Thinking of taking testosterone

[TheBuffSwan]

stats- 129ib
5'4
Estimating about 21% BF
I weight train about 4-5 times a week with a lot of supersets and circuits. I'll do about 2 hours worth of cardio a week that is mostly HIIT. At about 1500-1800 calories a day. Hitting about 130g of protein, carb intake depends on my training for the day, but usually around 100-200g a day that is mostly oatmeal, veggies, fruit, and whole wheat pita bread.

Anyway, I am looking for something to give me that extra boost without looking like a man in my facial structure. I was thinking about trying some test, but not really sure what kind to get. I want to maintain my lean mass, cut some fat, but increase my strength. Thanks guys!

 

[jester72]

5' 4", 129lbs, and 21% body fat???? Those are NOT stats to use ANY type of gear whatsoever!!!
You need to learn proper diet and training if those are in fact your stats. Using any type of gear is only putting your health at risk at this point.

I understand this is the women's forum, but test is not the answer here. You need to get your stats in check via diet and training first. Then, and only then, a light cycle of Anavar might be feasible.

 

[musclemom]

Swan, I will tell you something as a woman who has taken testosterone (both on my own for weight training and as a prescription for HRT).

This is NOT a hormone to mess with. What you have to understand is that by the time the sides show the damage is done and it may not be reversible (and if you've got the right genetics you could get sides on even doses just slightly above physiologic, like I did). If your hair falls out, it might not grow back to the same thickness. If you start growing hair in places you don't want it, or more in places you never expected to, that probably ISN'T EVER going to reverse. If your voice deepens, you're stuck with it, for life.

If you want to lean out, diet is the key, period. If you're not as lean as you want then you need to reassess your diet and macros. Maybe you need to change your carb sources, maybe you need to try carb cycling, maybe your macros aren't right for you, maybe you're not being as diligent as you'd like to think you are about actual food and beverage intake. Additionally, if you change your diet you need to give a new diet four to six weeks before you can decide if it's working or not.

For most women to get a BF below 20% is HARD, that's just a cold fact. It takes patience and absolute ruthless diligence in terms of diet. Your natural hormones fight you every inch of the way because your body is built to make and sustain babies, and low body fat is NOT conducive to pregnancy.

If you're not as strong as you want to be are you sure you're eating correctly for the results you desire and for the type of training you're doing? If you've never seriously weight trained before you get a honeymoon period, ranging anywhere from six months to a year, where you DO lean out and gain strength like crazy but after that progress slows and strength increases become much harder won and it becomes virtually impossible to drop fat and gain muscle simultaneously (which is why you have to go through bulk and cut phases). If you're still trying to lean out and gain strength you could very well be working at cross purposes for what your body is now capable of doing, meaning, you may not be consuming enough calories to build muscle, which may also require you to gain some weight in terms of a little extra fat.

How exactly are you training? What kind of compound moves are you doing and how often? If you're eating to cut, with the desire to gain strength, you're not going to be happy with the results, you're just spinning your wheels. The best most people can hope for during a cut is to maintain what they have.

 

[CML0915]

I have done a very short Test Prop cycle before... I'll say this.. NEVER again!! I broke out SO bad, my face, chest, back and it took about 6 months to fully go away. I now have scars. I did 15mg's every other day, for 3 weeks.
Why would you even consider test for a first cycle as a woman? Have you done any research at all?
Steroids IMO should not be used while cutting unless you're in contest prep. The risks just aren't worth the reward. If you want to cut fat, stick to your calorie deficit and continue to lift heavy. If you cut "correctly" you shouldn't lose much, if any muscle mass. You may lose a tiny bit of strength but as long as you don't go crazy low on calories you should be ok.
Now, at some point I'm assuming you'll want to build some muscle. In that case, I think a low dose of Anavar, or even Tbol would be a great place to start.

