Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I swear to god if it's not one thing it's another. Over the past couple weeks my right elbow has started to hurt me more and more. It's not that bad, I mean I just did my chest/tricep workout pretty good, but it's more of a nuisance than anything else. It sems to hurt the most on pushing exercises, but in particular on tricep pushing exercises. What the hell is this from, and how can I help heal it?? I mean I can't really stretch my elbow that effectively. Please help, I just started my cycle and don't want anyhting to be wrong with me.
WTF-Now Elbow Pain!!
- Thread starter tzan
- Start date
Is this pain kind of on the outer knob of the elbow? If so it likely tendonitis(often referred to specifically tennis elbo). I had it so bad last winter in my left elbow I couldnt curl a 20lb dumbell. I figured it would go away but it just kept getting worse and worse.
The bad news is there is no fast fix but the sooner you get treatment the sooner it will get fixed. The good news is it is easily fixed. First things first, the pain is often due to minor tears in tendon/ligament fibers, this irritation causes swelling and in turn pain. Most peoples (including most doctors) will tell you to ice it and rest it as well as take NSAIDS. While these do work to releive pain I can speak from experience they do nothing to heal the injury and more often than not actually prevent healing. The inflamation is an essential bodily function in repairing damaged tissue and when you circumvent it with medication you greatly slow or even prevent healing. For the average person this may not be a big deal but for those of us that push iron preventing the healing from taking place only means that in future workouts we are likely to cause yet a little more damage and the viscious circle progresses and things get worse from week to week.
Head over to prolonews.com and see if you can find a prolo doc in your area. It worked wonders for my elbow. Since then my back has acted up as well as the opposite elbow so I am getting them treated now.
The bad news is there is no fast fix but the sooner you get treatment the sooner it will get fixed. The good news is it is easily fixed. First things first, the pain is often due to minor tears in tendon/ligament fibers, this irritation causes swelling and in turn pain. Most peoples (including most doctors) will tell you to ice it and rest it as well as take NSAIDS. While these do work to releive pain I can speak from experience they do nothing to heal the injury and more often than not actually prevent healing. The inflamation is an essential bodily function in repairing damaged tissue and when you circumvent it with medication you greatly slow or even prevent healing. For the average person this may not be a big deal but for those of us that push iron preventing the healing from taking place only means that in future workouts we are likely to cause yet a little more damage and the viscious circle progresses and things get worse from week to week.
Head over to prolonews.com and see if you can find a prolo doc in your area. It worked wonders for my elbow. Since then my back has acted up as well as the opposite elbow so I am getting them treated now.
I'm begining to feel that dumbbells are to blame for alot of elbow and shoulder injuries. Especially if you train using low reps, you're pretty much forced to jerk the db into position for the lift unless you have insane rotator cuff strength. It's a shame too, becuase db movements are arguably more effective than their bb counterparts, but the connective tissue damage is real. I know one guy who was a former strength coach at the college level who blames heavy db presses for his degenerated rotator cuff. According to him, it isn't so much the movement itself as the act of getting th db's into place.
It might be a little late now, but my joints feel alot better in the morning now that I use flaxseed oil religously.
It might be a little late now, but my joints feel alot better in the morning now that I use flaxseed oil religously.
Heavy dumbells could play a large roll in damaging the connective tissue, but thats something that can easily and effectivly not only be repaired through prolo but actually strengthened to boot. So many people have shoulder surgery where cartiledge is removed from the joint. Now why in the hell would you remove cartiledge? Because its rubbing and causing pain? Thats like having a door where the hinges have come loose and instead of tightening the hinges, you simply make a bigger opening for the door so it will close. A simplistic representation for sure, but tearing out cartiledge does not FIX the underlying problem and hence the joint will never heal and why so many people never actually have a full and painfree recovery.icelandic said:
If you have aching joints etc, I highly recommend an alternative method of treatment before going under the knife.
Alot of times surgery is done when damaged cartiledge is floating around inside a joint after being detached by an injury. Yeah, you're right about going under the knife, only do so after all other options have been exhausted. I find it rather odd that someone can injure themselves in the weightroom bad enoungh to require surgical intervention. Thats one reason why I strongly oppose explosive movements in the highschool athletic setting. BTW what is "prolo" ?
