Since taking PH by injection I have noticed that I can work a muscle to failure and yet feel no pain the next day or any day for that matter. Would this be from the 19-nordiol converting to nandrolone? Also by taking it by injection does this mean that the PH stays in the body longer and the body converts it at need or is the whole solution converted to its respective properties within a short period? Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...


Injections increase the bioavailabilty several times. The activity is either from conversion or from both conversion and direct activity of the diol - no one really knows. The length of time the prohormone stays in the body depends upon the vehicle (solvent) that the prohormone is delivered in
 
pa1ad...

I think you're due for a little "arse kissing". I think I speak for everyone when I say that I really appreciate you hanging around the boards to clear things up and answer questions that others would be unable to answer. Your contributions are truly appreciated - Just trying to keep you around.

By the way, I'm lovin' the 1-AD. Several of my friends have invested in enough 1-AD for 6wk cycles, based on what they have seen me achieve. They thought I was a little crazy with the "spraying prohormones on my body" fiasco, but my results from the 1-AD are undeniable.
 
Hell Yeah...Thanks pa1ad, both you and Par Deus are very appreciated by me.

Pityocamptes, why don't you get some 18g needles to draw, and then shoot with the 25g. If you need, you could heat the solution, and injections would be cake. Shit, you can even get Primo through a 25. This way, you are not limited to ass shots, and can hit up other parts (bi's tri's delts).

Are you using oil or water to suspend. I'm assuming you used water.

pa1ad, how long do you think the half life of 4-AD suspended in water versus oil varies?

Thanks
 
growin' said:
Hell Yeah...Thanks pa1ad, both you and Par Deus are very appreciated by me.

Pityocamptes, why don't you get some 18g needles to draw, and then shoot with the 25g. If you need, you could heat the solution, and injections would be cake. Shit, you can even get Primo through a 25. This way, you are not limited to ass shots, and can hit up other parts (bi's tri's delts).

Are you using oil or water to suspend. I'm assuming you used water.

pa1ad, how long do you think the half life of 4-AD suspended in water versus oil varies?

Thanks
Click to expand...


4-AD has very little solubility in straight oil so its not really a practical question. And when you add cosolvents and the like to solubilize the stuff in the oil then you change the equation altogether.

Activity time in the body of an aqueous suspension would depend upon the particle size of the steroid. I do know that for a run of the mill test suspension your test levels will be significantly elevated for around 3 days (with the largest levels seen on the first day)

I have no idea what is in this universal kit so i cannot even venture to guess what happens in the body after injecting something formulated with it
 
The kits for 4-AD are suspension kits that come with vials, sterile water, a sterile filter, and magic solution(benzyl alcohol).
 
growin' said:
The kits for 4-AD are suspension kits that come with vials, sterile water, a sterile filter, and magic solution(benzyl alcohol).
Click to expand...


I am guessing that the directions are to dissolve prohormone in the BA, filter, and then add water to the solution, which will then precipitate out the steroid and give a very crude pseudo aqueous suspension.

This sounds like a pretty disgusting concoction to inject
 
I am guessing that the directions are to dissolve prohormone in the BA, filter, and then add water to the solution, which will then precipitate out the steroid and give a very crude pseudo aqueous suspension.

Yup, at least that's the technique for fina and winny. I don't know the purity of the available diol powders, but with F and A, I have had no problems with sterility issues.
 
The kit came with a sterile vial (contained a liquid) and one other vial that contained a liquid. The directions had you mix 5 grams of PH into one vial. Stop the vial and use a needle to expel pressure since you had to heat it to around 270 F for ten minutes. Then you sterile filter that product into the sterile vial that was around half filled with liquid. Not sure what is in the vials but I have also hear that some sort of pain killer is used to help in reducing injection pain (I've heard this is also used for the F kits). As a side note: pa1ad/growin' - You mentioned that it sounded like a disgusting concoction to inject, any reason why? Would a better alternative exist? Also, if I've been on this cycle for 4 weeks and continue for another 2 weeks for 6 weeks total do I have to give my body a rest since this is not technically juice or can I immediately start on another cycle. If rest time is required about how long should I stay off? Also will strength and size be lost during that time and if so I assume it would bounce back when the next cycle started, right? Thanks.
 
Pityocamptes, I don't think its crude. Those kits(Fina) have worked well for me and my friends. 4-AD over time will shut you down. Might as well use the steroid principle of time on = time off. Wail 6 weeks and hit it again.
 
First off your getting good karma from me for that post,
Second how do you place a order with the "kit man"
Third how did you evenly measure out 5 grams?
this is none of my buisness (just curious) You mentioned your wife in a previous post how does she liek your new size :) ?
 
Go to your local head shop, and you'll find pretty accurate scales for about $40 give or take $10. They are not lab accurate, but their good enough for petty coke and weed dealers.
 
I re-load ammo. So I have a scale that is in grains. I just cleaned my scale pan real well and measure out the equivalent (had to do some converting between grains and grams). Scale that growin' mentioned would probably be just as good. My wife at first thought I was turning into a lard @$$ but now she realizes that I have gotton more muscular. She seems happy also with the fact that my gut has gotton smaller. When I come off for 6 weeks I'm going to try and cut the fat so hopefully I'll look a little better.
 
Pityocamptes, I'd wait a few weeks to let your body adjust to your gains. Worst mistake I made was trying to cut after a steroid (mass) cycle. Wait about 3-4 weeks, then slowly start cutting, while reducing training volume a bit, and focusing on heavy compound exercises-squats, deads, bench, chins, push press. That's what I'd do anyways.
 
Another way to measure dose is to add 5 grams PH to 100ml water/alcohol in a vial and mix up. You will have 100ml with 50mg/ml concentration. Use a syringe with an 18g needle to draw 1cc and you get 50mg. I did this with Winny and it works great.
 
Growin' - thanks for the cutting suggestion. I went to the diet borad but no one gave me a concrete answer to that question. I don't want to lose my gains so I'll try your suggestion. Thanks again!
 
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