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ffknight84
New member
People shoot for a 500 pound squat, a 300 pound bench, but whats a good, really good, and great power clean poundage???
What's a good power clean number
- Thread starter ffknight84
- Start date
S
slobberknocker
Guest
Isn't the record around 500 or so?
S
slobberknocker
Guest
My friend squats 765, but he can only clean like 285.
Just a guess really- I used to squat a lot more and NOT clean that much more, but thinking back now, I never realized how jacked up my technique was back then... realistically I think it takes a TON of practice to really get the most out of the lift....
I think CoolColJ also had a similar equation (500/300) if memory serves...
I saw a guy clean 440 (the most I have ever seen in person), he squatted in the 700's... I thought that was rediculous as it was about 100 lbs over my clean and our squats were similar at the time... the difference I think was technique...
I think CoolColJ also had a similar equation (500/300) if memory serves...
I saw a guy clean 440 (the most I have ever seen in person), he squatted in the 700's... I thought that was rediculous as it was about 100 lbs over my clean and our squats were similar at the time... the difference I think was technique...
Scotsman-
I think you are right in a lot of ways on this one, there are a lot more factors which would make a difference than at first glance, a few-
How explosive is their squat? (time from bottom to top)
How good is their technique, how much experience?
How balanced are they, what is their core strength like?
I am sure there are quite a few more factors, but if everything else being equal (technique, explosiveness, etc-which I know is just a hypotetical) I would guess the guy with the bigger squat would clean more...
I think you are right in a lot of ways on this one, there are a lot more factors which would make a difference than at first glance, a few-
How explosive is their squat? (time from bottom to top)
How good is their technique, how much experience?
How balanced are they, what is their core strength like?
I am sure there are quite a few more factors, but if everything else being equal (technique, explosiveness, etc-which I know is just a hypotetical) I would guess the guy with the bigger squat would clean more...
Z
Zoalord
Guest
All of these ratios are arbitrary. Place importance upon them if you so desire but, at the end of the day, what you can do is what you can do.
coolcolj
New member
It all depends on the depth you catch it as well - muscle clean (catch with minimal leg bend) , power (1/4 squat), squat clean near parallel or lower.
Oly lifts depends on speed strength, not everyone has the same ability at this, although the powerclean is less so than the power snatch.
here are some ratios from CT
Team sport athletes
f) power clean / hang clean
Average: 1.0 - 1.25
Strong: 1.3 - 1.5
Very strong: 1.6 +
g) snatch
Average: 0.7 - 0.9
Strong: 1.0 - 1.2
Very strong: 1.3 +
Strength athletes:
f) power clean / hang clean
Average: 1.2 - 1.4
Strong: 1.5 - 1.8
Very strong: 1.9 +
g) snatch
Average: 1.0 - 1.2
Strong: 1.3 - 1.4
Very strong: 1.5 +
Bodybuilders
f) power clean / hang clean
Average: 0.8 - 1.1
Strong: 1.2 - 1.3
Very strong: 1.4 +
g) snatch
Average: 0.6 - 0.8
Strong: 0.9 - 1.1
Very strong: 1.2 +
-----
some words from CT - no correlation between oly lifts and squats
I asked this question to him, and got a great thread out of it
Christian Thibaudeau
03/08/03
07:42 PM
Canada
There is actually little correlation between what you can squat and what you can snatch (especially power snatch). I'll give you several examples:
1. Last summer I trained with a world championship lifter and I was actually able to outsquat him (550lbs to 505lbs) however his power snatch was much higher than mine (330lbs to 280lbs).
2. I've trained with a guy (94kg class) who could barely do 3 reps with 315lbs in the squat, yet could snatch 275lbs and power clean 315lbs!
3. I have also trained with a lifter (77kg) who could only squat 330lbs but could snatch 235lbs and clean & jerk 300lbs.
4. I had two hockey players, one who back squatted 375lbs for 2 reps but only did 205lbs on the power clean (despite good technique and a lot of speed) and another one who squatted less (352lbs x 1) but who power cleaned 300lbs.
5. I trained with a few powerlifters who could deadlift over 700lbs (one was close to 800lbs) and squatt over 680lbs but who could only power clean 275lbs (and they did practice the lifts, it was not and odd lift fro them).
6. I started training for competition again last monday. I must say that I had neglected my legs during my "body transformation" phase. But after only two olympic lifting session (after a 4 months break) I snatched 5kg less than my all-time best, jerked 5kg MORE than my all-time best and cleaned 10kg less than my all-time best. In the mean time my back squat regressed by over 75lbs and my front squat by close to 50lbs. AND I am now 30lbs lighter than when I did set my olympic lifting PBs. So in my case, leg strength is not well correlated with results in the classic lifts.
There was a time when I would think that the more I increased my squat, the more I would clean and snatch. That just wasn't the case AT ALL!
7. I own several Ironmind training hall tapes and very often the strongest squatters are not the strongest lifters when it comes to the olympic lifts.
