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Worshippers in the Reliant stadium, Houston, during the seven-hour prayer rally addressed by Rick Perry was billed as an attempt to reverse America’s national decline. Photograph: David J. Phillip/AP

Rick Perry's call to prayer draws crowd of 30,000 | World news | The Guardian

Rick Perry's call to prayer draws crowd of 30,000

Secular America watches nervously as the Christian evangelical Texas governor moves closer to presidential bid


It was billed as a day of prayer and fasting to halt America's national decline, and about 30,000 answered the call, flooding into Houston's Reliant stadium for a seven-hour marathon which blended Christian revivalism with hard-headed electoral campaigning.

There was plenty of prayer: some of the faithful stood with arms held high in supplication, others danced trancelike in the aisles and still more lay spreadeagled on the floor.

The fasting was less conspicuous: long queues formed at Prince's Hamburgers, Tejas Nachos, Five Star Dogs and other fast-food stands inside the cavernous arena.

The rally on Saturday marked another step towards the launch of Rick Perry's presidential campaign, giving the governor of Texas a national platform for the first time, with 250 reporters and camera crews covering it.

More importantly, it virtually guaranteed him the support of the Christian evangelical movement, with its network of volunteers and finance, plus a large bloc of votes in Republican caucuses and primaries.

Perry, 61, who is in his third full term as governor, has still not officially announced his candidacy for the Republican nomination. But whenever he does – he is expected to declare his intentions this month – he will likely become the frontrunner for the nomination to take on Barack Obama next year.

"I would vote for him. I would vote for him out of all the Republican candidates," said Buzz Park amid an audience which included youth groups, soccer moms and Christian bikers. "He is not afraid to say this is a problem and this is how to fix it. Obama is not a leader."

Park said America was in decline economically and morally, and losing its influence abroad. "The nation that forgets God is turned into hell," he said. God had promised that through prayer this could be reversed, healing the land. Had this been successful before? Park cited Fiji in the 1990s and revivalist meetings in Wales around 1900.

The rally originated in December when Perry called for Christians across the US to join him in Houston and invited the other 49 state governors to attend. Organisers put the attendance at about 30,000, less than half the capacity of the 71,000-seater stadium. The only other governor to turn up was Sam Brownback from Kansas.

The turnout was higher than some had expected but was still quite low given that Houston is the fourth-largest city in the US and a large proportion profess to be Christian. Some of America's megachurches attract 30,000 or more every Sunday. But Perry showed no sign of disappointment. He seemed happier and more enthusiastic preaching in Houston than he had when delivering a political speech at the Republicans' southern conference in New Orleans in June. He finished his 13-minute sermon with a smile and a clenched fist.

"Father, our heart breaks for America. We see discord at home. We see fear in the marketplace. We see anger in the halls of government, and as a nation we have forgotten who made us, who protects us, who blesses us, and for that we cry out for your forgiveness," Perry said.

His rhetorical style is derived from the tent preachers of the Old West, and the crowd stood enthusiastically throughout, responding with amens.

Much of secular and liberal America watches anxiously at the prospect of another Texas president tied to the Christian evangelical movement. That unease is shared by progressive Christians who fear Perry is identifying with the most conservative church leaders.

The American Family Association (AFA), which runs a network of 200 radio stations – and which has been labelled a "hate group" by the Southern Poverty Law Centre for its attitude to gay people – contributed an estimated $1m towards the cost of the rally.

The Cornerstone Church – whose leader, John Hagee, gained notoriety for declaring that Hurricane Katrina was God's vengeance on a sinful New Orleans and suggesting that Jews had brought the Holocaust on themselves – sent about 700 members, travelling from San Antonio by car and bus.

Elva Spoor said she had come with the Cornerstone delegation so "God can bless us and give us rain and turn the nation back to God". But what about gay people? "God says he loves everyone but he hates the sin," said Spoor. "God says it is an aberration to him."

John McCain, the previous Republican presidential candidate, had an uneasy relationship with Christian evangelicals, initially ignoring them and then seeking out their support. But he drew the line at Hagee and refused to accept his endorsement.

Until a last-minute change of running-order, Hagee was scheduled to speak directly after Perry. Hagee steered away from controversial subjects and offered prayers for the nation's leaders, before comparing Perry to Abraham Lincoln.

"We pray for our governor Rick Perry who has had the courage today to call this time of fasting and prayer just as Abraham Lincoln did in the darkest days of the civil war," Hagee said.

