Anyone here take tribulus?

[coldblue1955]

it's ok but the real deal is far better.

 

[Chaddycakes]

it's ok but the real deal is far better.

Lol im sure it is. Thanks for all the input guys I just need to stop being so lazy and put together a nice meal plan. I know im working out enough i do every body part 2 times a week. It just seems hard to go to school full time and be able to eat big. I think i might give the tribulus a try, you can find it pretty cheap on ebay. Optimum's tribulus is like 15 bucks for 100 servings. Thanks for all the input.

 

[swaptrex]

I just need to stop being so lazy.

so thats why you put potato cips in the fridge.....

 

[zips92]

Lol im sure it is. Thanks for all the input guys I just need to stop being so lazy and put together a nice meal plan. I know im working out enough i do every body part 2 times a week. It just seems hard to go to school full time and be able to eat big. I think i might give the tribulus a try, you can find it pretty cheap on ebay. Optimum's tribulus is like 15 bucks for 100 servings. Thanks for all the input.

Training enough is not your problem, training too much is. Training every muscle group 2 x week is too much unless you are on AAS (anabolic androgenic steroids) because they can help you recover much, much faster. You really need to cut back on your training frequency and focus more on hardcore intensity during your tarining sessions (NOT saying you don't do that now). Also, if you want to grow, try to get more sleep and rest/recover more, that's how you grow, not by overtraining.

To your original question, heavy_duty made a great post.....tribulus terrestris is not going to increase natural test levels much at all if somone is under 25 because endogeous testosterone production is so high. Tribulus and eurycoma longfolia jack is popular with AAS users because it does seem to aid in recovery following a cycle by restoring testosterone production sooner. But you have to keep in mind that following a steroid cycle, endogenous test leves are essentilly nil, and that's where these products can help, not when your test levels are already high!

If you are convinced to buy some, try to get some with an advanced delivery method like Biotest's or Nutrex. I wouldn't recommend normal capusles. Also, try to get approx. 30 grams of quality protein in your body every couple of hours throughout the day. This will do wonders for any athlete or someone in training.

 

[Lifterforlife]

Training enough is not your problem, training too much is. Training every muscle group 2 x week is too much unless you are on AAS (anabolic androgenic steroids) because they can help you recover much, much faster.

Actually, I believe just the opposite is probably true. Research shows for the natural bb, higher frequency/less volume is more advantageous. It is shown that no more damage is done to muscle training 3 days, even 7 days later.

On the other hand, many AAS users probably overtrain for just that reason, they think because using, they should train more often. Only the smart ones don't.

Effects of a 7-day eccentric training period on muscle damage and inflammation.

Researchers: Chen TC, Hsieh SS.

Institution: Department of Ball-Related Sports Science, Taipei Physical Education College, Taipei City, Taiwan.

Source: Medicine and Science Sports & Exercise 2001 Oct;33(10):1732-8

Purpose: This study examined the effects of a 7-day repeated maximal isokinetic eccentric training period on the indicators of muscle damage and inflammatory response.

Methods: Twenty-two college-age males were randomly assigned to eccentric training (ET) and control groups (CON). The initial exercise was 30 repetitions of maximal voluntary isokinetic eccentric contraction (ECC1) on non-dominant elbow flexors with Cybex 6000 at 60 degrees.s-1 angular velocity. The ET group performed the same exercise for the following 6 consecutive days (referred to as ECC2 to ECC7) after ECC1. Upper arm circumference (CIR), range of motion (ROM), and maximal isometric force (MIF) were measured before, immediately after, and every 24 h for 7 consecutive days after ECC1. Plasma creatine kinase (CK), lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), glutamic oxaloacetate transaminase (GOT), leukocyte counts, and serum interleukin-1beta and -6 (IL-1beta, IL-6) levels were assessed before; at 2 h; and at 1, 3, 4, 6, and 7 d after ECC1. Muscle soreness was measured before and for 7 consecutive days after ECC1.

Results: The ECC1 produced significant changes in most of the measures for both groups, with the exception of leukocyte counts. No indicators of increased damage were found from the second consecutive day of eccentric training to the 7th day for the eccentric training group.

