Hair Loss, Parts I, II, and more

[quadrat]

2 other great anti-androgens:

Flutamide.
More potent than spironolactone.
At 1% concentration and right vehicle (Dermovan cream) there shouldn't be any problems with systemic side-effects.

Green tea extract.
Dual 5a-R inhibitor and an androgen receptor blocker. In addition it downregulates number of androgen receptors and is a insulin mimetic & antioxidant.

 

[[email protected]]

question? can you help me

Buff Doc,

I would like to start by letting you know that the information posted here by you and other participants is greatly appreciated as it has helped me to gain an understanding of male pattern baldness and treatments available - muchly appreciated.

However, I have a question for you.
I am from Australia; down here one of the main hair treatment businesses is called "Advanced Hair". They offer hair transplantation, as well as “laser treatment”.
Their theory behind the laser is that it is used to break up the DHT around the hair follicle, this along with the topical use of minoxidil, shampoo and tablets containing 1.6g of serenoa serrulata. The serenoa is an herbal extract; it apparently works by inhibiting the action of the 5-alpha-reductase.

My question is - have you heard anything about this type of treatment and just how valid it is? Personally my thoughts are that the minoxidil works, I am unsure about the serenoa extract, and personally I would have to question whether the laser is of any use at all.

Just to give you some idea of what this treatment is worth, I paid a student rate of AUD$2700 for a six month treatment. I am approximately four months through it, and haven’t noticed much change in my hair loss, in fact, as I sit here and write, I notice hairs falling onto the keyboard.

Any insight from any one into this treatment would be greatly appreciated!

 

[thankgodformexico]

Hit me,

I believe the serenoa is just saw palmetto extract available over the counter almost anywhere for probably cheaper than what they are charging. There is no evidence that it helps with MPB but some people do use it. I think oral as well as topical grean tea is a better choice herbally.

As far as I know, the laser "treatment" is pretty much all hype. I don't know if there are any studies on it either way, but I don't believe it's very effective at all.

I would suggest saving a lot of money and getting a rx for proscar, and or going the herbal route, and minoxidil is a must IMO. Might want to throw some nizoral 2% shampoo in there for some possible added benefit because it's pretty cheap. Start off using it a couple times a week, and I would stay away from hair loss "centers" unless you plan on getting a transplant which I wouldn't recommend at this time, with scientists possibly on the verge of better options in the next few years. THis is the advice I would give to anybody.

 

[PatBateman]

I thank you guys for the great info, but where is the proof that this "magical" treatment is less than 5 years away. I am a total skeptic and balding and am tired of all the hype and snake oil bullshit. Maybe there is a good treatment coming, but if everyone says 5 years, I bet it will be 10.

 

[buffdoc]

I pretty much agree with what TGFM has said. Serenoa is just SP's latin name. So far, anything to do with lasers and hair loss/hair transplantation has been a marketing tool; because it has the name "laser", ppl tend to believe it's the latest sexy, high-tech answer to our prayers. The idea of lasers breaking up DHT around the follicles is laughable.
As TGFM said, finasteride, Nizoral and minoxidil are your best bet at this point in time. I would add, though, that transplantation is not a bad thing if done properly. When cloning etc, become reality, then further density can be added. The question for men, especially young men, is to live with hair loss in the NOW, versus waiting. In other words, to be proactive or not. It really depends on the person and their degree of hair loss and how much it bugs them. Waiting for cloning doesn't change how one looks NOW.

 

[buffdoc]

I thank you guys for the great info, but where is the proof that this "magical" treatment is less than 5 years away. I am a total skeptic and balding and am tired of all the hype and snake oil bullshit. Maybe there is a good treatment coming, but if everyone says 5 years, I bet it will be 10.

Hmmm... I sense your frustration ;-)
Listen, cloning, etc is not "magical" any more than transplantation is. We have "good" treatments NOW, relative to 20 years ago. At one point in time, transplantation was unthinkable. Read the post below first of all.