Using proportions to know what you *should* be able to do is absolutely worthless at best and probably even counterproductive.
Christian Thibaudeau
03/08/03
08:30 PM
Canada
Cool, a relative beginner with low starting strength levels in the squat will increase his olympic lifting a lot by gaining leg strength. However at some point, gaining more brute strength will no yield the same level of improvement and eventually even large strength gains will not lead to improvement in your olympic lifts.
Zatsiorsky talks about this in his book "Science and Practice of Strength Training". Basically saying that when you lack strength, improving it will yiled great power gains. But if you already have sufficient brute strength, adding even more won't add much power.
At some point in your lifting career you might found that gaining 25lbs on your squat will lead to gains of 25lbs on your snatch or clean. At other times even a 50lbs increase in your squat won't bring you an improvement in your clean or snatch. At other times your squat may stay stable or even regress while you gain more strength in your clean or snatch.
When I first started olympic lifting I could full squat 405lbs, clean 250lbs and snatch 175lbs. Increasing my squat to 485lbs improved my snatch to 253lbs and my clean to 319lbs, a combined gain of 147lbs.
When I increased my squat to 575lbs I increased my snatch to 291lbs and my clean to 352lbs (I did clean 374lbs from the hang though) for a relatively similar gain in squatting strength I only improved my total by 71lbs, half the gains as with my previous squat improvement. So even in one individual the ratio between the squat and clean/snatch will vary during his career.
Oly lifts depends on speed strength, not everyone has the same ability at this, although the powerclean is less so than the power snatch.
here are some ratios from CT
Team sport athletes
f) power clean / hang clean
Average: 1.0 - 1.25
Strong: 1.3 - 1.5
Very strong: 1.6 +
g) snatch
Average: 0.7 - 0.9
Strong: 1.0 - 1.2
Very strong: 1.3 +
Strength athletes:
f) power clean / hang clean
Average: 1.2 - 1.4
Strong: 1.5 - 1.8
Very strong: 1.9 +
g) snatch
Average: 1.0 - 1.2
Strong: 1.3 - 1.4
Very strong: 1.5 +
Bodybuilders
f) power clean / hang clean
Average: 0.8 - 1.1
Strong: 1.2 - 1.3
Very strong: 1.4 +
g) snatch
Average: 0.6 - 0.8
Strong: 0.9 - 1.1
Very strong: 1.2 +
-----
some words from CT - no correlation between oly lifts and squats
I asked this question to him, and got a great thread out of it
Christian Thibaudeau
03/08/03
07:42 PM
Canada
There is actually little correlation between what you can squat and what you can snatch (especially power snatch). I'll give you several examples:
1. Last summer I trained with a world championship lifter and I was actually able to outsquat him (550lbs to 505lbs) however his power snatch was much higher than mine (330lbs to 280lbs).
2. I've trained with a guy (94kg class) who could barely do 3 reps with 315lbs in the squat, yet could snatch 275lbs and power clean 315lbs!
3. I have also trained with a lifter (77kg) who could only squat 330lbs but could snatch 235lbs and clean & jerk 300lbs.
4. I had two hockey players, one who back squatted 375lbs for 2 reps but only did 205lbs on the power clean (despite good technique and a lot of speed) and another one who squatted less (352lbs x 1) but who power cleaned 300lbs.
5. I trained with a few powerlifters who could deadlift over 700lbs (one was close to 800lbs) and squatt over 680lbs but who could only power clean 275lbs (and they did practice the lifts, it was not and odd lift fro them).
6. I started training for competition again last monday. I must say that I had neglected my legs during my "body transformation" phase. But after only two olympic lifting session (after a 4 months break) I snatched 5kg less than my all-time best, jerked 5kg MORE than my all-time best and cleaned 10kg less than my all-time best. In the mean time my back squat regressed by over 75lbs and my front squat by close to 50lbs. AND I am now 30lbs lighter than when I did set my olympic lifting PBs. So in my case, leg strength is not well correlated with results in the classic lifts.
There was a time when I would think that the more I increased my squat, the more I would clean and snatch. That just wasn't the case AT ALL!
7. I own several Ironmind training hall tapes and very often the strongest squatters are not the strongest lifters when it comes to the olympic lifts.
Using proportions to know what you *should* be able to do is absolutely worthless at best and probably even counterproductive.
Christian Thibaudeau
03/08/03
08:30 PM
Canada
Cool, a relative beginner with low starting strength levels in the squat will increase his olympic lifting a lot by gaining leg strength. However at some point, gaining more brute strength will no yield the same level of improvement and eventually even large strength gains will not lead to improvement in your olympic lifts.
Zatsiorsky talks about this in his book "Science and Practice of Strength Training". Basically saying that when you lack strength, improving it will yiled great power gains. But if you already have sufficient brute strength, adding even more won't add much power.
