Who promotes a heavy first cycle?

[reaper99]

I hear people talk about first cycle is the best cycle so crank up the numbers on test and whatever your using. I wanted to hear some thoughts on why and if you should hit your first cycle hard. And a few examples of a good first cycle if you believe you should? Any Anthony roberts ideas?

 

[Big O]

I doubt very seriously if anyone who knows anything at all about gear will back you on this..No matter what your age,stats or conditioning are.....

The old tried and true cycle of test,d-bol and deca are about as heavy a cycle you should consider....

 

[acneman]

I doubt very seriously if anyone who knows anything at all about gear will back you on this..No matter what your age,stats or conditioning are.....

The old tried and true cycle of test,d-bol and deca are about as heavy a cycle you should consider....

i dont think you understand the question
hes talkin volume not variety of substance

reaper99
my first cycle was 200mg/week tes enathate
and i reget it

second cycle 500mg/week tes enathate
300mg/week deca
insulin week 4 through 7
worked great
at one point gained 43 pounds and kept 28 after pct and diet
195 > 238 = 223 6 months later
screw dbol

although not your question i agree you should keep it simple

too many folks usin hgh and igf and a plethora of drugs whose long term effects are in serious question
and i am against orals i think they are not needed
if you go tes/deca with ancillary protection drugs and pct
you will grow
period
dont get fancy
500/300 8 to 10 weeks
hell skip the insulin
i bet you will be happy

edit
this advice assumes you are a healthy, weight training, adult(at least mid to late 20's) if this is not true you have many other issues to work out before you engage in this activity

 

[lawnsaver]

Taking high doses in your first cycle is poor thinking for a few reasons.

1: You are going to gain 20-30lbs taking just about anything.

I took 200mg of primo a week with 50mg of winny EOD for 7 weeks and I gained 26lbs. My second cycle was 500mg of test for 10 weeks and I gain 25lbs.

2: You also have no idea how the gear is going to effect you. Take it in moderation to see how you will react. You have no idea how the estrogen is going to effect you, even with a AI or anti-e.

3: Heavy first cycles will frequently result in injurry. You are going to be lifting weights that you have never lifted, whioh can play havock on your tendons, ligaments, and muscle fibers.

I can go on, but you get my point. Save the bigger cycle for the your 5th or 6th cycle and let your body grow.

Remember the more weight you put on, the harder it will be for your body to want to keep it. Slower steady gains will allow your body to get used to the new weight. It will also allow you to get used to the new calorie your body will need to keep it. You will only keep the new muscle that you are able to feed to it

 

[Big O]

edit- im jumpin on big o cause of another post so let me say this
although not your question i agree you should keep it simple


Not another immature decadent individual....

 

[acneman]

edit- im jumpin on big o cause of another post so let me say this
although not your question i agree you should keep it simple


Not another immature decadent individual....

hey mabey i am but i did agree with you
i thought the edit would avoid this
how bout i edit the post some more
better?

 

[acneman]

Taking high doses in your first cycle is poor thinking for a few reasons.

1: You are going to gain 20-30lbs taking just about anything.

I took 200mg of primo a week with 50mg of winny EOD for 7 weeks and I gained 26lbs. My second cycle was 500mg of test for 10 weeks and I gain 25lbs.

2: You also have no idea how the gear is going to effect you. Take it in moderation to see how you will react. You have no idea how the estrogen is going to effect you, even with a AI or anti-e.

3: Heavy first cycles will frequently result in injurry. You are going to be lifting weights that you have never lifted, whioh can play havock on your tendons, ligaments, and muscle fibers.

I can go on, but you get my point. Save the bigger cycle for the your 5th or 6th cycle and let your body grow.

Remember the more weight you put on, the harder it will be for your body to want to keep it. Slower steady gains will allow your body to get used to the new weight. It will also allow you to get used to the new calorie your body will need to keep it. You will only keep the new muscle that you are able to feed to it

i agree with most of what you said
do you think my cycle was too much?

also i read some research about 4 years ago that exogenos tes caused irreguar tendon/ligament growth resultin in injuries
now i cant find it do you remeber it?

