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Zimbabwe tells white farmers to leave

W

Weapon X

New member
Zimbabwe tells white farmers to leave
7: 03 AM AEST August 20

Zimbabwe's minister for lands told white farmers to immediately leave their property, to make way for black settlers, in an interview with the state-run Sunday Mail.

"Commercial farmers have refused the concept of co-existence, and some of them have even gone on to beat up resettled farmers," Joseph Made told the paper.

"That is unacceptable and we now require all those in areas gazetted for resettlement to pave way for settlers."

The Zimbabwe government has gazetted 5,327 white-owned farms totalling 9.5 million hectares for seizure, or more than 90 per cent of all white-owned land.

Made's statement came after last week's upsurge in violence on farms around the northern town of Chonhoyi, where violent mobs ransacked about 50 white-owned farms.

White farmers have won a Supreme Court ruling that declared the government's resettlement scheme unconstitutional and that ordered police to evict thousands of pro-government militants who have forcibly occupied white farms since February 2000.

President Robert Mugabe's government has ignored the ruling and pushed ahead with his scheme, which aims to redress inequities in land ownership left from the white-minority colonial government.

The farm violence has had a strong political colouring, closely tied to the government's crackdown on dissent ahead of presidential elections due in April.

Mugabe is expected to face his toughest challenge ever from Morgan Tsvangirai, leader of the two-year-old Movement for Democratic Change (MDC).

http://www.excite.com.au/news/story/aap/20010820/07/international/zimbabwe-land-afr.inp
 
Kharam is a bitch if your a decendant of a colonial dutch farmer in Zimbabwe!
 
Ah, I see: Fascism is fine if it's perpetrated by blacks against whites.

I thought all the Liberals on this board would be outraged since a minority (whites in Zimbabwe) is being oppressed.
 
Weapon X said:
Ah, I see: Fascism is fine if it's perpetrated by blacks against whites.

I thought all the Liberals on this board would be outraged since a minority (whites in Zimbabwe) is being oppressed.
Click to expand...

Didn't say it was right...but it's more like payback is a bitch from an historical perspective.
 
Since Africa has always had a burgeoning slave trade, perpetrated by blacks against blacks, using your own reasoning above, would you say that Europeans coming to Africa and buying slaves was just paybacks against a people who had been enslaving each other for generations?
 
and now guess what.....blacks wont be able to run these farms. It has always been the same. Take a look to all these former colonies... a total ruined. Well UN should consider a desert storm stle operation to kick these tribal bastards out....
 
Sure, but since Africans have been doing this capturing and enslaving of each other for centuries, that issue gets a little more complex.
I don't know of any history of Blacks enslaving Whites in large numbers occuring anywhere. Anyone?
 
Weapon X said:
Since Africa has always had a burgeoning slave trade, perpetrated by blacks against blacks, using your own reasoning above, would you say that Europeans coming to Africa and buying slaves was just paybacks against a people who had been enslaving each other for generations?
Click to expand...

Didn't say it had anything to do with slavory either.

Just oppression by the ruling class is all...white, black, yellow, pink. I don't care.
 
Txcollegeguy & Varnsen, you are saying that the Moors (who were black) took alot of slaves when they invaded Spain and Portugal? Fascinating...
 
Weapon X said:
Txcollegeguy & Varnsen, you are saying that the Moors (who were black) took alot of slaves when they invaded Spain and Portugal? Fascinating...
Click to expand...

but they were then kicked out and punished.....around 1492....
 
Why would a country be stupid enought to get rid of its productive people. My prediction is that it'll be a basket case like the rest of Africa in a few years.
 
Africa is abundant in its natural resources. The abundance of resources like diamonds and coal have attracted prospectors for centuries.

The effect of British, Dutch and other foreign colonization has ruined and crippled the strength of many African nations. The exploitation and manipulation of the people of Africa has been perpetuated by "divine right" arrogance and assumed superiority.

The colonization of many African countries has weakened the ability for substantial economic and social growth. The diamond trade for example is closely linked to government corruption and civil unrest. DeBeers and other commodities corporations have funded their agendas by draining resources and controlling national governments with broken promises.

The profits being made by these corporations have yet to benefit the nations of Africa. These companies do not reinvest in the local economy, but rather leech off the resources and weaken the economy.

I cannot sympathize with the white settlers who have murdered and stolen to gain their profits. The exploitation of Africa has gone on far to long. Africa will remain affected by colonization for many years to come. Revolution will be necessary to bring great change and prosperity for native Africans.
 
Putting aside the issue of natural resources for a moment, let's take a look at African culture and society.
Ick, not a pretty picture, eh? Rampant heterosexual AIDS, cannibalism, witch-burnings. Yup, they'd be doing just fine if it wasn't for evil ol' Whitey!
 
Weapon X said:
Putting aside the issue of natural resources for a moment, let's take a look at African culture and society.
Ick, not a pretty picture, eh? Rampant heterosexual AIDS, cannibalism, witch-burnings. Yup, they'd be doing just fine if it wasn't for evil ol' Whitey!
Click to expand...



