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why do you think you are better than animals?

decem

New member
or any other living creature on this earth?

this post is directed mostly toward hunters and those holy rollers that think their god only recognizes human..

so..


where does the fact that chimpanzees dna is almost identical to humans? (that question goes towards the anti-evolution posse)..

and what about the fact that geese mate for life.. and even if the mate dies.. the other goose won't mate again for as long as it lives.. (similar to some humans eh?)

and then there's the fact that most animals in the wild are raised and protected primarily by the mother.. which the same holds true for humans as well.. but then again.. there's some where the father does the majority of the raising/parenting.. again like some humans..

most males in most species compete in some fashion to win over a suitable female.. again like humans..

elephants are notorious for showing genuine concern for all those in their herd (or whatever they call it).. they'll work as a team to get a calf free from the mud in which it's stuck.. they'll spend days in sorrow at the sight of a herd member's death.. they have an amazing sense of memory..


ok.. i'm tired of typing.. it's time for some of you other fuckers to give some input.. so if anyone can give some more examples, general or specific, of how other species are similar to humans post up.. and all you turds who think it's so great to go out and kill any innocent being for fun or sport.. or who think your god only recognizes humans.. or who think you are "higher" than other creatures.. please post up and give some reasons...


NuGga
 
decem said:
and what about the fact that geese mate for life.. and even if the mate dies.. the other goose won't mate again for as long as it lives.. (similar to some humans eh?)



that is some cool stuff. i did not know that.
 
I think you're honestly misinformed about animals and their behavior. Yes, their behavior and ours has a lot in common. That includes violent behavior. Animals will kill for sport. I've seen cats do it to mice and chicks. I've seen dogs do it to rabbits, cats, and other dogs. I've seen chimpanzees do it to each other. Animals aren't all saintly and pure as the wind driven snow. They're living creatures that must kill to live (plant or animal). They care for their kind and kill their kind. They kill those that are different from them and not always for food. As said before, it may be for sport (fun) or for territory or for mating or for food or for water.

Animals are brutal. Humans are brutal. I'm better than them because I'm at the apex of the freakin' food chain. You and I and the rest of us are the current masters of the planet. You don't have to like it, you may not accept it, but it is the truth.

Intelligence rules!
 
We are animals. We are just lucky enough to be the smartest animal. Doesn't make us the best though.
 
I guess it's all about what you mean by better.

anyway, I think animals are better. for the most part they don't kill unessarily, they take from nature what they need, they have sex, and that's it. If the world should end, chances are it's going to be humans that are the cause of it, not animals.
 
Kahn said:
We are animals. We are just lucky enough to be the smartest animal. Doesn't make us the best though.

What makes you think we are the smartest???

And yes we are all animals.. It drives me crazy when people don't think that.
 
starfish said:


What makes you think we are the smartest???

we have internet access......duh :D
 
The Nature Boy said:
I guess it's all about what you mean by better.

anyway, I think animals are better. for the most part they don't kill unessarily, they take from nature what they need, they have sex, and that's it. If the world should end, chances are it's going to be humans that are the cause of it, not animals.

I hate to burst your bubble, but animals kill unnecessarily all the time. It is QUITE COMMON.

Oh yeah, the world is never going to end because of us. We may kill ourselves off, but Earth (and life in general on her) will be just fine. As Carlin once put it, "it'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas."
 
but in seriousness


biochemically we aren't...we have to eat our vitamin C (mice can), cant make our own antibiotics (crocs can) etc

mentally we are....we have higher brain function and brain controls created to giove intricate dexterity to our movement, and have physiology/anatomy to facilitate it

structurally we are relativly weak.....our skeketon on its own sucks, but muscles help :) but we arent built for as much punishment as other animals

morally....because our sentience we are capable of more evil. not to say animals arent either. but it can be said they dont hae the same moral center we do to even contemplate their actions. also one might define an animal as something that is purely instinct driven, acting on urges. whereas a human thinks about its urges,maybe writes something about them, then acts upon them :D
 
animals don't get triple threat, except my cat, "John Cocktosen," who is cooler than all you fuckers combined.
 
I listed some examples in my first post.

Cats. They will toy with "lesser" creatures such as mice, baby rabbits, chicks, even insects. Just for fun. And they'll kill them. I've seen cats get into chicken houses when the chicks were less than a week old. They will leave a pile of dead birds in there. They're not eaten, just all decapitated.

Dogs. Know anyone with pet rabbits? A dog will go into someone's yard with pet rabbits and kill everyone of them. It may chew on some, but will usually leave mangled and dead. Toys. For fun. Snuff toys. I've had people tell me about them doing this to puppies as well. And cats. (kind of writing on the fly as my memory is serving me so forgive me if I am redundant or forget something)

Chimps. These animals are truly brutal (just like us). These examples aren't of violence for play, but violence for mating, food, obedience, and power. A new alpha male will often kill all of the infants in a group because they're not his. Alpha males use violence to maintain order and obedience out of those lower down the totem pole. Chimps of lower rank will do the same to those lower in rank to themselves...right on down the line. Chimps will gang up and pummel a member of the group if he steps out of line (mating, food, challenge of pecking order). To attain power a chimp must show force and use force as needed to beat back any other challengers.

Chickens. I work with them. If one is hurt or down, the others will pick on it incessantly. They're freakin' mean as hell to those at the very bottom of the pecking order.

And I'm just getting started with things that I have personal experience with or have studied to some degree. I love animals. I have an Animal Science degree. I also support hunting because it serves an important function in controlling wildlife populations (especially white-tailed deer and canadian geese). If you think we're bad though, the animals have us licked. We have a much greater sense of compassion and we have morals that guide us. The cutest, fuzziest little critter can sometimes do things that are so vile, you're just left speechless. People just need to stop anthropomorphizing these critters.
 
I am better because I eat them. I am not at the top of the food chain so I can eat salads!!!!!!! Btw...you are a fag and I see that you changed your queerbait avatar.
 
How are we better?


We turn our backs on our fellow man all the time.
We hate because of something so simple as the color of someone's skin.
We ridicule others because we think they are weaker.
We take our vast knowledge and use it to destroy things not build things.


I've seen dogs take care of other dogs, yet people tell me that they don't have the same emotions that we do.

I've seen a dog chase a hawk away from a litter of kittens and then lay there and protect them.

I've seen a dog lay beside the grave of his mother and mourn his loss, just like a human.


I've never seen an animal show hatred for another animal.

So who is really better?
 
The origin of this thread revolved around hunting and why we should be able to do that because "we're better." In THAT CONTEXT, we are because we're apex predators.

The idea that animals were all lovey dovey was used in that emotional argument as well. That idea is patently false. It is a myth brought about by anthropomorphizing animals of all stripes (Bambi syndrome) and by animal rights activists as propaganda to drum up financial support.
 
The Dude said:
The origin of this thread revolved around hunting and why we should be able to do that because "we're better." In THAT CONTEXT, we are because we're apex predators.

The idea that animals were all lovey dovey was used in that emotional argument as well. That idea is patently false. It is a myth brought about by anthropomorphizing animals of all stripes (Bambi syndrome) and by animal rights activists as propaganda to drum up financial support.

