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What is SHUT DOWN exactly?

JKurz1

JKurz1

Banned
OK, so in talking and reading, I'm really trying to become more intelligent on the aspect of AAS and the effect it has on sexual performance. Guess I really was a true idiot on the topic, as it hasn't happened to me...yet. So, here's my question(s)......if you run a test cycle, your body stops producing natty test. When you get off the cycle, will your body EVER recoup if PCT is never taken?

How does one actually know if they are shut down without bloodwork?

What are the effects of being shut down? Is it impossible to gain another pound of weight? Is strength never going to be the same?

FInally, if you thought you were shut down, and ran a perfect cycle of clomid, would you start back up again? Would it be better to run a small test cycle again and than the clomid? HUGE k to those who can answer these ?'s.....
 
JKurz1 said:
OK, so in talking and reading, I'm really trying to become more intelligent on the aspect of AAS and the effect it has on sexual performance. Guess I really was a true idiot on the topic, as it hasn't happened to me...yet. So, here's my question(s)......if you run a test cycle, your body stops producing natty test. When you get off the cycle, will your body EVER recoup if PCT is never taken?

How does one actually know if they are shut down without bloodwork?

What are the effects of being shut down? Is it impossible to gain another pound of weight? Is strength never going to be the same?

FInally, if you thought you were shut down, and ran a perfect cycle of clomid, would you start back up again? Would it be better to run a small test cycle again and than the clomid? HUGE k to those who can answer these ?'s.....
Click to expand...
You can recover without clomid, I'm only speaking from my first cycle. Which I ran dbol, omna, and 200mg of deca. All I did was take HCG for 3 weeks after and I recovered very well. I dont expect to gain anything after a cycle, there is a reason I'm using juice because naturally I maxed out on growth. Plus, dont expect to recover if you run deca. Like I said before, even with proper PCT it took months for my natural test levels to get back. Was about 60points a months.
 
thanks..anyone else answer my other questions? SO, what if you are shut down for awhile, etc....what to do............is there a way to combat as an afterthought?
 
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JKurz1 said:
thanks..anyone else answer my other questions? SO, what if you are shut down for awhile, etc....what to do............is there a way to combat as an afterthought?
Click to expand...
:verygood:
 
You also have to look at natures rule. "Use it or lose it" When you shut your htpa down either regularly or very hard for a long time you may become familier with the "Use it or lose it law" hence trt and hrt....Although everyone is different you may be able to recover faster or slower or never but by the time you find out which one you are it could be to late :)
 
Tryn2 said:
You also have to look at natures rule. "Use it or lose it" When you shut your htpa down either regularly or very hard for a long time you may become familier with the "Use it or lose it law" hence trt and hrt....Although everyone is different you may be able to recover faster or slower or never but by the time you find out which one you are it could be to late :)
Click to expand...
Let's say you catch it within a year.....and the user is younger in age.....what would you suggest?
 
Your body will recover, however, it wil take months, maybe even to the length of a year for your body to recoup it's natural test levels. PCT quickens the process by inhibiting the receptors to start producing natural test.

This is good, not only for producing testosterone so that you are sexually active, but also that you keep your gains in the gym aswell. Imagine hitting the bench at 350 on juice (300 previously without juice) and then not going thru PCT. You would literally fall down to 200 in you're lucky. Your test levels wouldn't be existant, thus you would be dead in the gym.
I've seen this happen to too many people.
 
AMGETR said:
Your body will recover, however, it wil take months, maybe even to the length of a year for your body to recoup it's natural test levels. PCT quickens the process by inhibiting the receptors to start producing natural test.

This is good, not only for producing testosterone so that you are sexually active, but also that you keep your gains in the gym aswell. Imagine hitting the bench at 350 on juice (300 previously without juice) and then not going thru PCT. You would literally fall down to 200 in you're lucky. Your test levels wouldn't be existant, thus you would be dead in the gym.
I've seen this happen to too many people.
Click to expand...

I knew there was a half-full approach to look at this. I'm finding way to many young college kids are clueless on this issue. So, what you reccomend to a college kid who did a test/deca cycle over a year ago....lose a ton of weight...feels like he is shut down? Hit another test cycle and follow it with clomid PROPERLY? I've heard using dbol may help? Not sure what to tell them once they ask..........
 
If he hit it a year ago, PCT would be absolutely useless in my opinion. Even if PCT went through properly, the test levels would slightly be elevated.

I would say to do another test cycle, and follow it with nolva throughout (if they are prone to gyno), then follow up with a PCT consisting of 3 weeks hcg (500i.u's ED) and 6 weeks of clomid 50mgED. And if you used the nolva throughout the cycle, use it till the end of wk 6 with the clomid.