I'm not saying that Africa is absent of problems. 'Rampant heterosexual AIDS," is a direct result of insufficient healthcare and education amongst the citizens of Africa. "Cannibalism" and "witch-burning," are far and few in between and are tied into cultural and tribal practices and cannot be associated with the economic and social anxieties that face the continent of Africa
 
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just think...
If whites never came to africa, the people there would still be worshipping rocks and trees and cutting each others heads off. We also wouldnt have any blacks in the states. Hmmmmm....

No :fro:
 
Weapon X said:
Putting aside the issue of natural resources for a moment, let's take a look at African culture and society.
Ick, not a pretty picture, eh? Rampant heterosexual AIDS, cannibalism, witch-burnings. Yup, they'd be doing just fine if it wasn't for evil ol' Whitey!
Click to expand...


they're dying slowly, they're exterminating their own race... let them play that game if they enjoy it. Be sure I never sent a penny nor I will to those Africa help programs... I prefer help my brothas out there in Canada instead of a bunch of dumbass.....
 
Salami, I've edited your response here, b/c of your derogatory references to Blacks, and your offensive comment to Mr. ?.

Ryan.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Weapon X said:
Ah, I see: Fascism is fine if it's perpetrated by blacks against whites.

I thought all the Liberals on this board would be outraged since a minority (whites in Zimbabwe) is being oppressed.
Click to expand...


WEAPON
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY. IF THIS SHIT HAPPENED TO BLACKS IN SOME OTHER COUNTRY, THE WHITE PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY (AS WELL AS THE COUNTRY IN QUESTION) WOULD BE CALLED RACIST AND WHAT NOT.

THIS SYSTEM SUCKS. IT CATERS TO THE BLACK MAN WHETHER THEY ARE MINORITY OR NOT IN ANY COUNTRY.

JUST FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE MANY BLACK FRIENDS AND HANG WITH THEM EVERYDAY. I'M JUST SICK OF THE BAD APPLES LABELING ANYONE NON-BLACK A RACIST. GET A FUCKING LIFE PEOPLE!!! STOP BLAMING YOUR PROBLEMS ON US AND GET A FUCKING EDUCATION AND JOB. UNTIL YOU DO THAT, YOU CANT SAY SHIT ABOUT ANYONE ELSE MAKING LIFE HARD FOR YOU!!!


KAYNE
 
TheSalami, Manny78, MP5


Its hard for me stomach some of the ignorant comments stated by many of the repliers to this thread. I shouldn't be surprised by these comments. Many of the replies have no supporting information or rational thought behind them.

Obviously members such as TheSalami, Manny78, and MP5 lack adequate knowledge of Africa's history and its current economic, social and environmental status to provide logical and accurate information to the thread. Adding emotion to already outlandish and defunct statements shows the inability of some members to participate in constructive and balanced discussions. These offensive replies are nothing but empty redoric spewing from hateful hearts and confused minds.

Many of you lack the sophistication and class to properly articulate your opinions without offending anyone. I understand many of you may use this website to vent self-hatered and other insecurities that are misguided. Your ignorance is apparent and thus speaks volumes of your character.
 
Well, lets think about it.

We can't go apportioning blame. That is for small children and your gods. I do not take responsibility for the actions of my ancestors and do not feel that anyone, be they of any creed, colour, religion, political order or what have you should be held responsible for what theyre for-fathers did.

The white farmers in South Africa have been very successfull and are highly efficient in theyre practices.
They have been there quite some time and most were born into an environment where apartheid is or was the norm. Many of these white farmers have been murdered or worse or have been driven from their homes. President Mugabe has as much as sanctioned this; he is therefor a murderer in our time.

Political change began in South Africa very slowly but the transformation has been quite impressive considering the state of affairs before. I believe however, that it was pressure from white activists, white governments if you wish, that really changed things...people like those now being murdered, evicted, raped and tortured.

I believe it also true that those taking hold of this land do lack the expertise to farm it as efficiently as the previous occupiers; this is not down to any form of racial stupidity, just a matter of education which, the invaders mostly lack and I would say the previous white regime must take some responsibility for.

My point of contention would seem to be; Mugabe has sanctioned murder. Why has this been permitted?
Why no outcry? Why no sanctions against this monster? If we have crimes against humanity, why has no one arrested this sack of malevolence? Two wrongs do not make a right....if we can agree on this one point then we must agree that what is happening at this time is wrong. I am not saying that change should not occur...just that that change should not involve politically sanctioned murder.

Thank you...I will now shut up
 
That great "peaceful" man, Nelson Mandela advocated burning all the farms to the ground. If all the fucking "unicorns n' rainbows" Liberals would actually study issues before picking their pet causes (i.e. - Mandela, Mumia, etc.) maybe they'd stop supporting tyrants on the basis of their skin color. Mugabe is a tyrant.
African culture is prehistoric.

