380 tons of missing explosives!?!?!?

[yomama]

Remember the story about "2 billion dollars" driving around in 18wheelers around Iraq somewhere. Turned out we found the money, it was hidden in the building. This is probably some bullshit from BUSH to scare the crap out of people just like he's been doing since 911.

 

[bluepeter]

There is no way you can conclude that the explosives were still there..... So whatever your trying to say is stupid. The U.N. reported the weapons in january of 2003, that is the last time anyone laid eyes on them. After the war in May there was nothing there. So anyone saying Bush should have been protecting them is stupid because there was nothing to protect.
Just how were we supposed to stop them from being moved? Please tell me, I would be happy to listen.

I'm not saying that the US should have stopped them from being moved ASSUMING that they were in fact moved before invasion. I'm saying the site in question should have been one that was monitored and they should have known about it. Moving 400 tons of explosives would take quite the convoy and should have been easy to spot don't you think?

I also repeat, I have yet to see conclusive evidence saying they weren't there when the US visited this site in April.

 

[maxpain]

"Just how were we supposed to stop them from being moved?"

thats easy, we should have done what john kerry has been saying all along and rushed into iraq instead of waiting. bush wasted valueable time and let explosives fall into the hands of terrorists.

BULLSHIT !! That cocksucker would want to wait ANOTHER TWELVE YEARS and then get UN permission. This has got to be one of the stupidest fuckin responses I have EVER heard. What fuckin rock and/or hole did this person come out from????

 

[bluepeter]

Which is it? First it's Bush's fault, now you don't care. Maybe he don't care because he know has been proven to be a idiot. Ah, the liberals continuing to show the intelligence level of sKerry supporters. Boy did the NY Times fuck up this time. 60 mintues was to break the story sunday night three days before the election. Since the times wanted to be the first. It had time to be proven as a anti-bush attack by the liberal media instead of the truth. Which pisses off 60 mintues they wanted to break it sunday so it would maybe influence the election. GODDAMN liberal bias media.

It's this administrations fault no matter how you spin it (how much at fault lies with when the weapons were moved). My comment that you picked up on was directed toward the inference that all I'm trying to do is bash Bush. My response was simply that I don't give a shit who is in the Oval Office, a mistake of that magnitude is inexcusable.

 

[maxpain]

Remember the story about "2 billion dollars" driving around in 18wheelers around Iraq somewhere. Turned out we found the money, it was hidden in the building. This is probably some bullshit from BUSH to scare the crap out of people just like he's been doing since 911.

You should be scared. They STILL want to KILL your ass !!!! In case you forgot. The islamic terrorist bombed our interest MANY times during the last democrats presidency. If Kerry is elected you better be even more scared. Don't think they will just QUIT if Kerry is elected. AHH, the liberals they grow dumber by the minute.

 

[maxpain]

It's this administrations fault no matter how you spin it (how much at fault lies with when the weapons were moved). My comment that you picked up on was directed toward the inference that all I'm trying to do is bash Bush. My response was simply that I don't give a shit who is in the Oval Office, a mistake of that magnitude is inexcusable.

You liberals think EVERYTHING on this planet that is wrong is Bush's fault. Where the fuck was Clinton for 8 YEARS ???? You guessed it FUCKIN the interns letting the enemy strengthen!!!

 

[metzen]

I'm not saying that the US should have stopped them from being moved ASSUMING that they were in fact moved before invasion. I'm saying the site in question should have been one that was monitored and they should have known about it. Moving 400 tons of explosives would take quite the convoy and should have been easy to spot don't you think?

I also repeat, I have yet to see conclusive evidence saying they weren't there when the US visited this site in April.

They did know about. Go back and read my post. The U.N. Inspectors are the ones who reported it, so, therefore, bush did know about. And he also knew that they were gone by the time our troops got there. ok?

And I've got a very informative article on the explosives that were stolen, please read it all then come back and tell me how much danger we were in. That stuff is about as usefull as a big rock. After reading the article combined it with the dates and tell me what is reasonably conclusive.



"A key point is that this is not dense stuff, where you can get a lot of weight into a small vehicle. If this was really in its raw form, it is white powder, like cornstarch or a light powdered sugar (NOT granulated sugar). Blow on it and it flies in the breeze- the stories I've seen haven't said much about what form it was in, but you would want it to be relatively raw so you could form it into main charges for artillery, etc. They don't pour granules into shells, it is mixed with binders and melted sonit will take a shape. You can't be a nice terrorist, happen by, stick some in your pocket, and run away while the US Army isn't looking- it isn't "plastic" (like, say, comp C4, which is a plastic matrix impregnated with HE, thus has a lot of filler to make it shapeable). The kinds of trucks you would need to haul it are like grain hoppers, and lots of them. You can't stack it on pallets.

That is why the nonsense about vandals running off with the stuff is just that — nonsense.