PETA is cool:supercool :supercool :supercool
 
Orcas have been known to return seals they planned to eat back to the beach after they have had their fill for the day. Then again, ocras also play with their still living prey by tossing them in the air with their tails and launching them with their noses.
 
all I know is I love fluffy soft ones......


really,

I dig animals big time. Super interesting! Plus, the world would be so different without them
 
PETA, as the Sierra Club regularly does, lies. They tell people they are moderates, only interested in your dog and cat's welfare. To make sure zoos don't mistreat their animals, etc. What they don't tell you is that their core beliefs center around animals first. No pets. No eating meat (including fish, eggs, and by-products like cheese and WHEY protein!). No zoos. No leather shoes or purses or car seats. They fund ALF (animal liberation front) which is a TERRORIST group. They bomb laboratories and steal animals. If people get hurt in their quest to free animals from man, then so be it. It's worth the price to them. Ingrid Newkirk (sp. may be wrong on the last name) says she loves your doggy and your puddy, but when you turn your back on her after you give her a check for PETA, she'll be coming for them.

I'm not kidding folks. I have first hand experience with both PETA and the Sierra Club. I know what they say and what is the God's honest truth. They lie. They are so far off to the left, your head has to spin around a couple times to get there.
 
Whoa, they fund Alf? I like them even more.

But wait, I thought Alf ate cats.. do I smell a conflict of interest scandal brewing???
 
The Dude said:
PETA, as the Sierra Club regularly does, lies. They tell people they are moderates, only interested in your dog and cat's welfare. To make sure zoos don't mistreat their animals, etc. What they don't tell you is that their core beliefs center around animals first. No pets. No eating meat (including fish, eggs, and by-products like cheese and WHEY protein!). No zoos. No leather shoes or purses or car seats. They fund ALF (animal liberation front) which is a TERRORIST group. They bomb laboratories and steal animals. If people get hurt in their quest to free animals from man, then so be it. It's worth the price to them. Ingrid Newkirk (sp. may be wrong on the last name) says she loves your doggy and your puddy, but when you turn your back on her after you give her a check for PETA, she'll be coming for them.

I'm not kidding folks. I have first hand experience with both PETA and the Sierra Club. I know what they say and what is the God's honest truth. They lie. They are so far off to the left, your head has to spin around a couple times to get there.



You are off to the left.... Not everyone interested in animal rights is like that.. Don't take a couple of extreme circumstances and put us all in that category..
 
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Starfish, I'm talking about the core beliefs of the PETA organization and it's leaders. Don't fund and don't support them if you don't believe in what they're trying to accomplish.

And I'm "off to the left?" LOL. I guess you really haven't read a word I've typed in this thread or you don't know beans about political terminology.

One last thing about PETA. Were you aware that their wildlife sanctuary was shut down in the 80s by the government. Seems they neglected their animals. I'd call that abuse. Hypocrits, but dangerous hypocrits nonetheless. I typing no b.s. here about these folks. Please, please don't support them unless you want animal products and the animals themselves to be of NO part of your life.
 
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The Dude said:
Starfish, I'm talking about the core beliefs of the PETA organization and it's leaders. Don't fund and don't support them if you don't believe in what they're trying to accomplish.

And I'm "off to the left?" LOL. I guess you really haven't read a word I've typed in this thread or you don't know beans about political terminology.

One last thing about PETA. Were you aware that their wildlife sanctuary was shut down in the 80s by the government. Seems they neglected their animals. I'd call that abuse. Hypocrits, but dangerous hypocrits nonetheless. I typing no b.s. here about these folks. Please, please don't support them unless you want animal products and the animals themselves to be of NO part of your life.


What do you do for a living???

I have worked with animals ALL my life... Cats, dogs, lions to sharks... I think I understand a little bit about PETA. I also suppoort a lot of what they do...
 
I work for a poultry company as a service supervisor. We are a target of PETA and the Sierra Club. I know firsthand what they say goes on here and there and to this chicken or that chicken. Starfish, they lie. God do they lie. They say whatever they need to say to achieve their irrational goals.

Plus, if you support PETA, you must educate yourself about Ingrid Newkirk and the other leaders of the organization. They are extremists in their views. They don't say it to their donors on TV advertisements. If they did, everyone with a leather purse, milk in their fridge, or pet dog would walk the other way. Please, please do some research on their positions. I am animal lover too. I don't have a stomach for animal abuse. But I also eat meat and wear leather and drink protein shakes.

I'm not flinging b.s. your way to support my beliefs. I'm telling you what I know, what I've EXPERIENCED. Please take a closer look at them (and ALF).
 
The Dude said:
I work for a poultry company as a service supervisor. We are a target of PETA and the Sierra Club. I know firsthand what they say goes on here and there and to this chicken or that chicken. Starfish, they lie. God do they lie. They say whatever they need to say to achieve their irrational goals.

Plus, if you support PETA, you must educate yourself about Ingrid Newkirk and the other leaders of the organization. They are extremists in their views. They don't say it to their donors on TV advertisements. If they did, everyone with a leather purse, milk in their fridge, or pet dog would walk the other way. Please, please do some research on their positions. I am animal lover too. I don't have a stomach for animal abuse. But I also eat meat and wear leather and drink protein shakes.

I'm not flinging b.s. your way to support my beliefs. I'm telling you what I know, what I've EXPERIENCED. Please take a closer look at them (and ALF).


So your income is off of animals. That is what I was betting.... It's crystal clear to me know.

Look, I know there are extremists out there.. But to label everyone that way is just as left field. Is every pro life supporter going to bomb am abortion clinic? NO! Give me a break.


PETA has done a ton of good things for animal rights and they are getting better... Just look at their list of GROWING supporters.

The key word to me is People for the ETHICAL treatment of animals. A lot of cruel things are done to animals unnecessarily in the name of a $$$$... But hey it's the bottom line right...
 
Was looking all around and couldn't find anywhere that I posted that I think that I am better than animals...

People tend to assume that all Christians believe the same thing...or that all hunters do too...

B True
 
starfish said:



So your income is off of animals. That is what I was betting.... It's crystal clear to me know.

Look, I know there are extremists out there.. But to label everyone that way is just as left field. Is every pro life supporter going to bomb am abortion clinic? NO! Give me a break.


PETA has done a ton of good things for animal rights and they are getting better... Just look at their list of GROWING supporters.

The key word to me is People for the ETHICAL treatment of animals. A lot of cruel things are done to animals unnecessarily in the name of a $$$$... But hey it's the bottom line right...

An organization is driven by it's leaders, especially if they're it's founders. I'm not talking about some housewife that's a member because she loves her kitty. I'm talking about the people in charge of the whole show. Look into them and what they do with the money. You're not reading what I'm writing to make the statement that you did in your second paragraph. Also, yes I make my money off of animals. Just like veterinarians or zookeepers or pet groomers or dairy farmers or PETA employees. Everyone works for money honey.
 
There are extremes in everything.

Are there abuses of animals? Yes, of course.

There is the use of animals to test cosmetics. The conditions that animals are kept in on these huge corporate farms. All the drugs that are fed to theses animals to get them to market faster. The killing of animals for the sake of sport.