The event provoked a backlash in Texas, including a lawsuit by atheists aimed at stopping it, charging that Perry was in breach of the separation of politics and religion. On Saturday, a plane flew over the stadium with a banner with the same message about separation of politics and religion. Other Christian churches held alternative prayer meetings on Friday and Saturday.

Among about 150 protesters outside the stadium was Pastor Katherine Godby. Carrying a poster saying "Hate Is Not A Gospel Value", she expressed sadness that Perry had aligned himself with the AFA.

Godby, of the First Congregational United Church of Christ in Fort Worth, said: "We see their portrayal of the gospel as one of exclusion and hatred."

Jennifer Stephenson, a mother of three from San Antonio carrying a "Christians Against Perry" placard, described the attitude of groups such as the AFA as "un-Christian".

She was worried that disillusionment with Obama among leftwing voters might open the way for a possible Perry presidency. "I think Perry has a good chance, unfortunately. He is good-looking, brought a lot of jobs to this state and has got a lot of Christians behind him," she said. "The Christian voting bloc is a force to contend with."

Perry's previous attempts to invoke a higher power suggest that there are limits to the power of prayer. In April, he declared a three-day vigil for rain in Texas. But those prayers have so far gone unanswered, and the state is still suffering its worst drought since 1895.
 
Works as good as anything else those jackasses in washington have been doing.

Otherwise Im not too keen about the breakdown between church and state Perry is engaging in vis-a-vis the christian prayer rally.
 
I didn't know they voted you to be there spokes person. If so, I am converting to athiesm
 
I didn't know they voted you to be there spokes person. If so, I am converting to athiesm

Just look at Rick Perri's position on gay rights, abortion and Muslims...For that matter...look at every Repub looking for the nomination on those positions.

If they actually climbed down from the cross and were willing to fight for fiscal issues over social issues I might actually vote for one...


The evangelicals are quite clear on what they believe and have been pushing hard since the "Moral Majority" coalition of the 1980's....I'm pretty sure Ronald Reagan never comprehended the shitstorm embracing the Christian right would create; He couldn't get the Repub nomination for president because he was pro choice for a period of his political career.

I want to vote for someone with real solutions based on reason and evidence, not someone that says elect me and Jesus will give me the answers...we had that with Obama..a faith based election...hope and change....:worried:
 
I don't care for religious rallies, but I sure do like jobs. A religious nut with sound economic policies trumps a secular social justice ideologue with stagnant, 9%+ unemployment.

Barry could hold a national day of prayer to the god of his choice if it would get unemployment down to 8%.
 
1st Don't blame Obama on Christians. Most Christians wouldn't vote Democrate to save your life bro.

2nd Pro Choice, no shit we wouldn't vote him in. We are not ok with abortion and most Christians believe in saving life not stopping it.


Just look at Rick Perri's position on gay rights, abortion and Muslims...For that matter...look at every Repub looking for the nomination on those positions.

If they actually climbed down from the cross and were willing to fight for fiscal issues over social issues I might actually vote for one...


The evangelicals are quite clear on what they believe and have been pushing hard since the "Moral Majority" coalition of the 1980's....I'm pretty sure Ronald Reagan never comprehended the shitstorm embracing the Christian right would create; He couldn't get the Repub nomination for president because he was pro choice for a period of his political career.

I want to vote for someone with real solutions based on reason and evidence, not someone that says elect me and Jesus will give me the answers...we had that with Obama..a faith based election...hope and change....:worried:
 
ALso, what is so bad with good morals

Don't kill, steal, lie, etc

Sounds like a dude with good character
 
I don't know much about that kind of Christianity or praying (I've never had a seizure or gone into a trance) but why not? It's not any different than those unethical economists with their bullshit unprovable theories running around presenting themselves as knowing more about the economy than it is really possible to know...pretending their ideology is superior to studying astrology and looking at the stars and predicting the future...or prayer.
 
I don't know much about that kind of Christianity or praying (I've never had a seizure or gone into a trance) but why not? It's not any different than those unethical economists with their bullshit unprovable theories running around presenting themselves as knowing more about the economy than it is really possible to know...pretending their ideology is superior to studying astrology and looking at the stars and predicting the future...or prayer.

That's a great point.

Being a Christian doesn't seem to involve any more blind faith than being a Keynesian Economist.
 
um, i would say they came out of it at peace with God, and came to terms with the fact America is screwed
 
probably not. God didn't put us into this kinda debt, so I think he may let us figure that one out. Americans spend too much on credit.
 
