When it will STOP ?? WHEN ?

[VictorBR]

When it will stop ?

When people will realize that AAS if just for experienced and trained athletes who have been training for at least 3 consecutive years and have reached their genectic limits ?

I mean , everytime I go to the gym or I talk to someone , I hear : " Hey , I am 2 years without touching a weight , just got back to weigth training right now , I can't even bench 120 lbs , but I am already starting a cycle right now !

Today I was at a local store and I met an old buddy from school :" He said : Hey I am gonna work out at X gym , I said cool : I am working out there , He said he was just getting back after 3 years of sedentarism . He is like 155 lbs or something like that . He told me he was just starting a cycle of SUST , and winny . I told him : Man , you don't even know what a intense training is , you are so skinny and untrained , you can probably gain 30 pounds by just doing the right diet and training consistently . Work ULTRA hard for 3 or 4 years , reach your genectic limits AND THEN , you can start thinking about AAS , but not NOW "

His replie :

" Oh c'mon I am not gonna grow without AAS "

>>> People seriously need to realize, that AAS and performance enhancing drugs are not for the average joe . It is for someone trying to achieve something , be it the gold medal or be it an outstanding body . But either way , you must have LOTS of experience and knowledge about training and diet . After you have those two in check , and have been busting your ass for years , then you can think about AAS or any other performance enhancing drug .


Every day the storie repeats itself , I am kinda tired of such ignorance .

Sorry , just had to let it out .


Victor

 

[CPA22]

hey vic,

We are the last of a dying breed. Thats what it comes down to my man. I use to be the same way you were, just criticize everyone and tell them they are not ready.

Truth is vic, they are going to do what they want to whether you like it or not. Just smile and take them for what they are.

CPA22

 

[VictorBR]

Yeah bro , it is sad but it is true .

They will just do it , because they think that AAS makes them grow , they don't realize that DIET and training will make them grow , AAS will speed it up for sure , but without proper diet and training the gains will be minimal .

NO wonder why I see a bunch of guys that uses AAS and looks worse than my 83 year old grandfather .


Victor

 

[GoldenDelicious]

victor some people are satisfied with a far worse sides:benefit ratio than you are.

imo going into AAS straight off the bat is a mistake because you get a whole heap of AAS related sides that you dont NEED to accept, since you can do so well training naturally in the beginning

there are lots of people out there who just dont have what it takes to reach even that level, and for these guys, it doesnt matter what you or i do or say, tis a simple choice of 1) no AAS, no workouts, no gains, or 2) AAS, some workouts, some sides, some gains.

i know where youre coming from, but at the same time i know where theyre coming from. in a perfect world i would like to see people train for at least (absolute minimum) 1 year with dedication before even thinking about AAS, but it just isnt going to happen, for the same reason taht you ahve so many obese people eating shitty food and whining about looking and feeling like shit. its because many people are plain stupid and lazy. nothing else to it really. stupid. ignorant. lazy. bastards.

 

[VictorBR]

SO true my man , like always your words are words of wisdom


Victor

 

[tboy72]

quick question vic or anyone with an answer. how long, on ave, does it take to reach your genetic limits? training on and off (do to a back problem) since 98. and i could not no matter what make any more significant gains in size or strength especially on chest, no matter what i did. i started my first cycle in jan of this year, and on incline bench i have added 90 lbs. so i guess i just answered my own question. but in your opinion when do you think this occurs?

 

[Jenetic]

When it will stop ?

When people will realize that AAS if just for experienced and trained athletes who have been training for at least 3 consecutive years and have reached their genectic limits ?

It's a damn shame that this kind of situation is becoming more prevalant and wide spread these days. You would think that the game would have evolved by now. It has to some extent in regards to basic drug profiles and other accesable information but the most crucial factors of training and nutrition are usually not asociated with the latter. One reason is that it is very difficult to combine the two in a legally justifyable manner. In addition, the coaches and drug dealers can manipulate the younger kids for their own financial or egotistical benefit.

The problem has to do with education. When a person lacks knolwedge from education, he or she is not able to make a rationable decision. I truly believe that the school systems should have a one and half year, 3 semester, mandatory health and exercise program for students which focuses on modern nutrition, exercise and physiology.

With education early in a persons life, he or she will be able to apply the latest/safest methods to their exercise and nutrition program. This should also include the risks commonly associated with performance enhancing substances. I'm sure a full blown case of gynecomastia, acne, receeding hairline and some small balls are enough to make most people think twice. Especailly, if they can already see the benefits of maximizing their exercise and nutrition. If they are not physically active, hopefully, it will also spread awareness on the benefits of exercise and nutrition which should be common practice in everyones life.