 

[TheBuffSwan]

Thanks cml and musclemom. Jester made it seem like 21% BF is really high for me, when in actually this is the leanest I've ever been and always have people asking me to train them and do meal plans for them. I thought 20% was considered very good for women, but whatever. I honestly think my downfall is good ol alcohol. I am 24 and enjoy a glass of wine with my dinner meal (only when it is a meal comprised of high protein really)... but I do work graveyards at a casino as a cocktail waitress and all of my coworkers love to go out and drink. I'll stick to vodka+waters mostly, but if someone buys me a shot.... it's game over haha and it takes me about 4-5 days to get my gains back. So yeah, that is my bad on my part :/ Diet wise, you can ask anyone... I am pretty on point lol I found that I am sensitive to red meat, it hurts my stomach. But if I do get the hankering for red meat, I only eat flank steak or Round eye/bottom steak. My staple meal is hands down fish including tilapia and tuna. I will also eat ground turkey and chicken. I eat lots of veggies and my carbs only consist of plain oats, whole wheat pita bread, sweet potato, and whole wheat pasta (which is rarely). I am in a calorie deficit and have noticed my strength has gone done just a TAD, but I figured that would happen. I ALWAYS lift heavy at around 6-8 reps for about 3-4 sets. I usually focus on 2 body parts and always incorporate compound movements such as power cleans, squats, bench press, military press, etc. My lifting usually runs me an hour or even longer sometimes, so trust me I do some serious work in the gym! Maybe I need to bump up my cardio b/c I do about 90 mins a week, but it is mostly HIIT training. I also do intermittent fasting (14-16 hours) which I find actually working for me. I dropped from like 132 to 127 doing this method and that is a huge deal for me considering my plateau weight is around 130. and then I go drinking and I fuck it all up hahaha I guess I just need to buckle down and cut out socialized drinking. I want to start seeing game changing gains and it is a sacrifice I am willing to make!

 

[jester72]

Actually, I was not making it sound like it was too high. It is however at the high-end of the spectrum for women to be using steroids.
Most steroids raise red blood cell count, affect blood lipid values, and mess with blood pressure. The higher your percentage of body fat, the more adversely you'd be affected with sides.
My opinion is to still get your diet dialed in, and avoid the alcohol. If cycling is in your future, alcohol is a definite detriment.

 

[caligirl85]

Some great advice here. Jumping right into a test cycle, imo, would be a mistake and I absolutely wouldn't even consider it, until you can fully maintain a diet for a period of time (even then I'd probably not start there). The change in facial structure can come after use, for sure, but so can a whack of other sides.

 

[musclemom]

Honestly, Swan, if you really want to get super lean you need to log food down to the gram. Most trainers I've known would tell you if you're really serious about cutting alcohol is absolutely forbidden, not even once in a while, it's that bad, especially when your diet isn't dialed in. FYI, I have read some studies that say alcohol in any form can negatively impact fat burning for anywhere from 12 to 24 hours after consumption. Basically you can eat perfectly all day, exercise just right and shoot yourself in the foot with that glass of wine.

You really have to decide what you want to do and design a comprehensive approach:
Lean out - which is NOT the same as lose weight.
OR
Gain strength/muscle.

I will tell you if you're seeing consistent strength loss then you're probably not eating sufficiently to maintain your muscle. The general rule of thumb for cutting is 10 to 12 times your bodyweight in calories, consumed in macro percentages (in grams) of 40p/30c/30f. Losing anything more than 1.5 pounds per week means you're probably losing muscle, particularly if you're seeing steady loss in strength or endurance.

 

[zazen5]

Women supposedly increase strength through different means than men. Sure testosterone maybe would help, I question why not use other more easily and widely available sources to increase strength. Creatine Monohydrate. 12 bucks for 400 grams at Walmart. Take 50 mg zinc citrate in the evening. Eat lots of eggs all day long, rest 2-3 minutes between sets. Only 3 sets of 1-2 exercise per major muscle group. Work on olympic lifts. Minimize cardio. Get lots of rest. Play chess to augment muscle force. Read Book of Mormon to augment muscle force. You do all these things chances are you will find that heavy lifting is painful. Generally it is the mind that limits, not the body. For example, I probably could do 10 reps at 400 for deadlifts, but it gets really tiring around 6-8 reps so it is the mental factors that boost strength. You cant buy strength it is earned. You may not even need the testosterone given the multiple hormones all working together in a woman's body.

