Why peptides you use should be from a recombinant DNA source and not ... (*MUST READ*)

[j_p]

Why peptides you use should be from a recombinant DNA source and not a chemically synthesized source

I want to bring something up about peptides and peptide quality. I see many people going the cheap route but there is a reason that they may be simply wasting their money. That is why I wanted to start a thread about an issue I think is going on related to efficacy of chemically synthesized IGF and most other peptides vs. recombinantly made ones.

There are many threads on here about IGF-1 and other peps giving good gains and I feel some of it may be BS or the person is having a "placebo affect", while others swear peptides are a complete scam and do nothing at all! (not true)... There might be a reason your igf1 cycle didn't give you jack shit?

Why?

I believe most are purchasing IGF-1 (for an example of a popular peptide being used) made by cheap peptide synthesis companies. However, chemical synthesis of IGF-1 lacks the correct disulfide bonds that cause the proper folding and function in the peptide chain. IGF-1 and its many analogs require 3 disulfide bonds to generate the correct folded form of the protein and this can only be accomplished in the body as naturally produced, or in E.coli bacteria as a recombinant source which is similar to how HGH is made (recombinantly).

Insulin is also very similar to the structure of IGF-1 and it also is inactive and/or unstable if synthesized chemically, it has to be made recombinantly or extracted from a biologic source (they used to extract insulin from bovine and HGH from cadavers).
Made with "recombinant DNA" means it is made in bacteria which have data input into it and "fermented" create enzymes that make these intramolecular disulfide bonds so that the protein folds into the right configuration and has the biological function it is supposed to have, having the proper amino chain is NOT enough and it is NOT that simple!

If you look into human clinical trials or current clinical treatment of patients, they now use some of these peptides as part of a therapy protocol and they use recombinant DNA made peptides, not chemically synthesized ones and for good reason.

Here is just one of many studies on how important the correct bonds are, not just the structure>
Role of native disulfide bonds in the structure... [Biochemistry. 1993] - PubMed - NCBI > Role of native disulfide bonds in the structure... [Biochemistry. 1993] - PubMed - NCBI


There are many cheap peptide sellers popping out like CRAZY the last couple years with ridiculously low prices that just doesn't make any sense. So I say if it seems too good to be true, then it probably is!
There is a reason some places are so cheap while others can cost more than 2X or 3X the amount of the cheaper places.

You usually get what you pay for so PLEASE do your research first!

Just because it's pricy doesn't automatically mean its top quality, you still need to research the company.
But if it is really cheap then I would just avoid it because the chances of it being properly made are minimal in this case. IMO

There is a flood of shotty quality peptides coming from china, BE SAFE AND AVOID!

What you want is the more expensive recombinant DNA made peptides! NOT the cheaply made, unstable and largely biologically inactive chemically synthesized peptides!

Many don't even have a clue about all this and that is why I am posting this thread.

Hope it helps someone!


Cheers

 

[polarbear1134]

You left out that about 75% of places get it from the same 3-4 suppliers and just slap their label on it. Quite often the difference between a $30 bottle and a $100 bottle is nothing more than the label on the outside.
I can tell you that GHRP 2 and 6 and cjc1295 (real with dac) you can all feel within 10min of taking it. If you can't toss the stuff and try someplace else.

 

[Pepe Le-r3]

Not asking for a source, but any tips on finding a quality source? Any thoughts on quality Mk 677? Got some from blackstone labs instead of a research company. Any thoughts on the supplement companies vs research companies for things like this?

 

[tballz]

Probably the best peptide and rc source just came on board here as a sponsor. They have been around for as long as I can remember for good reason.

 

[polarbear1134]

Not asking for a source, but any tips on finding a quality source? Any thoughts on quality Mk 677? Got some from blackstone labs instead of a research company. Any thoughts on the supplement companies vs research companies for things like this?

Order a single vial from somewhere and see if you can feel it. Check reviews of course.

Couple ways to see if it was made oversees...
1) if it's not vaccume inside that means it was likely shipped by plane from over seas
2) put rubbing alcohol on a cotton ball and rub the top after you take the lid off. If it turns grey that means poor control and tons of polution where it was made toss it and buy someplace else.

 

[Pepe Le-r3]

Wow, nice info! Thank you for that, I've never heard of doing those things!

 

[j_p]

Not asking for a source, but any tips on finding a quality source? Any thoughts on quality Mk 677? Got some from blackstone labs instead of a research company. Any thoughts on the supplement companies vs research companies for things like this?

look for places that have been around for a while AND have over 90% positive review ( you will always get a complainer no matter how good something might be) i only use a couple places now for years, one is RUI which is here so I would openly rec them.

as for supp vs. RC companies. these supp companies put the whole RC industry at risk with their reckless selling of RC's as supps! it piss's me the $*&@ off and i see it more and more. do they not think FDA will not come to them? then what? they look at actual research companies and hassle them too? I would not buy a single thing from a supp company that i notice selling RC's as supplements because I will not support such a reckless and stupid approach.... open an RC only shop or stick to supps! (sorry it hits a nerve with me : $ )

as for MK677, its not a peptide like some may think, but it works ALOT LIKE GHRP2, the struckture is different though. I think its a very promising compound and have used it in past, though not for very long due to personal reason not related to the compound. but it was like ghrp IMO
I think tb500 , Mod GRF and mk677 would be a KILLER combo. but even just mk or MK and Mod GRF would be super IMO.
MK677 is new to hit popularity and i dont see it slowing down anytime soon.