(And before the flames start, I am not applying this to all person who come from Africa. Most of the people whom I have met who have come from Africa within their lifetime seem to me to be extremely smart and sensitive people. Perhaps that is why they had the sense to flee their homeland. The Pacific Northwest is slowly filling with a large Ethiopian population. The Ethiopians are working hard at whatever jobs they can get in order to provide a better life for their families than they could have in their homeland. I say more power to them.)
 
Yep, now I know what your saying...it takes 27 years in prison to make a president...it's almost like a cooking program....

Place Mandela on a baking tray and leave on low heat for 27 years...

Meanwhile leave wife to simmer in own fat, to add flavour, gradually bring to the boil...no need to reheat once this is done


Remove Mandela, and what do you have? A president of an African nation...amazing.
 
I think it would be a good idea to send them here to Atlanta. We could use them here. Why would they want to live in Zimbabwe anyhow... remember Zimbabwe WAS Rhodesia... then it was handed over to left wing commie scumbags. If I was from Rhodesia my ass would be outta there in a hurry. That was a sad and losing battle. The same as Palistine... but they are still being treated like crap... and good old uncle scam is helpend the demise of the Palistinian race.
I say, Let them all live together in harmony... if they don't want white farmers there.... send them here. I would love to see them here in Atlanta... just farming the land.
sorry about the political post.... what is that doing on here anyhow???
 
Mr. ? PLEASE KEEP POSTING.

Your responses show a great deal of knowledge and intellect.

This board needs more people like yourself....

Ryan.
 
ALERT! ALERT! The Thought Police are here! If you disagree with them, your posts will be modified. If you agree with them, you will be encouraged to post more.
ALERT! ALERT!

This is such fucking bullshit. Good job, RyanH... OF BEING A FUCKING DESPOT. :mad:
 
No WeaponX: some of you have done a great job of insulting many other users through derogatory name-calling.

You can get your point across w/o resorting to such cheap mechanisms of arguing. I could care less if you disagree with me.......but name calling is not needed, particulary when Mr? used absolutely no offensive comments towards you whatsoever.

Ryan.
 
Let the arguments speak for themselves, petty man. Nonsense will be seen as nonsense without your questionable "wisdom" to guide all the poor lost souls. :mad:
 
....and I quote....

'Many of you lack the sophistication and class to properly articulate your opinions without offending anyone. I understand many of you may use this website to vent self-hatered and other insecurities that are misguided. Your ignorance is apparent and thus speaks volumes of your character.'

Now I was hoping that this did not apply to me Ryanh but in my opinion, and it is only my opinion, this is the equivelant of name calling....as in 'ignorant bigot' or 'fascist' or whatever.

I would also suggest that there is nothing wrong with argument...it is a very highly refined technique and one I believe in.

Weapon Xs' comment, though I do not often agree with him, and he could not give a rats arse if I did or not, is valid, a post simply saying 'oh post some more, I agree with you, you are clever and so knowledgable' says a) You are so clever and thus disqualifies you from being able to judge whether he is (clever) or not and b) ' I agree with you' but only 'cuz I lack the facility to know exactly why, is actually not helping your position...and you were doing so well!

Mr? needs to qualify his point as he has grandiosly generalised the whole of the African continent and I thought we were being a bit more specific than that...
 
Good points, SleepingFist.
I agree the discussions and arguments. It was by listening to arguments and weeding out the nonsense for myself that I have been able to form my own opinions about many things. That's why I am able to disagree with many thing on the Republican platform as well as the Democrat's.
 
This is funny. This type of thing is happening in Israel, in East Europe, even in Ireland. But when it happens between 2 COLORS (remember, we are all the human race, just different tribes) it really gets peoples blood boiling.
The statement that slavery has been a part of African culture is true. It has been a part of EVERY culture, from the Native Americans to the Chinese, to the Turkish. The word slave comes from "Slavs".The Byzantine Empire made slaves from the Slavic peoples.

"just think...
If whites never came to africa, the people there would still be worshipping rocks and trees and cutting each others heads off. We also wouldnt have any blacks in the states. Hmmmmm.... "

Dude! Please read some history before you make a comment like this about an entire continent. Africans were the first to forge metal, introduce monotheism, established trade routes as far as China, introduced mathematical theories, music, advanced agriculture techniques. The city of Timbuktu in the kingdom of Mali had a full university complete with books, scrolls and damn accurate maps, and this was in the 11th century!

Sorry to rant,peoples, just trying to edjumakate the ignorant.
 
furious said:
Dude! Please read some history before you make a comment like this about an entire continent. Africans were the first to forge metal, introduce monotheism, established trade routes as far as China, introduced mathematical theories, music, advanced agriculture techniques. The city of Timbuktu in the kingdom of Mali had a full university complete with books, scrolls and damn accurate maps, and this was in the 11th century!

Sorry to rant,peoples, just trying to edjumakate the ignorant.
Click to expand...