 

[SwolK]

no heavy doses or variety of compounds for first cycle.

i say test

250-500mg for 8 or 10 weeks.

AI

proper PCT

 

[Ulter]

Since I started cycling 20 years ago I can't think of anyone who has said they injured themselves because they did a hefty first cycle and wouldn't have been injured if they went lighter. I don't know how you would determine that.

You have one shot at a first cycle. You will grow the most during this cycle. If you go light you're wasting that cycle. Dan Duchaine wrote extensively on this and he was right. 750mg/wk of test is the minimum one should consider for their first cycle.
I AM TALKING ABOUT BODY BUILDERS!! Not guys who say, "how do I get that Brad Pitt look" or "I just want to cut up and put on some lean mass" or "what's a good lean mass cycle".

Minimum:
750mg/wk of test
300mg/wk of deca
dbol to start
AIFM

 

[newbie210]

Bro I just started week 7 of my first cycle (12 weeks total) and decided to hit it hard and kind of regret it. I've been an emotional wreck the entire time, I'm not sure how the other guys handle their stuff what all my emotions are amped up 10 fold.

Test E 500mg/wk 1-12
Eq 600mg/wk 1-12
Winny 50mg/ED 1-4
100mg/ED 8-12

T3 25mcg/ED 7-8
50mcg/ED 9-10
Clen 100mcg/ED 7-10
(probably going to drop this though)

Great gains, vascularity is good, strength is amazing, but my heart hurts and emotions are unstable. About ripped my steering wheel off my Jeep then almost cried. Calf pumps during cardio are painful too.

Your call though bro.

 

[njmuscleguy]

A few years ago, my first cycle was 600mg Test enth and 400mg Deca per week... my gains were piss poor and I lost alot of it... admittedly, I did practically everything wrong during that cycle. As I progressed with future cycles, I slowly increased dosages of test...then, after a handful of cycles, I tried going back down in dosage of test... my body wasn't having any of it... it NEEDED at least as much test as I had done the last few cycles... so my only concern with starting off with very high dosages of AAS for a first cycle is that, if you're anything like me, you'll have to constantly up the dosages somewhat to continue making significant gains. Just something to thinik about.

 

[acneman]

A few years ago, my first cycle was 600mg Test enth and 400mg Deca per week... my gains were piss poor and I lost alot of it... admittedly, I did practically everything wrong during that cycle. As I progressed with future cycles, I slowly increased dosages of test...then, after a handful of cycles, I tried going back down in dosage of test... my body wasn't having any of it... it NEEDED at least as much test as I had done the last few cycles... so my only concern with starting off with very high dosages of AAS for a first cycle is that, if you're anything like me, you'll have to constantly up the dosages somewhat to continue making significant gains. Just something to thinik about.

let me be clear that im not sayin you are wrong
but i have some doubts about the "must increase dosage every cycle or no gains" theory
quad said he did 3 grams of tes a week once
i doubt that is his standard cycle and i doubt he will have to go to 4g to grow
what ya say quad?

any way if the average free tes floating around in guys is like 6/9mg(i read that here somewhere)
and if you are ever "off" i mean really off and keep some muscle
how could you not grow on 500/750mg per week tes (thats 100x your normal guys level)

thats my thoughts

 

[acneman]

Bro I just started week 7 of my first cycle (12 weeks total) and decided to hit it hard and kind of regret it. I've been an emotional wreck the entire time, I'm not sure how the other guys handle their stuff what all my emotions are amped up 10 fold.

Test E 500mg/wk 1-12
Eq 600mg/wk 1-12
Winny 50mg/ED 1-4
100mg/ED 8-12

T3 25mcg/ED 7-8
50mcg/ED 9-10
Clen 100mcg/ED 7-10
(probably going to drop this though)

Great gains, vascularity is good, strength is amazing, but my heart hurts and emotions are unstable. About ripped my steering wheel off my Jeep then almost cried. Calf pumps during cardio are painful too.

