This is my opinion ans a lot of people disagree but my experience is that winny is a waste of money for what it does. It is very good at not holding water. That is its main advantage. You can switch from test, three weeks before a contest, to winny and eliminate all water retention while holding muscle. You will get a much better anabolic effect from test at a lot less the cost. With arimidex now avalible, at a reasonable price, it makes winny even more useless since you can take test with arimidex and get the superior muscle building from the test without the water retention. My advice would be to buy some test and liquid x and go with that.