why nolva for PCT ?

[VictorBR]

If it is just to prevent gyno , wouldn't be bettter to use aromasin or arimidex which are much better anti-es ?


Victor

 

[GoldenDelicious]

youre mixed up

arimidex is an anti aromatase, and stops estrogen formation from aromatiseable hormones (eg test)

nolva on the other hand blocks the action of estrogen that has aleady formed

cheers

 

[VictorBR]

Ops I got it now , you are always helping me bro ...I will hit you with good karma

But so , what if I had formed no estrogen during my cycle ? Then , I wouldn't need nolva . I ask it because I will use aromasin during my whole cycle , so chances are that I will not form any estrogen in excess.. ( sp ? ) ...then nolva would be useless ?

Victor

 

[napolean22]

even though you used adex throughout your entire cycle, you would still need a Anti-E drug like clomid or nolvadex because when you come off the juice, your natural test is hovering around the ZERO mark...hence estrogen will go up. Which is where the anti-E drugs come in to play.

 

[VictorBR]

I got it ...but do I need CLOMID AND NOLVA for pct ? OR only one or another ?


Victor

 

[Cypptanon]

Nolva blocks the estrogen receptors and moderately stimulates the body's own production of testosterone. Clomid has a strong influence on stimulating the body's own testosterone production and will help your "boys" return to active duty.

Clomid is not an anabolic/androgenic steroid. Since it is a synthetic estrogen it belongs, however, to the group of sex hormones. In school medicine Clomid is normally used to trigger ovulation. Clomid also has a strong influence on the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis. It stimulates the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so that a faster and higher release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and LH (luteinizing hormone) occurs. This results in an elevated endogenous (body's own) testosterone level. Clomid is especially effective when the body's own testosterone production, due to the intake of anabolic/androgenic steroids, is suppressed. In most cases Clomid can normalize the testosterone level and the spermatogenesis (sperm development) within 10- 14 days. For this reason Clomid is primarily taken after steroids are discontinued. At this time it is extremely important to bring the testosterone production to a normal level as quickly as possible so that the loss of strength and muscle mass is minimized.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

one or the other, doesnt matter. nolva is becoming more favored these days because of less sides and less expense, apparently

the above 2 guys also have relevent info in their posts, but yeah, bottom line is that anti e's like nolva/clomid are used during cycle to counter gyno when symptoms present, or post cycle to hasten recovery

actually there are some guys who apparently use them during cycle as an extra test boost, but personally i wouldnt do this and save their impact for pct

cheers

and dont worry about k, not fussed

 

[VictorBR]

Got it ...if you say I gotta use one or the other , it doesn't matter...I think I will choose nolva over clomid , because I used clomid once and I became very , VERY emotional ....I was crying for my ex-girlfriend, when usually I was not giving a damn about her .....


Victor

 

[GoldenDelicious]

i say use the clomid, and rent out a whole bunch of chick flicks

im going to do that one day, just for a laugh

 

[Triple-G]

even though you used adex throughout your entire cycle, you would still need a Anti-E drug like clomid or nolvadex because when you come off the juice, your natural test is hovering around the ZERO mark...hence estrogen will go up. Which is where the anti-E drugs come in to play.

if you have a test level of zero, you will also have zero estrogen because males make estrogen only through aromatase. only females produce estrogen from the start (in their ovaries).
but in recovery test levels will rise and will form estrogen and this will dampen a fast recovery. using anti-e during pct will block one of two negative feedback loops and will speed up recovery.
estrogens have a life of not more than around one day, so both levels are closely correlated to each other.

 

[buckwheat1]

if you have a test level of zero, you will also have zero estrogen because males make estrogen only through aromatase. only females produce estrogen from the start (in their ovaries).
but in recovery test levels will rise and will form estrogen and this will dampen a fast recovery. using anti-e during pct will block one of two negative feedback loops and will speed up recovery.
estrogens have a life of not more than around one day, so both levels are closely correlated to each other.

triple got it. You really can't have estrogen with test. So if test is 0 then estrogen cannot be high.

Another point is that clomid/nolvadex does not "stimulate" LH or test production. . They prevent estrogen from inhibiting LH by binding to estrogen receptor in place of estrogen. Since they are weak estrogens the produce little or no suppression. If estrogen levels are 0, and you add clomid/nolvadex, then LH/test would not be increased If estrogen was not inhibiting LH , the nolva/clomid will not help.

Using A-dex and other aromatise inhibitors also increase LH and test because they reduce the amount of estrogen that can cause suppression.

 

[ProtienFiend]

how does endogeneous estrogen cause suppression?

 

[buckwheat1]

how does endogeneous estrogen cause suppression?

Both androgens and estrogen can cause suppression of the hpta. LH causes the testes to produce testostorone, some of the testosterone aromatizes into estrogen. The increase in estrogen then causes the suppression of LH which then causes less testosterone to be produced. When testosterone levels fall, the estrogen levels fall and the you have less suppression and more LH being released. The cycle continues.


I left out some things to make the example simple. But you should get the picture.

As mentionen in my earlier post, if estrogen is blocked in the hypothalmus using nolvadex or estrogen is reduced by using an aromatase inhibitor then testosterone levels will increase because of the lack of estrogen suppression.

But androgens levels can only increase so much before the androgens cause suppression of the hpta.

This is what happens when AAS is administered. Even if you administer AAS that does not convert into estrogen, the hpta will still be suppressed when the level of androgen gets to some point.

 

[ProtienFiend]

suppression of LH which then causes less testosterone to be produced

i appreciate the response

so LH controls testosterone? thats news to me...

 

[GoldenDelicious]

do a bit of reading, its kind of essential

there were some good flow diagrams of the hpta around the place, but i deleted them....do a google

cheers