Your call though bro.

brotha i feel your pain
be careful when you cycle off
for me cycle off combined with bad things in life had me cleaning my pistol a lot
i got on st.johns wort quick and was ok in a couple of days
warning st. johns wort might keep you from cleaning your ears with a 357 but it migt also keep you from completeing the sex act

im dead serious about that cycle off depression brotha be careful

 

[ryan04]

I hear people talk about first cycle is the best cycle so crank up the numbers on test and whatever your using. I wanted to hear some thoughts on why and if you should hit your first cycle hard. And a few examples of a good first cycle if you believe you should? Any Anthony roberts ideas?

Did somebody actually tell you that or are you just trying to rationalize taking large quanities your 1st cycle? If anyone actually told you that I would completely disregard anything they have to say b/c they obviously don't know jackshit about AAS. Then I'd slap them in the face. That is idiotic reasoning thought up by a moron, and I have a sneaking suspicion that moron is you.

 

[Quadsweep]

let me be clear that im not sayin you are wrong
but i have some doubts about the "must increase dosage every cycle or no gains" theory
quad said he did 3 grams of tes a week once
i doubt that is his standard cycle and i doubt he will have to go to 4g to grow
what ya say quad?

any way if the average free tes floating around in guys is like 6/9mg(i read that here somewhere)
and if you are ever "off" i mean really off and keep some muscle
how could you not grow on 500/750mg per week tes (thats 100x your normal guys level)

thats my thoughts

Actually it was 3grams total gear per week. I actually did not go over 500mg a week for liek 4 or 5 years and competed at national level at that dose. I do not go over 1 gram a week now. I do not think increased dose is nesassary to continue gains.

Quadsweep

 

[njmuscleguy]

My point was not that you need to increase dosages with each subsequent cycle... in fact, I usually tend to stay at the same dosages.....I'm saying, from experience, that I have not been able to "backtrack" and decrease dosages because the results were just not the same.... so if I were to have started my first cycle with 1 gram of test, then I probably wouldn't have fared so well on the next cycle if I dropped down to say 500 or 750mg/wk. So my point was that maybe it might not be a good idea to start your first cycle with high doses of AAS... only my experience of course

 

[caravan]

Actually it was 3grams total gear per week. I actually did not go over 500mg a week for liek 4 or 5 years and competed at national level at that dose. I do not go over 1 gram a week now. I do not think increased dose is nesassary to continue gains.

Quadsweep

Yeah, I'm on my first cycle, and I feel like I'm pushing it because I'm doing 600mgs of test cyp per week. My gains a reasonably good, but could be better if I trained harder/more often and had the money to buy beverly supplements instead of twinlabs $17 stuff. But hey poor guys gotta lift too. I'm on my 7th week and will run the the cyp for another 3, and then switch to enth @ the same dosage for the last 4-6 weeks.

 

[Ulter]

Did somebody actually tell you that or are you just trying to rationalize taking large quanities your 1st cycle? If anyone actually told you that I would completely disregard anything they have to say b/c they obviously don't know jackshit about AAS. Then I'd slap them in the face. That is idiotic reasoning thought up by a moron, and I have a sneaking suspicion that moron is you.

That "moran" was Dan Duchaine. And it's based in sound logic.

 

[1Mistake2006]

Since I started cycling 20 years ago I can't think of anyone who has said they injured themselves because they did a hefty first cycle and wouldn't have been injured if they went lighter. I don't know how you would determine that.

You have one shot at a first cycle. You will grow the most during this cycle. If you go light you're wasting that cycle. Dan Duchaine wrote extensively on this and he was right. 750mg/wk of test is the minimum one should consider for their first cycle.
I AM TALKING ABOUT BODY BUILDERS!! Not guys who say, "how do I get that Brad Pitt look" or "I just want to cut up and put on some lean mass" or "what's a good lean mass cycle".