Unfortunately, this is not the case. We live in a society that demands perfection. We are all a product of our environments and experiences. Some of us just have to learn the hard way. Fortunately, their are excellent resources now such as Elite Fitness, modern books/literature and legitimate scientific studies by credible universities and organizations which are all readily accessable if desired.

This may sound somewhat retarded, but it really is up to us to shape the future. The only problem is, although we are aware, there aren't enough of us whom truly feel passionate or concerned in taking the step forward to bring this widespread matter to the proper attention of the people who can take action and make things happen.

 

[Riker29]

Its a total left-wing, welfare-state, "entitlement" mentality applied to muscles.

Everyone wants a shortcut, they feel thay are "entitled" to muscles. They see others with them, and they want them. They don't want to do the work and put in the effort, they just look and say "I want that" and feel the world owes it to them to allow them to have it now, and easily. They probably will screw up their health, and then expect others to pay for their health care with tax dollars as well.

Lazy asses.

I say make steroids legal, but make gyno surgery a crime. That way anyone dumb enough to use anabolics incorrectly will walk around with boobs all their life! LOL

 

[GoldenDelicious]

The problem has to do with education. When a person lacks knolwedge from education, he or she is not able to make a rationable decision. I truly believe that the school systems should have a one and half year, 3 semester, mandatory health and exercise program for students which focuses on modern nutrition, exercise and physiology.

i have often said the same sort of thing.

its amazing that people are willing to go to business seminars etc etc and study for years to improve their economic condition, work overtime to wring out that extra 3% return on an investment, and yet are so woefully ignorant regarding their body, what goes into it, and what it will do

at the very least people should be able to identify the different macronutrient profiles of common foods (simple fat, protein, carb content), and understand how to eat these foods in conjunction with different exercise regimes to alter their bodys state and achieve their goals

i mean really, the main cause of morbidity/mortality in the general population is a simple lack of taking care of your body. most people do dig their graves with a fork

anyway ill stop my rant. i remember back in my uni days being lectured by some pot bellied bastard on how to eat and drink to maintain proper health. fuck off, wanker. practice what you preach and then maybe ill give you a little credibility, but if you show me a fucking 1960s food pyramid with carbohydrates at the bottom and fats at the top ill rip off my shirt, flex, give you the finger and then stalk out of the building

 

[Jenetic]

i mean really, the main cause of morbidity/mortality in the general population is a simple lack of taking care of your body. most people do dig their graves with a fork

anyway ill stop my rant. i remember back in my uni days being lectured by some pot bellied bastard on how to eat and drink to maintain proper health. fuck off, wanker. practice what you preach and then maybe ill give you a little credibility, but if you show me a fucking 1960s food pyramid with carbohydrates at the bottom and fats at the top ill rip off my shirt, flex, give you the finger and then stalk out of the building

LMAO

 

[borg4902]

I started my first cycle 6 mo. after I ever started training and now im the biggest guy at my gym. I dont think it matters what the hell your genetic limit is because I blew past it like it was standin still. I definitally agree that I should have weighted till I was well trained and was at a standstill but man to tell you the truth it made me a lot more strict with my workouts and diet. I figured if im shelling out all of this doe I better train hard as fuck and eat the same way. It worked I didnt cheat once ever when I was on. I had a lot of peer preasure to start using and I gave in period. One of the guys I really looked up to benched 595 once and really looked big. When I found out he used I was very dissapointed and figured if I cant beet him join him. The drugs honestly straitened out many harmful problems in my life at that time and kept me totally to the grindstone. I think in any situation people should think about what they put into their boddies, but I damn well know that a cycle of steroid use isnt anywhere near as bad as a nightly drinking habbit followed by heavy poor diet and occational large drug use. Which is what I did before I changed my life.

 

[Ulcasterdropout]

It's never gonna stop man! Ever....
N00bs will always come from nowhere
and think some Dbol will make them look
like Conan. They don't want to hear about diet
and heavy ass weight. They want gains yesterday.
If they are gonna juice any damn way, let them
waste the bread, lose their gains (if they actually make any),
and hopefully not kill their balls in the process...
Some people just have to learn by fucking up first hand
and all the good advise is a waste of breath/keystrokes..

My 2 cents

 

[DIVISION]

Shit Don't Stop........

It's never gonna stop man! Ever....
N00bs will always come from nowhere If they are gonna juice any damn way, let them waste the bread, lose their gains (if they actually make any),
and hopefully not kill their balls in the process...
Some people just have to learn by fucking up first hand
and all the good advise is a waste of breath/keystrokes

Some people have to learn the hard way, as in every aspect of life, this is no different. Even though we both came from the same places, the money and the juice made us all chance places. Live and learn.

