why use anything else besides test???

[AlwaysOn]

why couldn't someone megadose test, but use finasteride to cancel out excess DHT, and use a TINY bit of anti-aromatase to cancel out excess estrogen?

NO need to stack with anything else. Plus, the metabolites aren't in your system for a year like deca or 5 months like tren

not to mention, no tren sides (although I believe tren's sides can also be cancelled out by proscar)

 

[AlwaysOn]

bump

 

[tboy72]

var just goes so well with test!

 

[Slyder190]

There are a variety of reasons depending on your goals. To use anything to bulk at all is very debatable isuse in my book however.

 

[bigbuzz]

var just goes so well with test!

How much var do you stack with your test?

 

[freakazoid]

test gives the size but i use fina to help with stridations to get that ripped look in the muscle.

 

[Little Rage]

some people like me do not respond well to it.

 

[needsize]

I personally dont respond that well to test, I only get results when I stack it with other goodies

 

[tboy72]

How much var do you stack with your test?

40 mgs.....the first time i did btg var with no test at 25 mgs a day with amazing results. now with the prop its UNREAL!.....

 

[AlwaysOn]

I personally dont respond that well to test, I only get results when I stack it with other goodies

which goodies?

I refuse to do deca at this point..lol

 

[AlwaysOn]

some people like me do not respond well to it.

whats "not responding well"

how many pounds did you put on on test only using only test

 

[ManOfArms]

why couldn't someone megadose test, but use finasteride to cancel out excess DHT, and use a TINY bit of anti-aromatase to cancel out excess estrogen?

NO need to stack with anything else. Plus, the metabolites aren't in your system for a year like deca or 5 months like tren

not to mention, no tren sides (although I believe tren's sides can also be cancelled out by proscar)

Simple answer, because I love Anavar(even though it's more expensive)., why? because I dont bloat from it!!!!!

 

[Whacked]

Test suck for me too.............basically uselss.

 

[needsize]

so far enth/deca/eq is my favourite stack, with a dbol kickstart

 

[casualbb]

You always stack a class 1 with a class 2 for synergistic effect. However, I remember Bill Roberts saying that the only exception to that rule would be for megadosing test. You would need more than a little anti-e's and DHT blockers.

 

[Juiceman2004]

Test is awsome! (always had great results)

Mostly this is all I ever run.

 

[TheRide]

so far enth/deca/eq is my favourite stack, with a dbol kickstart

...as you can well tell by NeedSize's avatar... he has no clue what he's talking about!!

 

[jerkbox]

next cycle might be test only depending on how my hairline ends up from this tren......i wanna keep the hair, but goddamn this stuff is doing some good shit to my body

 

[AlwaysOn]

Test suck for me too.............basically uselss.

for those saying that test is not good alone, how high did you run it?

 

[Little Rage]

whats "not responding well"

how many pounds did you put on on test only using only test

I break out really bad on it, and it gets so much worse post cycle.
The bloat is uncontrollable even with an anti-e.
I feel lethargic on it.
I hate the increase in libido.

I can add more strength and weight, without the sides, using other gear.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

because tesotosterone is metabolised to more than just DHT

megadosing anything in a hormonal system results makes a lot of other hormonal controls get out of whack

and of course there are the reasons cited earlier; some people experience more bloat, more acne, more hairloss etc etc while on test as compared to other agents

cheers

 

[Triple-G]

nandrolone (deca) was specifically designed to minimize testosterone sides (increased body and facial hair growth, losing scalp hair, acne, prostate enlargement, oily skin, gyno due to estrogen buildup ...) while maximizing its anabolic properties. so was methenolone (primo) or oxandrolone and many others. so its a good idea when using high doses to use a test base and add something with less sides.

