Winstrol for improving androgen sensitivity...

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Any of you folks who have researched proviron as an anabolic aid have undoubtedly at one time or another heard the theory of it tying up Sex-Hormone-Binding-Globulin,which is,for lack of better word,a pain in the ass hormone that renders a good amount of the testosterone and androgen molecules you inject inactive...Thus by tying up this hormone or eliminating it's binding capacities to the androgens in your system,you free much more of them up to reach their targeted receptors and invoke anabolic responses...Well,FORGET ABOUT PROVIRON FOR THIS PURPOSE!!Check this study out which shows winstrol's ability to combat SHBG and improve androgen receptor sensitivity-This means it very well could help you get much more effectivity out of your other anabolics(primarily testosterone)and increase your overall anabolism of the OTHER steroids your using in a stack with it!Not to mention,it's about 3 million times more anabolic than proviron...Enjoy my brotha's.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1989 Jun;68(6):1195-200


Sex hormone-binding globulin response to the anabolic steroid stanozolol: evidence for its suitability as a biological androgen sensitivity test.

Sinnecker G, Kohler S.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Hamburg, West Germany.

Both the androgen-induced decline in serum sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels during puberty and the anabolic effect of exogenous testosterone are absent in patients with androgen insensitivity (testicular feminization). To determine whether the androgen-induced decline in serum SHBG could be used as a test of androgen sensitivity, we studied the effect of the anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstano-[3,2-c]pyrazol) on serum SHBG in 25 control subjects, 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity, and 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity. Stanozolol was administered orally for 3 days (0.2 mg/kg.day); blood samples were taken before and 5, 6, 7, and 8 days after the beginning of the test for measurements of serum SHBG. The lowest value (i.e. the peak response) in each subject was used as the measure of the response to stanozolol. In the control subjects the mean nadir serum SHBG level was 51.6 +/- 5.9% (+/- SD) of the initial value (P less than 0.001). In the 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity the nadir serum SHBG ranged from 73-89%, and in the 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity it ranged from 93-97% of the initial value. Thus, the decrease in serum SHBG after short term administration of stanozolol reflects androgen responsiveness and, thus, may be used to differentiate patients with androgen insensitivity syndromes from those with other causes of male pseudohermaphroditism.

 

[Fonz]

Interesting....however in my case it doesn't help
much since I don't use Test.(If you guys want to send
bad karma for me for this please sign it.
This is the A-board not the chicken-shit board )

One counter-argument is that proviron DOES
increase sex-drive while winstrol definately
doesn't.

I guess this means good news for test users.

Fonz

 

[brianharper94]

Good info. I always have liked winstrol, but I usually use it near the end of a cycle. I used it one time for 12 weks, but my joints felt terrible. Does this mean we should use it toward the begining of a cycle or a low dose through out it? Here's some karma.

 

[flickenu]

That's a good read.


One question- It said they had 25 control subjects, 4 having partial androgen sensitivity and 3 with no androgen sensitivity, then it showed the results after the winny was administered. What about the 18 subjects who had normal androgen receptors? Does it go on to tell what values they had post-administration?

By the way, I love reading this sort of stuff but have hard times finding it. Can you email me at [email protected] with either websites/newsletters/articles in which they do studies like this?

 

[Fonz]

That's a good read.


One question- It said they had 25 control subjects, 4 having partial androgen sensitivity and 3 with no androgen sensitivity, then it showed the results after the winny was administered. What about the 18 subjects who had normal androgen receptors? Does it go on to tell what values they had post-administration?

By the way, I love reading this sort of stuff but have hard times finding it. Can you email me at [email protected] with either websites/newsletters/articles in which they do studies like this?

Go to medline. Then its a matter of:

1. patience
2. A LOT of reading over abstracts
3. FULLY understanding the actual study

I wouldn't be surprised of Huck had to wade through 200+
abstracts to find this perticular study.

Fonz

 

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Interesting read.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Go to medline. Then its a matter of:

1. patience
2. A LOT of reading over abstracts
3. FULLY understanding the actual study

I wouldn't be surprised of Huck had to wade through 200+
abstracts to find this perticular study.

Fonz

LOL!!I can see you have done some surfing as well at one time or another...That was about 5 hours or so to find that one,lol...Damn it Fonz,start using those male hormones ,would ya?J/K...

