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World Terror Attacks Tripled in 2004 by U.S. Count

CFZB

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WASHINGTON (Reuters )-- The U.S. count of major world terrorist attacks more than tripled in 2004, a rise that may revive debate on whether the Bush administration is winning the war on terrorism, congressional aides said on Tuesday.

The number of "significant" international terrorist attacks rose to about 650 last year from about 175 in 2003, according to congressional aides briefed on the numbers by State Department and intelligence officials on Monday.

The aides were told the surge partly reflected an increased tally of violence in Kashmir, which is claimed by India and Pakistan, and the devotion of more manpower to U.S. monitoring efforts, which resulted in more attacks being counted overall.

The State Department last year initially released erroneous figures that understated the attacks, fatalities and casualties in 2003 and used the figures to claim the Bush administration was prevailing in the war on terrorism.

It later said the number killed and injured in 2003 was more than double its original count and said "significant" terrorist attacks -- those that kill or seriously injure someone, cause more than $10,000 in damage or attempt to do either of those things -- rose to a 20-year high of 175.

The State Department last week unleashed a new debate about the numbers by saying it would no longer release them in its annual terrorism report but that the newly created National Counterterrorism Center that compiles the data would do so.

A spokesman for the CIA, which is handling media inquiries for the NCTC, last week said no decisions had been made although other officials expected the data to be made public.

Rep. Henry Waxman, a California Democrat, wrote to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Tuesday asking her to release the data.

"The large increases in terrorist attacks reported in 2004 may undermine administration claims of success in the war on terror, but political inconvenience has never been a legitimate basis for withholding facts from the American people," Waxman said in the letter, a copy of which was obtained by Reuters.

Former intelligence official Larry Johnson last week first disclosed the 2004 increase in his Web log, saying the 2004 numbers would rise at least 655 from about 172 in 2003.

Waxman's letter said that of the about 650 significant attacks last year, about 300 reflected violence in India and Pakistan, leaving some 350 attacks elsewhere in the world -- double the total 2003 count.

He suggested this reflected enhanced U.S. efforts to monitor media reports of violence, thereby leading to the identification of "many more attacks in India and Pakistan related to Kashmir."

Congressional aides said about 10 full-time employees worked on the 2004 count, up from about three in past years, and that this produced a more complete count.

"What it effectively means is that the Bush administration and the CIA haven't been putting the staff resources necessary and have missed 80 percent of the world's terrorist incidents" in past years, said a Democratic congressional aide. "How can you have an effective counterterrorism policy from that?"

A Republican congressional aide said it would be unfair of Democrats to claim terrorism was getting worse under the Bush administration, stressing that the 2004 and 2003 numbers were not counted in the same way and hence were not comparable.

"That is a conclusion that cannot be drawn because we have no baseline and certainly last year's revised numbers offer no accurate baseline of the universe of terrorist incidents," he said. "Without that you cannot reach an accurate conclusion."

© 2005 Reuters Ltd
 
If I shoot you, is that a terorist attack?

If I shoot you and I'm a Muslim, is it a terrorist attack?

If you shoot me and I'm a Muslim is it a terrorist related attack?

IF a bomb blows up is it a terrorist attack?

If a bomb blows up and a terrorist takes credit is it a terrorist attack?

If a bomb blows up and terrorists and non-terrorists take credit is it a terorist attack?

If a bomb blow up and a mental patient who is a Muslim takes credit is it a terrorist attack?

If a Muslim blows up anopther Muslim, is it a terrorist attack?

If a Muslim shoots another Muslim is it a terrorist attack?

If a muslim robs another Muslim is it a terrorist attack?

If a Muslim beats up another Muslim is it a terrorist attack?

If a Crip caps a muslim Blood is it a terrorist attack?

IF a Muslim Blood caps a Crip is it a terrorist attack?
 
This is the Best part of that article....

Rep. Henry Waxman, a California Democrat, wrote to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Tuesday asking her to release the data.

"The large increases in terrorist attacks reported in 2004 may undermine administration claims of success in the war on terror, but political inconvenience has never been a legitimate basis for withholding facts from the American people," Waxman said in the letter, a copy of which was obtained by Reuters.
 
If you do a little research about this you will see that the Bush admin has suspended the Annual Terrorism Report as well.....You know the one...The one we have had forever....

The one that they pitifully undercounted right before the last election and when the news broke that they LIED ,Colin Powell Had to apologise about the mistake...

One of the reasons why he left.

these guys are fucking Nazis.

Trust but Verify my Fuckin Ass.

Assholes.
 
i think your arguements and attitude are more nazi-ish (such a terrible word to use but since you used it first) than your opponents
 
Gambino said:
i think your arguements and attitude are more nazi-ish (such a terrible word to use but since you used it first) than your opponents
By definition a "Democracy" depends on a educated population.

They twist ..withhold or just plain lie EVERYTHING.

That makes me mad.
 
CFZB said:
By definition a "Democracy" depends on a educated population.

They twist ..withhold or just plain lie EVERYTHING.