Conclusion: Continuous intensive isokinetic eccentric training performed with damaged muscles did not exacerbate muscle damage and inflammation after ECC1. In addition, a muscular "adaptation effect" may occur as early as 24 h after ECC1, as shown by the ET group's performance for 6 consecutive days after ECC1.

The results of this investigation indicated that repeated bouts of the eccentric exercise performed on each of the following 6 days after the first bout did not affect recovery from the first training bout. This is in agreement with a substantial amount of other studies indicating that muscle adapts effectively to physical load even when the loading is frequent or even continuous. Keep in mind that we are only talking about the physical recovery of the muscle. We are not talking about performance.

 

[zips92]

Actually, I believe just the opposite is probably true. Research shows for the natural bb, higher frequency/less volume is more advantageous. It is shown that no more damage is done to muscle training 3 days, even 7 days later.

On the other hand, many AAS users probably overtrain for just that reason, they think because using, they should train more often. Only the smart ones don't.

Effects of a 7-day eccentric training period on muscle damage and inflammation.

Researchers: Chen TC, Hsieh SS.

Institution: Department of Ball-Related Sports Science, Taipei Physical Education College, Taipei City, Taiwan.

Source: Medicine and Science Sports & Exercise 2001 Oct;33(10):1732-8

Purpose: This study examined the effects of a 7-day repeated maximal isokinetic eccentric training period on the indicators of muscle damage and inflammatory response.

Methods: Twenty-two college-age males were randomly assigned to eccentric training (ET) and control groups (CON). The initial exercise was 30 repetitions of maximal voluntary isokinetic eccentric contraction (ECC1) on non-dominant elbow flexors with Cybex 6000 at 60 degrees.s-1 angular velocity. The ET group performed the same exercise for the following 6 consecutive days (referred to as ECC2 to ECC7) after ECC1. Upper arm circumference (CIR), range of motion (ROM), and maximal isometric force (MIF) were measured before, immediately after, and every 24 h for 7 consecutive days after ECC1. Plasma creatine kinase (CK), lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), glutamic oxaloacetate transaminase (GOT), leukocyte counts, and serum interleukin-1beta and -6 (IL-1beta, IL-6) levels were assessed before; at 2 h; and at 1, 3, 4, 6, and 7 d after ECC1. Muscle soreness was measured before and for 7 consecutive days after ECC1.

Results: The ECC1 produced significant changes in most of the measures for both groups, with the exception of leukocyte counts. No indicators of increased damage were found from the second consecutive day of eccentric training to the 7th day for the eccentric training group.

Conclusion: Continuous intensive isokinetic eccentric training performed with damaged muscles did not exacerbate muscle damage and inflammation after ECC1. In addition, a muscular "adaptation effect" may occur as early as 24 h after ECC1, as shown by the ET group's performance for 6 consecutive days after ECC1.

The results of this investigation indicated that repeated bouts of the eccentric exercise performed on each of the following 6 days after the first bout did not affect recovery from the first training bout. This is in agreement with a substantial amount of other studies indicating that muscle adapts effectively to physical load even when the loading is frequent or even continuous. Keep in mind that we are only talking about the physical recovery of the muscle. We are not talking about performance.

I don't know, it seems a little skewed if all they tested was elbow flexion after 30 repetitions on 6 consecutive days. Also 30 reps......hard to believe most folks training to gain muscular size and strength do 30 reps or less during a training regimen (I know there will always be exceptions, and someone will say they do 21's, as do I)

Also, let's say you squatted for several sets until you collapsed, then followed that up with deep heavy leg presses, and then maybe hack squats, and completed with walking lunges until you could no longer walk. I would like to see a natural bodybuilder do that for 6 consecutive days. I don't think your Taiwan study of someone bending their elbow for 30 reps once a day for 6 consecutive days is the same, if you do, then have at it and good luck.

