Why do steroids lose their effectiveness over time?

[madmitch]

Ok so why do steroids loose their effectiveness after each cycle and why do some people just keep getting good results cycle after cycle?

Well I think I might have an answer, I believe it is down to the receptor affinity for each steroid, and the amount of Aromatase and 5-alpha reductase enzyme in your body.

All steroids have different Affinities for the Androgen receptor e.g. Anavar binds strongly and that is why it is made in 2.5 mg tablets. Whereas Anadrol 50 does not bind very well and thus it has 50 mg per tablet.

One very important point is that once an Androgen receptor is occupied by a strongly binding Androgen like DHT, weaker binding Androgens like Anadrol can not displace the DHT molecule.

This is where genetics comes in.

Example:

You have 2 bodybuilders who decide to start taking Testosterone in equal amounts. Bodybuilder (A) has little or no 5 alpha reductase enzyme in his body, while Bodybuilder (B) has a high amounts of the enzyme.

In the beginning both bodybuilders should respond equally well to the Testosterone as their Receptors are fresh. However as time goes by and more and more of the Testosterone in Bodybuilder (B) is converted to DHT his muscle receptors which have a testosterone molecule bound to them are displaced by the stronger binding DHT.

Once a DHT or even an Estrogen molecule binds to a receptor, Testosterone is blocked and cannot trigger a response.

Essentially this would mean that any further Testosterone you inject will have little or no effect, as your receptors are blocked by DHT or Estrogen.

This would mean that the effects of steroids on Bodybuilder (B) would diminish more rapidly than for Bodybuilder (A).

So this would also mean that Genetics or the amount of 5-alpha reductase and aromatase enzyme you were born with will determine how well and how long steroids will work for you.

Still not convinced?

Well research has shown that obese men given Testosterone decreased body fat by 9.1%, while a second group who where given DHT INCREASED their body fat by 7.1% and the third group who where given a placebo experienced no change.

This would mean that bodybuilder (B) will eventually start to get fatter and fatter as more and more of the Testosterone he injects is converted to DHT.

And there is more

 

[Twitched]

It has more to do with the fact that as a bodybuilder does more and more cycles he brings himself further past his genetic potential, thus making the body very unwilling to add mass.

Those that continue to make gains have a high genetic potential, or keep backtracking while off cycle.

 

[Hulk101]

This is gonna be a good one. I would like to hear some responses because its an interesting subject.

 

[robby]

good points bro, i'm no chemist but your points make sense to
me. maybe thats why some bro's make good gains with 250-500mg test/week, while others have to take at least 750-1000mg. is it possible that a body will increase his receptors or
is the a genetically limit?

robby

 

[PARABOLAN]

i have one word for u : receptor downgrade.....

 

[Diesel3d]

a lot of people stay on all year round and make great steady gains. how can you explain this?

 

[madmitch]

Ok the effect of steroids will decrease in everyone over time, but what I am trying to point out is the difference from one person to another.

Yes the bigger a bodybuilder gets the less noticable his gains become cycle after cycle. But what I am talking about is the fact that some people gain better on steroids than others.

And yes again this would explain why some guy's can get away with using less.

It would also explain why everyone experiences different results from different steroids.

e.g.

Deca or any Nandrolone based steroid is converted to a much weaker anabolic "dihydronandrolone" by the 5-alpha reductase enzyme.

Therefore in the example, someone with a lot of the 5-alpha enzyme will not experience as good gains when using Nandrolone as someone who has not very much reductase enzyme.

The main steroids that are not effected, or are only slightly effected by the 5-alpha reductase enzyme are?

Dianabol and Equipose

Could this explain why Dianabol is so universally popular?

I think so.

Dianabol does not convert to DHT therefore it has no by product to compete against, except Estrogen.

Diesel3d - some people can stay on year round and make steady gains, but they may have a low levels of 5-alpha reductase enzyme in their bodies or are probably also taking Proscar and Armidex to block the conversion to DHT or Estrogen.

 

[macho21]

It has more to do with the fact that as a bodybuilder does more and more cycles he brings himself further past his genetic potential, thus making the body very unwilling to add mass.

Those that continue to make gains have a high genetic potential, or keep backtracking while off cycle.

I agree 100%. I also don't believe in receptor downgrade.

 

[Diesel3d]

Ok the effect of steroids will decrease in everyone over time, but what I am trying to point out is the difference from one person to another.

Yes the bigger a bodybuilder gets the less noticable his gains become cycle after cycle. But what I am talking about is the fact that some people gain better on steroids than others.

And yes again this would explain why some guy's can get away with using less.

It would also explain why everyone experiences different results from different steroids.

e.g.

Deca or any Nandrolone based steroid is converted to a much weaker anabolic "dihydronandrolone" by the 5-alpha reductase enzyme.