At some point in your lifting career you might found that gaining 25lbs on your squat will lead to gains of 25lbs on your snatch or clean. At other times even a 50lbs increase in your squat won't bring you an improvement in your clean or snatch. At other times your squat may stay stable or even regress while you gain more strength in your clean or snatch.
When I first started olympic lifting I could full squat 405lbs, clean 250lbs and snatch 175lbs. Increasing my squat to 485lbs improved my snatch to 253lbs and my clean to 319lbs, a combined gain of 147lbs.
When I increased my squat to 575lbs I increased my snatch to 291lbs and my clean to 352lbs (I did clean 374lbs from the hang though) for a relatively similar gain in squatting strength I only improved my total by 71lbs, half the gains as with my previous squat improvement. So even in one individual the ratio between the squat and clean/snatch will vary during his career.
Last edited:
SofaGeorge
New member
Zoalord said:
My philosopy as well. It isn't how much you do... it is that you do YOUR best.
First off- I am new here, so I just want everyone to know I don't believe in absolutes, there is always more to learn, though I do enjoy discussing ideas....
By the way CoolColJ, I hope I did not misquote you, but it is something I thought I recalled you saying in a past post....also I have much respect for your postings here and the progress I've seen you make on the boards...
As for the ratios for perspective- a 1.5 to 2.0 clean is a bigtime lift, most peope will never even get close to that..
I do agree that there is no way to determine how much someone might clean based on their squat.... they might have some natural inclination to the lift (though it is by no means a natural movement)
Also, I think Christian is not 100% correct....
****
When I first started olympic lifting I could full squat 405lbs, clean 250lbs and snatch 175lbs. Increasing my squat to 485lbs improved my snatch to 253lbs and my clean to 319lbs, a combined gain of 147lbs.
When I increased my squat to 575lbs I increased my snatch to 291lbs and my clean to 352lbs (I did clean 374lbs from the hang though) for a relatively similar gain in squatting strength I only improved my total by 71lbs, half the gains as with my previous squat improvement. So even in one individual the ratio between the squat and clean/snatch will vary during his career.
****
going on to say...
****
Basically saying that when you lack strength, improving it will yiled great power gains. But if you already have sufficient brute strength, adding even more won't add much power.
****
I can find nothing that I disagree with in either of his statments-
BUT, Christian does show significant gains in his clean and snatch with improvement in the squat, AND though the correlation is not linear-
This may be due to the fact that there are other factors which will also have an effect on total transfer of one lift to the other.... explosiveness, technique, catch height (thanks CCJ) among hundreds of other factors, which would take years to analyze and equipment no one has the time or money to develop, not to mention that if your technique at 30% resembles your technique at 98%, I think you are a damned good technical lifter.
Either way, I don't think either position in its absolute form is completely correct... I feel making generalizations generally make you wrong....
and Sofa is right, it really doesn't matter what the correlation is or if there is one at all in the end, what matters is how hard you are working and what you are doing to get better...
By the way CoolColJ, I hope I did not misquote you, but it is something I thought I recalled you saying in a past post....also I have much respect for your postings here and the progress I've seen you make on the boards...
As for the ratios for perspective- a 1.5 to 2.0 clean is a bigtime lift, most peope will never even get close to that..
I do agree that there is no way to determine how much someone might clean based on their squat.... they might have some natural inclination to the lift (though it is by no means a natural movement)
Also, I think Christian is not 100% correct....
****
When I first started olympic lifting I could full squat 405lbs, clean 250lbs and snatch 175lbs. Increasing my squat to 485lbs improved my snatch to 253lbs and my clean to 319lbs, a combined gain of 147lbs.
When I increased my squat to 575lbs I increased my snatch to 291lbs and my clean to 352lbs (I did clean 374lbs from the hang though) for a relatively similar gain in squatting strength I only improved my total by 71lbs, half the gains as with my previous squat improvement. So even in one individual the ratio between the squat and clean/snatch will vary during his career.
****
going on to say...
****
Basically saying that when you lack strength, improving it will yiled great power gains. But if you already have sufficient brute strength, adding even more won't add much power.
****
I can find nothing that I disagree with in either of his statments-
BUT, Christian does show significant gains in his clean and snatch with improvement in the squat, AND though the correlation is not linear-
This may be due to the fact that there are other factors which will also have an effect on total transfer of one lift to the other.... explosiveness, technique, catch height (thanks CCJ) among hundreds of other factors, which would take years to analyze and equipment no one has the time or money to develop, not to mention that if your technique at 30% resembles your technique at 98%, I think you are a damned good technical lifter.
Either way, I don't think either position in its absolute form is completely correct... I feel making generalizations generally make you wrong....
and Sofa is right, it really doesn't matter what the correlation is or if there is one at all in the end, what matters is how hard you are working and what you are doing to get better...
ffknight84
New member
wow lotsa good information here, thx.
according to those ratios im average =(
215 bodyweight witha 225 clean
according to those ratios im average =(
215 bodyweight witha 225 clean
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