Oh. Then they should have called it:
7 hour prayer rally so we can feel more at peace with our current economical sitaution. That makes much more sense to me.
 
they should have called it

7 hour prayer meeting that Obama doesn't get voted in for another term
 
Who you voting for Smurf, ya bitch ass nigga?
 
I never understood what this whole "praying". Bullshit was since I was a child.
Having people wish for shit is ridiculous, and just plain lazy.
 
prayer is a great thing, I try to pray every day. Now that doesn't mean that I act lazy and just expect God to do everything. This is how I look at prayer

"Pray like everything relies on God and work like it all depends on you"
 
prayer is a great thing, I try to pray every day. Now that doesn't mean that I act lazy and just expect God to do everything. This is how I look at prayer

"Pray like everything relies on God and work like it all depends on you"

God Hates you mutha fucker, he just told me so.
 
it's not true bro, i know you're angry about your k, but it's not yours now, it is gone
 
Yea bro it's gone now, you stupid ass mutha fucker
 
Sure
 
prayer is a great thing, I try to pray every day. Now that doesn't mean that I act lazy and just expect God to do everything. This is how I look at prayer

"Pray like everything relies on God and work like it all depends on you"
So, do you believe you're in control, or is God in control? I have heard from other christian friends that everything happens according to God's will. Is that true?
 
So, do you believe you're in control, or is God in control? I have heard from other christian friends that everything happens according to God's will. Is that true?

GOD hates girthrider, that's why he's stuck in a smoothie shop in Wisconsin
 
I don't agree with that.

Part of the Lords Prayer is "let your will be done on earth as it is in heaven" That means that God's will is happening in heaven but not on earth.

I don't believe that pain, suffering, murder, and all the rest of the messed up shit that happens on earth is part of Gods will. I think people make up theology to try to comfort people, which is stupid. How can you tell a mom that just lost her child that it is part of Gods will. I'd be pissed at God if it were true.
 
LOLZ not part of God's will? So you saying God can't do shit bout what happens on Earth? And that something other than his will can be done, GTFO.
 
I don't agree with that.

Part of the Lords Prayer is "let your will be done on earth as it is in heaven" That means that God's will is happening in heaven but not on earth.

I don't believe that pain, suffering, murder, and all the rest of the messed up shit that happens on earth is part of Gods will. I think people make up theology to try to comfort people, which is stupid. How can you tell a mom that just lost her child that it is part of Gods will. I'd be pissed at God if it were true.
Good point. Yeah, I never quite understood that either. I wonder why they say things that don't actually make sense. Anyways, I have tons of Christian friends and they spout this stuff off all the time on FB. I just say, well to each his own. Whatever makes them happy.
 
Fat people can never become Angels, true statement.
 
LOLZ not part of God's will? So you saying God can't do shit bout what happens on Earth? And that something other than his will can be done, GTFO.

I do believe God can do things about what is happening on earth. that was not the question. The question was, Is everything that happens on earth part of Gods will.
 
I do believe God can do things about what is happening on earth. that was not the question. The question was, Is everything that happens on earth part of Gods will.

The point is ya dumb Yankee fuck, that nothing can be done outside of the will of God ya fucking moran, so everything that happens is of God's plan therefore his will is done in everything that happens. Read the Bible ya stupid bitch, before ya get on here taking sides with fucking heathens.
 
lol SB gets so bent out of shape. Except he doesn't know how to express himself in an intelligible way so it just sounds like he's having a seizure.
 
lol SB gets so bent out of shape. Except he doesn't know how to express himself in an intelligible way so it just sounds like he's having a seizure.

I expressed myself very well, did you not understand what I said?
 
bro, I have studied and continue to study the bible often. What you are speaking is your philosophy, but is not theology. Sin is not part of God's will. WHat Gods will is, and what God allows to happen are two different things. SB you think your Jesus, so it goes to show how much you know
 
bro, I have studied and continue to study the bible often. What you are speaking is your philosophy, but is not theology. Sin is not part of God's will. WHat Gods will is, and what God allows to happen are two different things. SB you think your Jesus, so it goes to show how much you know

NO I never said I was The Jesus, I said I am EF Jesus, you stupid fuck.
 
I bet my sentance was too deep for SB, all he got was me saying he thinks he is Jesus
 
I feel very good about myself, I'm swolt, hung, high, and Zoloft gotta ngr not wanting to kill himself. SHit is good, and Jesus loves me.
 
