All I can speak of is what tren did for me personally. It gave me the body I thought I would never have. The first time I tried it, I tried to bulk along with other gear in the stack. I didn't notice its true power until the 2nd time I tried it, I did basically a cutting cycle before going to the beach. Keep in mind that I'm the kind of guy who has been kind of fatty all my life, a true endomorph. My entire family is giant fatties. I thought tren would help me get close to the body I'd like to have, but never did I believe that in a mere 8 weeks doing my cutter, that tren would give me a body I couldn't stop looking at in the mirror from sheer disbelief. My wife, my friends, everyone was like WTF how did he do that??? I worked hard of course, but tren is truly an amazing substance and I'll always be grateful for its existance.