Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below rockabilly
New member
I went back a ways and saw a post by VAP1993. Said to mix 1g natural test with 333 drops of DMSO and use 1 drop on inner wrist every morning..I've never seen "natural test" on any price lists.
what is "natural test"?
- Thread starter rockabilly
- Start date
Natural test most likely refers to "bioidentical testosterone". This simply means that the Testosterone was derived from a plant source-usually soy. Synthetic testosterone is most always accompanied by an "ester" group and most always come in the form of injectibles ie cyponate, propiniate ect. Oral based T suppliments are going to be synthetic too ie Proviron (synthetic "DHT") and Andriol(test deconate) Other members feel free to step in and clarify or correct this
rockabilly
New member
Anybody have any sources for this "natural product"?
lanky
Well-known member
i think what you are refering to "bioidentical testosterone" is just testosterone without any ester or ring modification...therefore instead of saying "bioidentical testosterone" you are just refering to testosterone
btw..has nothing to do with derived from a plant source.
i wish people would stop using the term "bioidentical testosterone"
androgel and testim are prescription transdermal testosterone
btw..has nothing to do with derived from a plant source.
i wish people would stop using the term "bioidentical testosterone"
androgel and testim are prescription transdermal testosterone
rockabilly
New member
Is this still offered as a product out there?
Nemisis RR
New member
rockabilly said:
androgel and testim are prescription transdermal testosterone
Yams and soybeans help catch cheats
Genetic markers help distinguish natural testosterone from the synthetic version.
Star News Services
SAN JOSE, Calif. | - The world of sport is spinning this week — all because of yams and soybeans.
It turns out that the drug at the center of the controversies surrounding cyclist Floyd Landis and sprinter Justin Gatlin has a genetic marker that helps testers distinguish it from naturally produced testosterone.
Although virtually unknown outside scientific circles, the breakthrough in identifying synthetic testosterone — made from extracts of yams and soybeans — is one more example of how drug testers are using advances in technology to close in on cheats.
“It’s huge,” Don Catlin, chief of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory, said Tuesday. Though the method has been used since 2001, “It is coming of age in the matter of Landis and Gatlin.”
That is evident in the case of Landis, this year’s Tour de France champion, who says he naturally produces a high level of the male sex hormone.
According to newspaper reports, the French national anti-doping laboratory found artificial testosterone in a urine sample Landis provided July 20, after his decisive victory in stage 17 of the Tour. The scientists performed this costly procedure, known as isotope ratio mass spectrometry (No. 3 in the chart), to measure the number of carbon molecules in testosterone.
The test can identify artificial testosterone because plants produce a steroid precursor with fewer carbon molecules than human testosterone.
“They use this very exotic and specific test, and it doesn’t tell any lies,” said John Brennan, group director of clinical development at Solvay Pharmaceuticals, which manufacturers a testosterone gel.
The use of this procedure is but one indication testers have become more sophisticated since the Balco Laboratories scandal began to unfold in 2003.
Here is a good read from the Ladiscase
Testosterone
Testosterone is a natural steroid produced in the human body. It is produced in both men and women, although men produce it in much greater quantities. Higher levels of testosterone in the body are linked to increased muscle mass, and increased aggressiveness.
Synthetic testosterone can be injected for medical reasons, which is generally for hormone replacement for men who don't naturally produce enough. Synthetic testosterone can also be injected by athletes to increase muscle mass.
Synthetic testosterone is chemically identical to natural testosterone. However, synthetic testosterone tends to have less carbon-13 than natural testosterone, because it is produce from soy.
Pure testosterone in the system has a half-life of between 10 to 30 minutes. Pure (synthetic) testosterone is available orally or in patch form, and it is believed that these are the forms used by athletes who are abusing the substance to enhance performance.
Testosterone injections used for hormone replacement are synthetic testosterone which has been bound to another compound [additional info needed], which allows it to stay in the body for a week or more, and metabolise very slowly.
Here is a good read from Hudson's FTM guide of all places
What are "natural" versus "synthetic" hormones?
When reading the latest buzzwords about hormone therapy, the use of the terms "natural" and "synthetic" can be very confusing. This is because the word "bioidentical" is often equated to "natural," while being contrasted with "synthetic" and "man-made." These generalizations can be a bit misleading; we'll examine them more closely in order to better understand the differences between different testosterone treatments.
First, the term "natural" is often used to mean something that is found in nature, or something that is not man-made. In the case of testosterone, the "natural" form of the hormone is produced in the glands of the body; its chemical structure is shown above in Figure 1.
Next, let's recall that "bioidentical" testosterone is defined as having the exact same chemical structure as the "natural" testosterone that is created by the body. In this sense, "bioidentical" testosterone matches "natural" testosterone on the molecular level.
If there is any chemical modification to the testosterone molecule (such as adding a side chain or functional group), it no longer fits under the definition of "bioidentical." This is what is often referred to as a "synthetic" hormone-- a substance that has been modified in chemical structure from the hormone as it would occur naturally. An example of a "synthetic" hormone would be methyltestosterone (Figure 2, below), which is the testosterone hormone with an added methyl group (CH3) at the c-17 alpha position of the molecule (modified area shown within the red circle).