 

[TheBuffSwan]

I totally agree with you guys. Just need to dial in more on my diet and log my nutrition every day. And no more alcohol for me :/ mind over matter for sure considering alllllll my friends like to drink lol but I'll the DD and learn to have fun drinking lemon waters. I do take creatine already, but the zinc sounds like a good idea for sure. So cardio wise, you think too much will waste my muscle? I never go past 25 mins doing HIIT


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[zazen5]

Its not that too much cardio will waste the muscle, it will put the muscle function at cross purposes. Anaerobic type aerobics interacts correctly with weightlifting: Karate, sprinting, plyometrics. The main thing though is health above all else. Try different things and see how your body responds remembering to train with good technique which is especially important during sprinting and plyometrics to avoid injuries. Keep in mind that the heavier you go in general the easier it will be to burn calories, so gaining fat will not even be an issue. The key is to tailor the training so not only do you get results but the training is fun too, as it should be.

 

[CML0915]

I totally agree with you guys. Just need to dial in more on my diet and log my nutrition every day. And no more alcohol for me :/ mind over matter for sure considering alllllll my friends like to drink lol but I'll the DD and learn to have fun drinking lemon waters. I do take creatine already, but the zinc sounds like a good idea for sure. So cardio wise, you think too much will waste my muscle? I never go past 25 mins doing HIIT


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A glass of wine 1-2x per week isn't going to make or break a diet and I'd be skeptical of anyone who tells you otherwise. It's the binge drinking or getting "tipsy" that kills a diet.

For one week (longer would be better) weigh all foods and liquids with calories on a digital scale (in grams). It will be eye opening!
A good "rule" to follow is...
1g of protein/lb
.5g of fat/lb
And the rest in carbs until you have reached your daily calorie allowance.
At your stats you would see steady fat loss at 1600 calories (as long as you're tracking correctly).
I have to say though, you've only got 10lbs at the MOST before you hit the underweight category. If you are still unhappy with your body composition at that point it's due to lack of overall muscle.

 

[TheBuffSwan]

I really do appreciate all of the advice yeah I need a digital food scale for sure. I've been talking about wanting to get one for awhile now actually. And yeah I calculated 1500-1600 for myself too. I just need to weigh my food so I know for a definite fact I am not going under or over my calorie goal. And I'm not really concerned with "weight." Just cutting my fat, I'm actually pretty content with my muscle right now


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[caligirl85]

Its not that too much cardio will waste the muscle, it will put the muscle function at cross purposes. Anaerobic type aerobics interacts correctly with weightlifting: Karate, sprinting, plyometrics. The main thing though is health above all else. Try different things and see how your body responds remembering to train with good technique which is especially important during sprinting and plyometrics to avoid injuries. Keep in mind that the heavier you go in general the easier it will be to burn calories, so gaining fat will not even be an issue. The key is to tailor the training so not only do you get results but the training is fun too, as it should be.

Gaining fat is always an issue for women!! Do your cardio at the end of your weight training, keep your protein high enough and you will not waste muscle. That is a huge bodybuilding myth.

OP..it sounds like you are on the right track...just time to kick it up to the next level. Try that out first and then decide on an aas.

 

[musclemom]

A glass of wine 1-2x per week isn't going to make or break a diet and I'd be skeptical of anyone who tells you otherwise. It's the binge drinking or getting "tipsy" that kills a diet.

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. If a woman wants to cut her bodyfat then alcohol is one variable that should be eliminated. It's a no brainer. We're talking about empty calories that also have a medically proven metabolic impact.

For the entire time your body is metabolizing alcohol you will not burn fat. You simply can't. Your body is going to burn the acetate first. Not to mention the fact alcohol has a tendency to elevate your estrogen levels and it throws your hydration off.

I mean, yeah, the occasional drink here or there when you're not trying to reduce body fat isn't going to hurt anything but not when they're trying to cut and don't have the nuances of their diet dialed in.

 

[CML0915]

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. If a woman wants to cut her bodyfat then alcohol is one variable that should be eliminated. It's a no brainer. We're talking about empty calories that also have a medically proven metabolic impact.



For the entire time your body is metabolizing alcohol you will not burn fat. You simply can't. Your body is going to burn the acetate first. Not to mention the fact alcohol has a tendency to elevate your estrogen levels and it throws your hydration off.



I mean, yeah, the occasional drink here or there when you're not trying to reduce body fat isn't going to hurt anything but not when they're trying to cut and don't have the nuances of their diet dialed in.