For me I ain't buying it, and I feel you are setting a bad precedent for beginners or natural bodybuilders to overtrain. Problem with it is, many may not know any different and some may not agree because they have never trained any different. They may not be able to convince themselves they are overtraining unless they start training less (with more intensity), and rest/recover more to compare the results.

You may feel strongly about this, but this is the first time I have ever heard at any level that it works best to train an individual bodypart for 6 consecutive days. Now this entire issue may be a matter of semantics, because it could all depend on the definition of TRAINING. Playing basketball, golf or tennis for 6 consecutive days is not the same to me as hardcore weight lifting.

If per chance your theory was dead-on, and training the same bodypart for 6 consecutive days yielded the best results, if you could even do that, then you must be doing something incorrect IMO, and probably not training very hard. I don't like this advice at all, and I hope other natural bodybuilders do not either, but to each his own of course.

Also, you really went out on a limb by saying only smart AAS users do not overtrain........?

 

[Lifterforlife]

I don't know, it seems a little skewed if all they tested was elbow flexion after 30 repetitions on 6 consecutive days. Also 30 reps......hard to believe most folks training to gain muscular size and strength do 30 reps or less during a training regimen (I know there will always be exceptions, and someone will say they do 21's, as do I)

Also, let's say you squatted for several sets until you collapsed, then followed that up with deep heavy leg presses, and then maybe hack squats, and completed with walking lunges until you could no longer walk. I would like to see a natural bodybuilder do that for 6 consecutive days. I don't think your Taiwan study of someone bending their elbow for 30 reps once a day for 6 consecutive days is the same, if you do, then have at it and good luck.

For me I ain't buying it, and I feel you are setting a bad precedent for beginners or natural bodybuilders to overtrain. Problem with it is, many may not know any different and some may not agree because they have never trained any different. They may not be able to convince themselves they are overtraining unless they start training less (with more intensity), and rest/recover more to compare the results.

You may feel strongly about this, but this is the first time I have ever heard at any level that it works best to train an individual bodypart for 6 consecutive days. Now this entire issue may be a matter of semantics, because it could all depend on the definition of TRAINING. Playing basketball, golf or tennis for 6 consecutive days is not the same to me as hardcore weight lifting.

If per chance your theory was dead-on, and training the same bodypart for 6 consecutive days yielded the best results, if you could even do that, then you must be doing something incorrect IMO, and probably not training very hard. I don't like this advice at all, and I hope other natural bodybuilders do not either, but to each his own of course.

Also, you really went out on a limb by saying only smart AAS users do not overtrain........?

See, the very thing you state in your first and second paragraph is precisely the problem. Most folks overtrain badly. If doing 2 sets of an exercise damages a muscle, can you really keep inflicting more damage on it? Will it do any good? This is the crux of the matter, most folks train and tax the CNS and this is what they cannot recover from.

You say it precisely yourself, in your leg workout scenario. Do squats till collapsing? Need I say more? Overtrainng, taxing the nervous system, not the muscle. Then heavy leg presses, and then hacks till as you say you can no longer walk? Is this necessary? I would say this in fact is overtraining, you have long since stopped doing anything to the muscle, and are working the CNS.

And noone said to train for 6 consecutive days. 3 full body workouts....remember, the idea is more frequency/less volume. This has been shown time and time again to work.

As far as a bad precedent, I believe you my friend are doing much more harm. Telling anyone to train like you mention is doing noone any good.

 

[Lifterforlife]

Also, you really went out on a limb by saying only smart AAS users do not overtrain........?

Don't think so. I would be willing to bet all but the seasoned lifter when getting their hands on AAS immediately go to overtraining. The thinking immediately becomes I am doing AAS, so I should train harder and longer. This in fact will offset much of the advantage of the AAS.

AAS can definitely elevate your work capacity, but don't think for a minute you can't overtrain. They increase frequency/volume/intensity so much that they do themselves more harm than good.

Think about it, most athletes will solve a bad day by working twice as hard normally, and with AAS do even more.

 

[Chaddycakes]

Anyone have any suggestions then on how many times each body part should be worked in a week? Just once?

 

[Arniceous]

oh hell yea - every bb should get mine from Higher Power