I think medical experiements on animals is an unfortunate necessity at this time. As long as the animals are treated with dignity and compassion I believe that it is ok. It might not be the most pleasent option, but unfortunately we don't always have the perfect option.


As far as hunting and fishing goes, I don't see a problem with that. I don't hunt, but I do like to go deep sea fishing sometimes and we always eat what we catch.
 
The Dude said:


An organization is driven by it's leaders, especially if they're it's founders. I'm not talking about some housewife that's a member because she loves her kitty. I'm talking about the people in charge of the whole show. Look into them and what they do with the money. You're not reading what I'm writing to make the statement that you did in your second paragraph. Also, yes I make my money off of animals. Just like veterinarians or zookeepers or pet groomers or dairy farmers or PETA employees. Everyone works for money honey.


Who said anything about a housewife who loves her kitty?? LOL...

Whatever.. go make some $$$$$$$$$$
 
big4life said:


How are we better?


1. We turn our backs on our fellow man all the time.
2. We hate because of something so simple as the color of someone's skin.
3. We ridicule others because we think they are weaker.
4. We take our vast knowledge and use it to destroy things not build things.

I've never seen an animal show hatred for another animal.

So who is really better?

1. Partially true, partially not. millions of charities exist to help people. Of the 2.2 trillion the US government collects annually, about 900 billion goes to 'welfare' or humanitarian causes on one level or another (Medicaid, medicare, Social security, student assistance).
2. none
3. none
4. Partially true. Antibiotics have saved close to 300 million lives in the last 1/2 of the 20th century. On the other hand, 178 million (something like that) have been killed by government sponsored purges in the 20th century. Carl Sagan has repeadly said that more lives have been saved by antibiotics (which have only existed since the early 1950's) than have been killed in all the wars since humanity started. I don't have the statistics on me, but i'm sure if you took all the deaths & amount of suffering that we experiences 200 years ago & compared it with today's suffering & death rate the rates would be much much lower. In the end, organic life is probably just a cosmic accident anyway, so live or die we probably won't have much effect on anything other than ourselves.
 
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starfish said:



Who said anything about a housewife who loves her kitty?? LOL...

Whatever.. go make some $$$$$$$$$$

It was a reference to the rank and file of the organization's membership. A lot of PETA's members are members because they're animal lovers. They didn't join to fund the radical agenda of PETA's leaders and founders.

Of course I'm going to go make some $$$$. I need to keep a roof of my head and be able to care for and feed my cat and dog. I adore them and, at work, I cannot and will not abide by anyone not taking care of their birds. One, because it's wrong. Two, because it costs us money. Did you ever stop and think that an uncomfortable animal doesn't perform as well as one that is taken care of very well. If a producer doesn't give his birds great care, his bank account suffers dramatically. Funny how PETA has never told you about that little FACT. Ask a farmer about the truth.
 
The Dude said:


It was a reference to the rank and file of the organization's membership. A lot of PETA's members are members because they're animal lovers. They didn't join to fund the radical agenda of PETA's leaders and founders.

Of course I'm going to go make some $$$$. I need to keep a roof of my head and be able to care for and feed my cat and dog. I adore them and, at work, I cannot and will not abide by anyone not taking care of their birds. One, because it's wrong. Two, because it costs us money. Did you ever stop and think that an uncomfortable animal doesn't perform as well as one that is taken care of very well. If a producer doesn't give his birds great care, his bank account suffers dramatically. Funny how PETA has never told you about that little FACT. Ask a farmer about the truth.

I'm not going to get in a pissing contest with you... PETA does not have to tell me anything... I have SEEN how animals are treated it. I can make my own decisions.


The key word to me is People for the ETHICAL treatment of animals. I am not in left field..

And if you are trying me animals have NEVER been treated in a horrible way for $$$$ by people in your industry, well try again..

Now excuse me while I go tie myself to a tree...
 
That is the NAME of the organizaton. However, the founders believe that the only ethical treatment of animals is that they not be used by humans in any way. That includes as pets. They've stated it on camera. I've seen Ingrid Newkirk and another PETA executive saying just that...on camera....their own words.

Look, not all animals are going to be treated perfectly. PETA didn't do it with their wildlife sanctuary after all. However, in order to get the most money from your animals, you must make them comfortable. It's just like bodybuilding. Do you think you'll make good progress if you don't eat right? If you have to work for water? If you're cold or hot most the time? If you can't sleep because of any number of uncomfortable conditions. Ethical treatment of animals = MONEY. PETA's ethical treatment of animals means no pets, leather belts, chicken breasts on your plate, etc.

Look these people up before you give them any more of your money! Learn where your money goes!!!
 
The Dude said:
That is the NAME of the organizaton. However, the founders believe that the only ethical treatment of animals is that they not be used by humans in any way. That includes as pets. They've stated it on camera. I've seen Ingrid Newkirk and another PETA executive saying just that...on camera....their own words.

Look, not all animals are going to be treated perfectly. PETA didn't do it with their wildlife sanctuary after all. However, in order to get the most money from your animals, you must make them comfortable. It's just like bodybuilding. Do you think you'll make good progress if you don't eat right? If you have to work for water? If you're cold or hot most the time? If you can't sleep because of any number of uncomfortable conditions. Ethical treatment of animals = MONEY. PETA's ethical treatment of animals means no pets, leather belts, chicken breasts on your plate, etc.

Look these people up before you give them any more of your money! Learn where your money goes!!!



ETHICAL treatment of animals does equal $$$$... BINGO!!
Too bad people want the $$$$ in their pocket.

I know exactly where my money goes thanks!!
 
They are really in left field here.... NOT!


PETA HALTS "MURDER KING" PROTESTS



Burger King Complies With Demand for Improved Animal Welfare Standards





For Immediate Release:
June 28, 2001



Contact:
Bruce Friedrich - 757-622-7382

Norfolk, Va. - PETA's "Murder King" Campaign, which has involved provocative ads, celebrity support from Alec Baldwin, James Cromwell, and Richard Pryor, and more than 800 protests at Burger King restaurants worldwide, has been called off following the fast-food giant's announcement today that it will exceed the animal welfare standards that PETA negotiated with McDonald's last year after similar protests. PETA is now eyeing other chains, such as Wendy's, as possible targets for animal welfare improvements.

Under Burger King's new guidelines, the company:

• will conduct unannounced inspections of its slaughterhouses and take action against those facilities that fail the inspections

• will establish animal-handling verification guidelines for all cattle, swine, and poultry slaughterhouses

• will give laying hens 75 square inches of cage space (3 inches more than McDonald's agreed to) and require that the birds be able to stand fully upright

• will require two water drinkers per cage

• will stop purchasing from suppliers who force-molt (starve chickens to force them to lay more eggs)

• will develop auditing procedures for the handling of broiler chickens

• will institute humane-handling procedures for chickens at the slaughterhouse

• will begin purchasing pork from farms that do not confine sows to stalls

• has petitioned the U.S. Department of Agriculture to enforce the Humane Slaughter Act

Says PETA President Ingrid Newkirk, "The only way to avoid cruelty in meat production is to go vegetarian, but today Burger King has taken giant steps to improve the lives of millions of animals. We are ending our Burger King protest and examining other chains, such as Wendy's, as potential targets for improvements in animal welfare."