 

[Gonzosc1]

Great thread, I can see it from the other side as I am a noob at 40 and I would like to see some difference in my body. but I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, while I may be out of shape and carry more then aveage fat % the whole steroid deal just plain scares me. sure I would like muscle yesterday but I won't fuck up my already fucked up body to get it. thats my reason for being here, I read the threads, pickup info and will try to do my best with regular supps and sweat. to all the other noobs, you should be scared of roids, you may as well put a gun to your head and pull the trigger now and get it over with.

 

[NJRipped]

I'm having trouble understanding this argument. On one hand, people on the board state that juice should be legalized and that it is safe. On the other, they are claiming that people who just started training are going to screw themselves up. It doesn't make any sense - either it is safe or it isn't. Now if the view is that a person brand new to training will not juice "safely" then wouldn't it be ok to juice once sufficient knowledge about juicing is gained.

 

[Gonzosc1]

I'm having trouble understanding this argument. On one hand, people on the board state that juice should be legalized and that it is safe. On the other, they are claiming that people who just started training are going to screw themselves up. It doesn't make any sense - either it is safe or it isn't. Now if the view is that a person brand new to training will not juice "safely" then wouldn't it be ok to juice once sufficient knowledge about juicing is gained.

Either it is safe or it isn't----NO NO NO
That a big misunderstanding IMO..almost anything can be misused, food, supps, your car and so on. "knowledge does not = power" only the correct use of that knowledge can = power. the world is full of people with knowledge
but look around and what do you see??
I'm no expert but I do see that things are always changing, nothing stays the same. and bodybuilding is no exception to that rule either. So no one can say they all the answers. knowledge is only as good as the person using it.

 

[needsize]

it took me at least 7 years of serious training to hit my genetic limit, and even then it took a few years of thought and research before I decided to do it, and my wife was okay with it

 

[Gonzosc1]

it took me at least 7 years of serious training to hit my genetic limit, and even then it took a few years of thought and research before I decided to do it, and my wife was okay with it

Needsize, just for the sake of asking. what was your first thoughts when you first decided to start. you did the research and all, but did you have any fears about it in the begining?

 

[NJRipped]

So, what you are saying is that the correct use of knowledge about juice, even from a newbie, is as safe as someone, with the same knowledge, and who has met his genetic limit? Again, we are not talking about the effectiveness of the steroid but the safety factor.

only the correct use of that knowledge can = power. /QUOTE]

 

[georgie24]

hey vic shot ya some k

 

[NYBodyguard]

never

 

[BigGuns29]

If people werent asking questions or having some sort of problems, these boards would be empty. They are just curious and asking questions. It is better than going at it blind and doing something to kill yourself, like jumping on dnp while having heart problems. If you read these boards, you will notice most of these people are starting at the same place some of you did, just asing questions. If you want to answer them cool, answer them, but dont rip them. If its a dumb one, pm that person the link to the obvious answer. The whole reason for these boards is information. Just trying to settle things down and throw my 2cents in. lets not make these boards non-existant, lets just give them answers and go on.

 

[genarr3]

it took me at least 7 years of serious training to hit my genetic limit, and even then it took a few years of thought and research before I decided to do it, and my wife was okay with it

Sounds like we come from the same school. I didn't go anywhere near gear after training nearly 10 years. When I did start using I actually looked like someone that uses steroids.

That's what I find amusing, guys taking huge amounts of gear for bodies that could be obtianed naturally. Some even looking like they barely workout. It isn't about the drugs fellas.

 

[majutsu]

I agree with all this, although the moralizing tone makes me very nervous. After training on and off for 15+ years, including training with two florida nationals level bbs I lived with for years, I was still discouraged from using the same cycle as a slightly bigger guy by the same fellow. I did the cycle, and now I am much bigger and he won't speak to me. I guess I was supposed to be his little protege forever . . . So I really don't like this, "I am the king of steroids and training, and I decide when people are ready" attitude. It often boils down to ego, jealously and fear of others surpassing you with gifts uncovered, in my experience.

HOWEVER, I agree with you in general. Put simply, steroids are PERFORMANCE ENHANCERS, right? If there is no PERFORMANCE, what exactly are you ENHANCING?

 

[strongsmartsexy]

You can lay part of the blame on the gyms and trainers we have today. Most people join a gym to make a difference for one reason or another. They sign up at the gym and then are either left on their own or are going to take some form of training from a trainer. The trainers at most of the gyms I've seen couldn't get results from the most genetically gifted people.

Not everyone wants to study every aspect of the kenesiology, diet, AAS, etc. They're looking for a formula to get them some level of results while they're in the gym. Sometimes I think that if you folks approaced driving a car like you do AAS etc, you'd never drive. Who's going to drive a car by learning how an engine works, their drive train, etc, etc, etc? You learn some basic rules of the operation of the vehicle, take some amount of training, then get in and start practicing...