 

[granby140]

cause my dick would be hard soo much i think it would fall off

 

[AlwaysOn]

because tesotosterone is metabolised to more than just DHT

megadosing anything in a hormonal system results makes a lot of other hormonal controls get out of whack

and of course there are the reasons cited earlier; some people experience more bloat, more acne, more hairloss etc etc while on test as compared to other agents

cheers

no

test is only converted to DHT (and estrogen of course). And all those sides you mentioned are caused by DHT.

my whole point of this thread is: nowadays with proscar we can cancel out these sides.

 

[AlwaysOn]

nandrolone (deca) was specifically designed to minimize testosterone sides QUOTE]

exactly, but now we have proscar

 

[jeb0177]

so far enth/deca/eq is my favourite stack, with a dbol kickstart

do you shred as far as hailoss needsize?????

 

[Koivu_11]

Test + Aromatise Anhibitor + DHT Blocker = one of the less potent cycle you could imagine.

 

[Pakelika]

why not ? because i like a few steroids that work a lot better than test alone. personally i think test by itself sucks balls, but thats just me

 

[Deleted member 33117]

I make sick gains on test, but even with letro, it bloats me on doses as low as 400 mg a week (50 mg of prop a day will still cause 10 lbs of water gain for me). Regardless of bodyfat level, its impossible for me to have visible abes on test. Otherwise, I would have to agree that it is really the most cost effective compound.

 

[poantrex]

For anyone prone to acne, test is usually acne in a bottle. So I can see why some would avoid it

 

[poantrex]

no

test is only converted to DHT (and estrogen of course). And all those sides you mentioned are caused by DHT.

my whole point of this thread is: nowadays with proscar we can cancel out these sides.

Thats interesting, since most people using proscar report increased skin oiliness and acne breakouts when using proscar. Do a search of google groups.

I break out on both proscar and avodart, while not using any AAS.

 

[AlwaysOn]

DHT blocks estrogen.

estrogen increase can cause acne

 

[needsize]

proscar/finasteride also comes with nasty sexual sides, which I am prone too, not worth it for me.
jeb, I use topicals like spironolactone which stop any more hair loss for me

 

[poantrex]

DHT blocks estrogen.

estrogen increase can cause acne

Do you have any proof that estrogen causes acne? I have never heard of this.

 

[AlwaysOn]

No, but thats the only thing I can think of. I've had a lot of UPPER-level bio courses.

Plus I'm talking about proscar on a mega-test cycle. I would never take finasteride just by itself

 

[AlwaysOn]

proscar/finasteride also comes with nasty sexual sides, which I am prone too, not worth it for me.

the key is to use just enough proscar on a mega-test cycle to cancel out SOME of the DHT, but not all.

and also, you have to be megadosing test too. no stacking with anything else

~700mg test/week

this is all theory of course

may I ask how much proscar it takes for you to develop these sides?
on cycle or off?

this is for my own benefit

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Elevated estragen levels from using test are not why it causes acne. There are ANDROGEN recepors in sabsious (damn I know I spelled it wrong) glands that when activated caused increased activity (this means they release more oil) which in turn can increase the amount of acne present.

 

[AlwaysOn]

finasteride has no affinity with the androgen receptor.
you can't win, I'm a scientist lol
and again, I'm talking about using finasteride with test, not finasteride alone

But I just thought of the way, finasteride would cause acne when used alone.

Finasteride prevents the conversion of test to DHT. This is equivalent to having MORE test (120% as shown by serum levels in the literature).

test can activate the androgen receptors of course, as can estrogen (which as I discussed before, has now increased)

**IN SUM, finasteride increases amount of androgens (test and estradiol), which activate the receptors**

 

[poantrex]

Uh, wait a second. You're saying that decreased DHT will increase estrogen, and increased estrogen is in turn responsible for proscar induced acne. But none of these hormones have affinity with the androgen receptor....uhh

Do you know what the hell you're talking about?

 

[poantrex]

proscar/finasteride also comes with nasty sexual sides, which I am prone too, not worth it for me.
jeb, I use topicals like spironolactone which stop any more hair loss for me

Very true, which is why I will never use it again. I almost want to get prostate cancer rather than having a limp dick while using 2 grams of test.