Please write to Burger King's CEO to thank him for the initial improvements and urge him to do more, then write to the other companies, such as Wendy's and Safeway, and urge them to meet or exceed Burger King's new standards. This is very important. Please get friends, family members, coworkers, neighbors, and others to write, too. Click here for information on who to write.
 
Days of the Tantric said:
I clean my ass slightly better than animals. I think that is what makes me superior.

Unless you lick your ass clean after every crap, DOT, I have to give the edge there to my cats.

What you meant to say is you clean your ass better than invertebrates which, your quite correct, is pretty cool. :p
 
Puc said:
animals don't get triple threat, except my cat, "John Cocktosen," who is cooler than all you fuckers combined.

Obviously. Any cat named after a Fletch persona has a natural head start over the rest of us. :fro:
 
The Dude said:


I hate to burst your bubble, but animals kill unnecessarily all the time. It is QUITE COMMON.


Are animal behaviourists aware of this? You might want to fill them in. :rolleyes:
 
I just saw this thread --- wish I could have got in on it sooner!!!!


Hunting serves as Wildlife Management.

without hunters funding programs for the preservation of wildlife, many more animals would die terrible deaths.

You ever heard of range management?????????

You ever heard of over grazing????????

You ever heard of over-population???????

You ever seen a community over-ridden with deer?????
there would be many more, if it were not for deer hunters.

which do you think is worse: A deer dying instantly from a bullet to the heart and then serving as food for a family. OR: A deer dying a slow, agonizing death from starvation and serving no purpose at all.

I encourage all here who are initially against huntning, to turn their focus away from org's such as PETA and the like and become educated from several sources when forming oppinions instead of listening to organizations with an alterior motive.

:)
 
huntmaster said:
I just saw this thread --- wish I could have got in on it sooner!!!!


Hunting serves as Wildlife Management.

without hunters funding programs for the preservation of wildlife, many more animals would die terrible deaths.

You ever heard of range management?????????

You ever heard of over grazing????????

You ever heard of over-population???????

You ever seen a community over-ridden with deer?????
there would be many more, if it were not for deer hunters.

which do you think is worse: A deer dying instantly from a bullet to the heart and then serving as food for a family. OR: A deer dying a slow, agonizing death from starvation and serving no purpose at all.

I encourage all here who are initially against huntning, to turn their focus away from org's such as PETA and the like and become educated from several sources when forming oppinions instead of listening to organizations with an alterior motive.

:)

It kinda makes you wonder how the critters got along before we came to this land, 200-400 years ago. They must all be thanking their lucky stars!

j/k sorta. But over-grazing, over-population and range management are all factors of developing land for our own purposes, are they not? Call me crazy, but I think eco-systems managed ok on their own for a few million years or, for you creationists out there, for 4100 years or so.
 
The Dude said:
I listed some examples in my first post.

Cats. They will toy with "lesser" creatures such as mice, baby rabbits, chicks, even insects. Just for fun. And they'll kill them. I've seen cats get into chicken houses when the chicks were less than a week old. They will leave a pile of dead birds in there. They're not eaten, just all decapitated.

Dogs. Know anyone with pet rabbits? A dog will go into someone's yard with pet rabbits and kill everyone of them. It may chew on some, but will usually leave mangled and dead. Toys. For fun. Snuff toys. I've had people tell me about them doing this to puppies as well. And cats. (kind of writing on the fly as my memory is serving me so forgive me if I am redundant or forget something)

Chimps. These animals are truly brutal (just like us). These examples aren't of violence for play, but violence for mating, food, obedience, and power. A new alpha male will often kill all of the infants in a group because they're not his. Alpha males use violence to maintain order and obedience out of those lower down the totem pole. Chimps of lower rank will do the same to those lower in rank to themselves...right on down the line. Chimps will gang up and pummel a member of the group if he steps out of line (mating, food, challenge of pecking order). To attain power a chimp must show force and use force as needed to beat back any other challengers.

Chickens. I work with them. If one is hurt or down, the others will pick on it incessantly. They're freakin' mean as hell to those at the very bottom of the pecking order.

And I'm just getting started with things that I have personal experience with or have studied to some degree. I love animals. I have an Animal Science degree. I also support hunting because it serves an important function in controlling wildlife populations (especially white-tailed deer and canadian geese). If you think we're bad though, the animals have us licked. We have a much greater sense of compassion and we have morals that guide us. The cutest, fuzziest little critter can sometimes do things that are so vile, you're just left speechless. People just need to stop anthropomorphizing these critters.

okay good points. but do animals kill for greed? lust? revenge? hatred? bigotry? do they kill over ideals? beliefs? religion? will they lay an area to waste to destroy their enemies?
 
The Nature Boy said:


okay good points.

I dunno, NB. Let's just look at what he wrote for cats.

"Cats. They will toy with "lesser" creatures such as mice, baby rabbits, chicks, even insects. Just for fun. And they'll kill them. I've seen cats get into chicken houses when the chicks were less than a week old. They will leave a pile of dead birds in there. They're not eaten, just all decapitated."

1. Newsflash! Wild cats love mice, baby rabbits and birds. You might say they live off them. And some cats eat insects such as katydids and praying mantis. The typical outdoor/indoor cat will kill those same animals but behavioralists have shown that knowing what to do with their prey is learned from the kittens' mother. Neither of my cats have the slightest idea what to do with a critter they've killed because they never learned it. So after its dead, they end up walking away at some point.

2. Animal behavioralists agree on the issue of predators 'playing' and 'toying' with prey. It's a vital trait that, for example, feral kittens must display if they're going to be successful hunters. How does a cat learn to pounce on a mouse? When is a better time to learn than when they catch a mouse? You see it all the time: a cat catches a mouse and lets it get just out of reach before pouncing on the poor creature again. Practice makes perfect. Technique is vital to survival.

3. No cat that knows how to eat live prey is going to walk into a hen house, tear the heads off the chicks and walk out. It'll never happen. A feral cat that manages to get into a chicken coop will leave a very full feral cat. There's no wasted energy among wild animals.

You would have to go a long way to make a persuasive argument, backed by more than personal observations, that predators exhibit behaviour that is in no way connected with their survival.
 
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a male koala will rape a female koala if she denies him sex, sometimes resulting in the females death.. those are some violent little bastards. ever seen footage of two male koalas fighting?

anyone see that "family guy" where "death" goes on a date with some girl that works in a pet shop? she wouldnt stop talking about how much better animals were than humans, so he killed her.

pet shop chick: animals dont have war, war was made by humans.
death: what the hell are you talking about, animals kill each other all the time?

funny shit
 
specter said:


I dunno, NB. Let's just look at what he wrote for cats.

"Cats. They will toy with "lesser" creatures such as mice, baby rabbits, chicks, even insects. Just for fun. And they'll kill them. I've seen cats get into chicken houses when the chicks were less than a week old. They will leave a pile of dead birds in there. They're not eaten, just all decapitated."