I can understand having floating debris removed but I still think surgery is an uneeded approach. If the stability of the joint gets repaired the body will take care of the loose tissue on its own over time.
Many cartiledge injuries are due to joint laxity. Strains and sprains to tendons/ligaments cause joints to become sloppy and this allows for improper joint movement and wear and tear. Many injuries the body will heal on its own. The most common exceptions are athletes who dont want downtime and thus always under stress due to theri activity. Or those that simply are looking to stop the pain and in doing so stop the healing.
Prolo=prolotherapy. Its a treatment used to stimulate the healing process of tendons/ligaments by injecting a solution into the damages tendons/ligaments and in turn promotes the bodies natural healing process. After treatment you can usually get back to normal exercise schedule within 2-4 days. For example for my severe tendonitis which drastically affected all my lifts it took 4 treatments, usually 4 weeks apart. During this time I only missed a couple workouts immediatly after treatment and the injury that didnt heal on its own was goaded into healing with minimal down time. Often time with surgery or other means you miss weeks on end and then still never fully recover.
Visit prolonews.com for a lot of helpfull articles specific to certian areas as well as a Dr locator.
Many cartiledge injuries are due to joint laxity. Strains and sprains to tendons/ligaments cause joints to become sloppy and this allows for improper joint movement and wear and tear. Many injuries the body will heal on its own. The most common exceptions are athletes who dont want downtime and thus always under stress due to theri activity. Or those that simply are looking to stop the pain and in doing so stop the healing.
Prolo=prolotherapy. Its a treatment used to stimulate the healing process of tendons/ligaments by injecting a solution into the damages tendons/ligaments and in turn promotes the bodies natural healing process. After treatment you can usually get back to normal exercise schedule within 2-4 days. For example for my severe tendonitis which drastically affected all my lifts it took 4 treatments, usually 4 weeks apart. During this time I only missed a couple workouts immediatly after treatment and the injury that didnt heal on its own was goaded into healing with minimal down time. Often time with surgery or other means you miss weeks on end and then still never fully recover.
Visit prolonews.com for a lot of helpfull articles specific to certian areas as well as a Dr locator.
ZostrixHP applied 4x per day every day
Warm up A LOT
ibuprofen 4x per day (keep inflammation down)
widen your grip on your squats
ice
heat
rest
B True
Warm up A LOT
ibuprofen 4x per day (keep inflammation down)
widen your grip on your squats
ice
heat
rest
B True
PatBateman
New member
when doing presses with db, I simply rest them on my knee in a hammer position and kick the knees up to get the db in place. HAven't had any rotator problem so far.
I can gurantee if you keep inflamation down with ice and ibuprofin you will be hampering the healing process greatly, sure you will feel better but your just masking the pain and if you continue to lift hard and heavy with injured tendon/ligaments your just doing additional damage and futher masking of the problem which will sooner or later result in amuch more serious injury.b fold the truth said:
For such a bunch of big tough guys I find it rather ironic how many cant handle a little pain from inflamation, expecially when that pain is the road to healing and recovery. Instead far too many people today seek to cure the symptom (ie pain) and ignore the underlying problem(ie tendon/ligament damage).
Zyglamail said:
Hmmmmm...come train with me for a few weeks...hard, heavy, intense, always...and then choose to never use ibuprofen and ice.
I can't imagine any doctor who would suggest that you NOT keep inflammation down to help the joint heal quicker. Just let it be inflammed??? You can't be serious...it is NOT going to heal while it is inflammed. I can't imagine you or anyone else just training through pain...and if you have I highly doubt that it was any kind of SERIOUS pain. Who knows though...you may be one of the tougher men on Earth and I may be a big wuss...
I am a competitor who can not take time off for a small injury. I find a way to keep training, work around the injury, and be smarter in the end...till then...ice, ibuprofen, icy hot...and I will keep getting bigger and stronger.