If your levels are not back, repeat PCT a second time. However, pct should be fine once. Most people that have to repeat PCT are guys on huge long term cycles (17+ weeks).

I'm in college, but I know one thing for sure - I want to fuck. So I make sure that I have my PCT ahead of time so that I do no risk shutting down after I'm off the test. Too many kids just want to hit the juice, and not even think about "pct?". Awell.
 
Im not qualified to answer this to be honest. But I would try to get my htpa back up if it was me first. I would look into HCG therapy. If this is happening to you or a friend I would try to contact swale, or dr.j they would be more qualified to help you. I think jumping back on cycle could do more damage to what is already taken place.
 
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Everything I have learned to this date is from Dr. J on these forums. So he would be the most qualified to tell you what to do.

Check out the PCT forums here, they're real informative and your question might already be answered there!

Good luck bro!
 
There is also a thread about a guy who has been shutdown for 1.5 years. Have u checked that out ???
 
I just posted this on another thread yesterday.

If you cycle without PCT for long periods and particularly if you use Deca and then stop your body will run out of androgens and your natural test may not start up for 6-8 weeks.
During the 6-8 weeks you will feel like you have mono. You will be very weak to the point where you won't want to stand more than a few seconds without laying down. You will be unable to think clearly. If you have a job where you have to do anything but read Elite posts all day you won't be much use. Training, sex, any physical activity are nearly impossible. Depression sets in and you'll want to cry about how bad you feel most of the day.

You won't have to wonder if you're crashing. There is no mistaking it.

When it goes away you'll still have a hard time with sex for another month or two but that too will return to normal.
 
ok, so if your symptoms are lack of ejacualation volume and power (dribbles), erections don't come as often as usual, and severe lost of weight and strength......shut down? Other than that, not physical ailments.....no pain, etc...
 
JKurz1 said:
ok, so if your symptoms are lack of ejacualation volume and power (dribbles), erections don't come as often as usual, and severe lost of weight and strength......shut down? Other than that, not physical ailments.....no pain, etc...
Click to expand...


Could be? Are your testicles shruken at all?
 
JKurz1 said:
ok, so if your symptoms are lack of ejacualation volume and power (dribbles), erections don't come as often as usual, and severe lost of weight and strength......shut down? Other than that, not physical ailments.....no pain, etc...
Click to expand...


Looks like you've shut down. How long has it been since you have been off?
 
It's a very individual thing. I've actually only done PCT once and that was just a half-hearted attempt at using HCG in my college years. I'm one of the few that has no problems maintaining size after cycles. I recently finished a 12 week Deca only cycle and I will be doing PCT in 2 weeks.
 
Tryn2 said:
It could prevent it, Y dont you get some blood work done ?? You have insurance ?
Click to expand...
as a last resort, yes.......what could prevent it? Nothing to take to try and rectify?
 
JKurz1 said:
as a last resort, yes.......what could prevent it? Nothing to take to try and rectify?
Click to expand...

why guess - just get some bloodwork - it SHOULD NOT be a last resort - it should be the first thing you do - its the only real way to tell whats going on. after that, you can get very pointed suggestions as to what you should do. go for bloodwork today - get your results by the end of the week. just do it.
 
I'd say if someone cant recover fast after using a certain steroid, they should avoid it. LIke I'm avoiding DECA.
 
terrapin said:
why guess - just get some bloodwork - it SHOULD NOT be a last resort - it should be the first thing you do - its the only real way to tell whats going on. after that, you can get very pointed suggestions as to what you should do. go for bloodwork today - get your results by the end of the week. just do it.
Click to expand...


Whelp...it's isn't that easy...must have a script..........Just called the MD and have an appt Friday........that's the earliest........what type of test do I ask for?
 
JKurz1 said:
Whelp...it's isn't that easy...must have a script..........Just called the MD and have an appt Friday........that's the earliest........what type of test do I ask for?
Click to expand...

Right path to take bro. Here is a list from DrJMW's post on the PCT board:

HORMONE

1. Cortisol, Total
2. Estradiol, Extraction
3. Prolactin
4. LH
5. FSH
6. T3, Free
7. T4, Free
8. TSH
9. Testosterone, Total, Free and Weakly Bound
10. Hemoglobin A1C
11. Fasting Insulin


CARDIOVASCULAR

12. CBC
13. Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
14. Lipid Panel

OTHER

15. GGT Important Liver Value not included in Comp Metabolic Panel

Good luck and if possible post your values for suggestions. Peace
 
JKurz1 said:
ok, so if your symptoms are lack of ejacualation volume and power (dribbles), erections don't come as often as usual, and severe lost of weight and strength......shut down? Other than that, not physical ailments.....no pain, etc...
Click to expand...