I agree Earth Rider I'm high as fuck
 
Cause I'm touching her asshole with my tounge
 
Good point. Yeah, I never quite understood that either. I wonder why they say things that don't actually make sense. Anyways, I have tons of Christian friends and they spout this stuff off all the time on FB. I just say, well to each his own. Whatever makes them happy.

Facebook christianity is hilarious. I've never ever done anything like that.
 
Facebook christianity is hilarious. I've never ever done anything like that.
Yeah my entire family are Roman Catholic but none of them talk about christianity or religion on FB either. Anyway, I have some very devout christian friends and ultimately all their posts are something to do with God, God's will, how blessed they are, etc. Which is ok, if that makes them feel better, but I just SMH.
 
Yeah my entire family are Roman Catholic but none of them talk about christianity or religion on FB either. Anyway, I have some very devout christian friends and ultimately all their posts are something to do with God, God's will, how blessed they are, etc. Which is ok, if that makes them feel better, but I just SMH.


IMO actually discussing prayer or God in my life or whatever is very very personal and not something I'm very comfortable doing. Sometimes here and there I have a moment where I smile to myself but I can't think of one time where I would ever mention it to anyone, much less announce it on Facebook. I never understood how people are so open about it. lol. Whatever makes them feel better I guess? Keep that shit private I say!
 
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1st Don't blame Obama on Christians. Most Christians wouldn't vote Democrate to save your life bro.

2nd Pro Choice, no shit we wouldn't vote him in. We are not ok with abortion and most Christians believe in saving life not stopping it.

The "Saddleback Forum" convinced many evangelicals Obama was a good Christian....I discussed it on this board.

Obama Made Gains Among Younger Evangelical Voters, Data Show - NYTimes.com

President-elect Barack Obama succeeded in chiseling off small but significant chunks of white evangelical voters who have been the foundation of the Republican Party for decades, a close look at voting patterns reveals.

Shifts Among the Religions

The change reflects a broader shift among religious voters in every category. Mr. Obama made gains among Catholics, Jews and mainline Protestants, compared with the Democratic presidential nominee in 2004, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts.

But the big question was whether Mr. Obama could appeal to evangelicals — born-again Christians, who make up about a quarter of the electorate and have been largely Republican stalwarts.

Early in the campaign, he mobilized a team led by the Rev. Joshua DuBois, a Pentecostal pastor, who focused on reaching out to politically moderate evangelicals, Catholics and mainline Protestants.

“The Obama campaign really made a decision to target their efforts to moderates,” said Mara Vanderslice, founder and director of the Matthew 25 Network, a political action group that ran advertisements on Christian radio for Mr. Obama. “Their plan was never to go after people who’d been voting Republican for 20 years.”

“There never was an aggressive outreach effort to white Southern Baptist evangelicals in the South; that wasn’t the focus,” added Ms. Vanderslice, an evangelical Christian who was Mr. Kerry’s director of religious outreach.

Campaign workers contacted individual ministers, even those they knew would not necessarily vote for Mr. Obama, and mailed copies of his speeches on faith and politics to thousands of them.

For some, the campaign arranged meetings or phone calls with Mr. Obama, a first-term senator from Illinois. The goal, organizers said, was to humanize him as a person of genuine faith, so that even those pastors who opposed him would be hesitant to attack him publicly.

The campaign also visited about 10 Christian colleges in swing states, often staging events with Donald Miller, a bestselling author popular with younger evangelicals and an Obama supporter. And campaign workers organized more than 900 “American values house parties,” in which Obama supporters invited members of their church to talk politics.

The payoff was both generational and geographic. Mr. Obama doubled his support among young white evangelicals (those ages 18 to 29) compared with Mr. Kerry. The increase was almost the same for white evangelicals ages 30 to 44.

“There is definitely a generational division,” said David P. Gushee, professor of Christian ethics at Mercer University and author of “The Future of Faith in American Politics: The Public Witness of the Evangelical Center.”

“Young evangelicals,” Dr. Gushee said, are “attracted to a broader agenda” beyond abortion and homosexuality, that includes the environment, poverty, human rights and torture.

Nationwide, most white evangelicals remained in the Republican camp despite misgivings they voiced about the depth of Senator John McCain’s commitment to a conservative social agenda. Mr. McCain, of Arizona, held 74 percent of the white evangelical vote, compared with 24 percent for Mr. Obama — a gain of only three percentage points over Mr. Kerry.