B True
b fold the truth said:
On the contrary, most doctors dont treat injuries, they treat pain and symptoms. Pick up ANY decent medical text that covers the healing cascade and you will see inflamation is an essential part of healing. You circumvent inflamation with NSAIDS/ice you circumvent healing. I took my kids to the local museum last spring and the had an exhibit on the human body and a neat little interactive display covering the healing process laid out with cute little cartoons and such so a younger person could relate. The healing process is clearly linked to inflamation and is thuroughly documented, its not rocket science and is tought in junior high.
Now, dont confuse muscle soreness with chronic pain. Ive had chronic tendonitis so bad that I had to stop lifting. I took a couple weeks off loaded up on ibuprofin and aleeve and I felt like a million bucks. First session back in the gym, it started throbbing like I never gave it a break and it simply continued to get worse. I do not advocate "lifting through the pain" if it is severe and does not seem to heal. If and when that occures masking the pain and circumventing inflamation and hence healing is going to do more long term damage than good.
Now, in tzan's case he is stating his pain is getting worse and worse which to me indicates it is not healing. Its of course tzan's decision which path to choose but more often than not, inflamation is not the problem, its the symptom of an underlying problem so simply dealing with the symptom as you suggest rarely is a long term fix but instead a short term bandaid.
For a little more info on the healing cascade, here is a little power point presentation from the Cardiovascular Reseacrh Group.
http://www.shef.ac.uk/~md1pw/mbb334/Lecture-10.ppt
http://www.shef.ac.uk/~md1pw/mbb334/Lecture-10.ppt
Well, the same rules apply, if you can stand it continue to work out etc, but if it continues to get worse, I highly advise you ease up on training and give it some time to heal. Dont stop training because training actually helps circulate blood and all the healing elements it carries, but definatly lighten the load and avoid anti inflamatories to give it time to heal. If it persists and just wont get better on its own or you simply tired of waiting for it to heal prolo is something I would look into.tzan said:
I myself have a hard time backing off training for any length of time, call me impatient, so I chose prolo for my chonic pains and so far its has worked in everyone and I only miss a couple workouts a month.
I hear ya Zyg on the not wanting to back off onthe training. I'm 2 weeks into my cycle, so I deffiantly don't want to stop now. I'm going to do as you said and continue to lift hard with prolo being a worst case scenerio option. What would be better ice or heat and when should I ice it or heat it??
Ice will constrict blood flow and reduce inflamation, it will make it feel better but it is not beneficial to healing and will actually hinder the process. Now, most docs as I have mentioned feel successfull when the pain is gone and for the average person they are happy with being pain free, largely because performance inst an issue. FOr those of us that live athletic lifestyles when we choose the route of comfort we sacrifice athletic ability because the injury heals much slower. Heat on the other hand should actually aid in healing and may offer some releif but it may also cause more discomfort. I just had prolo done tues on my elbow, back and foot. It was some sore shit yesterday and elbow was blown up like a ballon. It feels much much better today and my back muscles have actually relaxed due to the inflamation in the tendons/ligaments taking up the slack in my spine allowing the muscles to relax. If healing is your ultimate goal, then deal with the pain and avoid exercises or weights that make it very uncomfortable. Heat may aggrivate it from a pain standpoint but will aid in healing. The biggest problem with these types of injuries while on cycle is strength increases dramatically which puts additional stress on the tendons/ligament.
I am not going to sit here and argue with you and I believe that we are arguing about something different anyway...
You also seem a lot more intelligent than I am too...
I have bicep tendonitis from time to time and I refuse to just take off from training because of it. My elbows hurt often also... I do not choose to train through it or stop training...I do what I can to get through my workouts. That includes ice, heat, icy hot, zostrixHP, ibuprofen, etc... As long as I can keep the pain away MOST of the time through those methods...I can always remove them slowly and be fine without them... It seems as if I can keep the inflammation down to a minimum then it starts to heal.
B True
You also seem a lot more intelligent than I am too...
