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Why I Don't Eat Organic...

It is indeed more expensive to eat organic foodstuffs. Actually, it's more expensive just eating healthily. A bag of chips and a soda, in some instances, will cost less than the price of a bunch of asparagus.
 
its a good thing we're not real people here on the interwebs or I might be kind of pissed you were e-hitting on my friend
 
Well, nan has got a valid point though. The reason many folks don't eat organic (or healthy for that matter) is due to cost. There's an entire section dedicated to this very issue in the documentary "Food, Inc." and how obesity and diabetes is hitting the poor more than any other demographic group. Processed foods are cheaper because much of what goes into processed foods are subsidized by the gov't and kept artificially low. A typical meal in my household will consist of a meat, a green vegetable, and a carb source. A dinner that consists of an organic broiler, some broccoli, and perhaps some quinoa will most certainly cost more than if I was to go down to McDonalds and get value meals for everyone.
 
For those who DO eat organic, I recommend that you read your state's legal guidelines for what a farmer has to do, to call the crops "organic". In CA, it just boils down to us needing to ATTEMPT IN GOOD FAITH to remedy any pests or diseases naturally BEFORE using conventional chemicals. So it's very unlikely that anyone who thinks they're buying organic foods, is really getting chemical-free produce. The tolerances for things like rat & mouse feces, are much looser too on organic. There is also no restriction on what water sources we can use for organic... meaning that if I wanted to, I could use radioactive water from the wells in Simi Valley for my irrigation, which of course I don't, but it's legal under "organic" rules.

Sure, I could call our avocados "organic", as we follow all the rules, but I'm honest and I have to sleep at night, and I think the whole "organic" food thing is a fraud on the public.



Read through this list of allowed substances to be put in "organic" (LOL) crops, copied & pasted directly from the 2012 USDA government site:

§ 205.601 Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production

(a) As algicide, disinfectants, and sanitizer, including irrigation system cleaning systems.
(1) Alcohols.
(i) Ethanol.
(ii) Isopropanol.
(2) Chlorine materials— Except, That, residual chlorine levels in the water shall not exceed the maximum residual disinfectant limit under the Safe Drinking Water Act.
(i) Calcium hypochlorite.
(ii) Chlorine dioxide.
(iii) Sodium hypochlorite.
(3) Copper sulfate—for use as an algicide in aquatic rice systems, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to those which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.
(4) Hydrogen peroxide.
(5) Ozone gas—for use as an irrigation system cleaner only.
(6) Peracetic acid—for use in disinfecting equipment, seed, and asexually propagated planting material.
(7) Soap-based algicide/demossers.
(b) As herbicides, weed barriers, as applicable.
(1) Herbicides, soap-based—for use in farmstead maintenance (roadways, ditches, right of ways, building perimeters) and ornamental crops.
(2) Mulches.
(i) Newspaper or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.
(ii) Plastic mulch and covers (petroleum-based other than polyvinyl chloride (PVC)).
(c) As compost feedstocks—Newspapers or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.
(d) As animal repellents—Soaps, ammonium—for use as a large animal repellant only, no contact with soil or edible portion of crop.
(e) As insecticides (including acaricides or mite control).