NO. THAT'S NOT SHUT DOWN!!!! If you went a year shut down you'd be in therapy.
If you don't "feel" any different and those are your only symptoms then you've only got lowered test levels. That is not shut down. And that can happen to anyone cycling or not. You'd probably do just fine by taking arimidex every day.
 
ulter said:
NO. THAT'S NOT SHUT DOWN!!!! If you went a year shut down you'd be in therapy.
If you don't "feel" any different and those are your only symptoms then you've only got lowered test levels. That is not shut down. And that can happen to anyone cycling or not. You'd probably do just fine by taking arimidex every day.
Click to expand...
How are you so sure? I mean, I like the answer, but how can you be sure when everyone else says blood work? What would I be feeling if I was shu down?
 
One final note, if it ok if I say that I used a legal prohormone about a year ago and am realizing that I have many of the sympotoms of test repression? It's not that I don't trust my doc, it's just that he is also a guy that I see quite often.......just don't want to go THERE unless I have to......M1-IT or something.....
 
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Allow me to clarify a few points for you:

my question(s)......if you run a test cycle, your body stops producing natty test. When you get off the cycle, will your body EVER recoup if PCT is never taken?

Yes. Though it make take some time for your HPTA to recover. There are however, reported cases of people who never recovered with very low testosterone readings, though some have have a pre existing condition as well. From personal experience back some time ago, PCT was done with blood tests done 2 months after PCT still revealed very low test readings (about 300). That was WITH PCT. But a very bad PCT due btw to mal advice from people. As a minimum I would suggest the following blood tests: total test, free test, LH, all can be done in a private lab for a low price without any prescription. A sperm count is something that more AAS users should make as it has a major effect on sperm production.

How does one actually know if they are shut down without bloodwork?

Thanks for asking this great question. Popular belief is that recovery, can be easily self diagnosed when one feels: His testicals are not shrunken + he has morning erections. This is NOT true! Although correlated these are very poor indicators which can quite deceiving. Blood work, blood work.

What are the effects of being shut down? Is it impossible to gain another pound of weight? Is strength never going to be the same?

Depression
Lake of motivation for daily chores or working out
Fatigue
Difficulty getting and maintaining an errection
Low sperm count to none.
Difficulty maintaining or gaining mass (dah..)
etc...

Finally, if you thought you were shut down, and ran a perfect cycle of clomid, would you start back up again? Would it be better to run a small test cycle again and than the clomid? HUGE k to those who can answer these ?'s.....

I wouldn't be running test cycle if I was supressed (actually I would, but do as I say, don't do as I do ;). Now seriously, if you're really supressed (shutdown is not the right word!) and a long time have passed since your last androgen usage. you probably would be better of with a plan like this:
WEEK1-3 1500iu-5000iu MON/WED/FRI
Yes, some endocrinologists under their supervision administer 15000 IU a week in severe cases of long-term supression with great results.
WEEK1-8(sometimes 12 weeks) of Clomid at 50mg a day
Again, this plan is aimed at severely supressed individuals and preferably under the guidance of an endocrinologist.


Hope this helps... :supercool

JUNK
 
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Great shit brother.....I remember back in school, dudes used to run hazardous drol, test, deca cycles without a thought for pct.......had no idea what it was.....so, I think everyone EVENTUALLY recovers. However, they shrunk like a school boy in a cold pool as soon as they were done......when my MD asked if there was a reason I had lost 33 lbs since 9.11.01, I wanted to first, puke, and second, wonder if something might be really wrong. I'm eating every 2-2.5 hours like a mad man (or so I feel) yet the scale doesnt move......concerns me. My strength is down big, but it's hasnt kept decreasing. Let's just say, I looked good at the 2 pool parties I busted my ass for, now I'm payin the price......it's the fear of "abless" syndrome....Jkurz's "ab-less" snydrome....I like the sound of that...."JABS" - hahahah,...new accroynym....
 
I agree with Dial Tone 100%. I think it’s a very individual thing. I know many power lifters who never do PCT. Well a lot of them never come off for long either but they never complain about being shut down and feeling shitty when they do come off.

I have taken high dosages of gear for 3-4 months many times and my sex drive never really slows down at all when I come off. My nuts shrink to the size of marbles but I still want to have sex all day long. When I am off I really don’t notice anything but a little strength loss but nothing major. I read these horror stories on elite and never thought it was that common for people to feel so shitty when they come off.

I do notice when I go back on test after being off for a long period of time I would have sex with just about anything that moves. lol
 
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