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$4.29 a gallon in brooklyn already
- Thread starter fistfullofsteel
- Start date
Dude, I don't feel sorry for any one in the city. Anyone living (w/ the exception of those that have medical conditions, children and old people) in Brooklyn, certain parts of Queens & the Bronx, and Manhattan that chooses to drive in lieu of taking the subway deserves to pay $5.00 a gallon or more.
If Caroline Kennedy can ride the subway, so can you.
If Caroline Kennedy can ride the subway, so can you.
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
nycgirl said:
Are you in the city or NJ?
I'm Batman! I'm everywhere.
JarheadChiro
New member
Sweet baby Jesus in a high chair!
mustang_00
Well-known member
damn, and here i am being pissed that mid grade is 2.79
Delinquent
Well-known member
tinytank said:
exactly! Americans have been spoiled for far too long on the price of oil. Everyone else in the world pays close to twice if not three times as we do (with the exception of the oil countries)
G
Gaylords_Son
Guest
Delinquent said:
because they are getting taxed to death by welfar gov'ts
nycgirl said:
I agree with you if you're talking about everyday driving.
However, if I lived there again, I'd like to have a car stashed away somewhere for getting away on weekends. Hopefully I could get far enough away to fill up on some cheaper fuel while I'm at it...
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
tinytank said:
guess what???? it's also 12 cents a gallon in Venezuela. therefore we were over paying at $1.00 a gallon.
i can go both ways on that. i could fucking care less what the europeans are paying. it doesn't make me feel any better.
B
BalboaII
Guest
$2.79/gallon here in MA
tinytank
New member
fistfullofsteel said:guess what???? it's also 12 cents a gallon in Venezuela. therefore we were over paying at $1.00 a gallon.
it should, think of poor TT, trying to save for a car, and still paying all that. i hope you cant get to sleep tonight !
Delinquent said:
It's taxes overseas, not price of oil, that accounts for the difference.
Furthermore, most of the European countries where this occurs are tiny, as in smaller than most US states. Therefore, they are better suited to mass transit, such as trains, throughout the country.
Finally, the price of everything goes up when fuel costs go up. I can afford the $11.00 loaf of bread. Can you?
dullboy
New member
Razorguns said:
dullboy is starting to feel the same way, but it pains him to give 75 dollars a barrell for crude oil to tinpot dictators.
dullboy proposes that we empty the lower half of state of Mississippi (pay everyone to leave - eminent domain) and use the land to produce sugar cane which would solve all of our energy needs.
even the liberals will jump on this idea because ethanol burns cleanly.
dullboy said:
Ethanol is a net energy loser; it costs more to produce than it yields. Liberals may love it, but scientists don't.
dullboy
New member
MattTheSkywalker said:
tell that to brazil.
they're ready to kick our ag ass.
ethanol made from sugar cane is highly effective and practical.
but maybe you know more than the christian science monitor. after all, they're just dumb christians.
Brazil fights oil prices with alcohol
Sales of 'Flex' cars that run on alcohol or gasoline surpassed August sales of gasoline-only vehicles.
By Andrew Downie | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
RIO DE JANEIRO – Brazilians aren't waiting for high-priced hybrid cars.
Drivers are fighting rising gasoline prices by buying "flex" or "flexible fuel" cars that slurp more alcohol.
Tuesday, 04/25/06
Alcohol made from sugar cane is becoming the fuel of choice in Brazil, and other countries - so much so that global sugar prices hit a seven-year high this week.
Regular car engines will run fine on a 10 percent blend of alcohol and gasoline. But by using computer sensors that adjust to whatever mix is in the tank, flex car engines run on either ethanol, gasoline, or any combination of the two. And they have been roaring out of dealerships here since Volkswagen sold the first TotalFlex Golf in March 2003.
Today, flex cars are outselling traditional gasoline models. In August, 62 percent of new cars sold were flex, according to industry numbers. "Demand has been unbelievable," says Barry Engle, the new president of Ford Brasil. "I am hard-pressed to think of any other technology that has been such a success so quickly."
As many countries reexamine their dependence on petroleum fields for fuel, Brazil offers a model for how to make the switch to cane, beet, wheat, or corn fields. The successful transition here comes down to many factors, but price is the primary one, experts say.
Unlike hybrids sold in the US, for example, flex cars sold in Brazil don't cost any more than traditional models. In fact, some models are only available with flex engines now. Ethanol engines use 25 percent more ethanol per mile than gasoline. But ethanol (the alcohol produced by fermenting sugar) usually sells at somewhere between a third to half of the price of gas. Even people who were reluctant to take the plunge and buy a flex say they have been won over by the savings.
"It's been a revelation because of the economy," says Madalena Lira, a university lecturer who says that she and her husband had reluctantly purchased a flex car because it was the only available version of the Fiat Palio Weekend they wanted. "I love this car in spite of it being a flex, not because it is a flex. The savings have been great. I'd certainly buy another one."
In addition to the savings, environmentally conscious drivers appreciate having a car that runs on a cleaner fuel, and some might even buy a flex car because they know it is good for the country's auto and sugar manufacturers. But today, two-and-a-half years into the flex experiment, another unforeseen advantage is emerging.
"There is something curious that we are just starting to see," says Alfred Szwarc, an ethanol consultant with Sao Paulo's sugar cane association. "Gasoline powered cars lose more of their [resale] value than flex cars. People know that oil is finite and that it is going to get more and more expensive. They think that a gasoline-powered car is going to be more difficult to sell. They see flex cars as the car of the future."
Ethanol-powered cars are not new in Brazil. In a bid to cut the country's reliance on foreign oil imports and help their own sugar producers, Brazil's military government pushed alcohol-powered cars in the early 1980s. Gas stations across the country added ethanol pumps to the existing gasoline and diesel ones. Between 1983 and 1988 more than 88 percent of cars sold annually were running on a blend of ethanol and gasoline.