I have bicep tendonitis from time to time and I refuse to just take off from training because of it. My elbows hurt often also... I do not choose to train through it or stop training...I do what I can to get through my workouts. That includes ice, heat, icy hot, zostrixHP, ibuprofen, etc... As long as I can keep the pain away MOST of the time through those methods...I can always remove them slowly and be fine without them... It seems as if I can keep the inflammation down to a minimum then it starts to heal.
B True
Im not trying to put you down B fold, your a great asset to the board and your veiws are very common, even in the medical community. Howere as I mentioned above Dr's nowadays seem more interested in helping with the pain than actual healing and for the average person that is fine. However, as athletes we need to not only be pain free but our joints need to be healed to be at 100%. It seems to me you are confusing pain and healing, which most people do. Its as if you think the lack of pain means you are healed, but that is often not the case.
Just as an example of what I mean, There are a few studies floating around that were done to determine the ffectiveness of an MRI in determining joint problems. I dont remember the exact figures, but out of the people in the study a very large number of those who complained of pain in a given area showed no signs of injury with the MRI. On the other hand, of those with no complaints of pain/injury a large portion actually showed severe tendon or ligament damage. So what that tells us is lack of pain does not mean your injury free and also the existence of pain does not necessarily mean your injured...or at least not where the pain is occuring.
If you find that you are continually having to take NSAIDs for a specific pain then chances are its not really healed. Its likely the inflamation has subsided enough that the pain ceased but as you continue to train hard the inital problem rears its ugly head and the inflamation and pain returns. If the pain you get in your elbows gets bad enough without ice/nsaids etc that it affects your lifting then there is likely a worsening problem. Left unhealed joint laxit can lead to arthritis in the long run. If your tired of living in pain, theck check into prolotherapy. One treatment every 4-6 weeks for 3-8 sessions and you only miss a couple days in the gym after each workout and you will likely be pain free. goto getprolo.com to find a doc in your area.
Just as an example of what I mean, There are a few studies floating around that were done to determine the ffectiveness of an MRI in determining joint problems. I dont remember the exact figures, but out of the people in the study a very large number of those who complained of pain in a given area showed no signs of injury with the MRI. On the other hand, of those with no complaints of pain/injury a large portion actually showed severe tendon or ligament damage. So what that tells us is lack of pain does not mean your injury free and also the existence of pain does not necessarily mean your injured...or at least not where the pain is occuring.
If you find that you are continually having to take NSAIDs for a specific pain then chances are its not really healed. Its likely the inflamation has subsided enough that the pain ceased but as you continue to train hard the inital problem rears its ugly head and the inflamation and pain returns. If the pain you get in your elbows gets bad enough without ice/nsaids etc that it affects your lifting then there is likely a worsening problem. Left unhealed joint laxit can lead to arthritis in the long run. If your tired of living in pain, theck check into prolotherapy. One treatment every 4-6 weeks for 3-8 sessions and you only miss a couple days in the gym after each workout and you will likely be pain free. goto getprolo.com to find a doc in your area.
I always hurt after training...
Try this for you next training days to help the pain...
1. get you some neoprene elbow pads..the black stretchy ones...wear them whenever you train you chest and arms...you will keep the joints straight and tight and you will still be able to complete the exercises with correct form and you will be amazed at how much less you feel the pain even after you are done training...and you can keep them on when you sleep and they wont restrict the blood flow either and you still have the full range of movement you are looking for...
2. after training, go take a hot shower and let the water blast your joints, not only will this thin out the blood slightly, but you will then be able to stretch out afterwards which will also help to ease the pain after the stretch is done...
E
Try this for you next training days to help the pain...
1. get you some neoprene elbow pads..the black stretchy ones...wear them whenever you train you chest and arms...you will keep the joints straight and tight and you will still be able to complete the exercises with correct form and you will be amazed at how much less you feel the pain even after you are done training...and you can keep them on when you sleep and they wont restrict the blood flow either and you still have the full range of movement you are looking for...
2. after training, go take a hot shower and let the water blast your joints, not only will this thin out the blood slightly, but you will then be able to stretch out afterwards which will also help to ease the pain after the stretch is done...
E
I rarely every have to use ice or NSAIDS...only on occasion.
B True
B True
