Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

psychedout said:

Question. I tweaked my back on the parallel rows on Monday. I don't think I will be able to deadlift tomorow which sucks.

Anyways to the issue at hand. I find doing the rows explosively really hurts my lower back, and not in a good way. I can do one-arm db rows paralell to the ground with no low back pain though. Or I could go lighter but move the weight less explosively.

What do you suggest madcow2?

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I think you might have a technique issue. Doing a movement explosively is not jerking the bar from the floor or anything. It's applying a steady increase in acceleration throughout the movement so that the bar starts slow but continues to move faster and faster.

Look at the pics below. Your lower back should not be compromised even when pulling from the floor. The first move is to arch and it is done under control.

http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=498&view=findpost&p=9976

Look at cleans and snatches. Very fast but they are all done slow and smooth from the floor and there is never a jerkiness just smooth maximal acceleration of the bar.

If you have all of this covered we are left with a weak lower back in relation to the muscles around which caused injury. Not a good thing which is one of the reasons everyone stresses core work.

Either way, it's a setback. Heating pad for now. Advil for the gym. Take it easy for a bit and see what happens. Don't screw with a back injury. Make sure it's nothing bad first. Sorry to hear this man, I know you were pumped up as hell. Regular rows (still 90 degrees though) will work fine. Accelerating the bar is best. You don't have to put it on the floor each rep. Not as good but if this lets you train around it, it's better than not rowing (if this proves a wash and still puts you in pain, you can use a machine - that's why they are there).

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

|3ossman said:

I have no competitive history in PL, just trying it out for fun. Winning would just be an added bonus. The meet has both tested and nontested classes. Ill make a push to get down to 181, but if I get stuck in 198 ill deal with it. For the junior group (20-23), i have respectible lifts for both 181 and 198, but would obviously fair much better in the 181 class.

What would you recommend i do during the peaking/intensity phase to increase my max singles? PM me with your response if you dont want to post that on here.

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Cool, much better situation to be in. My next thought would be don't overly worry about the weight class. Do what you want to do, whatever class you end up in you end up in (but if you are only a few pounds away I doubt I'd resist the urge to make the lower weight).

Anyway, you generally back into your training cycle from a compeition date - we'll just make it simple. So closest to the date would be a lot of time off. Maybe training with high intensity and very low volume just before the meet (singles and no more than 2x per week). You'd also be hitting some singles in the weeks leading up to the date along with doubles and triples before that. Basically you continue the theme of the 3x3 and just continue to raise intensity while lowering volume/frequency so that you show up at the meet used to handling weights close to 100% and fully rested and ready to max the lifts.

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Madcow2 said:

Cool, much better situation to be in. My next thought would be don't overly worry about the weight class. Do what you want to do, whatever class you end up in you end up in (but if you are only a few pounds away I doubt I'd resist the urge to make the lower weight).

Anyway, you generally back into your training cycle from a compeition date - we'll just make it simple. So closest to the date would be a lot of time off. Maybe training with high intensity and very low volume just before the meet (singles and no more than 2x per week). You'd also be hitting some singles in the weeks leading up to the date along with doubles and triples before that. Basically you continue the theme of the 3x3 and just continue to raise intensity while lowering volume/frequency so that you show up at the meet used to handling weights close to 100% and fully rested and ready to max the lifts.

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Just what i was thinking Madcow, about both the weightclasses and training leading up to the meet. I dont know what kind of experience you have with bench shirts, but how do you recommend i incorporate that into my training? I was thinking if im cutting the volume in the intensity phase even more by hitting doubles and singles, would it be a bad idea to add a few sets of boards (2-5) and heavy negatives (these do wonders for my CNS training) with my shirt. I know im probably pushing it here fucking with your program, and going outside its main objective, as youve already stated its not a PL program. Thanks in advance Madcow!

