What To Use Instead Of Primo And Prolactin Question

[Bozwell]

I SEEM TO BE ABLE TO GET EVERYTHING BUT PRIMOBOLAN,ALL MY PCT AND THE ANAVAR I WANT BUT NO PRIMO AS THIS IS MY FIRST CYCLE I WANT TO KEEP SIDES TO A MINIMUM, I ALSO TAKE PAROXITINE HYDROCLORIDE FOR PANIC ATTACKS BUT ON THE LIST OF SIDE EFFECTS IT SAYS MAY CAUSE THE INCREASE OF THE PRODUCTION OF PROLACTIN AND RESULT IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF BREASTS AND THE PRODUCTION OF MILK IN MEN! I DONT SUFFER FROM THIS NOW BUT COULD IT BE SET OF BY AAS I WANT TO DO A CYCLE FOR LEAN MASS,STREANTH AND KEEP AS MUCH OF MY GAINS AS POSSABLE WITH LITTLE SIDES(SOUNDS A LOT )MY QUESTION IS THIS WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD ALTERNITIVE TO PRIMO TO GO WITH THE ANAVAR AND NOT CAUSE PROLACTIN PROBLEMS?
HOPE THIS MAKE SENSE AND SOME ONE ANSWERS THIS
SOME QUICK STATS
AGE-22
WEIGHT-12STONE
BF(EST)10% VERY LEAN
BENCH-80KG-10 REPS
TRAINING-4 YEARS REALY SERIOUSLY PAST 18MONTHS OR SO
DIET-LOTS OF MILK,TUNA,EGGS PASTA,AND SUNDAYS DINNERS 2-3 TIMES A WEEK WITH CREATINE EOD

 

[imortal]

Take no offence.

You say you been train ing real serious for 11/2 years!
Then in your stats you add bench press 80gk for 10 reps. Even though this is not a strong bench by any means , i am stating that you seem like you are inexperienced in the scene and are still in the "egotistical chest and biceps mentality."

Anyway if you gonna gear then so be it.
To answer the Q.

Drop the primo idea.

Week 1 -10 test cyp or sust 500mg
Week 1 - 4 Var 30 - 40 mg/day

Week 12 HCG 1500iu mon/thurs/sun
Week 12 - 15 Nolvadex 20mg/day

 

[Jenetic]

Before begining anything, have your blood work performed to establish baseline values. This will be important and highly beneficial for later comparisions. Also, it will give you an idea if prolactin is currently an issue.

Ideally, a combination of 500 mgs Testosterone per week, 6.25 mgs Aromasin EOD and .5 mg Finasteride ED for a total of 8 weeks should provide you optimal Anabolic/Androgenic effects while minimizing Estrogen and DHT related sides.

Aromasin will prevent estrogen associated side effects such as gynecomastia and water retention by deactivating the P450 Aromatase resposible for the aromatization of testosterone to estrogen. Also, Aromasin has minimal to zero impact on your lipid profile and IGF-1 levels when used for short durations. Arimidex would be your second option due to it's price but it should be known that it does surpress IGF-1 levels. Nolvadex should be your last option due to the fact that it can severely inhibits gains, especially on a test cycle. Nolvadex is best suited to treat a pre-exhisting case of gynecomastia. It has no impact on circulating Estrogen levels.

Finasteride prevents the metabolism of DHT via the 5AR. This will minimize DHT related side effects such as hair loss and acne. Also, it will keep the prostate healthy. A dosage of .5 mg ED should be sufficient without affecting libido and strength on a 500 mg Testosterone cycle.

PCT will begin one week after your last testosterone injection and will consist of 1000 IU's HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in conjunction with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for a total of 3 weeks followed by blood work to evaluate your recovery.

Jenetic

 

[Bozwell]

Take no offence.

You say you been train ing real serious for 11/2 years!
Then in your stats you add bench press 80gk for 10 reps. Even though this is not a strong bench by any means , i am stating that you seem like you are inexperienced in the scene and are still in the "egotistical chest and biceps mentality."

Anyway if you gonna gear then so be it.
To answer the Q.

Drop the primo idea.