 

[ultragainz]

good post you guys.....

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Good info. I always have liked winstrol, but I usually use it near the end of a cycle. I used it one time for 12 weks, but my joints felt terrible. Does this mean we should use it toward the begining of a cycle or a low dose through out it? Here's some karma.

I would use it at the beginning and throughout the cycle.If the joint problems get too intense,toss a small to moderate amount of deca into the mix and you'll more than likely feel fine in no time.

 

[ultragainz]

so huck its better to have it for the whole cycle not last 6-8 weeks?....just say iam hitting a 10 week cycle what i hit 10 weeks of winny or strat the winny at the last 6-8 weeks or the first 6-8 weeks...i tried it both ways i have hit it in the first weeks and the last weeks...both seemed to work great...i hit it for the whole cycle once it was a 8 week cycle...and i have hit 3 on 1 off too so it ends at week 11...

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

I'm no longer a fan of winstrol being used at the tail-end of a cycle...I posted a study a while back and Stew meat pointed out something VERY signifigant within it-Winstrol negatively effects benzodiazepam receptors in the brain.This means when it is the only steroid used,or is ran past the other steroids in a stack,there's a strong possibilty of it leading the user into a bout of severe post-cycle DEPRESSION...The solution?Always run it with a differen't type of steroid(preferably test)or run another steroid AFTER it's use to keep the brain in proper order from a hormone-based standpoint...

 

[MaxBiceps]

Great post huck. I almost always use winstrol in every cycle I've done so far. This is for all those people who think 'strol overrated.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

LOL!!This bad boy is already drifting off into never-never land on the second page...Give me some love here fella's!

 

[bulkhead]

atta boy

good post huck , i tried to reward you with kharma but it said i had to spread it around ,oh well its the thought that counts lol lol

 

[GAINSEEKER]

Damn HUCK you da man !!!! I am planning next cycle and am putting it in heavy !!!! Acually my entire next cycle is going to be heavy as hell but now it will include winny throughout it !!!!
Excellent post !!!

 

[gwl9dta4]

This makes a lot of sence. Since my first couple of cycles were very light and consisted mostly of winstroll i have been able to use sustanon at a dosage of 500mg weekly during the peak and consistently make great gains with every cycle at low dosages. I wonder if using stanazolol in the first few times has set my receptors up for the future and am now able to get away with using less while still making great gains? If that is the case than it would be smart for all novices to start their first cycle with Winny.

 

[Trevdog]

Great post. I was also told to "spread my karma around".

Maybe I am just brain dead from too much work, but from the study I didn't get a quantification of how increase in effectiveness normal males could expect from test by adding winstrol.

Also, the study didn't mention provirion, so wouldn't we going beyond the study to say forget about using proviron, since winstrol is available. We don't really know from this study which is more effective, do we?

Fonz, I know you have done very well despite your aversion to test, but I am curious. Did you end up trying test and didn't like it? If not, what are your reasons for avoiding it?

 

[Fonz]

Great post. I was also told to "spread my karma around".

Maybe I am just brain dead from too much work, but from the study I didn't get a quantification of how increase in effectiveness normal males could expect from test by adding winstrol.

Also, the study didn't mention provirion, so wouldn't we going beyond the study to say forget about using proviron, since winstrol is available. We don't really know from this study which is more effective, do we?

Fonz, I know you have done very well despite your aversion to test, but I am curious. Did you end up trying test and didn't like it? If not, what are your reasons for avoiding it?

Well, the closest I've gotten to use test is Andriol at 800mg/day
(20 40mg caps/day) for 12 weeks(thats 5600mg/week)
and got some gains but also(for the only time in my life)
got a sort of rash over my cest, shoulders, back.
Not acne, just a VERY itchy rash.

After that, I just swore of test and I haven't had any problems
since. Even with Fina, no problems whatsoever.

The funny thing is a psyched myself up for a test cycle,
got all the gear then chickened out after seeing a pic
of somebodies test-bloated body.

I'm just paranoid that people will notice "the bloat"
and start a train of thought that ends in "he must
use steroids".

I still have 4 TT cypionate bottles, 80 viromone amps,
and 40 testoviron amps that I was going to use
for that cycle. I was going to go all out.

Oh well, maybe sometime........I'm still young.