That makes me mad.

We're not a Democracy we're a Republic you stupid fuck.

At least get that part right before you start talking about our government. Ignorant ass...
 
Although I would say the numbers are skewed, I maintain that if this administration thought attacking other countries would decrease terrorism, they were sorely mistaken.
 
As to the numbers: yes, they probably are skewed a little high, just as the Bush administration probably skewed them a little low.

Here's the real question: should America be afraid of ANY sort of military action whatsoever just because it might set off terrorist attacks around the world? Let me rephrase that: should America be intimidated by the terrorists? Should we let a group or murderers who resort to killing women and children and decapitating live bodies dictate our policy?

In my opinion, the answer is no. We saw how appeasement worked with Hitler in Germany, thank God the current administration at least has the balls to do something when they deem it dangerous.
 
CrazyRussian said:
As to the numbers: yes, they probably are skewed a little high, just as the Bush administration probably skewed them a little low.

Here's the real question: should America be afraid of ANY sort of military action whatsoever just because it might set off terrorist attacks around the world? Let me rephrase that: should America be intimidated by the terrorists? Should we let a group or murderers who resort to killing women and children and decapitating live bodies dictate our policy?

In my opinion, the answer is no. We saw how appeasement worked with Hitler in Germany, thank God the current administration at least has the balls to do something when they deem it dangerous.

Fair enough. America and other countries should not be intimidated by terrorists. However, many of your points obviously refer to Iraq. How exactly do you cover that little debacle? Nobody from that country attacked the US. There was no Al-Qaida presence there until the US attacked. There is precious little in the way of evidence that Saddam's regime had anything in terms of contact with terrorists other than giving money to the family of Palestinian suicide bombers.
 
4everhung said:
If I shoot you, is that a terorist attack?

If I shoot you and I'm a Muslim, is it a terrorist attack?

If you shoot me and I'm a Muslim is it a terrorist related attack?

IF a bomb blows up is it a terrorist attack?

If a bomb blows up and a terrorist takes credit is it a terrorist attack?

If a bomb blows up and terrorists and non-terrorists take credit is it a terorist attack?

If a bomb blow up and a mental patient who is a Muslim takes credit is it a terrorist attack?

If a Muslim blows up anopther Muslim, is it a terrorist attack?

If a Muslim shoots another Muslim is it a terrorist attack?

If a muslim robs another Muslim is it a terrorist attack?

If a Muslim beats up another Muslim is it a terrorist attack?

If a Crip caps a muslim Blood is it a terrorist attack?

IF a Muslim Blood caps a Crip is it a terrorist attack?

Dude, the article clearly defines what they are counting as terroritst attacks.
 
When the United States Security Council (which includes France, Russia, China, Germany, Mexico, and Seria) unanimously voted that Iraq had one final chance to disclose it's WMD programs (which they've had to do since 1991), Iraq failed to do so. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together...

Also, we helped throw out a man who murdered HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CITIZENS(sound familiar?), had previously engaged in biological warfare, has proven that he is a threat to freedom (Kuwait), and installed a more democratic government. The same people who were loyal to Sadaam are the ones you see out on the streets murdering Iraqi officials and trying to bomb election sites. Is this the kind of government we want in the middle east?

And as my last comment, I'd like to quote a website I just read. I think it provides a very good justification for going to war with Iraq: please read it and tell me what you think.

In addition to murdering hundreds of thousands of citizens, Hussein’s actions and selfish indulgence ensured that nearly every Iraqi would live in squalor for decades. He strengthened Iraq’s military and oil industry only to benefit himself, and he brutally assassinated innocent victims, including children. Reports of his evil methods — such as watching his enemies being eaten alive by dogs — are well documented by defectors.

Many anti-war individuals agree with this assessment of Hussein but believe less aggressive methods could have removed him from power. To initiate a pre-emptive strike, they say, was unacceptable.

Alas, the world has employed generous patience when dealing with Saddam in the past, and he reciprocated with deception, treachery, and continual noncompliance. For 12 years following the first Gulf War, containment, sanctions, and inspections failed to generate any positive results. Hussein has disregarded no less than 16 binding U.N. resolutions. Claiming that these non-military actions would have any effect in the future is naive.

The notion that the war is unjustified because no weapons of mass destruction have been located is equally fallible. Hussein is a proven liar in weapons matters, having balked at his promise to “get rid of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and programs, to scrap long-range ballistic missiles, and to stop brutalizing his people” after the first Gulf War.

Here’s a story that anti-war protesters don’t enjoy hearing. During the 1990’s, Saddam denied having produced VX gas, a deadly nerve agent. Following an irrefutable discovery, he admitted to making 200 liters, but a later U.N. inspection showed that at least 3,900 liters had been produced in Iraq.

With such evidence, claims that Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction before Operation Iraqi Freedom require either an overzealous contempt for America’s president or a blind optimism in the nature of Iraq’s former dictator.
 