But in most of the swing states where Mr. Obama’s campaign concentrated, like Colorado, Florida, Indiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Virginia, his gains over Mr. Kerry in 2004 among white evangelicals were larger.

Mr. Obama improved his standing by 10 points among white evangelicals in Colorado. The state is home to what many consider to be the capitol of evangelical America, Colorado Springs, where dozens of conservative megaministries like Focus on the Family have their headquarters and employ tens of thousands of people.

He also did well with Catholics, who make up about a quarter of the American electorate, winning 54 percent of that vote compared with 45 percent for Mr. McCain. Most of the Catholic boost for Mr. Obama came from Hispanic Catholics, who are now 6 percent of the electorate.

Mr. Obama, a member of the United Church of Christ, a Protestant denomination, managed to increase his share of the Catholic vote by seven percentage points over Mr. Kerry, who is a Catholic.
 
ALso, what is so bad with good morals

Don't kill, steal, lie, etc

Sounds like a dude with good character

You forgot....

Thou shalt have no god but for me because Yahweh is a jealous god, which is why you can have no graven images. (that's #1 which implies its the most important followed by #2)

#3 Thou shalt not take your lords name in vain....

#4 Thou shalt keep the sabbath sacred...death was the punishment for working on the sabbath...

Thou shalt not murder is the sixth most important commandment.

Sounds more like Yahweh is either Kim Jong-Il or running a marketing firm to self promote over real moral values...those last commandments are held in equal esteem by EVERY culture....polytheistic, monotheistic or other...

I missed the commandment where slavery was condemned? I know in Judges Yahweh condemned the geigh, which is between 1%-2% of the human population, but he missed the slavery condemnation as immoral even though the Israelite s supposedly were just freed from that evil by Moses?
 
great points java, lol

carry on loving Jesus everyone

oh, and, i am friends with lots of evangelicals whom I love and they live great lives. Nobody i know of voted for Obama. Actually right now, it is hard to find anybody that voted for him, lol
 
great points java, lol

carry on loving Jesus everyone

oh, and, i am friends with lots of evangelicals whom I love and they live great lives. Nobody i know of voted for Obama. Actually right now, it is hard to find anybody that voted for him, lol

Don't encourage him. lol
 
Christians who think that the country needs to turn back to Jesus or whatever are just saying pretty things they heard from their parents...that is NOT how it is written will happen. There is no going back to whatever back to was...

Christians need to be tolerant. The opposite of tolerance is to be bigoted and it is morally wrong to be bigoted. That goes for both Christians and others, to not be tolerant is MORALLY WRONG (that means you java )Of course to refuse to make a judgement about an immoral action is to be a coward but a truly tolerant person does not stop from making moral judgments but does not wish to use power to force others to change their beliefs or actions. It is not our job to force morality on people. That includes abortion.
 
Cindy you should find comfort in the fact Java is gonna burn in hell for all eternity, I know I do, and I like Java.
 
You forgot....

Thou shalt have no god but for me because Yahweh is a jealous god, which is why you can have no graven images. (that's #1 which implies its the most important followed by #2)

#3 Thou shalt not take your lords name in vain....

#4 Thou shalt keep the sabbath sacred...death was the punishment for working on the sabbath...

Thou shalt not murder is the sixth most important commandment.

Sounds more like Yahweh is either Kim Jong-Il or running a marketing firm to self promote over real moral values...those last commandments are held in equal esteem by EVERY culture....polytheistic, monotheistic or other...

I missed the commandment where slavery was condemned? I know in Judges Yahweh condemned the geigh, which is between 1%-2% of the human population, but he missed the slavery condemnation as immoral even though the Israelite s supposedly were just freed from that evil by Moses?

Anyone who claims they get their morality from the 10 commandments or the bible has not thought it through. We don't need the bible to be moral and although the bible contains moral precepts we don't base our morality from the bible...and the bible agrees with me. Do I need to post examples?

You have not adequately thought through why you judge Yahweh with moral standards that shoudn't exist to you (I actually think you think that everyone in the world except for yourself should live by YOUR standards of morality...even God if He exists) that says so much about you. :) So, the rest of your anti Yahweh spiel must be meant for the choir because it's not that good at all.
 
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Christians who think that the country needs to turn back to Jesus or whatever are just saying pretty things they heard from their parents...that is NOT how it is written will happen. There is no going back to whatever back to was...