Don't hand us that revisionist history bull. Now in schools the African sare claiming all of the advancements and inventions of Egypt. Egypt is part of teh African continent, but the people there are a different racial group and were way ahead of most cultures thousands of years ago. The modern-day people of African descent trying to latch onto Ancient Egypt's coattails is an atrocity.
 
i wish i remembered what it was that you edited out. the fact is mr? is not a smart person. id go as far to say he lacks independent thought and probably works in the fast food business flipping burgers. the fact is that the blacks take over the white farms and they dont know shit about farming. the country is fucked up so i dont see it as racist to call them idiots. they are shitting on successful white business just because they are using the whites as scapegoats for their shitty lives. i saw the president interviewed and he is a racist scumbag that deserves to die. HE HAS GIVEN FULL PARDONS TO ALL CRIMES AGAINST WHITE FARMERS EXCEPT FOR MURDER. which means that beating whites almost to death is legal and supported there. to support that is a demonstration of what an idiot mr? is.
 
WeaponX... are you telling me that the people from Palistine are not of a diffrent race than the others living in Isreal? The good people from Palistine are from Persian decent... they share no traits with the jewish people living in Isreal.
That would be like saying people from Mexico share the racial traits as those from Spain. No Sir... I am not trying to start an argument.. but I have strong feelings for the subject of Palistine. So I have met and listened to the stories of these people.... In closing.. you are right.. the race itself would be called Persian. But they are very diffrent from their opposition.... unlike the Catholics and Prodestants of Northern Ireland.
 
Weapon X said:


Don't hand us that revisionist history bull. Now in schools the African sare claiming all of the advancements and inventions of Egypt. Egypt is part of teh African continent, but the people there are a different racial group and were way ahead of most cultures thousands of years ago. The modern-day people of African descent trying to latch onto Ancient Egypt's coattails is an atrocity.
Click to expand...

Where do you get your info from? Mali was a Sub-Saharan kingdom, many thousands of miles away from Egypt, I was not referring to Egypt. I will have to look up the information on who wrote this, but it was a DUTCH explorer who documented Timbuktu, not an African.
The Egypt you see today is far different from the Egypt that was around 2500 years ago. After numerous Arabic invasions and climate changes, the land is now settled by the Arabic people, just like South Africa is settled by Caucasians. Ever wonder why the noses of the Sphinxes were shot off by Naploeans men? Cause they resembled AFRICANS.

"the fact is that the blacks take over the white farms and they dont know shit about farming."
The Spanish went after certain tribes knowing they had advanced agricultural techniques. They went after certain tribes knowing they had metal-working techniques.

Again, I'm just trying to offer a little more edjumakation on the subject. I'm perpetually a student and still learning, but it seems others have such strong opinions on events thehave little knowledge of.

I think what is happening to the Caucasian settlers is very sad. We as the human race have learned absolutley nothing over the last 3000 years about peaceful co-existance. I would have hoped that Mandela would have learned to turn the other cheek, not employ Hammurabi's Code (sp?)
 
Safari Scholarship Reinvents History
by Ilana Mercer

Hollywood is usually the one to peddle historical fiction, which the public doesn’t hesitate to accept as Bible from Sinai. For some time now, Hollywood has been getting stiff competition from unexpected quarters. Now, coming to an African Studies department near you is some startling information: The venerable Greeks, the founders of Western Civilization, stole their philosophical and scientific know-how from Egypt. Egypt, and not Greece, is the fount of western tradition.

In an unchronicled trip, Aristotle sojourned to Egypt with Alexander the Great, snuck books out of the Alexandrian library, and slapped his name on these books, parlaying them as his own. He wasn’t alone. Socrates, Pythagoras and Plato were plagiarizers in their own right. Is there no end to the antics of those Pale, Patriarchal, Bad Boys?

You may never have given much thought to the skin color of the ancient Egyptians. Artifacts at least indicate that they were a diverse people, more Benetton than black. So it must come as a surprise that the Egyptians were actually Black Africans. Elizabeth Taylor had no business playing Cleopatra. The Macedonian of the Ptolemaic bloodline was really a long limbed Black woman. Even the Sphinx had Negroid features. That is until it fell prey to one of the first ‘documented’, racially motivated, acts of vandalism. The facial crater the Sphinx stoically bears, comes from being socked on the nose by Napoleon’s racist troops. There go those Bad Boys again.

This mythistory is called Afrocentrism. It’s promoted by a number of undistinguished African academics, and taught to students from grade school through the university level all over North America. Accordingly, Africans have an ineffable claim against Europeans. For how does one put a price on the mugging of a civilization?

Unlike the equally nonsensical Holocaust denial, which immediately raises establishment and media ire, this remedial revisionism has been met with little objections. For the most part, rebutting this bunk has fallen to a Greek Classicist by the name of Mary Lefkowitz.

Afrocentrism circulates in the form of books such as Black Athena by Cornell professor, Martin Bernal, Stolen Legacy by George G. M. James, and the school tracts known as the Portland African-American Baseline Essays.