1. Newsflash! Wild cats love mice, baby rabbits and birds. You might say they live off them. And some cats eat insects such as katydids and praying mantis. The typical outdoor/indoor cat will kill those same animals but behavioralists have shown that knowing what to do with their prey is learned from the kittens' mother. Neither of my cats have the slightest idea what to do with a critter they've killed because they never learned it. So after its dead, they end up walking away at some point.

2. Animal behavioralists agree on the issue of predators 'playing' and 'toying' with prey. It's a vital trait that, for example, feral kittens must display if they're going to be successful hunters. How does a cat learn to pounce on a mouse? When is a better time to learn than when they catch a mouse? You see it all the time: a cat catches a mouse and lets it get just out of reach before pouncing on the poor creature again. Practice makes perfect. Technique is vital to survival.

3. No cat that knows how to eat live prey is going to walk into a hen house, tear the heads off the chicks and walk out. It'll never happen. A feral cat that manages to get into a chicken coop will leave a very full feral cat. There's no wasted energy among wild animals.

You would have to go a long way to make a persuasive argument, backed by more than personal observations, that predators exhibit behaviour that is in no way connected with their survival.

How wrong you are. Feral cats get into chicken houses (coops? Only if your chickens are pets) and DO play with them. They DO leave piles of dead, decapitated chicks. I've seen it many times. They're not house cats or tame barnyard cats. Bud, I'm talking from personal experience on these things. Except for the Chimips, that just comes from chimpanzee behavioralists in Africa (i.e. Goodall). I've the aftermath of a coyote attack that left more animals dead than it could consume.
 
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The Nature Boy said:


okay good points. but do animals kill for greed? lust? revenge? hatred? bigotry? do they kill over ideals? beliefs? religion? will they lay an area to waste to destroy their enemies?

Greed. Chimps will behave very violently over meat. If a lower ranked chimp tries to steal from one of the top tier chimps (who will take the kill [monkey] he will pay. I've seen video of it with the folks studying them describing how it plays out time and time again. Meat is very highly prized by chimps and when they make a kill (usually a very organized affair...kind of like looking back at our ancestors) they go nuts. Excited, energized, greedy.

Lust. Chimps again. Check the koala post. Alpha males in any number of populations (seals, apes, wolves, lions, etc.) OK, you can argue it's not all lust, but for dominance and procreation. Well, why do you think we're instilled with lust? It's another device that drives procreation.

Revenge. Chimps again. Their society is spooky in that it's very much like ours in many respects. They will enact revenge upon one another.

Bigotry. Well, in the basest sense, bigotry is acting out against something, someone different than yourself. It's a survival instinct. If it's different, it may be dangerous. They don't think it through like we do, but the natural, instictive reaction is there.

Ideas, beliefs, and religion. They don't sport the noggin to bring this into play. However, chimps may prove that wrong down the road. They are known to "dance" to try to make it stop raining.

Destruction. Competing groups of animals will attempt to drive off competition. This sometimes entails destroying things. Groups of chimps don't like each other. Packs of wolves don't either. They both have limited means to doing major environmental damage. But animals will try to cover and sometimes try to destroy scent markers left by others. Chimps will tear down nests made by other groups to bed down in at night. Given the ability, they would do what it takes to win competitively. When you come down to it, it's ALL about procreation. Passing on your DNA and if someone is competing with you to do it, well, you have to do something. Either you win or you lose.
 
specter said:



You would have to go a long way to make a persuasive argument, backed by more than personal observations, that predators exhibit behaviour that is in no way connected with their survival.

Just another quickie for you. When referring to the damage dogs will do to domestic rabbits and domestic and feral cats, I was referring to both wild and domestic dogs. They will tear 'em up and leave mangled, uneaten corpses all over the place. Compassionate aren't they.

Look, they're just like us. In times of need, they will only take what they need because that's all they can get. Why work so hard to just waste. But when there is a surplus or easy pickings, they will do what we did, what even the Indians did with the bison. They will slaughter things. At times it will just be for fun, for sport and others it may be because a certain part tastes better than the rest. What you see in us is basically what you get in animals. We're one in the same, no better, no worse. The only difference is where we fall in the food chain and that goes back to my original point. I'm better because I stand at the apex with the rest of you.

Love, peace, and llama grease.
 
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the dude.. i'm in awe.. literally... you've put up excellent arguments and i find your posts to be well-informed, intellectual, informative, and very persuasive.. thanks nugga..

one note.. there was some good argument against the humans.. particularly that of nature boy and the aspects of greed, lust, bigotry, etc displayed by humans.. and while you put up some good arguments.. you didn't take notice to one thing.. that being that your main argument was centered around the behavior of chimps... humans closest "ancestor"..

anyone care to expound upon how the correlation between chimps and humans both physically and behaviorally may offer us some clue as to the human race and their relationship to chimpanzees.. i.e. with chimps being our closest relative and displaying the same behaviors as humans.. the ones that set us aside from the rest of the animal kingdom.. only to a lesser degree.. does this offer us any more evidence towards the theory of evolution? will chimps begin displaying more and more of this "intollerable" behavior regularly displayed by humans? will they begin shedding hair and walking more upright? conversely.. will humans start displaying even more extremes to such "evil" behavior?



b true.. i never said all christians bro.. but you know there are some that think as i said.. and it was addressed to them specifically..


huntmaster.. you spew forth the same argument that every 8 y/o learns in his hunter's training course.. and i stand behing specter's argument.. in that these issues would never have been raised had humans not "fucked it up" for lack of better words.. in addition.. i would have to say that if left alone.. if left to fend for themselves and not have humans "look out for" their well being by going out and putting bullets through their head.. then nature would take its course.. more predators would come about.. taking out the weak of the herds.. which reminds me.. you only mention the good it's done.. but what about how such hunting has dessimated the predator species within nature.. by either hunting them as well.. or fucking them over by taking their prey.. it's no secret that the populations of bob cats, wolves, linx, mountain lions, coyotes are all at all time lows and as a direct result of human action..

specter and nature boy.. great arguments man...




some more to chew on.. i can't believe that noone came on here and said "because humans have the ability to reason".. so i'll bring it up.. do you people feel as though other animals do indeed have the ability to reason.?

i say they do.. in fact, i say they have more reason than humans.. for they are acting the same way that they did when they were put on this earth.. they are carrying out the instincts... and by doing so.. they would have.. without the existence of humans fucking it up that is.. kept the earth in such a state of harmony and accord that such threats of mass destruction, global warming, pollution, and other "man-made" disasters never would have come to be.. their populations would have been kept under control.. either through their own management or that of their predators.. over fishing would never have been defined.. anyway.. you see where i'm going with this..

many humans mistake their inability to understand other species as that species being stupid or less intelligent or having less ability to reason.. i disagree.. animals may know what we never will.. and may be more in touch with god and nature than humans ever could be..
 
huntmaster said:
I just saw this thread --- wish I could have got in on it sooner!!!!


Hunting serves as Wildlife Management.

without hunters funding programs for the preservation of wildlife, many more animals would die terrible deaths.

You ever heard of range management?????????

You ever heard of over grazing????????

You ever heard of over-population???????

You ever seen a community over-ridden with deer?????
there would be many more, if it were not for deer hunters.

which do you think is worse: A deer dying instantly from a bullet to the heart and then serving as food for a family. OR: A deer dying a slow, agonizing death from starvation and serving no purpose at all.