While I do agree that too damn many people want shortcuts and believe that AAS is that short cut, I think that the front end of this gym/training system is completely broken. And until someone finds a way to make money by fixing that system, things are not likely to change.

Most guys are simple minded enough in their approach, that if you set them out a diet and training, they'll simply follow it. Then if you have checkpoints occasionally to tweak it, they'll likely see results and start expanding what they're doing.

I can't see paying a trainer $70/hr it costs here in Sandyeggo to help me with training or diet since most of them look like complete crap even on a good day. If they're not successful with themselves, theyr'e surely not going to be successful with me.

 

[BigGuns29]

You can lay part of the blame on the gyms and trainers we have today. Most people join a gym to make a difference for one reason or another. They sign up at the gym and then are either left on their own or are going to take some form of training from a trainer. The trainers at most of the gyms I've seen couldn't get results from the most genetically gifted people.

Not everyone wants to study every aspect of the kenesiology, diet, AAS, etc. They're looking for a formula to get them some level of results while they're in the gym. Sometimes I think that if you folks approaced driving a car like you do AAS etc, you'd never drive. Who's going to drive a car by learning how an engine works, their drive train, etc, etc, etc? You learn some basic rules of the operation of the vehicle, take some amount of training, then get in and start practicing...

While I do agree that too damn many people want shortcuts and believe that AAS is that short cut, I think that the front end of this gym/training system is completely broken. And until someone finds a way to make money by fixing that system, things are not likely to change.

Most guys are simple minded enough in their approach, that if you set them out a diet and training, they'll simply follow it. Then if you have checkpoints occasionally to tweak it, they'll likely see results and start expanding what they're doing.

I can't see paying a trainer $70/hr it costs here in Sandyeggo to help me with training or diet since most of them look like complete crap even on a good day. If they're not successful with themselves, theyr'e surely not going to be successful with me.

Well said!

 

[CPA22]

I am going to have to disagree with this comment.


Some of the most knowledgable people about anabolics, diet, training etc are not in very good shape at all. They were just delt a bad hand as far as genetics. I would trust a lot of these people much more then i trust someone who is genetically gifted and huge..

 

[needsize]

Needsize, just for the sake of asking. what was your first thoughts when you first decided to start. you did the research and all, but did you have any fears about it in the begining?

I was excited when I finally decided to do it, as I knew that I would actually be able to achieve the physique that I had busted my ass for so many years for. For the longest time, I believed the hype when the huge guys claimed they were natural, I believed them and thought that there must be something wrong with me then. I had a few fears about long term sides, but the blood tests that I get all the time made those go away

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I am going to have to disagree with this comment.


Some of the most knowledgable people about anabolics, diet, training etc are not in very good shape at all. They were just delt a bad hand as far as genetics. I would trust a lot of these people much more then i trust someone who is genetically gifted and huge..

I've watched these people train others. I've spent time talking to them about training etc. They're the same ones who'll bitch about doing 1000lb leg presses and heavy squats and deadlifts. "Oh you don't have to do those..."

Yah, I'll put my money on them...

 

[needsize]

genarr, I couldnt agree more. It always kills me when I see guys juicing, and they have bodies that anyone could have with just a little bit of food and training. If I'm sticking needles in my ass, then it damn well better look like I juice

 

[borg4902]

I love it when 85% of the people who come up to me ask me if I juice and tell them "fuck no im nutural" and smile to myself. lol Or when you flex for some chick and vains pop out everywhere and there all like oh my god that gross you look like one of those steroid guys on tv. Thats when you know those few exttra reps paid off.

 

[Gonzosc1]

So, what you are saying is that the correct use of knowledge about juice, even from a newbie, is as safe as someone, with the same knowledge, and who has met his genetic limit? Again, we are not talking about the effectiveness of the steroid but the safety factor.

only the correct use of that knowledge can = power. /QUOTE]

NJRipped, I did not said that. I see where you are going with this but if your going to quote me please use the whole quote. I also said that the knowledge is only as good as the person using it. now, to put your statement back in the context that you are trying to quote me on the answer would be NO.. to compare a noob like myself with someone with more time invested is not logical. you have to take into account the state of mind of people. example would be NEEDSIZE, he said he trained 7 years before using. I don't know him but I'm sure when he first started training the thought "might" have crossed his mind to use. but he trained ,did his workhome and then applied his knowledge properly I hope.
Now if we take a noob that just can't wait. he might have done all the homework and maybe more..but he doesn't want to wait or put in the proper training, he wants muscle now, he sees people on this and other boards and maybe sees some of his close friends all pumped up. sure he has the knowledge but his state of mind is all wrong. for anyone to apply the roid knowledge they have while in a dream state of mind IMO is nuts....
I think it comes down to good old peer pressure that make noobs jump in the deep end of the pool.