For ‘scholars’ whose mission it is to promote a view of African superiority, Afrocentrists are indeed doing a poor job. The Science Baseline Essay claims no less that "thousands of years ago Egyptians"- cum blacks "flew in electroplated gold gliders, knew accurately the distance to the sun, and discovered the Theory of Evolution. According to the Senegalese Afrocentrist, Cheikh Anta Diop, Africans invented everything from Judaism, to engineering, to astronomy, including dialectical materialism.

One question: These folk persistently aver that practically every reprehensible occurrence in history is an excrescence of the Great White and his linear thinking. Put differently, if "Eurocentric" culture is so odious, why do Africans want to lay claim to it? By coveting it, aren’t Afrocentrists providing the ultimate validation of Western Civilization?

Entire civilizations, moreover, are not the item of choice for the kleptomaniac. As Mary Lefkowitz points out in Not Out of Africa, "If the Greeks had learned their philosophy from a large theoretical literature produced by Egyptian writers, surely some trace of that literature would have remained in Egypt".

Don’t look for congruity where there is only African chauvinism and the approval of the lickspittle, postmodern, pseudo-scholars of the academe.

The methodology of the Afrocentrist consists in neglecting chronology, treating myths as history, and using citations fraudulently so that these don’t support the crux of the argument. In Afrocentric works, hypothesis morphs into fact, authorities that don’t bolster a thesis are recruited in its service, and absence of proof becomes evidence of conspiracy. Dogged repetition of the lie is key, as are the vicious ad hominem attacks leveled at the few scholars who dare confront the evidence.

Not least of the jarring deceptions is a reference to the Egyptian Mystery System from whence the Greeks allegedly stole their philosophy: the reference comes not from an authentic historical text, but from eighteenth-century French fiction and Freemasonry. Furthermore, the city of Alexandria was founded only after Alexander’s conquest of Egypt, and the library from where Aristotle allegedly pilfered his genius was founded after the philosopher’s death.

Mythical thinking thrives and is nurtured in a culture which eschews objective truth. Where once there was an understanding that there exists a reality independent of the human observer, students are now taught that ‘truth’ is a social construction, a function of the power and position a person holds in society.

Casting fact and objective truth as mere opinion, or as no more than a perspective, is a handy bit of egalitarianism: if nothing is immutably true, then all positions are but a matter of preference and can be said to be equally valid. This standardless intellectual vortex is the scaffolding for Afrocentrism; the public school system its perfect foil.

John S. Mill pointed out that "a general State education is a mere contrivance for moulding people to be exactly like one another." Indeed, public school indoctrination goes a long way towards explaining how orthodoxies like multiculturalism, radical feminism, and state granted entitlements couched as human rights, become articles of faith to most people.

This intellectual chaos results from the chokehold government has on education. Pedagogues have in many instances approved of Afrocentrism because it is seen as the means through which to increase self-esteem among young Africans. Why not? Haven’t other self-styled victim groups – notably natives and women – had their suppurating historical wounds tended with similar curricular concessions? The raison d’être of public schooling lends itself just as well to teaching Holocaust Denial in schools in order to allay the guilt that plagues students of German descent.

Adapted to the public school system, history is doomed to be more palliative than factual.

If black students want to be taught that their apparent superior perceptual gifts come from an abundance of melanin in their skin, that’s okay. But the free market – not the public teat – ought to be the proper place to exercise this educational option. Other Hollow Earth Society movements fund their own flights of fancy. So should Afrocentrists.
 
Weapon X....fuck me....is this just an excerpt from a book or a stand alone text? I did not realise that people could twist perception mooooore than I suspected...please help...discovering lots today.
 
Fist, it's a stand-alone article, but you can find tons of articles disputing the new, revisionist Afro-centric view of things all obver the web at respectable sites.
Hell, 8 years ago I was in NYC hearing about how the Greeks "stole" all of their philosophy from Africa!
 
I've studied the classics, greek, sufist, non-rational, rational, mystic, metaphysical and damn me...I have never heard of this crass, self proliferating backward crap....I am not a racist, I am not supremecist, I am a historian of sorts and student of the theosophical (not phylisophical or theological) disciplines, but this self agrandising pap that people put forward to make a singular race important is HORRIFIC!
I have always known that the clasical Egyptologists views are bollocks and now, built on assumed bollocks, I find a whole cultrue has decided, under the guise of the pseudo intellectual assumption that they have a right to fuck with an already fucked history they fucked with simple facts! We know Jesus was a black man, are we now going to hear he was actually from Rhodesia? Guyana? Gabon? OK, I accept the black man has suffered under the white rule in many areas but I was not responsible for it and neither was the Truth.
Malcolm X was right, the fool cannot immitate the wise man but the Wise man can immitate the fool...when the fuck will they stop impersonating and give us all a fucking break...
 