I encourage all here who are initially against huntning, to turn their focus away from org's such as PETA and the like and become educated from several sources when forming oppinions instead of listening to organizations with an alterior motive.

:)




I happen to agee with you..... What a freaking concept..





As for whoever made the comment about being owned on this thread.... What the f*ck ever... Don't you think I'm smart enough to spend my time doing things other that bickering on a chat board??? Kind of..

Believe me I could type up a storm but quite frankly why???

You people have all ready made up your minds about a lot of stuff you don't even know about.... And I stated earlier I was not going to get in a pissing contest..
 
Re: Starfish

fistfullofsteel said:
You are very sexy when you defend animals (not saying human aren't animals either, but you get the point). :D


LOL!!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

You should have seen me when I wrestled an alligator. I can stay on top of anything.. no lie;)
 
Re: Re: Starfish

starfish said:



LOL!!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

You should have seen me when I wrestled an alligator. I can stay on top of anything.. no lie;)




Great!!!


I got rid of the jello and I have lots of mud, since it has been raining all day.:)



So, you ready to wrestle?:p :p
 
Re: Re: Starfish

starfish said:



LOL!!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

You should have seen me when I wrestled an alligator. I can stay on top of anything.. no lie;)

My imagination is going crazy right now. **SYSTEM OVER LOAD, SYSTEM OVER LOAD, SYSTEM OVER LOAD***
 
Re: Re: Starfish

starfish said:



LOL!!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

You should have seen me when I wrestled an alligator. I can stay on top of anything.. no lie;)

Ahh, screw the argument, let's wrestle. If you can stay on top, you win a nice prize. :spin: Just bein' a pig for fun, no harm meant.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Starfish

big4life said:






I'll even put up a basket of peaches to the winner.;)




*Looks around*


I guess she doesn't want those peaches?:(


*Goes to look for someone else to wrestle*:bawling:
 
Re: Re: Re: Starfish

The Dude said:


Ahh, screw the argument, let's wrestle. If you can stay on top, you win a nice prize. :spin: Just bein' a pig for fun, no harm meant.



OK.... But when I move alligators I get to tape their mouths so they have to agree with everything I say ;) ;)
 
question- if animals are needed for medical research, would an organisation like PETA protest? and to what degree would they protest?

(im/my family is a memeber of some protection societies but PETA aint one of them so im quite curious)
 
danielson said:
question- if animals are needed for medical research, would an organisation like PETA protest? and to what degree would they protest?

(im/my family is a memeber of some protection societies but PETA aint one of them so im quite curious)



That is a really interesting debate.... I don't really know anything about that but this stuuf is interesting..

:)
Alternatives: Testing Without Torture

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the near future, laboratories might be hanging signs outside their doors saying, “No admittance to rats and rabbits.” Alternatives to animal tests are efficient and reliable, both for cosmetics and household product tests and for medical research. In most cases, non-animal methods take less time to complete, cost only a fraction of what the animal experiments they replace cost, and are not plagued with species differences that make extrapolation difficult or impossible.

Products Without Pain

Pharmagene Laboratories, based in Royston, England, is the first company to use only human tissues and sophisticated computer technologies in the process of drug development and testing. With tools from molecular biology, biochemistry, and analytical pharmacology, Pharmagene conducts extensive studies of human genes and how drugs affect these genes or the proteins they make. While some companies have used animal tissues for this purpose, Pharmagene scientists believe that the discovery process is much more efficient with human tissues. “If you have information on human genes, what's the point of going back to animals?” says Pharmagene cofounder Gordon Baxter.(1)

Instead of dripping chemicals into animals’ eyes to test toxicity, researchers can now grow a thin layer of cells on a membrane and monitor changes in electrical resistance in the cells as they are exposed to test chemicals.(2)

Avon Products, Inc., which until June of 1989 killed about 24,000 animals a year to test its products, now uses many non-animal tests, including the Irritation Assay System (formerly known as Eytex and Skintex) and an in vitro test used to assess irritancy levels of substances. It mimics the reaction of the cornea and human skin when exposed to foreign substances and can be used to determine the toxicity of more than 5,000 different materials.

Corrositex is an in vitro test approved by the Department of Transportation as a substitute for the traditional rabbit skin test. The test assesses corrosivity using a protein membrane designed to function like skin. The method gives results in just a few hours for as little as $100 per test.(3)

Three companies have developed artificial “human skin” which can be used in skin grafts for burn victims and other patients and can replace animals in product tests.(4)

Scientists can also use mathematical and computer models, based on physical and chemical structures and properties of a substance, to make predictions about the toxicity of a substance. One such software package, TOPKAT, which predicts oral toxicity and skin and eye irritation, is used by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and the U.S. Army.

Using computers, scientists have built an accurate working model of a human heart that will allow researchers to test new treatments electronically before they are attempted on humans. Computerized “virtual organs” predict how drugs will be absorbed and metabolized, so drug companies can now test the effects of substances electronically before ever trying them on a person.

Other toxicological test kits allow drugmakers and cosmetics manufacturers to run tests that indicate whether the compounds used in products will cause cancer or other medical problems. Using integrated molecular assay systems that show how human and animal bacterial cells react when exposed to various compounds, the kits allow manufacturers to test thousands of potentially toxic compounds a year more quickly and cheaply than the compounds could be tested through the use of animals.(5)

Medical Applications

In medicine, perhaps the most informative research takes place not in test tubes, but in hospitals and clinics and the offices of statisticians and epidemiologists. Clinical surveys, human volunteers, case studies, autopsy reports, and statistical analyses permit far more accurate observation and use of actual environmental factors related to human disease than is possible with animals confined in laboratories, who contract diseases in conditions vastly different from the situations that confront humans. Long before the famous “smoking beagle” experiments began, statisticians and epidemiologists knew that cigarette smoking caused cancer in humans, yet programs to warn people about the hazards of smoking were delayed while more animal tests were carried out (to the satisfaction of the tobacco industry) and proved “inconclusive.”

Time and Money

Non-animal tests are generally faster and less expensive than the animal tests they replace and improve upon.(6)

In cancer studies, animal tests of a single substance may take four to eight years and cost $400,000 or more, whereas short-term non-animal studies cost as little as $200-$4,000 and can be completed in just days. The dangers of waiting years for results of animal tests are apparent: In 1985, the EPA determined that three animal tests had not shown a sufficient degree of danger in the pesticide Alar, and it called on the manufacturer to conduct still more cancer studies on animals. Now, years later, these studies are still incomplete. Although the EPA has pulled Alar from the market, non-animal tests would have taken a matter of days or months, not years, and could have meant that fewer consumers would have come into contact with Alar-treated products.

Learning to Help Without Harming

More and more medical students are becoming conscientious objectors, and many students now graduate without having used animals; instead, they learn by assisting experienced surgeons. In Great Britain, it is against the law for medical students to practice surgery on animals, and many of the leading U.S. medical schools, including Harvard, Yale, and Stanford, now use innovative, clinical teaching methods instead of old-fashioned animal laboratories. Harvard, for instance, offers a Cardiac Anesthesia Practicum, where students observe human heart bypass operations instead of dog labs.