I will update some of my other threads with these compounds in time as they are more explored.

hope thats of help : )

 

[j_p]

Order a single vial from somewhere and see if you can feel it. Check reviews of course.

Couple ways to see if it was made oversees...
1) if it's not vaccume inside that means it was likely shipped by plane from over seas
2) put rubbing alcohol on a cotton ball and rub the top after you take the lid off. If it turns grey that means poor control and tons of polution where it was made toss it and buy someplace else.

no offence but #1 and #2 statements are beyond silly...

plus the lid is on already on the lid, they dont add it after... it comes made like that... polution or not, if anything poor quality rubber stopper maybe... and vaccume can vary for MANY differing reasons...

 

[polarbear1134]

no offence but #1 and #2 statements are beyond silly...

plus the lid is on already on the lid, they dont add it after... it comes made like that... polution or not, if anything poor quality rubber stopper maybe... and vaccume can vary for MANY differing reasons...

Buy from where you want and believe what you want. If the top of your vial comes dirty where from pollution or as you put it poor quality stopper enjoy your infection.
Btw many of the suppliers that admit to be over seas will tell you right in their faq that they will come not vacuum sealed because they are going to ship them by plane.
The ones that come local are always vacuum sealed.

 

[j_p]

Actually # 1 has been admitted by many peptide sellers and some even post it in their faq not to worry if you order several types of vials and 1 of them is not vaccume packed as it just means they had to ship it in. That you don't ship vaccume sealed vials on planes.

could me from differing altitude when bottling that causes vaccume (i have gotten things from china and they had vac, and othe rplaces)

could be purposefully made vac due to peptide

could be no vac due to not doing it

could be due to having similar altitude to NOT have vac when got it.
could be manythings man...
i know for fact i have gottin things from plane WITH vac AND without over the years.

 

[j_p]

Buy from where you want and believe what you want. If the top of your vial comes dirty where from pollution or as you put it poor quality stopper enjoy your infection.
Btw many of the suppliers that admit to be over seas will tell you right in their faq that they will come not vacuum sealed because they are going to ship them by plane.
The ones that come local are always vacuum sealed.

admit or "excuse" ...due to crappier tops and the planes pressure letting out vac in vial during transport?
and i have had local without and with man... iv been at this game for many years...
some will also say "cjc 1293 w/o dac" at shop... guess what both CJC 1295 and 1293 HAVE dac, one is faster than other but both have dac and alot of these places are selling MOD GRF and calling it cjc 1293 w/o dac and that doesnt even freaking exist! i know chemists and even peptide synthesizers... you would be surprised how many shops actually dont know their products very well and are just in it for the $...
am i saying I know more than alot of these RC shops? yes I actually am.... same with endocrinologists and many docs i have met...

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

You cant believe what these stores tell you as far as how to determine quality of course. Thats absurd.
JP is right. Your best bet is to go with a company that will outright tell you that they use recombinant synthesized (where necessary), US made peps. Guess what, there are only 2 companies I know of that will outright state this openly! That in and of itself speaks volumes! The company I use provides peptides to Universities for some of their research programs, that tells me all I need to know. When you see IGF that is cheap- that right there tells you it isnt recombinant dna synthesized and is absolutely useless once injected. Its an expensize process to manufacture peptides properly- too cheap = garbage.

 

[Pepe Le-r3]

How did you come across a source that provides chems to Universities? I'm looking at adding PEG MGF for my non workout days. Should I ask my advanced chem teacher? Haha
It perplexes me why Mk 677 is considered a sarm rather than a ghrp.

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

How did you come across a source that provides chems to Universities? I'm looking at adding PEG MGF for my non workout days. Should I ask my advanced chem teacher? Haha
It perplexes me why Mk 677 is considered a sarm rather than a ghrp.

Its incorrectly marketed as a sarm. Its a marketing scam by some shady companies.
You have to do due diligence. You find studies using the peptides done by universities, then you find out the source. In a full study the source will be listed in most cases. Its that simple.

 

[Pepe Le-r3]

I guess I never realized that, what part of the study is it usually located? The acknowledgements?

 

[polarbear1134]

You cant believe what these stores tell you as far as how to determine quality of course. Thats absurd.
JP is right. Your best bet is to go with a company that will outright tell you that they use recombinant synthesized (where necessary), US made peps. Guess what, there are only 2 companies I know of that will outright state this openly! That in and of itself speaks volumes! The company I use provides peptides to Universities for some of their research programs, that tells me all I need to know. When you see IGF that is cheap- that right there tells you it isnt recombinant dna synthesized and is absolutely useless once injected. Its an expensize process to manufacture peptides properly- too cheap = garbage.