Fonz

 

[Hugh Gellatts]

damn, Huck's posts remind me of a car dealer who talks you into getting the rust-proofing, extended cupholder warranty and muffler-mudguard...whenever I read his posts I wanna add more and more drugs to my next cycle...LOL

 

[hard]

.....The funny thing is a psyched myself up for a test cycle,
got all the gear then chickened out after seeing a pic
of somebodies test-bloated body.

I'm just paranoid that people will notice "the bloat"
and start a train of thought that ends in "he must
use steroids".

Fonz

.5mg eod of armidex will keep you bloat and gyno free. But you'll still have to stay away from the tight sweaters and tees as tt cyp is definitly very anabolic. Who cares what people think anyways? Fuck 'em. Not that I'm quite ready to start wearing my ttokkyo tshirt in public just yet.

 

[muscleup]

Huck great post !!! I think you have to be the most intelligent fucker on this entire board. Everytime you post something I have to go back and read it slowly about 2-3 times just to get it all...again thanks you're a great asset to this board.

 

[the*_Rat]

Great mother fuckin post, Brah! The best drug to lower that nasty SHBG, besides Winstrol, is Andriol. It's about the only thing that this drug is good for. Peace

 

[B182]

Any of you folks who have researched proviron as an anabolic aid have undoubtedly at one time or another heard the theory of it tying up Sex-Hormone-Binding-Globulin,which is,for lack of better word,a pain in the ass hormone that renders a good amount of the testosterone and androgen molecules you inject inactive...Thus by tying up this hormone or eliminating it's binding capacities to the androgens in your system,you free much more of them up to reach their targeted receptors and invoke anabolic responses...Well,FORGET ABOUT PROVIRON FOR THIS PURPOSE!!Check this study out which shows winstrol's ability to combat SHBG and improve androgen receptor sensitivity-This means it very well could help you get much more effectivity out of your other anabolics(primarily testosterone)and increase your overall anabolism of the OTHER steroids your using in a stack with it!Not to mention,it's about 3 million times more anabolic than proviron...Enjoy my brotha's.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1989 Jun;68(6):1195-200


Sex hormone-binding globulin response to the anabolic steroid stanozolol: evidence for its suitability as a biological androgen sensitivity test.

Sinnecker G, Kohler S.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Hamburg, West Germany.

Both the androgen-induced decline in serum sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels during puberty and the anabolic effect of exogenous testosterone are absent in patients with androgen insensitivity (testicular feminization). To determine whether the androgen-induced decline in serum SHBG could be used as a test of androgen sensitivity, we studied the effect of the anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstano-[3,2-c]pyrazol) on serum SHBG in 25 control subjects, 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity, and 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity. Stanozolol was administered orally for 3 days (0.2 mg/kg.day); blood samples were taken before and 5, 6, 7, and 8 days after the beginning of the test for measurements of serum SHBG. The lowest value (i.e. the peak response) in each subject was used as the measure of the response to stanozolol. In the control subjects the mean nadir serum SHBG level was 51.6 +/- 5.9% (+/- SD) of the initial value (P less than 0.001). In the 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity the nadir serum SHBG ranged from 73-89%, and in the 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity it ranged from 93-97% of the initial value. Thus, the decrease in serum SHBG after short term administration of stanozolol reflects androgen responsiveness and, thus, may be used to differentiate patients with androgen insensitivity syndromes from those with other causes of male pseudohermaphroditism.

Nice post, thanks. One thing though- SHBG is NOT a hormone.

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Yup. Winny is king for potentiating test. This was discussed on AF last year, I seem to recall...good research, Huck. As usual, you have brought a very valid, but often overlooked, point of view to the discussion of anabolics. There is some more research on winny done in about 1996 that will convert almost any skeptic. My fascination with winny is pretty well known on these boards. You are bringing lots of the reasons to light, huck! Next, you'll start producing actual studies that show trenbelone to actually assist in fat burning...

 

[The Iron Game]

Very good and interesting post with some interesting reason not to use winstrol at the end of a cycle on its own. Although making people depressed would be a result of what exactly?

Thanks Big guy

 

[athlete03]

Huck, I say this with upmost honesty: your threads kick ass. Thank you, thank you, thank you...

 

[JUICEMAN]

Huck, Excellent Post. Just one quick question though. So, since the effects of the testosterone are going to be increased when using the winstrol, does that mean that you are more likely to develope side effects such as gyno. Would it be smart to lower your test doseage when using winny?

