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DECA - Never again EVER !
- Thread starter TheStromba
- Start date
RG: Given your input wouldn't it be wise when using deca type products to use HCG a little more frequently? Say ever 4th week during cycle..
Nelson: I should have been more descript. Two weeks on 10mg AM Dbol combined with HCG therapy then roll onto the clomid is what I was aiming for. Yes it could draw out his recovery slightly but it might help prop him up until the HCG/Clomid gets going. Many people have had good reports doing this..
Nelson: I should have been more descript. Two weeks on 10mg AM Dbol combined with HCG therapy then roll onto the clomid is what I was aiming for. Yes it could draw out his recovery slightly but it might help prop him up until the HCG/Clomid gets going. Many people have had good reports doing this..
Spirited debate. I love it. So here goes.
RG: True, HRT is a last resort, but if his levels are that low, he may need it. HCG gets you up and going but at some point the HPTA must take over. If the HPTA isn't up to snuff, the HCG is just another temporary fix.
Clomid may supress too much estrogen leading to a more supressed libido.
And finnaly, VITEX has got to be the "Bad Idea of The Decade." The shit raises progesterone! The last thing someone recovering from Deca needs is more progesterone.
RG: True, HRT is a last resort, but if his levels are that low, he may need it. HCG gets you up and going but at some point the HPTA must take over. If the HPTA isn't up to snuff, the HCG is just another temporary fix.
Clomid may supress too much estrogen leading to a more supressed libido.
And finnaly, VITEX has got to be the "Bad Idea of The Decade." The shit raises progesterone! The last thing someone recovering from Deca needs is more progesterone.
macrophage69alpha
New member
Nelson Montana said:
misconception of the decade.... that progestins and progesterone are the same.
progesterone is essential for normal male sexual function and libido
progestins are used for CHEMICAL CASTRATION
note: vitex if properly prepared will have little impact on progesterone (it does not raise progesterone, some of its plant parts contain progesterone)
THeMaCHinE
New member
Something I feel was helpful on the latest cycle I did with deca in it was to only run the deca for the first 5 weeks (with test); then bump up the test dosage and run it alone another 4 weeks. The deca is out of the system this way when it comes to post-cycle.
The whole premise behind Vitx has about as much validity as the premise behind Myostatin.
Forget the fact that this was cococted by the T-mag cew and they have zero credibility. The "theory" that vitex may lower estrogen is such a stretch it's beyond fathomable. Vitex is given to women for post menapausal symptoms to elevate progesterone and estrone. It was also taken by Monks to ....you guessed to, reduce sexual desire! Any wonder it's called "CHASTE" weed? It's also been known to be given to women in Middle Eastern nations to remove sexual thoughts. (Sick mother fuckers).
The geniuses at T-mag got a hold of one study that suggested if progesterone is elevated it may lower estroge. True. But you're replacing one female hormone with another. And besides, estrogen is more significant to libido than progesterone. Pro-hormones elevate estrogen and some people experience a temporary spike in libido when blood levels are highest. Deca, on the other hand, is a dick killer.
Some other things they don't tell you.
Vitex is used to increase lactation. (Can you spell G-Y-N-O?)
Vitex lowers FSH.
Vitex is classified in herbal and medical texts as an "Anti-Androgen."
Vitex is a scam of the worst sort.
Forget the fact that this was cococted by the T-mag cew and they have zero credibility. The "theory" that vitex may lower estrogen is such a stretch it's beyond fathomable. Vitex is given to women for post menapausal symptoms to elevate progesterone and estrone. It was also taken by Monks to ....you guessed to, reduce sexual desire! Any wonder it's called "CHASTE" weed? It's also been known to be given to women in Middle Eastern nations to remove sexual thoughts. (Sick mother fuckers).
The geniuses at T-mag got a hold of one study that suggested if progesterone is elevated it may lower estroge. True. But you're replacing one female hormone with another. And besides, estrogen is more significant to libido than progesterone. Pro-hormones elevate estrogen and some people experience a temporary spike in libido when blood levels are highest. Deca, on the other hand, is a dick killer.
Some other things they don't tell you.
Vitex is used to increase lactation. (Can you spell G-Y-N-O?)
Vitex lowers FSH.
Vitex is classified in herbal and medical texts as an "Anti-Androgen."
Vitex is a scam of the worst sort.
macrophage69alpha
New member
actually vitex was discussed here long before t-mag.. it will not lower estrogen..
the issue here is PROLACTIN.. which vitex has been consistantly shown to reduce.
Vitex will not lower estrogen
the whole plant does contain higher levels of progesterone, which can be suppressive (thus the reason for calling it chasteberry)
HOWEVER.. Since extraction of the constituent that is dopaminergic is not being done at this point it is a temporary measure.. its a herb..
which is why bromo is a good choice
you will find a considerable amount of anecdotal evidence to support this here and on AF.
though as above it should be considered as an "emergency" measure.. not a normal one.. true pharm grade dopaminergics and mao-b inhibitors being MUCH preferred.
the issue here is PROLACTIN.. which vitex has been consistantly shown to reduce.
Vitex will not lower estrogen
the whole plant does contain higher levels of progesterone, which can be suppressive (thus the reason for calling it chasteberry)
HOWEVER.. Since extraction of the constituent that is dopaminergic is not being done at this point it is a temporary measure.. its a herb..
which is why bromo is a good choice
you will find a considerable amount of anecdotal evidence to support this here and on AF.
though as above it should be considered as an "emergency" measure.. not a normal one.. true pharm grade dopaminergics and mao-b inhibitors being MUCH preferred.
Spectre said:RG: Given your input wouldn't it be wise when using deca type products to use HCG a little more frequently? Say ever 4th week during cycle..
Yes for sure bro. I recommend HCG during the mid weeks and the last two weeks .Trouble is most guys won't do that much hcg. You could even take it every day for the whole cycle at a very low dose that does not desensitize the testes to natural LH.
RG
Nelson Montana said:
Yes.....but I think normally guys have trouble recovering test because the testes are small and not very responsive to natural levels of LH..this is what my endochrinologist says anyway.....He seems to think that they will eventually respond and grow back to normal size but in the mean time hammering them with high doses of HCG for a breif period will get the job done sooner.
But LH may be permanently screwed up so then HCG would not be helping in long term recovery and then its time for test replacement.
RG
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