If a woman (or man) sticks to their Calorie deficit they'll reach their goals. It really doesn't matter if those calories are Ho Ho's and Ben and Jerry's, alcohol, a "bro" diet or IIFYM. Of course some choices are "healthier" than the others. But that's not the point.

Alcohol isn't going to magically make someone gain weight.

With that said... Alcohol can make people make bad decisions (shit, really?) so keeping away from it while cutting is probably a good idea. That pint of Ben and Jerry's at 230am is probably not the best idea. Not to mention the lack of motivation to get up and lift in the morning

 

[musclemom]

If a woman (or man) sticks to their Calorie deficit they'll reach their goals. It really doesn't matter if those calories are Ho Ho's and Ben and Jerry's, alcohol, a "bro" diet or IIFYM. Of course some choices are "healthier" than the others. But that's not the point.

Alcohol isn't going to magically make someone gain weight.

With that said... Alcohol can make people make bad decisions (shit, really?) so keeping away from it while cutting is probably a good idea. That pint of Ben and Jerry's at 230am is probably not the best idea. Not to mention the lack of motivation to get up and lift in the morning

Okay, I'm apparently not clearly expressing myself. I DID NOT say that alcohol will make someone gain fat, I said it will interfere with the fat burning process, and that is a simple fact. If you want the medical details in lay terms I saved this piece I ran across years ago:

The liver cells are the only cells in the body that can make adequate amounts of the enzyme, alcohol dehydrogenase. This is what effectively breaks down alcohol. When alcohol is present the liver cells are forced to metabolize alcohol (not fat) and the fatty acids accumulate. In other words the liver is too busy detoxifying the alcohol that has been consumed that it doesn't burn fat effectively.

Alcohol actually counts as 2 servings of fat per 4-5 ounces of wine, 1 light beer or 1 ounce of hard liquor according to the diabetic exchange system.

Alcohol is a harsh diuretic, but by being a diuretic, alcohol depletes the water soluble B vitamins. The B vitamins have numerous functions in the body (fighting stress and helping us digest food properly) but in terms of weight management they are important in supporting the fat burning process.

Rather than getting stored as fat, the main fate of alcohol is conversion into a substance called acetate. In fact, blood levels of acetate after drinking vodka were 2.5 times higher than normal. And it appears this sharp rise in acetate puts the brakes on fat loss.

A car engine typically uses only one source of fuel. Your body, on the other hand, draws from a number of different energy sources, such as carbohydrate, fat, and protein. To a certain extent, the source of fuel your body uses is dictated by its availability. In other words, your body tends to use whatever you feed it. Consequently, when acetate levels rise, your body simply burns more acetate, and less fat. In essence, acetate pushes fat to the back of the queue.

Now, IF someone knows their body, knows what dietary macros and caloric counts work for them for fat burning then YES they can certainly have that occasional glass of wine if they so choose (although nobody I've ever followed on a cut for competition ever opted to do that). BUT the OP does NOT have her diet nailed. So for the sake of simplicity it's just common sense to eliminate that particular variable from the equation.

NOW, that being said, speaking as a woman who has been perimenopausal for quite some time I can assure you, more goes into weight loss than just calories in/calories out. 95% of women who are peri and postmenopausal will tell you the same thing. Hormones, not just metabolic hormones like thyroid, play a huge role in gaining/losing fat. Hormonal birth control can also cause issues for certain women. Finally, various prescription medications make losing weight virtually impossible. This is particularly true of corticosteroids and many psychoactive medications, including medications for depression. Something happens with certain meds that totally shuts down all fat loss efforts. When you consider that our digestive tract and gut are lined with neural tissue, that in fact more neural tissue resides there than in our brain and spine, it makes complete sense that any medication that would affect brain chemistry has the potential to impact digestive functions, including the hormonal messengers that tell our body its hungry or that it can burn fat.

Please don't take this as anything more than an attempt to convey information. We are all here to help each other the best way we know how.

 

[zazen5]

Didn't know that women have a hard time w/fat loss. Could be because I'm a guy and to me most women look good. My wife wants to lose weight, think she is about 215 looks good in my opinion, I told her to do the reverse, eat as much as possible and then lift heavy try to gain muscle. When she was pregnant she actually lost weight. As far as weight loss goes the only really unsafe thing is abdominal fat. As far as health and appearance goes large thighs and hips aren't an issue.

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