(1) Ammonium carbonate—for use as bait in insect traps only, no direct contact with crop or soil.
(2) Boric acid—structural pest control, no direct contact with organic food or crops.
(3) Copper sulfate—for use as tadpole shrimp control in aquatic rice production, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to levels which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.
(4) Elemental sulfur.
(5) Lime sulfur—including calcium polysulfide.
(6) Oils, horticultural—narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.
(7) Soaps, insecticidal.
(8) Sticky traps/barriers.
(9) Sucrose octanoate esters (CAS #s—42922–74–7; 58064–47–4)—in accordance with approved labeling.
(f) As insect management. Pheromones.
(g) As rodenticides.
(1) Sulfur dioxide—underground rodent control only (smoke bombs).
(2) Vitamin D3.
(h) As slug or snail bait. Ferric phosphate (CAS # 10045–86–0).
(i) As plant disease control.
(1) Coppers, fixed—copper hydroxide, copper oxide, copper oxychloride, includes products exempted from EPA tolerance, Provided, That, copper-based materials must be used in a manner that minimizes accumulation in the soil and shall not be used as herbicides.
(2) Copper sulfate—
(3) Hydrated lime.
(4) Hydrogen peroxide.
(5) Lime sulfur.
(6) Oils, horticultural, narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.
(7) Peracetic acid—for use to control fire blight bacteria.
(8) Potassium bicarbonate.
(9) Elemental sulfur.
(10) Streptomycin, for fire blight control in apples and pears only.
(11) Tetracycline (oxytetracycline calcium complex), for fire blight control only.
(j) As plant or soil amendments.
(1) Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed)—Extraction process is limited to the use of potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.
(2) Elemental sulfur.
(3) Humic acids—naturally occurring deposits, water and alkali extracts only.
(1) Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed)—Extraction process is limited to the use of potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.
(2) Elemental sulfur.
(3) Humic acids—naturally occurring deposits, water and alkali extracts only.
(4) Lignin sulfonate—chelating agent, dust suppressant, floatation agent.
(5) Magnesium sulfate—allowed with a documented soil deficiency.
(6) Micronutrients—not to be used as a defoliant, herbicide, or desiccant. Those made from nitrates or chlorides are not allowed. Soil deficiency must be documented by testing.
(i) Soluble boron products.
(ii) Sulfates, carbonates, oxides, or silicates of zinc, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, and cobalt.
(7) Liquid fish products—can be pH adjusted with sulfuric, citric or phosphoric acid.
. The amount of acid used shall not exceed the minimum needed to lower the pH to 3.5.
(8) Vitamins, B1, C, and E.
(k) As plant growth regulators. Ethylene gas—for regulation of pineapple flowering.
(l) As floating agents in postharvest handling.
(1) Lignin sulfonate.
(2) Sodium silicate—for tree fruit and fiber processing.
(m) As synthetic inert ingredients as classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), for use with nonsynthetic substances or synthetic substances listed in this section and used as an active pesticide ingredient in accordance with any limitations on the use of such substances.
(1) EPA List 4—Inerts of Minimal Concern.
(2) EPA List 3—Inerts of Unknown Toxicity allowed:
(i) Glycerine Oleate (Glycerol monooleate) (CAS #s 37220–82–9)—for use only until December 31, 2006.
(ii) Inerts used in passive pheromone dispensers.
(n) Seed preparations. Hydrogen chloride (CAS # 7647–01–0)—for delinting cotton seed for planting.
(o)–(z) [Reserved]
[65 FR 80637, Dec. 21, 2000

