who has used epo before?

[perfectspecimen]

i was going to try epo at 2000iu once a week sub-q for 8 weeks.
i am 245lbs. i know that is a low dose but will that do anything for endurance and red blood cell production.

 

[nautica]

why not just stay safe and use equipoise???

Nautica

 

[perfectspecimen]

i am finishing up my cycle with eq. i want to use the epo when i am off just to increase endurance and red blood cell production. the usual dose would be 5000iu twice a week sub-q, i was thinking of 2000iu once a week sub-q to be safe

 

[perfectspecimen]

bump

 

[perfectspecimen]

bump

 

[fhg43]

bump

I am doing some research for you so hold your "horses" hehehehe ;-)

Seriously-
FHG

 

[gainerxxl]

Get your hematocrit checked, doing equipoise and epo might lead to a very high blood viscosity, which can be harmful.
Remember, all those endurance athletes using Epo are under the supervision of good doctors all the time, nothing to fool around with.

 

[perfectspecimen]

i will be off all steroids for 6 weeks before i start epo

 

[fhg43]

i am finishing up my cycle with eq. i want to use the epo when i am off just to increase endurance and red blood cell production. the usual dose would be 5000iu twice a week sub-q, i was thinking of 2000iu once a week sub-q to be safe

1. I've never done EPO but since I am an elite cyclist I just happen to know alot about it-when you get your elite cyclist manual; chapter 11 is on EPO usage. ;-)

2. 2000iu once a week to start should be fine. I'll need to check my info @ home but I think you can safely do 2000iu 3x/week or 5000iu/2wk. I think the Festina guys in 1998 were doing 10,000iu/wk-which would boost you over 50% (probably close to 60%). I have heard that it is done IV, IM, or subQ. I'm not sure which one is correct or if all are applicable.

3. Have you done it before? The pumps can be bad. Your muscles will fill with blood. Also the post cycle crash is bad. You should time your EPO usage so the cycle ends close to a rest period. A few weeks after your last EPO inj you will feel very tired and lack endurance. When injecting EPO your body quits producing its natural EPO. So when you quit taking EPO you aren't producing many new blood cells which limits oxygen transport to muscles which makes you fatigue faster. don't spend extended periods of time on it as it can really screw up your natural EPO production. More than one pro cyclist is on EPO for life.

4. To get the full effect you need to take supplemental iron and B12. Plus it helps to stay hydrated so blood the blood isn't as thick. You'll have more plasma, but this would help it from clogging(!) and pooling in certain areas of the body.

I'll do more research and get back to you.

FHG

 

[fhg43]

bump

 

[fhg43]

My info at home about EPO dosage says:

150iu/kg/week will prompt a 5 percentage point hematocrit increase within 3 weeks (subject went from 45% hematocrit to 50%). So if you weigh 70kg you can take 0500iu of EPO per week. I'd split this dosage over 2-3 injections.

OR

181-232iu/kg/week will prompt a 8 percentage point hematocrit increase within 4 weeks (subject went from 43% hematocrit to 51%-which is over the UCI legal limit). So if you weigh 70kg you can take 12700 to 16200iu of EPO per week. I'd split this dosage over 3 injections. I'd avoid this dosage if you AREN'T an elite endurance athlete-your heart might not be strong enough to pump the thick blood!!

I've heard some guys wear their heart rate monitors to sleep at night and set the lower alarm for like 35 BPM. The alarm will go off and hopefully wake them up. This is to keep resting heart rate from getting TOO LOW-if the alarm goes off you need to move around to get the blood pumping. Recently a Belgian kid (cyclist) died in his sleep from a heart attack. Typically this is EPO related. I'm not sure if the HRM at night idea is needed or EPO 'urban myth.' IMO it sounds like a good idea.

Remember-water, B12, iron along with EPO.

Good luck-be safe

FHG

 

[nautica]

I am confused???

You said for a 5% increase take 0500 iu per week.

and for an 8% increase take 12700 to 16200 per week.

Surely it is a typo - but I would hate for a typo to give me a heart attack.

nautica

 

[bazilbb]

not good stuff IMO, read somewhere that few cyclists died of it due to heart and blood clogging problem of same team, who were on EPO. get some Oxy which is a good choice and safer too.

 

[fhg43]

I am confused???

You said for a 5% increase take 0500 iu per week.

and for an 8% increase take 12700 to 16200 per week.

Surely it is a typo - but I would hate for a typo to give me a heart attack.

nautica

It was a typo- here is what it should have said:
'5% increase take 10500 iu per week'

The dosages are correct. However, I think people can benefit from as little as 6000iu weekly.

FHG

 

[ccorah]

Just curious. But does a 5 % increase in red blood cell count translate to 5% increase in the cardiovascular endurance performance. Say for example a 5% lower 1 mile run time with a 5% increase in red blood cells? Or is the relationship nonlinear?

It was a typo- here is what it should have said:
'5% increase take 10500 iu per week'

The dosages are correct. However, I think people can benefit from as little as 6000iu weekly.

FHG

 

[fhg43]

Just curious. But does a 5 % increase in red blood cell count translate to 5% increase in the cardiovascular endurance performance. Say for example a 5% lower 1 mile run time with a 5% increase in red blood cells? Or is the relationship nonlinear?

The performance increase is non-linear. In fact its exponential. the reason EPO is so popular amongst runners, triathletes, cyclists, swimmers is because it works very well.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any testing done on athletes re: the percentage of improvement one gets from EPO usage. I think a study may have been done but I can't think of one. Thjey have done all kinds of studies on the physiological affects on athletes.

However, all research points to major improvements in performance. Anecdotal evidence definitely supports a major improvement in performance. Sports doctors know the why EPO should work but it is difficult to quantify the amount of improvement. However most users report it makes them much much faster and their is a huge improvement in endurance. MDs who prescribe it to cancer or dialysis patients see great results. Patients report improved energy and less fatigue within a week or 2.

I think a 5% increase in hematocrit may equate to a 10% improvement in performance. That's huge. Thats like not training and going froma 5min mile to a 4:30min mile!

FHG