I can't believe you don't realize them saying they are US made peps is worthless as 99% of the places claiming they have US made peps don't and are just a local label reshipper for the same over seas ones you are saying not to use. In case you haven't noticed these places will say and claim anything to make a sale.
Out of 6 places I have tried only 1 had quality and I strongly suspect that 3 of them didn't even have in the vials what was supposed to be there. Every one of them claimed all kinds of nice sounding stuff like sending you the mass spec on their stuff...

There is absolutely nothing any site can say that is worth a damn as they can type anything they want on their site. The things that matter are the things said on independent forum and reviews . I promise any webmaster can say anything they want on a site doing grey market sales.

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

I can't believe you don't realize them saying they are US made peps is worthless as 99% of the places claiming they have US made peps don't and are just a local label reshipper for the same over seas ones you are saying not to use. In case you haven't noticed these places will say and claim anything to make a sale.
Out of 6 places I have tried only 1 had quality and I strongly suspect that 3 of them didn't even have in the vials what was supposed to be there. Every one of them claimed all kinds of nice sounding stuff like sending you the mass spec on their stuff...

There is absolutely nothing any site can say that is worth a damn as they can type anything they want on their site. The things that matter are the things said on independent forum and reviews . I promise any webmaster can say anything they want on a site doing grey market sales.

The difference is I know how to find out if it is true so before you tell me what I cant know or not know relax a bit. Im not some wet behind the ears moron. I have been in this game for over 20 years and know the pep/rc and supp business like the back of my hand. I not only know the peps I get are made in the US, I know they supply several universities in studies using various peptides. Their quality is second to none. Now, the reason it is a good thing that a company will openly state their peptides are recombinant dna synthesized is that they are sticking out their neck AND they know what the hell they are talking about. 90% of pep resellers (cause thats all most are- resellers of others products) dont even know what recombinant dna synthesized and properly folded IGF even means or is.
I agree mass spec daata isnt worth the paper itss printed on. Quality peps in that case is just 5 mins in MS paint away - if you know whaat I mean.
You have to do your homework and research. There are a couple (and only a couple) quality peptide sites out there- the rest s Chinese relabeled garbage BUT you cant go by paint smearing off of the top to verify jack shit man. Cmon.

 

[j_p]

^^^ I agree most places claiming "USA made" are full of it.. they are just reshippers of crappy Chinese made crap. but there are some that are. how do you know? well first things first, TRACK RECORD! if the place has been around for say 1 year.. why believe anything they say!? if the place has been around for over 10 years and selling to universities and has a good track record and testing to insure their consistent quality then i would go with them!
there are a couple places I use and i feel they are likely the same as jimmy uses as we have both been in this for many years.
There ARE atleast a couple places that are good and i use them and know they been around over 10 years, maybe 15 im not sure but i know for a fact over 10 since i have been using them about this long personally.
id say 90% of these pep places now are but cash grabs and its a shame... giving people peps or RC's that are not made properly to have a decent effect,,, its a real shame... They dont usually last long, but people see a good price and start buyin crap and they milk it as long as they can before changing their names and being a "new shop" to go and do it all over again IMO.

Doe your RESEARCH:

How long have they been around

stick to places that have been around for many years, not months..

Reviews (keep in mind there are alot of places that make fake reviews)

input from people you know or know on a forum on the place if they know it

testing (although like jimmy said this can be faked)

I'm not big on doing too many source checks but; anyone reading this- plz feel free to pm me on a place your researching or unsure of and if i know something ill help out, good or bad. I have been around the game for many years so might as well put that to some use and help.
I hate seeing people get ripped off!!!

 

[techlogik]

Interesting you guys bring up the point of HPLC and Mass spec. Ask your "well known" US suppliers, that you won't mention, but we know who you are referring, and they will all send you the exact same document. I mean, the pdf will be the same name, and all data is identical. So either the well know reputable sources you claim are 1) buying from one another, or 2) each sourcing from the same place, or 3) full of crap and do none of the above and all source from China or some other place and they aren't what you claim.

So if two well known "research" companies that have been around a long time and supposedly have a chemist on staff, or one at least claims to, and made in US, and they both provide the exact same HPLC doc...one can only conclude a few things as above.

Either one is legit, and serves the other/sells to the other and they relabel, or they are both full of garbage and making this up.

Also, none of them will tell you how they are manufacturing, either recombinent or otherwise. Interesting, because actual pharmaceutical companies will gladly provide and tell you this information, and often disclosed in their documentation. Ovidrel etc...is one example of that regarding rHCG.

Yet, they mysteries still remain about these guys. They use off shore CC processing merchants, the mystery and lack of info goes on an on with these people.