SOURCE: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5068682
 
kx250rider said:
For those who DO eat organic, I recommend that you read your state's legal guidelines for what a farmer has to do, to call the crops "organic". In CA, it just boils down to us needing to ATTEMPT IN GOOD FAITH to remedy any pests or diseases naturally BEFORE using conventional chemicals. So it's very unlikely that anyone who thinks they're buying organic foods, is really getting chemical-free produce. The tolerances for things like rat & mouse feces, are much looser too on organic. There is also no restriction on what water sources we can use for organic... meaning that if I wanted to, I could use radioactive water from the wells in Simi Valley for my irrigation, which of course I don't, but it's legal under "organic" rules.

Sure, I could call our avocados "organic", as we follow all the rules, but I'm honest and I have to sleep at night, and I think the whole "organic" food thing is a fraud on the public.



Read through this list of allowed substances to be put in "organic" (LOL) crops, copied & pasted directly from the 2012 USDA government site:

§ 205.601 Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production

(a) As algicide, disinfectants, and sanitizer, including irrigation system cleaning systems.
(1) Alcohols.
(i) Ethanol.
(ii) Isopropanol.
(2) Chlorine materials— Except, That, residual chlorine levels in the water shall not exceed the maximum residual disinfectant limit under the Safe Drinking Water Act.
(i) Calcium hypochlorite.
(ii) Chlorine dioxide.
(iii) Sodium hypochlorite.
(3) Copper sulfate—for use as an algicide in aquatic rice systems, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to those which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.
(4) Hydrogen peroxide.
(5) Ozone gas—for use as an irrigation system cleaner only.
(6) Peracetic acid—for use in disinfecting equipment, seed, and asexually propagated planting material.
(7) Soap-based algicide/demossers.
(b) As herbicides, weed barriers, as applicable.
(1) Herbicides, soap-based—for use in farmstead maintenance (roadways, ditches, right of ways, building perimeters) and ornamental crops.
(2) Mulches.
(i) Newspaper or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.
(ii) Plastic mulch and covers (petroleum-based other than polyvinyl chloride (PVC)).
(c) As compost feedstocks—Newspapers or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.
(d) As animal repellents—Soaps, ammonium—for use as a large animal repellant only, no contact with soil or edible portion of crop.
(e) As insecticides (including acaricides or mite control).
(1) Ammonium carbonate—for use as bait in insect traps only, no direct contact with crop or soil.
(2) Boric acid—structural pest control, no direct contact with organic food or crops.
(3) Copper sulfate—for use as tadpole shrimp control in aquatic rice production, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to levels which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.
(4) Elemental sulfur.
(5) Lime sulfur—including calcium polysulfide.
(6) Oils, horticultural—narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.
(7) Soaps, insecticidal.
(8) Sticky traps/barriers.
(9) Sucrose octanoate esters (CAS #s—42922–74–7; 58064–47–4)—in accordance with approved labeling.
(f) As insect management. Pheromones.
(g) As rodenticides.
(1) Sulfur dioxide—underground rodent control only (smoke bombs).
(2) Vitamin D3.
(h) As slug or snail bait. Ferric phosphate (CAS # 10045–86–0).
(i) As plant disease control.
(1) Coppers, fixed—copper hydroxide, copper oxide, copper oxychloride, includes products exempted from EPA tolerance, Provided, That, copper-based materials must be used in a manner that minimizes accumulation in the soil and shall not be used as herbicides.
(2) Copper sulfate—
(3) Hydrated lime.
(4) Hydrogen peroxide.
(5) Lime sulfur.
(6) Oils, horticultural, narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.
(7) Peracetic acid—for use to control fire blight bacteria.
(8) Potassium bicarbonate.
(9) Elemental sulfur.
(10) Streptomycin, for fire blight control in apples and pears only.
(11) Tetracycline (oxytetracycline calcium complex), for fire blight control only.
(j) As plant or soil amendments.
(1) Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed)—Extraction process is limited to the use of potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.
(2) Elemental sulfur.
(3) Humic acids—naturally occurring deposits, water and alkali extracts only.
(1) Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed)—Extraction process is limited to the use of potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.
(2) Elemental sulfur.
(3) Humic acids—naturally occurring deposits, water and alkali extracts only.
(4) Lignin sulfonate—chelating agent, dust suppressant, floatation agent.
(5) Magnesium sulfate—allowed with a documented soil deficiency.
(6) Micronutrients—not to be used as a defoliant, herbicide, or desiccant. Those made from nitrates or chlorides are not allowed. Soil deficiency must be documented by testing.
(i) Soluble boron products.
(ii) Sulfates, carbonates, oxides, or silicates of zinc, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, and cobalt.
(7) Liquid fish products—can be pH adjusted with sulfuric, citric or phosphoric acid.
. The amount of acid used shall not exceed the minimum needed to lower the pH to 3.5.
(8) Vitamins, B1, C, and E.
(k) As plant growth regulators. Ethylene gas—for regulation of pineapple flowering.
(l) As floating agents in postharvest handling.
(1) Lignin sulfonate.
(2) Sodium silicate—for tree fruit and fiber processing.
(m) As synthetic inert ingredients as classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), for use with nonsynthetic substances or synthetic substances listed in this section and used as an active pesticide ingredient in accordance with any limitations on the use of such substances.
(1) EPA List 4—Inerts of Minimal Concern.
(2) EPA List 3—Inerts of Unknown Toxicity allowed:
(i) Glycerine Oleate (Glycerol monooleate) (CAS #s 37220–82–9)—for use only until December 31, 2006.
(ii) Inerts used in passive pheromone dispensers.
(n) Seed preparations. Hydrogen chloride (CAS # 7647–01–0)—for delinting cotton seed for planting.
(o)–(z) [Reserved]
[65 FR 80637, Dec. 21, 2000

SOURCE: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5068682
Click to expand...

We just got "certification" on our small market garden, so yes, I know where you're going with this. Of course one has to be aware. We don't simply buy our goods because there's an "organic" label on the item. We're fortunate enough to live in a rural area where we know many of the sources and their practices.

And if there's one thing "organic" is doing right, it's not taking fertile soil and turning it toxic with the repeated application of chemical fertilizers, which then runs off and poisons water sources with all the nitrogen. Our gardens use compost, manure, and other such organics for fertilizers.
 
WoodyO said:
I've been inside a meat processing plant. Chemicals are the least of your worries.
Click to expand...