CrazyRussian said:
Here's the real question: should America be afraid of ANY sort of military action whatsoever just because it might set off terrorist attacks around the world? Let me rephrase that: should America be intimidated by the terrorists? Should we let a group or murderers who resort to killing women and children and decapitating live bodies dictate our policy?

I think another real question is whether our current hardline policies are working. I think they are not working because we attacked the wrong country. If we're going to use our military might, we should use it in an area where the terrorists are actually located.
 
Please read the quote in post #17, ftf, and tell me that we weren't justified in dethroning Sadaam.

And FYI, there is no area "where the terrorists are located", if you haven't already figured it out.
 
CrazyRussian said:
When the United States Security Council (which includes France, Russia, China, Germany, Mexico, and Seria) unanimously voted that Iraq had one final chance to disclose it's WMD programs (which they've had to do since 1991), Iraq failed to do so. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together...

Also, we helped throw out a man who murdered HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CITIZENS(sound familiar?), had previously engaged in biological warfare, has proven that he is a threat to freedom (Kuwait), and installed a more democratic government. The same people who were loyal to Sadaam are the ones you see out on the streets murdering Iraqi officials and trying to bomb election sites. Is this the kind of government we want in the middle east?

And as my last comment, I'd like to quote a website I just read. I think it provides a very good justification for going to war with Iraq: please read it and tell me what you think.

I don't dispute that removing Saddam was a good thing although I have serious issues with how it was done. Your initial post referred to America not being intimidated by terrorists and taking the fight to them. Great. That started off well with Afghanistan and went downhill from there.

As well, not flaming you but 'we went into Iraq to remove a brutal dictator'? Come on, what a load. That's almost as funny as the rest of the myriad of reasons this administration has spewed to justify their unilateral tactics. Iraq was invaded for one reason. The United States believes they need governments in the Middle East beholden to them and their interests so that the oil keeps flowing. That's it. Is it a side benefit to get rid of Saddam and install a 'democratic' government in place of a murderous dictator? For sure.

lol at United States Security Council.

P.S. love the quote about the VX nerve agent. One problem, this is 2005, not 1990. The United States government has admitted after an exhaustive investigation that there are no WMD to be found in Iraq so let's not even get into that tired BS.
 
So to paraphrase that whole post, you agree with removing Saddam, but you disagree with how it was done. I'm curious as to what method you would propose for removing Saddam? Peaceful riots in downtown Baghdad, perhaps? I think the way we did it was adequate because it made an example of Sadaam, as shown by that Kenyan leader who gave up his WMD's shortly after our invasion.


On a side note, I agree that oil was a part of the whole thing (nay, a HUGE part :) ). However, contrary to yourself, I believe it was just a "side benefit", and not the primary focus.
 
CrazyRussian said:
So to paraphrase that whole post, you agree with removing Saddam, but you disagree with how it was done. I'm curious as to what method you would propose for removing Saddam? Peaceful riots in downtown Baghdad, perhaps? I think the way we did it was adequate because it made an example of Sadaam, as shown by that Kenyan leader who gave up his WMD's shortly after our invasion.


On a side note, I agree that oil was a part of the whole thing (nay, a HUGE part :) ). However, contrary to yourself, I believe it was just a "side benefit", and not the primary focus.

I don't pretend to have an answer. I don't think you can force democracy on a people, never a good idea IMO.

Oil cannot be a side benefit in this. If that were the case, why did the Bush administration not remove other, more dangerous regimes? Why did they not remove dozens of other dictators around the globe? Probably because none of them have any oil? ;)

Kenya had WMD?

Let me add something there. I'm a proponent of making the Middle East obsolete (hopefully forcing reform from within). How do you do that? Remove the dependence on oil. That would have been my solution rather than unilaterally invading a country and killing hundreds of thousands. The only problem with that is how long would it have taken? 10 years? 20? I think it could have been done (and still can) in a relatively short period of time if the appropriate resources and benefits were devoted to it. Unfortunately, Bush Corporation would rather build more refineries, drill for oil in wildlife refuges and give billions in tax breaks to 'dirty companies'. ;) If there is something I detest Bush for more than his foreign policy, it's his environmental policy....lol
 
Last edited:
I don't dispute that removing Saddam was a good thing
I don't think you can force democracy on a people, never a good idea IMO.

just wanted to point out that small fallacy before I went to school.

And I meant to say Libya, not Kenya. Had a little brainfart there lol

Anyways, I think we can agree to disagree. The way I think about it, hundreds of thousands of hours of debate on this topic hasn't solved anything, what makes us think we can do it here? :)
 
CrazyRussian said:
just wanted to point out that small fallacy before I went to school.

And I meant to say Libya, not Kenya. Had a little brainfart there lol

Anyways, I think we can agree to disagree. The way I think about it, hundreds of thousands of hours of debate on this topic hasn't solved anything, what makes us think we can do it here? :)

How is that contradictory? Saddam being removed is not the same as invading a country and trying to force them into democracy.

Definitely agree that the debate will never be solved to the satisfaction of both sides.
 
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