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KIAN
New member
1968Charger said:
Apologies for the long delay in getting back to you mate.
I have been working flat out since the New Year and my son has been sick.
Anyway, here is a copy of a conversation I had with a rep from MHP: (Maximum Human Performance)
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KP: Could you tell me please what the level of creatinine (note the different spelling) is in your product TRAC.
MHP: Please note that we do not use any creatinine in our products. Creatinine is a by-product of creatine monohydrate when it is left in water for an extended period of time.
KP: It would seem that your understanding of what creatine monohydrate is, is not based on known facts. Creatine Monohydrate is 88% creatine and 12% water, hence the term monohydrate (water molecule). Therefore creatine will have levels of creatinine present. It is this level of creatinine which I was inquiring about.
MHP: Creatine Monohydrate (water bound molecule) is the most stable form of creatine, even more than Ethyl Ester. If from a good source, there should be, if any, traces of creatinine found in creatine monohydrate until it interacts with water. Once mixed with water, it is recommended to consume right away. We use 4 grams of creatine monohydrate per serving in both of our Trac products.
KP: I believe you meant to say, 'If from a good source, there should NOT be, if any, traces of creatinine found in creatine monohydrate until it interacts with water'.
Regardless, I would refer you back to me previous point of the fact that creatine monohydrate is 12% water and is therefore susceptible to degradation and to the formation of creatinine. This can be compounded further by poor manufacturing techniques which would significantly increase creatinine levels. So my original question of how much creatinine is in your Creatine Monohydrate (12% water) TRAC product is all that I require answered.
MHP: To answer your question, our creatine powder, which is used in all of our formulations containing creatine contains a trace of creatinine, about 0.01% to be exact. Making it 99.9% pure creatine monohydrate.
KP: So at a PPM (parts per million) reading this would be ? _____
MHP: Not sure what your question is...? PPM's are used to measure trace minerals?
KP: The presence of Dicyandiamide, Creatinine, and Dihydrotriazine within creatine based products are measured at ppm (parts per million) levels via HPLC analysis. For a tested product to be considered 'quality', it must produce results within a specified parameter range for each respected contaminant. You have said that your TRAC product has a creatinine reading of 0.01% ('about'), which does not reflect a true HPLC analysis and is more in line with a COA which is not used to show the level of creatinine in any product.
If you could provide me with just the level of creatinine (ppm) in your TRAC product that would be great.
MHP: no response
KP: So am I to assume from your lack of response that you do not know the actual creatinine content of your TRAC product or is it that you do know but just don't want the general public to know the actual creatinine content of your TRAC product, keeping in mind that creatinine is a toxin.
MHP: I apologize for the lack of response as we have a few people in the customer service department answering the emails that we receive. TRAC does not contain any creatinine to begin with. If you mix the formula with water and drink it down immediately, you wont have any problems with it converting. If you mix it and let it sit for a little bit, then you will have some of the creatine in the formula convert into creatinine. I hope this helps a little.
KP: Thank you for the response.
All creatine based products contain creatinine to some degree as creatine monohydrate, the base for all products, is 88% creatine and 12% water. The presence of the water makes your claim not possible. Poor production techniques would further increase the creatinine contents. It is this level of creatinine I am interested in and you will find it listed on the HPLC analysis of your product, assuming it as been assessed.
I have already been told by one of your customer service reps that your TRAC product does infact contain creatinine, although their ininitial response was to deny the presence of any creatinine. A third response then expressed the creatinine at 'about' 0.01%. My response to that was to inquire what that 0.01% represents in PPM (parts per million). No response was supplied.
So it would appear that there is a great deal of confusion within your customer service department over the actual contents of your TRAC product.
I suppose we are lucky that I didn't inquire about the Dicyandiamide, Dihydrotriazine and Sodium content of your TRAC product.
So it is just the creatinine content I am interested in. If you could provide me with this value (expressed in PPM) I would be most greatful.
MHP: No response.
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It would seem that MHP is not really interested in discussing this particular product which they sell to consumers ... unless ofcourse you like being treated like an idiot. Since I have not used it, I will just look at the ingredients listed on the label.