WeaponX

The article written Ilana Mercer is highly subjective and noticely biased. The author provides no imformation to counter what is accepted as historical fact. The author uses general arguements without structure to articulate the claims. The article is nothing more than a generalized editorial promoting those ideas.

History itself is subjective and often biased. History is fact interpreted by man to serve a purpose. The history of Africa as well as many other nations can be viewed in many different ways. All ancient civilizations have provided the world with knowledge and substance. However the legacy of Africa is less disputed than more modern and current events. The progression of the ancient world is a direct result of numerous enfluences. Each one serving a intricate role in the development of the world.

I do appreciate you searching for imformation to support you opinion.
 
"accepted as historical fact" by whom????
As noted above, I've been looking at this argument for the past 8 years or more. And it's still revisionist history.
You can't rewrite the pasrts of history you don't like, as the Neo-Nazis are learning. I guess you've got something in common with those other revisionists.
 
ok, now I understand...

it IS a deal of white vs black, not of an opressed minority vs the opressors. The Serbs vs Croats vs whoever would never have garnered such replies, methinks.
Interesting.
I was initially trying to shed a little history, actual history documented by Eurpoean writers, no less, not to instigate anyone into a rage.
I stand by my original statement that the white settlers having to move is wrong. It's wack.
I also stand by my statement that Africa has a rich history and contributions that cannot be disregarded.

Whew! this topic is helping my debating skills.:) I haven't lost my temper once, haha.
 
Three points

Weapon X: I have a degree of contempt for Blavatsky, she sited more pap than doris stokes and not once touched upon the true essence of Theosophical understanding, if she had we would not know who she was, so no I am not down with her. If you want to know the exact reasons why PM me....the list is long and no one will know what we are on about...as bloody usual or there would be no arguments...excuse my arogance.

Secondly, it is not a white vs black issue, it is a truth versus rediculous issue. I will be positive and argumentative and play devils advocate UNTIL IT THREATENS TRUTH. I do not profess to know what the truth is, but there is a black and white area we can walk between that essues bollocks. You cannot ethically warp the perception of people and expect a tolerant, enlightened society to come from it....and you cannot expect anyone, no matter how PC to tolerate of what Ilana Mercer suggests notable Black African authors propose as truth.

Mr ?I have a bit of a problem and maybe you could help me out (I ma not suggesting a lobotomy); if I may quote....

'The author provides no imformation to counter what is accepted
as historical fact.'

I need you to help me with the hystorical fact bit......maybe I don't want to make a whole load of effort but...and I do agree there is a time line issue with the three supposed accepted Alexandria timelines...but I want a bit more form you than the same rhetoric we have from the author of the article.....I also want to understand what you mean about the legacy of Africa being less disputed etc....I don't know your position here and it makes understanding your point difficult...could you illucidate? You so far have generalised...I need you to put me on the spot....I do not know if you have any specifics for me to work with? I am not a surgeon butif I was, I think knowing my arse from my elbow would aid me in a heart transplant......help?
 
WeaponX

As Furious stated, the history of Africa has been documented by European scholars who aknowledge the contributions of Africa. One would instantly assume that European scholars would contorte and twist history in their favor.. This may be so for many historians, but the majority of historians promote the evidence that shows Africa's role in the development of Eurpoe and other parts of the world.

I don't believe in reinventing history. I do believe in the accurate representation of the truth. As I stated before, history has been re-written to serve political agendas and mold opinions. How do we know who is providing accurate interpretation? However, it's easy to see who is manipulating the truth for their own benefit.
 
Mr.? - Why can't we pin you down on specifics? What contributions from Africa (not Egypt)?
What historians?
What do you disagree with?

Your vagueness, pomposity, and contempt are not substitutes for a good argument.
 
MR.? said:
WeaponX

The article written Ilana Mercer is highly subjective and noticely biased. The author provides no imformation to counter what is accepted as historical fact. The author uses general arguements without structure to articulate the claims. The article is nothing more than a generalized editorial promoting those ideas.

History itself is subjective and often biased. History is fact interpreted by man to serve a purpose. The history of Africa as well as many other nations can be viewed in many different ways. All ancient civilizations have provided the world with knowledge and substance. However the legacy of Africa is less disputed than more modern and current events. The progression of the ancient world is a direct result of numerous enfluences. Each one serving a intricate role in the development of the world.

I do appreciate you searching for imformation to support you opinion.
Click to expand...

hahaha. did anyone else notice that mr? spells information "imformation". what is he 3 years old? and has anyone ever seen such a general statement with no relationship to the actual discussion? mr? do you even know whats going on over there? do you support the president there who is supporting a group of blacks that call themselves "war veterans" (even though most are too young to have been in any war) that go around beating whites and stealing land? do you realize that the whites there are citizens of zimbabwe just as much as blacks are citizens of america? you have no knowledge of anything and no independent thought. you are the perfect person to support someone like jesse jackson or al sharpton.
 