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

There will be more free'd up testosterone molecules,so yes that opens the possibilty of more estrogenic conversion.BUT-that's what we have arimidex/liquidex for.Winny and arimidex + Testosterone = the largest amount of test you will ever have reach it's targeted receptors to invoke anabolism.

 

[ORANGE_JUICER]

huck is 25mg a day enough to combat shbg?????????

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Yep,that would be benificial.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

damn good post...

thanks for the great post, Huck. So I guess that because it potentiates test, and combats progesterone from deca, fina, and anadrol, winstrol goes with everything!

Is there any reason not to incorporate winstrol into every cycle?

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Re: damn good post...

thanks for the great post, Huck. So I guess that because it potentiates test, and combats progesterone from deca, fina, and anadrol, winstrol goes with everything!

Is there any reason not to incorporate winstrol into every cycle?

It is indeed,an important piece of the puzzle in any anabolic regimen,because it works differently than any other steroid...Just be sure to use ample protectants when stacking it with any other oral 17aa compound.

 

[MUSTANG_18]

I still have 4 TT cypionate bottles, 80 viromone amps,
and 40 testoviron amps that I was going to use
for that cycle. I was going to go all out.

Fonz

Dammm you! My mouth is watering you rich bastard LOL

M18

 

[Contender30.1]

So Huck I have 100 50mg tabs... of winny..... im doing an 8 week sustanon cycle

Should I take 50mg a day for the whole cycle or 25mg a day?

anyone can answer this

 

[MUSTANG_18]

So Huck I have 100 50mg tabs... of winny..... im doing an 8 week sustanon cycle

Should I take 50mg a day for the whole cycle or 25mg a day?

anyone can answer this

Take 50mg/Day for the first 8 weeks of your cycle. Use ALA at 600mg/Day through out to protect your liver

M18

 

[thefantom1]

Ok say you are doing 500mg of test per week (front load with 1g the first week) and you want to use 25mg of winny per day like you stated above.....now most people like to use dbol the first 4 weeks to "jumpstart" the cycle....now say you want to use 30-35mg a day of dbol the first 4 weeks.....the dbol along with the winny.........do you see any problems with this??? Maybe too much for the liver??? Just wanted your guys thoughts on this......

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Alpha-lipoic acid,glutathione,milkthistle & calcium d-glucarate in liberal amounts should coincide double 17aa regimens to keep hepatic stress from getting out of hand.

 

[str8cubano]

There will be more free'd up testosterone molecules,so yes that opens the possibilty of more estrogenic conversion.BUT-that's what we have arimidex/liquidex for.

alright guys, im getting the impression that you need armidex/liquidex for a winstrol "only" cycle. I have never heard of that....???

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

alright guys, im getting the impression that you need armidex/liquidex for a winstrol "only" cycle. I have never heard of that....???

No,his question was that if test AND winny were ran simultaniously and MORE test molecules were not disrupted by SHBG and therfore reach their targeted sites,would that not then mean more test free to convert to estrogen,and the answer was likely yes.Winny alone is incapable of converting to estrogen.

 

[Stew Meat]

Any androgen will bind to SHBG. Unless SHBG has a higher affinity toward winstrol than testosterone (which wasn't mentioned in the study) then there is no difference between the two in terms of SHBG inhibition.

The basis of this study seems to be that in individuals who produce more SHBG than they do testosterone, exogenous androgens can be used to reach a normal baseline. In other words, if your SHBG levels are high, you'll need to inject more androgen to see the same results as one who has normal SHBG levels. Oxandralone would have been a MUCH better drug of choice for the study as it would not have had the toxicity as stanzolol, but I guess in 1989 they weren't aware of this.



-Stew

 

[thefantom1]

Stew........ so what do you think the results would of been if Anavar was used instead of Winstrol?????

 

[Stew Meat]

Stew........ so what do you think the results would of been if Anavar was used instead of Winstrol?????

I would say any androgen woudl have yielded the same result only oxandralone would have been the safest route IMO.


-Stew

 

[Texas Ranger]

Stew, so what type of results would a Test Enanthate, Winstrol, and EQ combo along with Arimidex yield?

 

[MWB]

One thing I can't seem to find a clear answer on is how much winny will suppress hpta? Any info on that? Will it hit hard like fina?