Moving Forward

Professor Michael Balls, head of the European Centre for the Validation of Alternative Methods (ECVAM), says, “Many regulators feel more comfortable with animal tests, even with tests that are known to be unreliable and of questionable relevance.”(7)

For scientific, health, ethical, and economic reasons, researchers and regulators must switch their focus to non-animal tests, and the large number of animal experiments that are conducted more out of “curiosity” or habit, rather than out of a real need for information, should be eliminated at once.

What You Can Do

• If you own stock in a company that conducts animal tests, introduce a shareholder resolution opposing the use of animals.
• Ask the FDA to stop requiring cruel and obsolete animal tests for pharmaceuticals and allow companies to substitute in vitro tests.

References

Reuters, “British Company Pioneers Non-Animal Tests,” 29 Aug. 1996.

“New Toxicity Test Designed to Spare Laboratory Animals,” Orlando Sentinel, 23 Aug. 1996.

Wade Roush, “Hunting for Animal Alternatives,” Science, 11 Oct. 1996, p. 168.

Lawrence M. Fisher, “3 Companies Speed Artificial Skin,” The New York Times, 12 Sep. 1990.
David Algeo, “Big Plans on Tap for Xenometrix,” Denver Post, 18 Oct. 1996.

Barnaby J. Feder, “Beyond White Rats and Rabbits,” The New York Times, 28 Feb. 1988, Sec. 3, p. 1.

Shelley M. Colwell, “Alternative Action,” Soap/Cosmetics/Chemical Specialties, 19 Oct. 1996, p. 56.
 
it would be nice if companies would allow themselves to face outside regulation over their treatment of animals
 
danielson said:
it would be nice if companies would allow themselves to face outside regulation over their treatment of animals


I completely agree.. With medical science today, there are plenty of alternatives.
 
starfish said:

Using computers, scientists have built an accurate working model of a human heart that will allow researchers to test new treatments electronically before they are attempted on humans. Computerized “virtual organs” predict how drugs will be absorbed and metabolized, so drug companies can now test the effects of substances electronically before ever trying them on a person.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

There is something wrong with their intellect.
 
Jack The Ripper said:


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

There is something wrong with their intellect.



Maybe..... I don't really know.. Just posted it so you guys could rip it up..
 
Some animal experimants can be replaced by computer models or by just using isolated tissue, but would you use a new medicament which hasn´t been tested on animals`?
 
I think all those are great advancements, starfish, thanks for posting them.:)

It is good to see that there might be some alternatives to animal testing that will not hinder scientific advancement.:angel:
 
Norman Bates said:
Some animal experimants can be replaced by computer models or by just using isolated tissue, but would you use a new medicament which hasn´t been tested on animals`?


That is a good point.... but in the LITTLE reading I have done about it... TONS of money $$$$$$$ is wasted on animal experiments over years...

Wouldn't you want to spend that money elsewhere for medical causes??



I was reading somewhere about the March of Dimes... They waste a ton of $$$$$ on animal research... YOUR $$$ that people raise... So much so that the biggest contributors like K-MArt ( or something) has specified to where thier money goes or they will not give.
 
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starfish said:
I don't really know

That is exactly what is wrong with todays world. Humans do not know anything and trying to relate a computer program to the real biological physiology of true tissues is just.....

Pathetic.

Darling, I would love to continue and chitchat about this topic but I have to tear my subscapularis away from my lesser tubercle. Have a pleasant evening.
 
Jack The Ripper said:


That is exactly what is wrong with todays world. Humans do not know anything and trying to relate a computer program to the real biological physiology of true tissues is just.....

Pathetic.

Darling, I would love to continue and chitchat about this topic but I have to tear my subscapularis away from my lesser tubercle. Have a pleasant evening.



Were you dropped on your head???

Just because I don't know something doesn't mean there are not valid points for someone to pick up on either way.

Anyway, I doubt you contribute much to anything so BYE!
 
I once had the oppurtunity to talk with a dr. rer. nat. at BASF, the department for manufactoring pesticides,
She said that they wanted to use other procedures but it was to heavely regulated by the government.
So i guess some testing on animals could be avoided.
But before a new medicament is used used on humans or a new pesticide is used in the environment it has to be tested on animals first before it can be applied , or come into contact, with humans.
And i´m not asshamed of being pro animal testing in that case.
 
Norman Bates will always be cooler than Jack the Ripper :p
Jack the RIpper is just some snob who killed prostitutes and read a surgery book.
:D

(jk)
 
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Norman Bates said:
Norman Bates will always be cooler as Jack the Ripper :p
Jack the RIpper is just some snob who killed prostitutes and read a surgery book.
:D

(jk)


Actually, having Norman Bates and Jack the Ripper responding to my posts is a little freaky..

I am scared...

Somebody hold me:worried: :worried: :worried:
 
If you are ever over here, visit me, i have a nice hotels with great showers ;) and my mom isn´t as jealous as she used to be ...
 
norman bates was kinda normal. i mean he kept himself to himself. just dont go near his motel and your alright.
 
:D

he burnt down the motel in the last one didnt he? so i wouldnt worry too much :)
 
Norman Bates said:
Don´t tell me i missed a PSYCHO movie?!?!
Which one was the last you saw?

it was the newest one. maybe it was a tv movie. i dunno.....i only saw the last few minutes of it. he's in the basement or somthing, he burns down the motel and his mom evil spirit somehow gets out during the burning

im probably wrong :)
 
ahhhh.....may explan it
 
I saw one made for television recently, it was meant to be like the first psycho. It was simply boring. The actor didn´t get that Norman bates nice guy/ psycho impression.

Another one i saw was when the older NB telephones with some1 on the radio and how he is going to murder his new wife.
I didn´t like that one ,too. It just isn´t as new as PSycho was in it´s days.

"and his mom evil spirit somehow gets out during the burning "

Maybe i haven´t missed much, it sounds like Psycho goes Omen.
Omen was good though, but Psycho was never meant to have a mythological compound, it doesn´t fit.
 
Norman Bates said:
I saw one made for television recently, it was meant to be like the first psycho. It was simply boring. The actor didn´t get that Norman bates nice guy/ psycho impression.

Another one i saw was when the older NB telephones with some1 on the radio and how he is going to murder his new wife.
I didn´t like that one ,too. It just isn´t as new as PSycho was in it´s days.

"and his mom evil spirit somehow gets out during the burning "

Maybe i haven´t missed much, it sounds like Psycho goes Omen.
Omen was good though, but Psycho was never meant to have a mythological compound, it doesn´t fit.

damn...i havent even seen the first one through. always used to come too late on TV, and now one hasnt been on for ages
 
Psycho is just great. Nowaday every psycho is so supersmart and sooooo cool :cold: , i bet if someone was living next to one of those guys he wouldn´t have to worry about air conditioning.