This didn't last for long, though. The subsidies were withdrawn at the end of the decade, and cane farmers quickly realized they could get more from selling sugar than turning it into ethanol. When alcohol fuel shortages ensued it looked like the end of the road for ethanol engines as sales of the experimental cars plummeted.
That experience may have been a bitter one but it gave Brazilians a taste for alternative fuels that lingered. Although most people abandoned ethanol cars, many taxi drivers kept them because it was so much cheaper than a gas-only car. Then the country's Congress passed a law forcing oil companies to add small quantities of ethanol to their gasoline. That prompted car companies to experiment with an engine that would run on both fuels, and when they did, the flex car sales took off.
"Why did this take off here?" asks Mr. Engle. "Because this isn't brand-new. Car buyers concerned about high gas prices or potential ethanol shortages no longer have to make a choice between the two. It used to be an either-or but now there's both and that gives consumers peace of mind and explains why Brazilians have embraced it."
The next task is convincing other nations to adopt the technology, industry experts said. With oil prices at a record high, there is a clear advantage to diluting gasoline or even substituting it, with sugar-based ethanol or one of the biofuel alternatives such as beets or corn.
For most countries, the problem is the lack of ethanol production and a distribution system. Although many countries require oil companies to dilute their gasoline with ethanol (in Brazil, gas sold at the pumps is 25 percent ethanol; and some of the gas sold in the US, China, Australia and Canada is 10-15 percent ethanol), few actually make ethanol or manufacture flex vehicles, and even fewer have a network of gas stations with ethanol pumps.
In the US - with about 4 million flex cars - there are 14 states without even one ethanol pump, says Robert White, project director for the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition.
With years of experience at every stage of the process, Brazil is in the pole position to help other nations' farmers grow crops, scientists refine it into fuel, or engineers produce the technology to make flex cars, says Rogelio Golfarb, president of Brazil's car makers association. "There is an enormous demand from abroad to know more," Mr. Golfarb says "This is an advantage and an opportunity for Brazil."
The report that got everyone excited about ethanol was a DOE study in 2004. The USDA also did one which called ethanol a winner. Ethanol is beloved because the energy required to produce it is largely solar, or, free. However, overzealous proponents of it then conduct studies which assume that all of the energy costs of producing ethanol can be discounted.
This leads to conclusions like what you posted. However, the studies that proponents rely on neglect to consider a few things, like the cost of maintaining farm and agricultural equipment.
If you want to read about ethanol some more, try this:
http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/07/18/42db5c4dcd0fe
It rightly makes the point that ethanol is doomed without government subsidies.
Here is another one, from the liberal Slate, which points out that corn subsidies have totaled $37BN in the last 10 years.
http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/
sit.
roll over.
good boy.
This leads to conclusions like what you posted. However, the studies that proponents rely on neglect to consider a few things, like the cost of maintaining farm and agricultural equipment.
If you want to read about ethanol some more, try this:
http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/07/18/42db5c4dcd0fe
It rightly makes the point that ethanol is doomed without government subsidies.
Here is another one, from the liberal Slate, which points out that corn subsidies have totaled $37BN in the last 10 years.
http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/
sit.
roll over.
good boy.
coldblue1955
New member
wow that's just too much money!fistfullofsteel said:
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
WODIN said:
how am i supposed to know? i don't own the site. but there was another site that reported a price of $3.99 a gallon if that make you feel better.
dullboy
New member
it's substantially cheaper to covert sugar cane into fuel alcohol than corn into fuel alcohol.
that's why it's working in Brazil, and why Brazil is becoming energy self sufficient and non dependent on foreign sources of energy.
Brazil has always been the perpetual nation of the future, but it's finally really happening.
their agriculture infastructure and efficiencies are beginning to rival ours.
from USA Today, 3/26/06:
A three-decade-long alternative energy campaign has outfitted Brazilian filling stations with fuel pumps that offer pure ethanol, a blend of gasoline and 20% ethanol called gasohol, or even natural gas. This year, Brazil will achieve energy independence — a goal the United States has been chasing without success since the energy crises of the 1970s.
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that's why it's working in Brazil, and why Brazil is becoming energy self sufficient and non dependent on foreign sources of energy.
Brazil has always been the perpetual nation of the future, but it's finally really happening.
their agriculture infastructure and efficiencies are beginning to rival ours.
from USA Today, 3/26/06:
A three-decade-long alternative energy campaign has outfitted Brazilian filling stations with fuel pumps that offer pure ethanol, a blend of gasoline and 20% ethanol called gasohol, or even natural gas. This year, Brazil will achieve energy independence — a goal the United States has been chasing without success since the energy crises of the 1970s.
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The US needs more oil refineries built and gas wouldnt even be 1/2 that.. Why not start tapping in our own supplies, and f*ck iraq?
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
ItalianMuscle27 said:
because usa likes to reserve its oil for the war machines, just in case a big time war breaks out and we can't get oil from other countries.
dullboy said:
I'm not disagreeing with you on the last sentence. It's even simpler than ethanol. All the energy in the solar system comes from one source.
If the $37BN we've given to corn growers to make energy-losing ethanol were redirected to reasearch into more efficiently harnessing solar energy, this would be a non issue.
I like tacos.
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
MattTheSkywalker said:
what kind of tacos you like? be specific. where can you get the best tacos?
dullboy said:
yep...at this point, doing ANYTHING in more than a token fashio would be a success.
dullboy said:
I completely agree... I am looking into a hybrid for my next vehicle.. I still havent seen to many of those ethanol85 stations.. Anyone know what states they are popping up in?
