The knee past the toes rule

[anthrax]

What do you think of that ?
(if you're lazy, just read the bold text))

Effect of knee position on hip and knee torques during the barbell squat.

Fry AC, Smith JC, Schilling BK.

Human Performance Laboratories, The University of Memphis, Memphis, Tennessee 38152, USA. [email protected]

Some recommendations suggest keeping the shank as vertical as possible during the barbell squat, thus keeping the knees from moving past the toes. This study examined joint kinetics occurring when forward displacement of the knees is restricted vs. when such movement is not restricted. Seven weight-trained men (mean +/- SD; age = 27.9 +/- 5.2 years) were videotaped while performing 2 variations of parallel barbell squats (barbell load = body weight). Either the knees were permitted to move anteriorly past the toes (unrestricted) or a wooden barrier prevented the knees from moving anteriorly past the toes (restricted). Differences resulted between static knee and hip torques for both types of squat as well as when both squat variations were compared with each other (p < 0.05). For the unrestricted squat, knee torque (N.m; mean +/- SD) = 150.1 +/- 50.8 and hip torque = 28.2 +/- 65.0. For the restricted squat, knee torque = 117.3 +/- 34.2 and hip torque = 302.7 +/- 71.2. Restricted squats also produced more anterior lean of the trunk and shank and a greater internal angle at the knees and ankles. The squat technique used can affect the distribution of forces between the knees and hips and on the kinematic properties of the exercise. PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS: Although restricting forward movement of the knees may minimize stress on the knees, it is likely that forces are inappropriately transferred to the hips and low-back region.
Thus, appropriate joint loading during this exercise may require the knees to move slightly past the toes.

 

[super_rice]

yeah i think it was posted back afew months ago.. acutlaly, i think it was on fortified iron i'm not sure

anyway, good read

 

[wnt2bBeast]

i dont care what this says..you wanna squat big the knees do not move over the toes..the knees move out to the side!!!!think of spreading the floor with your feet, so the weight is on the outside of the foot...

 

[supreme]

It all depends on your goals and style of squatting. Olympic squats focus on the depth of the squat for it is the neceassary catch position at the bottom of the lifts. The movement of the knees forward is based on posterior chain flexibilty, especailly at the ankle and the lever lengths of the femur and the tibia. The taller the athlete the more the tibia will move forward.

Powerlifting squats only have to break parallel, the wider the stance, the greater the base of support which allows the weight to be handled more by the glutes & hams. By having a wide stance and pushing the knees outward they also decrease their height, thus requiring the squat to travel a shorter distance.

Both are effective ways of squatting, I use & teach them both. they have different applications to different sports & people

S

 

[anthrax]

"pushing the knees outward" ?

You mean the knees are not aligned with the hips and the feet ?
Wouldn't that put some additional stresss on the patella ?

 

[wnt2bBeast]

"pushing the knees outward" ?

You mean the knees are not aligned with the hips and the feet ?
Wouldn't that put some additional stresss on the patella ?

your going to have to decide what style of squatting you want to do and what works best for you..heres a ood article about boxe squats..all the principles listed in here hold true when you remove the box and squat without one...
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls9.htm

 

[yehoha]

A few months ago the instructor in the gym told me that i'm doing the squats in a wrong way as my knees were coming past my toes. I'd been doing heavy ass to grass squats for years and i had no injury or pain. But i listened to that instructor, searched in the internet and i read lots of artciles about this rule. Then i started following this rule. Months later my knee began hurting while squatting. I switched back to my good old squat form and the pain stopped. I think when you squat, the natural position of your knees is past your toes. If you try to change this natural position you hurt your knee. This is my personal experience.

Additionally, when you apply this rule, you put lots of stress on your lower back. I'm 6'2'' and in order not to let my knees pass my toes i've to bend to the front. There is no other way to be in balance. And when you do this you train your back more than your quads. I feel like i'm doing good mornings.