Container Size: 425 Grams
Serving Size: 17 Grams
Servings Per Container: 25
Amount Per Serving:
Calories: 35
Total carbohydrates: 4
Sugars: 0
Creatine Monohydrate: 4 grams
L-Arginine: 4 grams
L-Lysine: 600 mg
L-Phenylalanine: 200 mg
NADH (nicotinamide adenine dinucledtide): 2.5mg
Ingredients: Maltodextrin, Citric Acid, Natural and Artificial Flavor, Sucralose, Acesulfame-K, Vegetable Oil, Folic acid, FD&C red #40 *, FD&C blue #1 *, FD&C Yellow #5 * (* depending on flavour)
Creatine Monohydrate: Each 4 gram serving will deliver, at most, 3.52 grams of actual creatine. I say 'at most' as MHP was unwilling to disclose the creatinine content so this will have some effect on the total creatine availabilty per serving.
L-Arginine: Arginine's primary function is in the metabolism of nitrogen and proteins. It will boost nitric oxide levels within the body and dilate blood vessels (hemodilator) which will allow for a greater flow of blood, which in turn may increase the supply of oxygen to muscle tissues. 4000 mg per serving is higher than most other hemodilators on the market (most of those being 3000 mg) so it would be advisable to watch your overall intake of L-arginine from all sources as you may expereince headaches or light headedness. If you suffer from the herpes simplex virus (HSV), cold sores, or mouth ulcers then you should avoid high intakes of arginine. Arginine will also help in lowering cholesterol levels but only when the ratio of arginine to lysine is high. You may experince more frequent or harder erections when using arginine.
L-lysine: This is an essential amino acid which is beneficial in promoting the absorption of calcium, collegen formation and the production of various enzymes. Lysine will compete directly with arginine for absorption so the use of these two aminos in this singular supplement is not advisable especially in the presence of a high protein diet. The resulting condition is called hyperammonemia ... where levels of ammonia in the blood rise significantly. To get the full effects of lysine, it is best combined with vitamin C.
L-Phenylalanine: This is required in the production of melanin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and thyroxine. If you have been diagnosed with phenylketonuria, then you should not use this supplement or any other supplement / food containing phenylalanine as it will act as a neuro toxin.
NADH: If your nutritional intake already has adequate amounts of vitamin B3 then you will not be deficient of NADH. This co-enzyme is responsible for stimulating the production of ATP (adenosine triphosphate) which regulates the release of energy from cells. As a supplement, NADH is extremely unstable and as far as I know, stabilised versions are only available in tablet form.
Maltodextrin: A complex carbohydrate made from corn starch.
Citric Acid: Used as a preservative and to add a sour taste to foods / supplements.
Sucralose: Artificial sweetener - 600 X sweeter than sucrose and is created by chlorinating sucrose.
Acesulfame K: Artificial sweetener - 200 X sweeter than sucrose and is a derivative of acetoacetic acid -- acetoacetic acid is usually present in the body when you undergo starvation or extreme physical exertion.
Vegetable Oil: The label doesn't specify which one (ie: canola, coconut, palm, sunflower, safflower, sesame seed, olive, etc.)
Folic Acid: This will also raise nitric oxide levels. Although a specified level was not listed, it is important to know if you have a vitamin B12 deficiency, especially if you are older, when you suplement specifically with folic acid.
FD&C colours are all derived from coal and/or petroleum.
MHP TRAC:
- Pro:
- L-arginine
- Con:
- L-lysine
- Citric Acid
- Sucralose
- Acesulfame-K
- FD&C colouing agents
- Artificial Flavours
- Customer Support
- Neutral:
- L-phenylalinine
- Maltodextrin
- Vegetable Oil
- Folic Acid
- Questionable:
- Creatine Monohydrate - MHP would need to show that the levels of Creatinine, Dicyandiamide, Dihydrotriazine and Sodium are all within acceptable limits for me to bump it up to 'Pro'
- NADH - MHP would also have to show that this is presented in a stabilised form
If you have made positive gains while using this product then that is great. My only concerns would be whether those gains have also come at the expense of consuming things you didn't expect or know about. Unless MHP releases such information or you have their product analysed by an independent lab, you will not know for sure.
My own opinion on this particular product is that I, personally, would pass on it. I have little faith in a supplement company whose reps go from stating that they don't put creatinine in their products, to stating that it contains 0.01% creatinine, then back again to not containing any creatinine, and then to no response whatsoever. If they are unsure as to what is really in the product which they sell, they I will have to assume that they will be equally unsure as to what to do when something goes wrong.
Hope this helps you out and apologies again for the long delay.
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KP--Fitness Basics
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