^^^this


how were you able to eat meat after going through that? I know a guy who was an avid hunter and had no issue's killing and processing his kill basically on the spot. But one trip through one of those plants and he had problems keeping meat down for a couple months. Never fully talked about it either.
 
simply dave said:
Well, nan has got a valid point though. The reason many folks don't eat organic (or healthy for that matter) is due to cost. There's an entire section dedicated to this very issue in the documentary "Food, Inc." and how obesity and diabetes is hitting the poor more than any other demographic group. Processed foods are cheaper because much of what goes into processed foods are subsidized by the gov't and kept artificially low. A typical meal in my household will consist of a meat, a green vegetable, and a carb source. A dinner that consists of an organic broiler, some broccoli, and perhaps some quinoa will most certainly cost more than if I was to go down to McDonalds and get value meals for everyone.
Click to expand...

People value time over their health waaay too much and prefer to eat something bad that is easy and quick than something healthy they have to prepare themselves in a larger amount of time.
People who eat at McDonalds and such know perfectly well it's shit food and it's bad for them but they chose to eat it anyway, people have to differentiate between a meal and a treat, fast food should be an occasional treat and not part of your essential meals/diet, that's where failure comes in, when it's late at night (worst time to eat this stuff)or it's lunch time and you forgot to cook so you go buy a McD combo.

If you add price in the mix it makes it even harder for some to eat better, I know a mcdouble is a buck and so s a can of tuna, but you eat the burguer as is, the tuna on the other hand needs preparation and other things so not only does it consume more money but also more time...
 
nangiggles said:
People value time over their health waaay too much and prefer to eat something bad that is easy and quick than something healthy they have to prepare themselves in a larger amount of time.
People who eat at McDonalds and such know perfectly well it's shit food and it's bad for them but they chose to eat it anyway, people have to differentiate between a meal and a treat, fast food should be an occasional treat and not part of your essential meals/diet, that's where failure comes in, when it's late at night (worst time to eat this stuff)or it's lunch time and you forgot to cook so you go buy a McD combo.

If you add price in the mix it makes it even harder for some to eat better, I know a mcdouble is a buck and so s a can of tuna, but you eat the burguer as is, the tuna on the other hand needs preparation and other things so not only does it consume more money but also more time...
Click to expand...
It's a matter of choice.

People are free to eat what they want.

People can be fooled (like me!) to think that their entertainment is more important then healthy food.
 
I agree with kx25Orider. Years ago when I bought organic foods, they were rotting at the store. They also were bland and tasteless, for the most part. Now, when I buy "organic" everything is pristine and fresh and lasts almost as long as regular store-bought. I have recently decided not to even buy from my farmers' market for this reason. Especially fruit seems to last as long as store-bought. I'm not convinced at all that it's truly organic. Ever grow any of your own vegs.? You'd better eat them as soon as they're plucked or they'll rot. I've sworn off of organic. Besides, the amount of pesticides used is so small, humans can handle it. I also want my immune system to be able to become "immune" to things like pesticides, bus/car fumes, cell phone/electric tower cancers, etc. It does a body good. Give it a little crap once in a while.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ceo
EnderJE said:
We know you can afford it. You use Android phones. Can I get your karma when you get cancer?

:)

There's no farmer's market near you or you can grow your own?
Click to expand...
LOL, virgin mobile is gonna have prepaid Iphone 4S soon, LOL I'm still not getting one :D

I've been known to even kill cactus and succulents :worried:
 
free range beef for sure... otherwise i normally eat frozen veggies, or out of my own garden during the summer
 
redsamurai said:
^^^this


how were you able to eat meat after going through that? I know a guy who was an avid hunter and had no issue's killing and processing his kill basically on the spot. But one trip through one of those plants and he had problems keeping meat down for a couple months. Never fully talked about it either.
Click to expand...

Your friend probably didn't see the worst of it either. The killing floor is where the magic happens, and that area is usually keep very top secret.
 
ever seen a person killed?? snuff films are still accessible, I can't wont watch them, did for a short time in my life, still they haunt.. but if need be, I know that I'd kill a person without hesitation...

It's conditioning from an early age..

It is who we are
 
SpyWizard said:
ever seen a person killed?? snuff films are still accessible, I can't wont watch them, did for a short time in my life, still they haunt.. but if need be, I know that I'd kill a person without hesitation...