Christians need to be tolerant. The opposite of tolerance is to be bigoted and it is morally wrong to be bigoted. That goes for both Christians and others, to not be tolerant is MORALLY WRONG (that means you java )Of course to refuse to make a judgement about an immoral action is to be a coward but a truly tolerant person does not stop from making moral judgments but does not wish to use power to force others to change their beliefs or actions. It is not our job to force morality on people. That includes abortion.
i agree with this. intolerance is morally wrong no matter what or who you do or do not believe in. i think we can all agree on that at least.
 
Cindy you should find comfort in the fact Java is gonna burn in hell for all eternity, I know I do, and I like Java.

"I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside” C.S. Lewis
 
Cindy you should find comfort in the fact Java is gonna burn in hell for all eternity, I know I do, and I like Java.

I accepted jesus christ as my lord and savior after the age of accountability....I'm good with baby jesus...What if one of the tens of thousands of other Gods were the right one? Based on the odds you have a better chance of winning the lottery than picking the correct deity to worship...just sayin...
 
but Jesus gives me the warm and fuzies

plus the bible is full of fulfilled prophecies

but it is your choice not to believe, but I will believe and worship my baby Jesus til the day I die. He is a great guy
 
but Jesus gives me the warm and fuzies

plus the bible is full of fulfilled prophecies

but it is your choice not to believe, but I will believe and worship my baby Jesus til the day I die. He is a great guy

Something written after a prophecy was fulfilled is not a prophecy, The Book of Daniel is a perfect example...the evidence indicates it was written well after the time the author claimed. It's like writing a "prophecy" claiming WWII will happen with so much detail it has to to be true. Of course I can write about the details of WWII in 2011 but it doesn't make me a prophet..it just means it already happened.
 
I accepted jesus christ as my lord and savior after the age of accountability....I'm good with baby jesus...What if one of the tens of thousands of other Gods were the right one? Based on the odds you have a better chance of winning the lottery than picking the correct deity to worship...just sayin...

Lol you realize "the age of accountability" if it exists is 20 right? I hate to say this but you can't reject God and be good with him at the same time. That was just my pipe dream. If so, you ran screaming into the safe arms of atheism at the first seed of doubt because it's too scary to stand where I am standing. I think it's more likely that you were never made aware of your soul. I don't think you're that cowardly to turn your back on something you once believed with conviction with so little thought.
 
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Something written after a prophecy was fulfilled is not a prophecy, The Book of Daniel is a perfect example...the evidence indicates it was written well after the time the author claimed. It's like writing a "prophecy" claiming WWII will happen with so much detail it has to to be true. Of course I can write about the details of WWII in 2011 but it doesn't make me a prophet..it just means it already happened.

lol! You've never read Daniel... your philosophy on history is so fucked up. Try thinking about that for awhile and see if you want to continue to apply it. brb gotta get oatmeal out of abby's hair...

you realize that only you would take that statement seriously because you want it to be so. No serious historian would take that you or that statement seriously. You've been duped.
 
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yeah

java keeps trying, but cindy is to smart for him

java will have a video for this, lol
 
lol! You've never read Daniel... your philosophy on history is so fucked up. Try thinking about that for awhile and see if you want to continue to apply it. brb gotta get oatmeal out of abby's hair...

you realize that only you would take that statement seriously because you want it to be so. No serious historian would take that you or that statement seriously. You've been duped.

Someone that thinks Glenn Beck is a "serious historian" should not be taken seriously.....just sayin...

How many A's did you get in graduate level history classes...just askin'. :) I'm six for six....
 
I was talking about professional historians. lol not some student. I don't know what this Glenn Beck nonsense is...come on. I was only suggesting a dilemma. You know that there is a method of sorting out to the best of our ability what has happened and what hasn't. That allows for Christianity and you know it. To not admit that is hypocrisy.
 
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The more I learned about the bible and history, the less I believed the bible. It was, after all, assembled under the authority and command of a pagan sun worshipper. Funny it came out so closely resembling the religion he already practiced and believed. Then it was "do or die" to everyone else. Naturally, after a hundred or two years it was generally and widely accepted by the masses in that region. Then spread throughout the world via sometimes ruthless and always relentless proselytizers.
 
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mathew 6:5
 
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mathew 6:5

Damn it you beat me to it
 
mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

lol I wonder what Jesus would think of a politician holding a huge prayer woodstock, and pandering to the religious for his own purpose. :confused: If I was a bitter cynic I would see this as a ploy to get votes.
 
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