Therefore in the example, someone with a lot of the 5-alpha enzyme will not experience as good gains when using Nandrolone as someone who has not very much reductase enzyme.

The main steroids that are not effected, or are only slightly effected by the 5-alpha reductase enzyme are?

Dianabol and Equipose

Could this explain why Dianabol is so universally popular?

I think so.

Dianabol does not convert to DHT therefore it has no by product to compete against, except Estrogen.

Diesel3d - some people can stay on year round and make steady gains, but they may have a low levels of 5-alpha reductase enzyme in their bodies or are probably also taking Proscar and Armidex to block the conversion to DHT or Estrogen.

so the the answer would be to take proscar and armidex with cycles? I dont know about the proscar with deca though. i hear thats not a good idea. have not tried it...

I just started a cycle today with deca and test. Will take 1mg of liquidex ed

 

[Trueman]

I think the qustion has been answered quite well, so allow me to summarise with the info already posted plus the little i have. The reason is three fold

1) You are carrying your body past its genetic limit. NB. everyone has a different genetic limit.

2) Receptor down regulation, we all know what that means i assume, but for those that dont, the effect is that there are fewer receptors per cell, therefore less binding.

3) Physiological tolerance. The more steroids you take, the more enzymes you produce to break them down.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ulter]

There is no evidence anywhere of AR downregulation. You are simply asking your body to carry more and more LBM beyond what it would be able to do without AS. The more such mass you add the more AS you need to hold or add to it. If the receptor downregulated then men on HRT would need to up their dosages over time and they don't. Only those who use AS to add mass have to increase their doses.

 

[Twitched]

I agree 100%. I also don't believe in receptor downgrade.

neither do i

 

[LONE_AZ]

You only have down regulation of the receptor during a cycle in which you flood your body with too much androgen. It is the same principle as reduce sensitivity to insulin in type two diabetes.

 

[Zyglamail]

When you are packing on as much muslce in 8-10 weeks that would normally take a year or more, you are consuming natural resouces at an alarming rate. In other words you packing on 10x as much weight as normal yet are you consuming and is your body able to use 10x more of the crucial macronutrients if you are?

I for one think most people often overlook the simple things and always blame receptor downregulation and such. But there is a lot more to bulding a body, you need the essential building blocks and plenty of them to keep growing at that exceptional rate.

 

[plug1]

Great posts boyz. I feel educated... and its a friday.

cheers

 

[Dr.X]

1. Receptor downregulation DOES occur.

2. A loss in effectiveness cannot be attributed to T conversion to DHT. Otherwise 5a reductase inhibitors would increase your gains. They don't.

In fact, the most anabolic steroids often are the ones that also demonstrate high DHT conversion rates.


3. Genetic limits (as stated above)
- different AR sensitivity
- different # of ARs
- different levels of converting enzymes (5a and p450 aromatase)
- etc

 

[Themachine01]

I totally agree with all the answers that have been posted. Now let me ask you guys this, Twitched stated that "it has more to do with the fact that as a bodybuilder does more and more cycles he brings himself further past his genetic potential, thus making the body very unwilling to add mass", if i decided tomorrow to never use AS again, with 5 cycles under my belt, would i be able to ever put mass on naturally again. When I first decided to use AS I had hit, or believed that I had hit, my natural potential. Im in my 20s still so Im wondering what would happen.

 

[madmitch]

Dr. X

5a reductase inhibitors increase free Testosterone levels by 15% now that may not seem like a lot but it's better than having a lot of DHT.

Also DHT is NOT anabolic in any way shape or form, yet it binds to the Androgen receptor 5 times stronger than Testosterone.

Therefore once DHT has attached it's self to the AR it's too late to start taking a 5a reductase inhibitor.

I would also have to disagree with what you said "most anabolic steroids often are the ones that also demonstrate high DHT conversion rates"

Testosterone is the only one that demonstrates high DHT conversion. Primo, Winstrol and Anadrol 50 are DHT based, but as far as I know they do not convert back to DHT. However if someone can show proof that they do convert to DHT, i will accept it.

Dianabol the most popular anabolic steroid does not convert to DHT, nor does Equipose, Parabolan, Anavar or Deca.

 

[Beezers]

This is a good one fellas. I'm in the camp of thought that that thinks gains come harder and harder becasue 1) you are many, many pounds over what your body would otherwise be able to carry so you need more and more substrate(AAS) to elicit and anaboilc response 2)lack of sufficient nutrients to keep growing.

The realm of genetic factors (the DHT/5-alpha reductase/aromitase/receptor expression/population/growth factors/inhibitors) all that good stuff is a whole different ball game. They certainly have the biggest impact on ones body, but I don't think they are the shackles holding most people back from further gains.

 

[Golfer18--old]

I dont believe in Receptor downregulation either, its all about your potential.