Week 1 -10 test cyp or sust 500mg
Week 1 - 4 Var 30 - 40 mg/day

Week 12 HCG 1500iu mon/thurs/sun
Week 12 - 15 Nolvadex 20mg/day

CHEER FOR THE INFO BRO ,BUT WILL I NEED SOME AMIRIDEX WHILE USING SUST I HAVE HEARD THE SUST LEAVES A FUCKING BIG LUMP,IS THIS TRUE? .AND YES I NOW MY STATS ARNT TOP BUT I REALLY AM A HARD GAINER I SEEM TO GET MORE RIPPED BUT MY SIZE AND STRENTH ARE STICKING AND WHEN I SAY SERIOUS TRAINING I MEAN NO ALCOHOL (A LITTLE WEED)PROTINE GOOD FOOD 4 1 AND A HALF HOUR SESSIONS IN THE GYM BURSTING MY BALLS TO TRY AND GET STRONGER AND THE REST OF THE 4 YEARS I TRAINED AT HOME ON MY BENCH. IT COULD BE MY GENETICS COS MOST OF MY FAMILY ARE TALL AND SKINNY(I HATED BIENG SKINNY )WHATS SUST LIKE FORE KEEPING GAINS AFTER CYCLE
YOUR PCT SOUNDS TOP BUT IS THREE WEEKS LONG ENOUGH?
I KNOW MORE QUESTIONS BUT ONCE I GET STARTED ILL BE ABLE TO PUT UP SOME DECENT POSTS

 

[imortal]

Well well well. Genetic you seem to always have the time to splurge mini novels of explanatory info.

Im in agreeance with you on the arimidex point but if he still throws the Var into the mix , liver enzymes might become elevated.(if we are really minimizing sides here!)

I would however extend the pct another week as a longer acting test after a 10 week cycle will still be very active after a week and starting the HCG at this time may be counterproductive.

 

[Bozwell]

Before begining anything, have your blood work performed to establish baseline values. This will be important and highly beneficial for later comparisions. Also, it will give you an idea if prolactin is currently an issue.

Ideally, a combination of 500 mgs Testosterone per week, 6.25 mgs Aromasin EOD and .5 mg Finasteride ED for a total of 8 weeks should provide you optimal Anabolic/Androgenic effects while minimizing Estrogen and DHT related sides.

Aromasin will prevent estrogen associated side effects such as gynecomastia and water retention by deactivating the P450 Aromatase resposible for the aromatization of testosterone to estrogen. Also, Aromasin has minimal to zero impact on your lipid profile and IGF-1 levels when used for short durations. Arimidex would be your second option due to it's price but it should be known that it does surpress IGF-1 levels. Nolvadex should be your last option due to the fact that it can severely inhibits gains, especially on a test cycle. Nolvadex is best suited to treat a pre-exhisting case of gynecomastia. It has no impact on circulating Estrogen levels.

Finasteride prevents the metabolism of DHT via the 5AR. This will minimize DHT related side effects such as hair loss and acne. Also, it will keep the prostate healthy. A dosage of .5 mg ED should be sufficient without affecting libido and strength on a 500 mg Testosterone cycle.

PCT will begin one week after your last testosterone injection and will consist of 1000 IU's HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in conjunction with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for a total of 3 weeks followed by blood work to evaluate your recovery.

Jenetic

THATS SOME TOP INFO BUT HOW DO I GET MY BLOOD WORK DONE I LIVE IN THE UK ,DO I JUST GO TO MY DOCTORS AND TELL HIM WHAT IM GOING TO DO OR IS THERE SOME KIND OF SELF TEST THAT CAN BE DONE? ANY MORE INFO FOR A KNOWLAGE HUNGRY NEWBIE

 

[imortal]

You say is sust good for keeping gains?

Well that entirely depends on how effective your PCT therapy is and just as vital is your dietary habits once the cycle is coplete and your T levels are back to normality.(we hope)

This can be argued within a sphere but i believe the gains kept from various a/a steroids depend greatly on the speed at which the particular compound retains nitrogen and creates new muscle. Slower steady growth will always outride a compound that slaps water and muscle on in a mater of days. It also depends on the accurate measurement after a cycle so as to attain muscle vs water weight gain on ones frame.

Sustanon gains can be kept to a large degree(watch the opposers rise!) but as i stated , PCT and a very intence knowledge of onces macro nutrient intake once the cycle is over becomes vital.

 

[Jenetic]

Well well well. Genetic you seem to always have the time to splurge mini novels of explanatory info.

Im in agreeance with you on the arimidex point but if he still throws the Var into the mix , liver enzymes might become elevated.(if we are really minimizing sides here!)

I would however extend the pct another week as a longer acting test after a 10 week cycle will still be very active after a week and starting the HCG at this time may be counterproductive.