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=2204306#post2204306

You'll see that this is coming from the research community, especially the Asians. It only progresses as fast as it progresses. But there's nothing snake oil or bullshit about it. What IS snake oil and BS are some of the clinical people out there trying to coat-tail on the IDEA of cloning, hair "multiplication", etc, to appear "ahead of the curve". Don't confuse the two.
We saw the same thing in the mid 90's with laser transplantation: sounded great in theory, was a total bust in clinical application.
You may be right, it may be ten years if they say five, but the basic science guys tend to be pretty conservative in their estimations. Their professional reputations hinge on it.
BTW, what kind of "proof" did you want? If it ain't here yet, it ain't here yet! ;-) Be a skeptic, by all means, but not a cynic. They're not the same.

 

[[email protected]]

Yeah I thought the "Laser" treatment was a bit dodgy.
As I was saying the other treatment they offer is transplantation, however instead of taking hair from your own head and repositioning it, they take the hair from donors. Is this the way that all surgeons perform this? Or is the hair taken from your own head and then replaced?
This may sound like a silly question but I am unsure exactly how it works.
I thought it would be a good idea to ask after getting stung by them with the “laser Treatment”

cheers

 

[buffdoc]

Yeah I thought the "Laser" treatment was a bit dodgy.
As I was saying the other treatment they offer is transplantation, however instead of taking hair from your own head and repositioning it, they take the hair from donors. Is this the way that all surgeons perform this? Or is the hair taken from your own head and then replaced?
This may sound like a silly question but I am unsure exactly how it works.
I thought it would be a good idea to ask after getting stung by them with the “laser Treatment”

cheers

Bro, I don't know what they're telling you, but at this point it's impossible to transplant others hair into your scalp. The body will reject it immediately. Only your own hair, from the permanent areas on the sides and at the back, will grow in the bald or balding areas.
This may be one of those scams where they use a polymer "second skin" and then place donor hair into the polymer. It's nothing more than a fancy hair weave, in reality.

 

[Anabolicum Mister]

There will also be a time period from when cloning becomes practical clinically and when it becomes practical financially. Add another few years.

 

[Maximus_xxl]

hi puffdoc

This is my first post so i'm hoping to get as much help from you as possible in answering my questions regarding hair loss.

It's known that proscar/finasteride will reduce the conversion of DHT by preventing the 5-AR enzyme from converting test into DHT. However, this drug does not help a bodybuilder who uses AAS to a great extent. A body builder who stacks Test and lets say an androgen, such as EQ for example, will only combat DHT converstion caused by Test but not the EQ. Therefore, a topical treatment such as Minoxidil should be used with proscar to prevent DHT conversion in the scalp. Also, it is known that Proscar will reduce DHT levels to a degree that might/will hinder gains of a bodybuilder since DHT is needed in muscle tissue growth. If i was to recomend something for a body builder i would say used minoxidil and nizoral. I would recomnd this because both drugs don't change the chemical blanace of DHT in the body but only blocks DHT from binding to hair folicils in the scalp since they are both topical. Also, no hindering of gains in the use of these two topical treatment since they dont reduce the levels of DHT.

Questions

1) does my findings make sence to you? if it doesn't please correct me

2) Since proscar doesn't work on the frontal hair line then does that mean the use of proscar during an AAS cycle will not prevent frontal hair loss?

3) will the use of proscar prevent anymore loss/thining at the hairline?

4) If my findings are right then a topical treatment such as minoxidil is a must to stop hair loss caused by an androgen. My question is when can someone start minoxidil if he/she is planing to take a test/EQ cycle. Also, when can such person stop the use of minoxidil since there will be no need for it as much as during a cycle because the androgen will not be present in big quantities post cycle and the use of proscar will continue. Please keep in mind the halflife od EQ and test (enanthate).

I hope that my questions are clear and understandable.

Thank you in advance