At that point, you wind up with a dedicated PL program and you are better off starting from scratch since you know your body best and which assistance exercises are beneficial to work in (heavy negatives are fucking taxing to the CNS BTW - make no mistake, but with a shirt I can see them getting you accustomed to the shirt and lowering heavy weight). A few pages back there's a post entitled "Beyond the 5x5" or some such where I talk about laying out training plans as a macrocycle (generally a year but that assumes a championship of some kind so 6 months or even less is fine to work with) composed of mesocycles (3-6 weeks) and microcycles (1-2 weeks). Generally a macro = 1 year, meso = 4 weeks, micro = 1 week. So for PL, the 5x5 is best used as a base foundation in the offseason or between comps. For comp preparation there's just better stuff to do to tweak the foundation power and get everything you can out of your lifts. The 5x5 is really just general athletic conditioning for strength and size (originally cleans and high pulls were in place of rows and deads respectively). The only reason I perscribe it to BBers is because it generates some outrageous hypertrophy and most of them are more concerned with building a big muscular foundation than they are with adding a bit of refinement to their physique. Plus, it works accross the board with so many athletes. Basically one of those magic elixir tonics. So it's tremendous for BBers or athletes who aren't competing in a lifting sport but for straight PL or OL, it just isn't setup for that.

Anyway, on bench shirts - you do realize that isn't a real bench right? You might as well stick two midgets in a big loose shirt and have them help push your arms up. <sorry, too funny, I couldn't resist some bench shirt humor - I don't actually subscribe to that view I just like to be non-PC>

Also - just so everyone remembers, this is not "my" program. I had absolutely nothing to do with the design. It's taken from people far far more qualified than myself. All I did was cut/paste and bring it here. Granted I spend a lot of time explaining the methodology, but that is neither here nor there.

Madcow2 said:

Anyway, on bench shirts - you do realize that isn't a real bench right? You might as well stick two midgets in a big loose shirt and have them help push your arms up. <sorry, too funny, I couldn't resist some bench shirt humor - I don't actually subscribe to that view I just like to be non-PC>

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HAHAAHA...i know what your saying funny guy. But if you want to be competitive you gotta do what you gotta do ya know.

As far as the rest of your reply, i knew youd say that in a way. And your definatly correct. I think im going to run the program the way its designed, pick one day to practice a little with my shirt form, and just wing it at the comp. Like i said just for fun, and the experience, and winning could be an added bonus. After this meet in june ill use this 5x5 for size and strength, then switch over to a better designed PL program. Thanks for the replys and all the help Madcow!

Either you have a weak lower back or explosive rows just don't agree with your lower back in which case you shouldn't do them that way.

Have you been regularly training your lower back?

psychedout said:

Question. I tweaked my back on the parallel rows on Monday. I don't think I will be able to deadlift tomorow which sucks.

Anyways to the issue at hand. I find doing the rows explosively really hurts my lower back, and not in a good way. I can do one-arm db rows paralell to the ground with no low back pain though. Or I could go lighter but move the weight less explosively.

What do you suggest madcow2?

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Madcow has already posted some variations to alleviate the strain on your back but I'd like to add that you have a long time ahead of you and you'll be able to run this program or similar ones many, many times before you're done. Just try and get what you can out of each cycle and see what it brings.

I started on this program knowing that I had a weak lower back, didn't have a clue how to deadlift properly and from week one dropped military press in favour of seated shoulder press on a Smith machine which is a much inferior exercise. I also did my BB rows simply as best I could given the state of my back. This next time around I know my back is better and stronger and I'll put the MP back into the program and try to get closer to ideal on the rows.

I know this doesn't help you immediately and I'm just trying to offer some perspective. Injuries are part of what we do and they always compromise our workouts to some extent. Getting 90% from a program cycle due to an injury instead of 100% is not a disaster since the 100% was merely the ideal we were shooting for and there's always next time. If you're lucky it'll just be a one-week blip and you'll have forgotten about it in a month's time.

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

How close to failure to you go on this routine ?

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Anthrax said:

How close to failure to you go on this routine ?

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On these last couple of weeks Ive failed on the last rep of some of my "record" lifts-ie-Squatting 365x3, i got 2. I think the way Madcow explained it, at this point in the Routine (Intensity Phase) the important thing is increasing the weight, notsomuch as getting ALL reps, like is so important during Volume Phase. Hope that helps.
Bionic