The issue, as always with explosives, is not HE- it is how to get the stuff to blow up. You can hit compressed RDX or HMX with a hammer and not set it off. And you can properly detonate ammonium nitrate fertilizer, as was done at the Oklahoma City Federal building by McVeigh et al, and have a disaster. You can also detonate wheat dust in a rural grain elevator and re-create the bombing of the African embassies.

The reason that old artillery ammunition is desired for creation of IEDs is not that it has high explosive in it, it is because those rounds have fuzes, lead cups, and boosters- the full fire train needed to make HE go "boom". Remember your fireplace- you need to start with a match, then crumpled newspaper, add twigs when they are roaring effectively, then sticks, then small branches, etc. Trying to do something useful with pure HMX or RDX is like trying to flick your BIC lighter at a 20 pound pure oak log. It will be a long time before you warm up. When I was waling around Holston Army Ammunition Plant one time, where the US manufactured its RDX and HMX, there were cloth laundry carts all over the place full of white powder that looked and felt like conrstarch. I wasn't in the least worried that if I tripped and fell against the cart I would be blown up.

The only way you make those 40 trucks crammed full of HE blow up is to set off an explosion near them. The Saddam drivers carrying them all to Syria and elsewhere in mid-March were probably smoking as they drove, with relative safety. Raw HE is easy to find- what is a challenge is making it controllably useful."

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerry200410261142.asp

Here is another one. The math behind what it would take to move this stuff.

Unfortunately for the New York Times, no one gave a thought about the logistics of the notion that small bands of insurgents made off with 380 tons of explosives under the noses of the Coalition with no one noticing. CQ reader and retired Army Reserve Captain Ian Dodgson got paid to think about logistics, and he did some "cocktail-napkin" math that escaped the geniuses at the Paper of Record:

We're familiar with the NY Times story and the IAEA accusations that the "missing" explosives were looted from the Al-Qaqaa military base due to US negligence in securing the facility.

If I were a guerilla "looter" and I was planning such an operation from a military standpoint, here's what the task would require:

Assumptions:

-Each "looter" could haul comfortably about 25 pounds per trip to a truck. (of course after 12 hours that would require superhuman endurance)

-I'd allow 5 minutes per round trip to the truck

-Work day 12 hours

-assume security breaks down 1 week after war starts (that allows 2
weeks before the US troops arrive)

-each pickup truck can carry about 1/4 ton of explosives (I did a quick calculation based upon the dimensions and weight of a block of C-4 and the dimensions of an average small pickup) and it takes 15 minutes to either load or unload the truck.

-the secure hiding place for 380 tons of explosives is 30 minutes away.

Calculations:

-380 tons / [((12hrs/dayX60min/hr) / (5 min per load)) X (25 lbs per load) X 14 days] = 15 loaders X 2 = 30 loaders/unloaders

-30 loaders/unloaders times 200% for breaks, rest, inefficiency, etc. = 60 loaders and unloaders.

-380 tons / [(12hrs/day / 1 hr/round trip,load,unload) X (.25 tons per trip) X 14 days] = 10 trucks and drivers X 1.5 (contingency) = 15 trucks and drivers.

-4 trucks + 10-15 men to supply water, food and other logistical
requirements

Total = 19-20 trucks, 90 men working continuously for two weeks to "loot" facility.

Bottom line this operation would take the resources of AN ENTIRE COMPANY (approx. 100 men) OVER TWO WEEKS, good Intel to know exactly where the "right" explosives were hidden and a means of breaching huge steel doors and concrete of an ASP.

And all of this would have to be done in an area with numerous intel overflights that would be looking for exactly this kind of activity in the combat zone, and not get noticed at all. Like so much of what the New York Times, CBS, and the Kerry campaign feeds us ... it just doesn't add up.

Posted by Captain Ed at October 26, 2004 12:48 PM



http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/002869.php

 

[metzen]

BULLSHIT !! That cocksucker would want to wait ANOTHER TWELVE YEARS and then get UN permission. This has got to be one of the stupidest fuckin responses I have EVER heard. What fuckin rock and/or hole did this person come out from????

It was a joke.

 

[p0ink]

you liberals... LOL!

here is the proof that these were gone BEFORE we even got there.

http://www.drudgereport.com/nbcw.htm
http://www.latimes.com/news/yahoo/la-fg-cbs26oct26,1,565561.story
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200410\POL20041026b.html

 

[p0ink]

you liberals... LOL!

here is the proof that these were gone BEFORE we even got there.

http://www.drudgereport.com/nbcw.htm
http://www.latimes.com/news/yahoo/la-fg-cbs26oct26,1,565561.story
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200410\POL20041026b.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.explosives/index.html

plus, why are you liberals so concerned about saddam's weapons all of the sudden? LOL!

egg...on...face