There is no point in running an additional AAS. During a first cycle, the whole point of running testosterone or another single AAS by itself is to evaluate how you respond to the substance and to understand if you truly maximized your nutrition, training and rest. This helps to maximize future cycles as well as to prevent unwanted/unnecessary side effects.

The PCT I previously posted is more than sufficient in regards to recovery. This isn't simply something I created out of thin air. It's based upon actual experience and numerous reports from users as well as practicing medical profesionals. If PCT were to be extended, Nolvadex only or a combination of Nolavdex and Clomid for 2 weeks are an alternative/option.

Here is a post in the PCT from DrJMW in regards to the goal of PCT related to the HPTA:

As athletes, we are most concerned with the "PT" part of the HPTA. "P" being the pituitary and "T" being the Testes. To review, our hormonal responses are based mainly on negative feedback. For example, supragenetic levels of Testosterone or any AAS will signal the pituitary to stop secreting LH and will signal the hypothalamus to stop secreting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GRH). So, during an AAS cycle, we experience low, natural Testos levels, a reduction in testuclar mass, low LH, and low GRH. The goal of PCT (recovery) is to get the HPTA back to normal.

The most important aspect of recovery is getting testicular mass back to normal as quickly as possible. There is only one drug that will do this and do it quickly--HCG. HCG imitates LH (which is suppressed). HCG acts independently of the HPTA suppression and independent of the meds from the AAS cycle. In this situation, the only side effect we need to worry about is the return of estrogen to normal levels (estrogen rebound). Since estrogen is already at very low levels (the athlete used an aromatase inhibitor during his AAS cycle), Nolvadex is sufficient to block the onrush. By the time the athlete is using nolvadex-only, his testes are up to their normal size. And the pituitary begins to release its own LH.

Jenetic

 

[imortal]

We are on a par here Genetic and are merely stating our preffered methods. (ie. uncompetitive)

My HCG point was that after only 1 weeks abstanence from a long acting test the exogenous test levels are still all that exist in the system so i would wiat until they deminish a little further before utilizing a LH mimicker in order to spark the leydig wake up call and thus natural test production.

This also leaves scope for conclusions regarding estrogen rebound as any rebound at this stage will be because of unfavourable test/estro levels. Estrogen caused by HCG is not vior this process but vior aromatise.

My case vs yours.
Both will yield the same PCT success.

 

[Bozwell]

There is no point in running an additional AAS. During a first cycle, the whole point of running testosterone or another single AAS by itself is to evaluate how you respond to the substance and to understand if you truly maximized your nutrition, training and rest. This helps to maximize future cycles as well as to prevent unwanted/unnecessary side effects.

The PCT I previously posted is more than sufficient in regards to recovery. This isn't simply something I created out of thin air. It's based upon actual experience and numerous reports from users as well as practicing medical profesionals. If PCT were to be extended, Nolvadex only or a combination of Nolavdex and Clomid for 2 weeks are an alternative/option.

Here is a post in the PCT from DrJMW in regards to the goal of PCT related to the HPTA:
So you only recomend using one steroid first time round well now youve put it like you have i think a lot of experements are to be done before i try stacking iv just been looking at some steroid profiles and eq seems to be a good place to start as its said to act like a mild test and like i said i cant get primo, what are youre thuoughts on this steroid(eq)and maybe a cycle plan or should i go with the sust.cheers


Jenetic

 

[imortal]

Sust 500mg ten weeks.

Simple effective.

Later

I.

 

[Jenetic]

All AAS have their place in modern cycling and/or usage. Your question as to either testosterone or equipoise can be argued in many ways. Personally, I would go with the testosterone. It's an excellent base in most cycles and the side effects can be controlled with readily available ancilliaries. Also, the results will be more profound compared to equipoise in general. Either one will work. The decision is up to you. Something like 500 mgs of testosterone EW or 400 mgs equipoise EW for a total of 8 weeks followed by PCT.

In regards to your question on the doctor situation, look for an experienced endocrinologist. If you need information on what exactly to test for, look for a post in the PCT forum by DrJMW entitled "Blood work."

Jenetic

 

[bw1]

There is no point in running an additional AAS. During a first cycle, the whole point of running testosterone or another single AAS by itself is to evaluate how you respond to the substance and to understand if you truly maximized your nutrition, training and rest. This helps to maximize future cycles as well as to prevent unwanted/unnecessary side effects.

Jenetic

Agree 100%!