I also wonder why RyanH is not deleting his posts since he keeps attempting to insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with him.
He is empty words and hot air pomposity.
 
i would rather his posts not be deleted (mine neither). its funny how he is trying to make intelligent statements while he doesnt even know how to spell the word "information". i think its great having this guy as your main opponent in a debate. it makes it very difficult to lose. besides the fact that he has shown no knowledge of the actual situation. he just makes blanket statements that have clearly been beaten into his head by people like al sharpton.
 
TheSalami,

First of all, I would like to thank you for noticing my spelling errors. I will make a more conscious effort to correct my spelling mistakes in the future.

Your comments pertaining to WeaponX's thread lack substance and stray away from the issue you at hand. I find your personal attacks towards me humorous and entertaining. Thank you so much for providing comic relief with your antagonistic remarks.


WeaponX,

Many of the statements I made pertaining to this thread may seem generalized and biased. However, I have yet to view any remarks that can stand alone as significant fact including mine. However, I will prepare a response or thread with cited works to help articulate and support my views on this subject.
 
well at least you admit the fact that you are incapable of spelling elementary school level words correctly. i look forward to your next post because you are clearly going to try to make it actually pertain to the situation in zimbabwe. please dont post a mile long article just the least you have to in order to prove your point. i want to know why you support what zimbabwe is doing. good luck kiddo!!!!
 
I just added that the moors have also been in Portugal... They did enslave many natives, as they fought them for many years... And they too were enslaved... But for many years they also coexisted peacefully with the natives, and indeed the populations in southern Portugal and Spain still have alot of characteristics that differentiate them from the rest of the Iberian Peninsula´s population... They are mixed...
And, i have to add, they were far more developed then the europeans, by that time...
 
RyanH, Mr.?, I normally refrain from flaming people,
but you two NEED TO GET LABOTOMIES!!!!.

Have you ever seen dead bodies?
Bullet-ridden corpses?

I have. Needless to say you two are talking ABOUT
HUMAN LIVES. Its easy to discuss somebody
alse far away but what if that person were YOU?????

What gives the Zimbabwe president the right to decide who lies
or dies?

This IS NOT THE DARK AGES, its the 21st Century

Nobody can condone the killing of people just to favour the
back majorty.

In my eyes, the Zimbabwe president should be remanded into
custody and charged with murder.

He's a ZEALOT plain and simple.

He needs to be REMOVED.

And trust me, he will be soon.

Godspeed
 
Fonz.....

I haven't commented on this topic at all.

I've kept my opinion private.

I've only intervened to halt the insults thrown at Mr.?

Ryan.
 
TheSalami,

You have consistently stated that I support the governmental actions of Zimbabwe. I disagree with many of the actions deemed necessary by Zimbabwe officials.

However, we cannot deny or forget how European settlers acquired land and resources within Africa. Murder, rape, war and other atrocities were tools used to conquer Africa. Remember, I do not support the actions currently being exercised to regain control by African nationalists. I believe that violent action will only hinder the progress of Zimbabwe for all citizens whether they are African or European.
 
so what do you support? do you support getting rid of the whites? what atrocities by whites are you talking about? you think the farmers are responsible for actions of people in the past? i really dont know about whites taking over african nations except for south africa so feel free to educate me. i dont see other african nations run by whites so i dont know what your talking about. also as far as i know south africa is quickly heading into the shitter now that the whites arent running things. if you look at the problems in africa it always seems to be black on black. i dont see the whites as the problem its just the stupidity of the people living there.
 
by the way, i dont think for a second you could come up with any specific information about colonists abusing blacks in africa without looking it up now. i doubt you could even name 5 african nations off the top of your head.
 
nuff hypocrisy

Go back a mile and a half and I said...no man is responsile for the actions of his ancestors...Mr ?, when you state you cannot forget or deny the way white settlers aquired the land what you are really saying is they, generations later, their offspring deserve to die. Come on man, I have no problem with admitting that history exists and shit happened, but if you are using it to condemn men and women whose only sin was to be born then you are wholly beneath contempt. If a child is born from a rape do you just kill it...'oh sorry Mr Freshly born Kid but your dad was a rapist' then grab it by the ankles and blat its head in against a wall?

You come over as quite rational, probabaly only slightly more verbal than me or less, not sure, I suffer from sesquiliadailianism more than most, but you can't say what you say and expect anyone to take you seriously if you think what it sounds like you think...damn that hurt.
 
TheSalami,

I support only peaceful means to heal the wounds of Africa. There are many problems facing the contient of Africa, but they will only be solved if both sides can come together and present each other with ideas and methods to better Africa for everyone.

I understand why you don't believe some of the statements I made. Here are a few websites which may help provide you with a better understanding of African history so that we can contiue this debate.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/index.shtml

www.allafrica.com ............will provide more up to date information on the current status of Africa

www.fordham.edu/halsall/africa/africasbook.html ..........great sourcebook of information providing arguements from all sides.
 
jesus man, im not about to read the entire history of africa. every continent has had its ups and downs. there have been tons of countries destroyed by other countries and people massacred all over the world. since you seem to think whites have ruined africa how about just posting a link where i can read about that specific topic. i think there is a lot more black on black war in africa than there is whites killing blacks. show me something that proves me wrong.
 