It's conditioning from an early age..

It is who we are
Click to expand...

Yes, (foolish) curiosity occasionally gets the better of me, and I've looked at beheadings and executions on sites like Ogrish.

I'm also interested in Mexico's drug war, so I look ate the unedited video's and picture on Blog Del Narco (again, foolishly).
 
nangiggles said:
Because I cant afford 30-70% more on the price tag...

Discuss :coffee:
Click to expand...
Organic red meats are pricey as hell, no question. At least Perdue feeds a diet that is vegetarian and without hormones, while a little more expensive than "generic" chicken, also safer. More stores are offering fresh produce that is local that is comparable, if not cheaper, than stuff that's been shipped 1,000 miles or more. The cost of organic/free range eggs is higher than a regular dozen but totally worth the extra dollar or two. It's getting easier to find milk that comes from cows that haven't been treated with bovine growth hormone that isn't priced out of this world.

No matter what, eating food that isn't processed is ALWAYS cheaper (AND healthier) than eating preprocessed, prepackaged foods. A bag of brown rice, fresh veggies and a whole chicken makes several meals and costs maybe $10. A container of oatmeal is what, $2? That lasts forever. Ground buffalo (which isn't treated with antibiotics or hormones) is about $7 a pound but if you make it into a casserole that can be several meals.

There's also lists of fruits and vegetables on the internet for people who want to reduce their chemical exposure by cutting out the stuff that's really contaminated but can't afford to go totally organic.
 
At my grocer they have organic bananas next to regular ones, ten cents more and they look identical. The snob in me buys the organic usually.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ceo
musclemom said:
Organic red meats are pricey as hell, no question. At least Perdue feeds a diet that is vegetarian and without hormones, while a little more expensive than "generic" chicken, also safer. More stores are offering fresh produce that is local that is comparable, if not cheaper, than stuff that's been shipped 1,000 miles or more. The cost of organic/free range eggs is higher than a regular dozen but totally worth the extra dollar or two. It's getting easier to find milk that comes from cows that haven't been treated with bovine growth hormone that isn't priced out of this world.

No matter what, eating food that isn't processed is ALWAYS cheaper (AND healthier) than eating preprocessed, prepackaged foods. A bag of brown rice, fresh veggies and a whole chicken makes several meals and costs maybe $10. A container of oatmeal is what, $2? That lasts forever. Ground buffalo (which isn't treated with antibiotics or hormones) is about $7 a pound but if you make it into a casserole that can be several meals.

There's also lists of fruits and vegetables on the internet for people who want to reduce their chemical exposure by cutting out the stuff that's really contaminated but can't afford to go totally organic.
Click to expand...


I do buy locally grown chicken, $1.79 a pound great fresh skinless boneless chicken breasts
 
example: I bought organic coconut yogurt 500 ml for $4, Regular coconut yogurt $4
You just need to be a wise shopper and know where to find the deals.

Organic avocados 5 for $3.50 Non Organic 5 for $5.50

I can go on all day

I only buy organic when I see it on sale. Otherwise, I just eat really clean and detox 2 x a yr so I feel pretty safe
 
Wow. Avocados are expensive in Canada. We have them everywhere in SD. 25 for $5.00 grown in bonsall.
 
WoodyO said:
Wow. Avocados are expensive in Canada. We have them everywhere in SD. 25 for $5.00 grown in bonsall.
Click to expand...

The cheapest here in FL is $1 per avocado, only a couple times a year
I know you can get some snacks or veggies at a semi decent price but as MM mentioned meats and poultry are another story

Sent from my VM670 using EliteFitness
 
Avocados are down right now due to the Chilean and Mexican imports. We harvested in April this year, and since we waited out the last glut with the avocados on the trees, ours were some of the biggest Hass from the area ;-). Wholesale was about $1 ea., or $2-2.50 each retail. Had they been "normal" size Ventura County Hass, they'd have been more like .70 ea wholesale/$1.50 ea. retail.

As for San Diego County avocados, those lucky son-of-a-gun growers aren't under Senator Boxer's Sacramento River Delta water embargo, which means they're paying about a third of what we are for water..... Our bill just came for the water we used for the month of May, and it's $2,300! That's for 12 acres declared for agriculture, which is 1100 trees.

Charles
 
shit if y'all live somewhere avocado's are that cheap, they should be like all you eat. One of the single best foods on earf
 
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