As illustrated in the case of methyltestosterone, the word "synthetic" is used to indicate a form of a hormone created in a laboratory that is not naturally made by the body.
It is important to note at this point that all forms of prescription testosterone-- whether they are "bioidentical" or "synthetic"-- are created in laboratories using chemical means. The vast majority of prescription testosterone (cream, gel, injectable, patch, subcutaneous, etc.) is derived from plant sources such as soybeans and yams. Soybeans and yams are natural substances that are put through a chemical synthesis in a laboratory setting to derive the end product of testosterone. Both bioidentical and non-bioidentical testosterone drugs are synthesized in this manner.
In summary, all testosterone drug preparations are man-made, typically from plant-based sources. "Bioidentical" testosterone exactly matches the chemical structure of "natural" testosterone, but is made in a laboratory just like other non-bioidentical forms of testosterone. The word "synthetic" is used to refer to non-bioidentical forms of testosterone.
Why would a drug company want to modify testosterone in the first place?
There are two main reasons why a drug company might want to modify a naturally-occuring substance such as testosterone. The first is functionality (i.e. so that the substance is able to be used successfully by the body), and the second is patentability and profit. In the specific case of testosterone, most of the modifications that we see are done for the sake of functionality, which is explained further below. Patentability and profit is also briefly addressed at the end of this section......
.........Which types of testosterone are bioidentical?
It is important to understand that in the United States, testosterone is considered a Schedule III controlled substance, and is not available without a prescription from a doctor. Therefore, if you see internet advertisements for "testosterone" creams, pills, or gels that do not require a prescription, understand that those products do not contain testosterone. Additionally, the buyer should beware of nutritional supplements, or so-called "pro-hormones" and "hormone pre-cursors" that promise to increase testosterone levels. Such products do not contain testosterone, they do not work in the same manner as prescribed testosterone, and they are not tested for safety and effectiveness by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
Once you have been approved by your doctor for testosterone therapy, there are a variety of options for how your doctor can write a prescription. The most common method of testosterone therapy for FTMs is intramuscular injection with a syringe. Other delivery methods include transdermal systems via a gel, cream, or patch applied to the skin; orally by swallowing tablets or capsules (this method is uncommon as it has been shown to have negative effects on the liver); sublingually/buccally by dissolving a tablet under the tongue or against the gums; or by a pellet inserted under the skin. (For more information on the variety of prescription testosterone medications, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page.)
Transdermal (i.e., medication is absorbed through the skin)
In general, most transdermal forms of prescription testosterone (such as gels, creams, and patches) contain bioidentical testosterone. Because bioidentical testosterone becomes active quickly once absorbed through the skin, it must be applied daily to maintain appropriate levels of testosterone in the body. Depending on the formulation, transdermal preparations might also include additional ingredients to accelerate the absorption of the testosterone through the skin. Some of these ingredients can cause side effects, such as rashes and skin irritation. Transdermal testosterone is available in both brand-name and compounded preparations; a prescription for compounded transdermal testosterone can be tailored by your doctor for your specific dosage requirements. (For more information on transdermal testosterone systems, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page. For more information on compounding, see the Compounding Pharmacies page.)
Sublingual/buccal
Sublingual and buccal testosterone treatments, which are dissolved in the mouth rather than swallowed, are generally made with bioidentical testosterone. Sublingual preparations are dissolved under the tongue; these can be prepared by compounding pharmacies. Buccal testosterone delivery works placing a tablet against the surface of the gums. Buccal testosterone systems are available as name-brand or compounded preparations. Sublingual/buccal delivery is different from oral delivery in that very little of the substance is swallowed, avoiding potential "first pass effect" problems with the liver. Because bioidentical testosterone is absorbed quickly through sublingual/buccal routes, it must be applied more than once a day to maintain appropriate levels of testosterone in the body. (For more information on sublingual and buccal testosterone systems, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page. For more information on compounding, see the Compounding Pharmacies page.)
Subcutaneous pellet
Subcutaneous testosterone pellets are made of bioidentical, crystalline testosterone that is implanted beneath the skin. The pellets are about the size of a grain of rice, and are typically placed in the buttocks or abdomen by a doctor. Because of their crystalline form, the testosterone in subcutaneous pellets is released slowly over a period of weeks or months. (For more information on subcutaneous testosterone systems, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page. For more information on compounding, see the Compounding Pharmacies page.)
Injectables
As mentioned previously on this page, injectable testosterone is prepared mainly in the form of testosterone esters such as testosterone cypionate or testosterone enanthate. (For a more detailed description of testosterone esters, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page.) Because a testosterone ester is a modified form of the testosterone molecule, it should not technically be considered a bioidentical form of testosterone. However, when testosterone esters are released into the bloodstream, the ester group is cleaved off by "esterase enzymes" in a process known as "hydrolization." Once the ester group has been removed by these enzymes, the testosterone is returned to its free, bioidentical form, thus making it bioavailable and ready to perform its various actions and effects. (For more information on injectable testosterone systems, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page. For more information on compounding, see the Compounding Pharmacies page.)