Minimum:
750mg/wk of test
300mg/wk of deca
dbol to start
AIFM

Absolutely bro!! I've been in this game for well over 12yrs and prepped many National/Pro BBrs..they all wish they did more for their 1st cycle. You will grow more this cycle than any other(if its done correctly) If you train smart, injury is not an issue. 750mg test is the MINIMUM..side effect-wise,the difference between 500mg and 750mg is minimal...the gains far outweigh the negative....although I'm not a Deca fan.......

JJ

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Bro I just started week 7 of my first cycle (12 weeks total) and decided to hit it hard and kind of regret it. I've been an emotional wreck the entire time, I'm not sure how the other guys handle their stuff what all my emotions are amped up 10 fold.

Test E 500mg/wk 1-12
Eq 600mg/wk 1-12
Winny 50mg/ED 1-4
100mg/ED 8-12

are you using an AI?
some people that are prone to anxiety will have this exacerbated by high estrogen levels. Also what is your shot split like? test E should be shot at least twice a week to keep blood levels even.
winstrol can have unpleasant emotional side effects because its its impact on pregnenolone metabolism (especially in those that are prone).

 

[acneman]

are you using an AI?
some people that are prone to anxiety will have this exacerbated by high estrogen levels. Also what is your shot split like? test E should be shot at least twice a week to keep blood levels even.
winstrol can have unpleasant emotional side effects because its its impact on pregnenolone metabolism (especially in those that are prone).

how the fuck do you keep knowin all this stuff????
you have letters behind your name dont ya?
MS or perhaps PHD?
fuckin excellent as always mac
im gonna quit given you karma
you dont need it and im gettin carpal

 

[newbie210]

are you using an AI?
some people that are prone to anxiety will have this exacerbated by high estrogen levels. Also what is your shot split like? test E should be shot at least twice a week to keep blood levels even.
winstrol can have unpleasant emotional side effects because its its impact on pregnenolone metabolism (especially in those that are prone).

I'm running A-dex with it for bloating and what not but other then that nothing. .5mg/ED

both injected on Monday am and Thursaday pm

It's been less since I came off the winny but in 2 weeks I'm back on

What do you think I should look at for AI?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

dex nearly completely suppresses estrone (weak estrogen) even at low doses while allowing a significant amount of estradiol (strong estrogen) to still be produced (this is likely at least partly the reason for your issues)


have you been feeling better since coming of the winstrol? if not then it may not be the issue.

do you suffer from any form of depression or anxiety (even mild)?

as far an AI reccomend aromasin or AIFM

 

[macrophage69alpha]

as a note- boldenone has been linked to anxiety as well

 

[newbie210]

dex nearly completely suppresses estrone (weak estrogen) even at low doses while allowing a significant amount of estradiol (strong estrogen) to still be produced (this is likely at least partly the reason for your issues)


have you been feeling better since coming of the winstrol? if not then it may not be the issue.

do you suffer from any form of depression or anxiety (even mild)?

as far an AI reccomend aromasin or AIFM

To be honest most of this stems from my ex leaving me last week, that's the only reason I'm pressing on without adding anything. If it doesn't get better soon though I'll get some of that other stuff and give it a go.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

so were you experiencing emotional ups and downs prior to your ex leaving? was it due to issues between you and your ex?

you really should try to evaluate it.

also using steroids can cause issues between partners, since AAS will tend to increase self confidence and dominance. Ie if partner likes you a more mild and perhaps even submissive this can cause issues. (no idea whether this pertains to your situation-- though its a common theme)

 

[THE GOOD SUN]

how about promoting sensibility

just FYI ...this in NOT directed at anyone in particular ...so please nobody get upset

but many people just jump on AAS when they haven’t even got a clue that it involves sooo much more than just how much AAS you take ...they have no idea how important diet is ...and most don’t even know how to train properly ...and the list goes on.

most are just in a hurry to jump ON ...and when a little juice isn’t enough ...well then just crank up the volume bro!
...yeah don’t look at your diet, cuz, ummm, that’s not important.
...and yeah don’t cut out all the drinkin’ your doin’ cuz, ummm, that isn’t affecting your ability to gain.
...and for cryin’ out loud don’t pay any attention to the distress signals your body is sending you.

