why is american education so crappy?

[Code]

How does the government create problems within in young Americans that cause them to think they can skate through school and land a killer job?

Is the government creating obstacles that cause kids to skip school and not study?

i'm not looking for government to solve problems, they creat them
i pay taxes
i would rather my taxes go to education than to a war were thousands of kids are being killed

i question the spending pattern

 

[d3track]

How does the government create problems within in young Americans that cause them to think they can skate through school and land a killer job?

Is the government creating obstacles that cause kids to skip school and not study?

with the way it is set up, you could look at it that way
better teachers and better tools cost more money
right now our government is not ready to invest in our youth
so without investing in our youth, school becomes, "so what?"

maybe with our taxes we should have two boxes
I want my taxes to go to killing kids on war

I want my taxes to go to education and youth activities

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

better teachers and better tools cost more money

How do you know this?

The price of a widget is set by the market. So we know empirically that a good widget costs more than a not-so-good widget. We have this data with widgets. Or cars. Or rat poison, Or toilet paper. Or any good exchanged in a free market.

There is no free-market determinism for what a good teacher costs. So how can you say it costs more? Maybe it costs LESS, once the bureaucracy is removed. We just don't know, yet it is a common knee-jerk reaction to say 'spend more'. No one ever stops and thinks that high salaries attract bad teachers too.

There is no evidence to demonstrate what a good teacher costs. In fact, in many public schools, salaries are set by seniority and not merit, so it is even more difficult to determine what a good teacher costs. No effort is made to identify them.

Your basic assumption is inherently flawed.

right now our government is not ready to invest in our youth

what does "invest in our youth" mean? Is government like a surrogate parent? Should government step in for parents and destroy the family unit? What ever happened to individual rights? You never mention protecting those as a governmental goal.

so without investing in our youth, school becomes, "so what?"

Actually, school becomes 'so what' when government tells parents that Big Brother will be watching their kids 7 hours per day, and parents have no choice, and even if you don't have kids, you have to pay for it.

Sense any illogic there?

maybe with our taxes we should have two boxes
I want my taxes to go to killing kids on war
I want my taxes to go to education and youth activities

I sometimes wonder if you have a cardboard box over your head, and you;re watching a puppet show in there, and that is your reality. Your perception of the world is so amazingly simple. I'm sorta jealous I think. I want a puppet show too.

Anyway, I want my taxes back. I don't want them to go to educating other people's kids. I don't want them going to a school system that operates outside of a free market.

which box do I have to check for that?

 

[bluepeter]

How do you know this?

The price of a widget is set by the market. So we know empirically that a good widget costs more than a not-so-good widget. We have this data with widgets. Or cars. Or rat poison, Or toilet paper. Or any good exchanged in a free market.

There is no free-market determinism for what a good teacher costs. So how can you say it costs more? Maybe it costs LESS, once the bureaucracy is removed. We just don't know, yet it is a common knee-jerk reaction to say 'spend more'. No one ever stops and thinks that high salaries attract bad teachers too.

There is no evidence to demonstrate what a good teacher costs. In fact, in many public schools, salaries are set by seniority and not merit, so it is even more difficult to determine what a good teacher costs. No effort is made to identify them.

Your basic assumption is inherently flawed.




what does "invest in our youth" mean? Is government like a surrogate parent? Should government step in for parents and destroy the family unit? What ever happened to individual rights? You never mention protecting those as a governmental goal.



Actually, school becomes 'so what' when government tells parents that Big Brother will be watching their kids 7 hours per day, and parents have no choice, and even if you don't have kids, you have to pay for it.

Sense any illogic there?



I sometimes wonder if you have a cardboard box over your head, and you;re watching a puppet show in there, and that is your reality. Your perception of the world is so amazingly simple. I'm sorta jealous I think. I want a puppet show too.

Anyway, I want my taxes back. I don't want them to go to educating other people's kids. I don't want them going to a school system that operates outside of a free market.

which box do I have to check for that?

Are you willing to allocate your taxes to send other people's kids off to war? They aren't yours either.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Are you willing to allocate your taxes to send other people's kids off to war? They aren't yours either.

National security is an imperative that is constitutionally provided for. It's one of the few things ONLY government can provide. We all benefit from national security all the time.

Education has no constitutional mandate and is capably provided for by numerous private entities.

Thus, apples and oranges.

 

[the nature boy]

National security is an imperative that is constitutionally provided for. It's one of the few things ONLY government can provide. We all benefit from national security all the time.

Education has no constitutional mandate and is capably provided for by numerous private entities.

Thus, apples and oranges.

This is all find and dandy. However the fact remains that the education system is run by the government. And I don't see that changing in the near future. So the question remains, why is US public education crappy compared to European education for example. Certainly those schools are state run as well. Why is theirs better? What are they doing different?

 

[bluepeter]

National security is an imperative that is constitutionally provided for. It's one of the few things ONLY government can provide. We all benefit from national security all the time.

Education has no constitutional mandate and is capably provided for by numerous private entities.

Thus, apples and oranges.

Agreed but invading Iraq had nothing to do with National Security so are you happy with your tax dollars going down that toilet?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

This is all find and dandy. However the fact remains that the education system is run by the government. And I don't see that changing in the near future. So the question remains, why is US public education crappy compared to European education for example. Certainly those schools are state run as well. Why is theirs better? What are they doing different?

how can you state empirically that theirs is "better"?

Maybe it is not.

Maybe with their smaller populations they can do more in a state run environemnt.

Maybe by stratifying kids at an early age, they don;t wate time trying to make stupid kids feel good.

Who knows? Is the comparison of any systems that are fundamentally different EVER valid?

And why, as a US taxpayer, do you (or I) give a shit about what some other country does? I just want a better product offered here.

 

[the nature boy]

how can you state empirically that theirs is "better"?

Maybe it is not.

Maybe with their smaller populations they can do more in a state run environemnt.

Maybe by stratifying kids at an early age, they don;t wate time trying to make stupid kids feel good.

Who knows? Is the comparison of any systems that are fundamentally different EVER valid?

And why, as a US taxpayer, do you (or I) give a shit about what some other country does? I just want a better product offered here.

I cannot state for certain that europe has a better education system. All my evidence is anecdotal.

However, if the European system is in fact better than US public eduction system, and if I have to still pay for other kids to go to school regardless if I like it or not, I would like to get the most bang for my buck. And emulating public school systems that are better than ours is better than doing nothing at all.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Agreed

Good.

invading Iraq had nothing to do with National Security so are you happy with your tax dollars going down that toilet?

I know this:

Iran and Saudi Arabia are cauldrons of terrorism. Now, right between them, is a country where a dictator was deposed, and will be tried and hopefully brought to justice.

Will the democratic Iraq work? Maybe yes, maybe no. In some areas it is; Iraqi forces are chasing militants down, taking action, etc.

I know that if it DOES work, oppressive regimes in Saudi Arabia and Iran are in trouble. And that's worth paying for.

So am I happy? the jury's still out.