 

[AlwaysOn]

Uh, wait a second. You're saying that decreased DHT will increase estrogen, and increased estrogen is in turn responsible for proscar induced acne. But none of these hormones have affinity with the androgen receptor....uhh

Do you know what the hell you're talking about?

i edited my above post for you to understand

 

[poantrex]

finasteride has no affinity with the androgen receptor.
you can't win, I'm a scientist lol
and again, I'm talking about using finasteride with test, not finasteride alone

But I just thought of the way, finasteride would cause acne when used alone.

Finasteride prevents the conversion of test to DHT. This is equivalent to having MORE test (120% as shown by serum levels in the literature).

test can activate the androgen receptors of course, as can estrogen (which as I discussed before, has now increased)

**IN SUM, finasteride increases amount of androgens (test and estradiol), which activate the receptors**

This of course debunks your theory that finasteride prevents acne while using test.

 

[Super Test 2004]

High blood pressure.
Thats what is making me stop now.

 

[jeb0177]

proscar/finasteride also comes with nasty sexual sides, which I am prone too, not worth it for me.
jeb, I use topicals like spironolactone which stop any more hair loss for me

where do you get it from bro? do you get the 5% lotion or the cream?

 

[jeb0177]

proscar/finasteride also comes with nasty sexual sides, which I am prone too, not worth it for me.
jeb, I use topicals like spironolactone which stop any more hair loss for me

where do you get it from bro? do you get the lotion 5%%,??

 

[AlwaysOn]

This of course debunks your theory that finasteride prevents acne while using test.

I never said finasteride prevents acne, although looking back on what I said I may have given you that impression.

I was focused on hair loss and gyno as the sides I'm trying to combat

 

[nydj66]

You always stack a class 1 with a class 2 for synergistic effect. However, I remember Bill Roberts saying that the only exception to that rule would be for megadosing test. You would need more than a little anti-e's and DHT blockers.

Test is both a class I and class II steroid. It is the standard that the others are compared to.

 

[jeb0177]

proscar/finasteride also comes with nasty sexual sides, which I am prone too, not worth it for me.
jeb, I use topicals like spironolactone which stop any more hair loss for me

where do you get the spirolactone bro??? is it the 5% solution??

 

[Davs]

HGH--better than test.

 

[AlwaysOn]

is it lol


i don't think so

 

[poantrex]

I never said finasteride prevents acne, although looking back on what I said I may have given you that impression.

I was focused on hair loss and gyno as the sides I'm trying to combat

Hair loss maybe, but gyno is listed as a possible side effect of proscar. Also, you theorize that decreased DHT increases estrogen...hmm.

 

[Oiltanker]

you saturate/degrade your receptors...
...remember change is good....
--multiple anabolics, androgens, slin, thyroids and hormones at smaller doses works best for me..

 

[Deleted member 33117]

oiltanker, current research suggest that receptor saturation by supralogical doses causes upregulation, not downregulation as previously thought by the athletic community. In any event, even if the AR saturation/downregulation theory that was originally proposed were true, how would changing drugs help? All aas use the same receptors.

 

[Davs]

is it lol


i don't think so

Maybea about the same. Just wait a couple years till the price comes down and no one will be trashing it anymore.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Test is both a class I and class II steroid. It is the standard that the others are compared to.

The type I and type II steroid theory has been disproven. The type one steroids (dbol, stano etc) were found to have their increase anabolic action, with an apparently lower AR affinity than their total increase in protien sythesis would suggest, is in fact due to the fact that the 17-aa molecule greatly increases their half-life in the bloodstream, thus giving these weaker androgens more time to bind to a receptor.
-BBF

 

[AlwaysOn]

Hair loss maybe, but gyno is listed as a possible side effect of proscar. Also, you theorize that decreased DHT increases estrogen...hmm.

thats why I said in my thread-starter to use a tiny bit of anti-aromatase.

I would use a dash of formestane and bake for 6-8 weeks