...they’re missing it and it shows cuz they look like 10lbs of crap in a 5lbs bag maybe with big biceps, bitch titz, and a bad attitude.
...and symmetry what’s that? (but that's another thread)

IMO if you’ve done proper research your doses should not be dictated by somebody else’s opinions ...start low and increase with common sense and proper precautions ***THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT YOU SHOULD NOT COMPARE NOTES*** ...but it should not be a case of “monkey see ...monkey do” cuz, as we all know, what’s good for one monkey might not necessarily be good for another monkey.

along with knowledge and common sense ...dedication and discipline are also key components that are often missing ...and I’ll can illustrate this point by saying that if you took AAS out of say Quadsweep's equasion (and others on this board) he’d still be jacked by many standards cuz all the other components are there ...and would still look like he’s ON by many people’s opinions.

IMO ...in short your AAS dose has less to do with your growth potential (initial cycle or not) than does your diet, rest, supplementation, dedication, and discipline, and your training experience.

so especially for your first cycle ...when you don’t know how you’re gonna react to this stuff both mentally and physically ...what’s wrong with starting off at a lower dose and gradually increasing it till you find YOUR PARTICULAR happy medium (basically simply ramping up)
...if it turns out to be 500mg/week ...OK
...if it turns out to be 1000mg/week ...OK
...and if it turns out to be 2000mg/week ...well OK then!

 

[reaper99]

This is not my first cycle so to speak I did a half assed put together cycle of test deca dbol. Very poorly thought out but I was 19 and stupid, but I feel I have alot of room for growth and muscle is not so hard for me to put on. All in all that was 6-7 years ago and i am gonna give it a real go, diet and training are solid. Emotionally blah blah, I am not bothered by drugs like that so I am not worried about the heavy dosage sides. So is my first cycle growth blown cause of the half ass cycle i did when i was 19, or am i still good to go? I am thinking something like this.

600mg/wk deca
600mg/wk test E
possibly adding primo at 600 mg/wk or EQ at same dosage.
and some tbol or dbol? Thinking 12-16 weeks for all substances except for the orals.
Any thoughts cause I am totally feeling what ulter is saying..

 

[pitbullrocco]

Since I started cycling 20 years ago I can't think of anyone who has said they injured themselves because they did a hefty first cycle and wouldn't have been injured if they went lighter. I don't know how you would determine that.

You have one shot at a first cycle. You will grow the most during this cycle. If you go light you're wasting that cycle. Dan Duchaine wrote extensively on this and he was right. 750mg/wk of test is the minimum one should consider for their first cycle.
I AM TALKING ABOUT BODY BUILDERS!! Not guys who say, "how do I get that Brad Pitt look" or "I just want to cut up and put on some lean mass" or "what's a good lean mass cycle".

Minimum:
750mg/wk of test
300mg/wk of deca
dbol to start
AIFM

that was almost exactly my first cycle.....i agree with ULT....great first cycle if your training and diet are spot on.....i even upped my doses just a bit after 6 weeks b/c i felt i could handle more.....and just increasing the small amount did wonders for growth and strength.....

the thing is - different people will respond differently even to the same doses. you have to be able to work with your body and listen to what its saying/feeling. once you can do that, whatever you do is right for you.

either way, there's no reason to waste time on your first cycle when the difference between 250 and 500 (or 500 to 750 for that matter) can mean bulges and not sides.

 

[20ss02]

I'm another advocate for high doses for a first cycle. Most first time cycles I see on this site are too light. I see a lot of regret about going so low, but I've yet to see a case of regret for using higher doses. Here is my first cycle from 2000:

Sust 750mg/week
EQ 400mg/week
Dbol 40mg/day (weeks 1-4)

I grew like a weed. I have no regrets and no adverse health conditions.