Psycho was just the origin of the whole genre.But i guess most people wouldn´t like it so much, since the ending is known to everyone, including those who haven´t seen the movie.
 
decem said:
huntmaster.. you spew forth the same argument that every 8 y/o learns in his hunter's training course.. and i stand behing specter's argument.. in that these issues would never have been raised had humans not "fucked it up" for lack of better words.. in addition.. i would have to say that if left alone.. if left to fend for themselves and not have humans "look out for" their well being by going out and putting bullets through their head.. then nature would take its course.. more predators would come about.. taking out the weak of the herds.. which reminds me.. you only mention the good it's done.. but what about how such hunting has dessimated the predator species within nature.. by either hunting them as well.. or fucking them over by taking their prey.. it's no secret that the populations of bob cats, wolves, linx, mountain lions, coyotes are all at all time lows and as a direct result of human action..

First of all---I dont know about the lynx, but I do know that coyotes, and mountain lions are not anywhere close to being at all-time lows.

Coyotes are out of control in Texas.

NEXT---Do you suggest that there was not such a thing as starvation before hunting? C'mon, dont just assume something that is so proposterous.

If the truth is uttered, it does not matter to me if it comes from the mouth of an eight year old just out of hunter training or an adult that has hunted all of their life to provide for his family.

The facts are here and have been presented to you. You can turn from the truth if you like, but that does not effect its validity.
 
decem said:
or any other living creature on this earth?

this post is directed mostly toward hunters and those holy rollers that think their god only recognizes human..

so..


where does the fact that chimpanzees dna is almost identical to humans? (that question goes towards the anti-evolution posse)..


A chimp's genetic makeup is 98.4% identical to a human's. A banana's is something like 95% identical to our's. I guess I should probably stop putting them in my protein shakes.

I'd say that most hunters harvest the meat in a more humane way than a slaughter house does.

Does a coyote feel remorse after dining on Muffy the poodle out in Cali?

Should a farmer feel remorse after picking off the 4 coyotes that have been feasting on his cattle?

When you sink your teeth into a juicy steak, do you feel remorse for the cow's life that was taken because of your demand?

Does Rosie O'Donell feel remorse for the 3 cattle that gave their lives (and their hides) so she can wear a leather thong?


decem said:
it's no secret that the populations of bob cats, wolves, linx, mountain lions, coyotes are all at all time lows and as a direct result of human action..


This is indeed a secret to me. Funny that my state doesn't have a bag limit on coyotes during the season and private landowners can take them year round. I'm sure the wolves wouldn't appreciate it either. They are no longer an endangered species in the UP. Couldn't have been because us hunters chipped away at an overabundance of coyotes, freeing up the much needed food sources for the wolves, could it? Their feline counterparts can't be hurting too bad, considering we have a bag limit of 3 bobcats during the season.


Here's a quote to ponder:

"Has not Nature proved, in giving us the strength necessary to submit them to our desires, that we have the right to do so?"

- Donatien Alphonse Francois, Comte de Sade
 
Re: Re: why do you think you are better than animals?

huntmaster said:


First of all---I dont know about the lynx, but I do know that coyotes, and mountain lions are not anywhere close to being at all-time lows.

Coyotes are out of control in Texas.

oh.. ok then.. i was just kinda pulling animals at random and hoping they'd be endangered.. but now that i think about it.. the coyote is doing fine.. in fact.. they're present in all 88 counties in ohio now...



Latimer said:


A chimp's genetic makeup is 98.4% identical to a human's. A banana's is something like 95% identical to our's. I guess I should probably stop putting them in my protein shakes.

I'd say that most hunters harvest the meat in a more humane way than a slaughter house does.

Does a coyote feel remorse after dining on Muffy the poodle out in Cali?

Should a farmer feel remorse after picking off the 4 coyotes that have been feasting on his cattle?

When you sink your teeth into a juicy steak, do you feel remorse for the cow's life that was taken because of your demand?

Does Rosie O'Donell feel remorse for the 3 cattle that gave their lives (and their hides) so she can wear a leather thong?

This is indeed a secret to me. Funny that my state doesn't have a bag limit on coyotes during the season and private landowners can take them year round. I'm sure the wolves wouldn't appreciate it either. They are no longer an endangered species in the UP. Couldn't have been because us hunters chipped away at an overabundance of coyotes, freeing up the much needed food sources for the wolves, could it? Their feline counterparts can't be hurting too bad, considering we have a bag limit of 3 bobcats during the season.


damn it janet.. again.. i was just pullin shit out my butt and hoping people either wouldn't know any better or that i'd be right... guess i was wrong on both counts...




anywho.. the dude actually put up such a strong argument in this thread that i may keep eating meat.. (i was gonna turn completely vegan over the course of this year..)...




some more points to ponder.. i mentioned earlier.. or so i think i did.. how animals are just carrying out their natural instincts.. and behaving in a way in which they were "intended" behave.. and in doing so.. would be closer to any "god" or "creator" than humans would be.. and i'm again surprised to not have seen this argument raised.. so i'll raise it myself.... (actually.. i've said it before in a religious thread)..

could it not be true that in displaying anger, lust, greed, lack of remorse, and all other "evil" behaviors that most associate with being "human" as being a "wrong" human behavior.. and by killing other animals for fun or research or food.. and in collecting property and in advancing our civilization past that of other animals.. that we are simply carrying out our own instincts.. acting in accord to how nature intended us to act?
 
A chimp's genetic makeup is 98.4% identical to a human's. A banana's is something like 95% identical to our's.


The average Brazilian male has a genetic makeup of 94% to a chimpanzee. And I'm not being racist. I've just been living in this backward country for too long. This 23 year old monkey from across the road where I live, called my wife the other day, threatening to kill our dogs if we don't keep them quiet. But he and his fellow tribe members park their cars in front of his house with music blaring. I went over there to bash his fangs down his throat....unfortunately he saw me and legged it back into his house. Now, I can't go into his house, can I?

So, the primate called the cops and told'em about my intentions.
Cops arrived..I explained...cops said not to worry. He hasn't actually done anything. (YET!) So, I guess you can threaten anyone anytime....cool country, hey?

Haven't seen the monkey since then...

BTW..what is the law in the States on this issue(threatening someone) ?

bodmin

P.S. Why don't you Americans buy the Amazon rainforest? At least it will be looked after properly.
 
I'm not sure that "better" is the word, superior is more like it. I'm superior because I can kill any animal I want at any time. The black widow's venom is deadly, but I can introduce him to the bottom of my shoe at any point in time. Sure, bears are scary, but it's nothing that a high-powered rifle can't handle. Great whites are bad news, but a speargun loaded with a .44 powerhead will literally blow him out of the water.

It's just that I'm at the very top of the food chain. If you pit me against a bear in the woods and I'm unarmed, then the bear would be "better" and a shark in the water would kill me in three seconds if I weren't holding that speargun. But the difference between me and them is INVENTION. Humans are smart enough to have invented objects which can render them nearly invincible. No other creature in the animal kingdom has done that, and until they do, I will always be superior.
 
bigguns7 said:
But the difference between me and them is INVENTION. Humans are smart enough to have invented objects which can render them nearly invincible. No other creature in the animal kingdom has done that, and until they do, I will always be superior.

ok.. but what's to say that the animals haven't thought of that..

what's to say that they don't know something about invention and technology that we don't?

perhaps they prefer their lives as is... perhaps they simply prefer to live as mother nature intended..

does that mean that we really are "superior" to them.. in all aspects.. to include ethics and morality?
 
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