TheSalami,

I cited those links to provide legitimacy for my claims of African history. If you are not willing to read the history of Africa then your opinion loses strength with me.

You are right that all nations have problems and that native Africans have played an equal role in the current status of the continent.
 
listen, i am not about to read a continents entire history for this discussion. this is thread is devoted to the current situation in zimbabwe. do you know anything about the history of zimbabwe? i doubt that you do. i also doubt that you have read those sites that you posted links to. if you want to support your belief that whites are responsible for africas problem then post a link to information on that topic. as far as i see there is tons of civil war all over africa and its pretty much all black on black. no need to go over the entire history for this if you just stick to the topic we are discussing.
 
Consistentcy and modernism

Friends ,
first of all I think that it is a great thing indeed that ordinary folks such as ourselves are discussing real issues such as these (and on a bodybuilding site). Funny that I should finally have something to agree with Weapon X on , but I wonder if he would be willing to apply the same standards of justice to Israel.


In 1967 the International War Crimes Tribunal held sessions in Stockholm and Roskilde, in Denmark, to hear evidence on the conduct of the war in Vietnam. Invitations to the American government had been ignored. To many people it seemed a ludicrous situation: a tribunal without any power investigating a conflict in which its own sympathies were very clear. But there was a precedent: the Nuremberg War Trials had also assumed the right of judgement. And it had been a US Supreme Court judge who had said at Nuremberg: ‘If certain acts and violations of treaties are crimes, they are crimes whether the United States does them or whether Germany does them. We are not prepared to lay down a rule of criminal conduct against others which we would not be willing to have invoke against us.’
The Tribunal merely took America at its word. The evidence it heard was from historians, scientists, journalists, American soldiers and Vietnamese civilians. Its findings were of political connivance at unjust war, of wholesale attacks on civilians, hospitals and schools, of torture of political prisoners, of calculated disruption of the landscape and social structure of Vietnam.
Since 1967, Bertrand Russell has died and the world has heard of ‘Pinkville’.

For those who do not know , Russell was an absolute genius , who spoke three languages at the age of three, became a British MP and Lord and wrote both "The Philosophy of Mathematics" and one of my favourite books of all time "The Conquest of Happiness". He also might have been the most honest politician since Jesus Christ (and indeed might have given him a run for his money).
Cheers.
 
In short, Mandinka, I don't think the sitch is at all analagous:

1.) There was never a nation called "Palestine."
2.) There is no people called "Palestinians." They are Arabs asking for land which has been inhabited by Jews for thousands of years.
Truth be told, I'm not into discussing this any more, as the last thread on which this was discussed got deleted as being to offensive and controversial as all the Jew-haters came out of the woodwork.

You can do some reading here, though: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22564
 
Hi X,
I won't bash on about this , my post only mentioned Israel since it is a very controversial war-torn area in which ridiculous things take place on a daily basis. But the World's most prominent power displays a very sympathetic stance to their treatment of the Arabs.

I'll let you into a secret as well, I hate Jews almost as much as I hate Arabs , which is not at all. It is how one acts not what one is that defines them as monstrous and objectionable.

Back to the topic , Mugabe did very badly in the last general election in his country , although he is a billionaire he refuses to lend money to his own people. His treatment of the whites is not technically racist though - it is based on greed of power - his policies are very popular amongst the very poor in Zimbabwe - thus ensuring his longevity.
I heard Mark Mobius (head of the largest venture-capital fund in the world) speak on the topic of debt cancellation recently ,which Mugabe is of course insisting on. Mobius was of course correct in his assertation that Mugabe and his cohorts were directly responsible for the accrual of a large portion of those debts through ridiculous military spending (as well as pocketing large sums for himself) and could see no reason why Mugabe would discontinue such policies in any case.
 
Ahem, time for my two cents...

While I think Zimbabwe's President Mugabe is a tyrant and a despot who is using the land issue to hang on to power and divert attention from his failure as a President, the issue of land ownership and the problems that Africa has today as a result of colonial rule must be addressed in a radical way.

The land that these white settlers 'own' was stolen from the people and must be returned to the people. Most of Africa's other problems are imported from colonial rule and Western influences. I'm sure all those arms dealers in the West are making a killing on all those dirty wars going on in Africa - especially in Congo.

hardgainer (my two cents)
 
Oh, Hardgainer, I suppose that you're willing to leave Australia so that it may be returned to the Aborigines??
Puh-lease, every land was taken from some group of people who couldn't hold onto it.
 
Hardgainer ,
Actually the British government was engaged in arragnements to settle that issue with Mugabe's government before the land seizures. I think the idea was that the people as a whole were gonna be compensated via aid packages , sounds fair(er) to me.
 
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