Oral
Bioidentical testosterone is never taken orally since it will be immediately deactivated by the liver due to the "first pass effect." Two non-bioidentical forms of testosterone have been used in testosterone therapy: methyltestosterone and testosterone undecanoate.
As mentioned above, methyltestosterone is one of the earliest available oral testosterones. Its chemical structure is the hormone testosterone with an added methyl group at the c-17 alpha position of the molecule. The use of oral c-17 alpha methylated testosterone is not recommended due to its toxicity to the liver.
Testosterone undecanoate is not a c-17 alpha methylated hormone, it is a testosterone ester. Because it is designed to be absorbed through the small intestine into the lymphatic system (thus circumventing the "first pass" through the liver), it poses less burden on the liver than methyltestosterone. Therefore, it is considered a safer oral form of testosterone. Oral testosterone undecanoate is not available in the United States. (For more information on oral testosterone systems, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page. For more information on compounding, see the Compounding Pharmacies page.)
If you are unsure if the prescription testosterone you are using is bioidentical, check the prescription information sheet to read both the chemical formula and chemical structure. This information should be provided to you with the medication
.
Genetic markers help distinguish natural testosterone from the synthetic version.
Star News Services
SAN JOSE, Calif. | - The world of sport is spinning this week — all because of yams and soybeans.
It turns out that the drug at the center of the controversies surrounding cyclist Floyd Landis and sprinter Justin Gatlin has a genetic marker that helps testers distinguish it from naturally produced testosterone.
Although virtually unknown outside scientific circles, the breakthrough in identifying synthetic testosterone — made from extracts of yams and soybeans — is one more example of how drug testers are using advances in technology to close in on cheats.
“It’s huge,” Don Catlin, chief of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory, said Tuesday. Though the method has been used since 2001, “It is coming of age in the matter of Landis and Gatlin.”
That is evident in the case of Landis, this year’s Tour de France champion, who says he naturally produces a high level of the male sex hormone.
According to newspaper reports, the French national anti-doping laboratory found artificial testosterone in a urine sample Landis provided July 20, after his decisive victory in stage 17 of the Tour. The scientists performed this costly procedure, known as isotope ratio mass spectrometry (No. 3 in the chart), to measure the number of carbon molecules in testosterone.
The test can identify artificial testosterone because plants produce a steroid precursor with fewer carbon molecules than human testosterone.
“They use this very exotic and specific test, and it doesn’t tell any lies,” said John Brennan, group director of clinical development at Solvay Pharmaceuticals, which manufacturers a testosterone gel.
The use of this procedure is but one indication testers have become more sophisticated since the Balco Laboratories scandal began to unfold in 2003.
Here is a good read from the Ladiscase
Testosterone
Testosterone is a natural steroid produced in the human body. It is produced in both men and women, although men produce it in much greater quantities. Higher levels of testosterone in the body are linked to increased muscle mass, and increased aggressiveness.
Synthetic testosterone can be injected for medical reasons, which is generally for hormone replacement for men who don't naturally produce enough. Synthetic testosterone can also be injected by athletes to increase muscle mass.
Synthetic testosterone is chemically identical to natural testosterone. However, synthetic testosterone tends to have less carbon-13 than natural testosterone, because it is produce from soy.
Pure testosterone in the system has a half-life of between 10 to 30 minutes. Pure (synthetic) testosterone is available orally or in patch form, and it is believed that these are the forms used by athletes who are abusing the substance to enhance performance.
Testosterone injections used for hormone replacement are synthetic testosterone which has been bound to another compound [additional info needed], which allows it to stay in the body for a week or more, and metabolise very slowly.
Here is a good read from Hudson's FTM guide of all places
What are "natural" versus "synthetic" hormones?
When reading the latest buzzwords about hormone therapy, the use of the terms "natural" and "synthetic" can be very confusing. This is because the word "bioidentical" is often equated to "natural," while being contrasted with "synthetic" and "man-made." These generalizations can be a bit misleading; we'll examine them more closely in order to better understand the differences between different testosterone treatments.
First, the term "natural" is often used to mean something that is found in nature, or something that is not man-made. In the case of testosterone, the "natural" form of the hormone is produced in the glands of the body; its chemical structure is shown above in Figure 1.
Next, let's recall that "bioidentical" testosterone is defined as having the exact same chemical structure as the "natural" testosterone that is created by the body. In this sense, "bioidentical" testosterone matches "natural" testosterone on the molecular level.
If there is any chemical modification to the testosterone molecule (such as adding a side chain or functional group), it no longer fits under the definition of "bioidentical." This is what is often referred to as a "synthetic" hormone-- a substance that has been modified in chemical structure from the hormone as it would occur naturally. An example of a "synthetic" hormone would be methyltestosterone (Figure 2, below), which is the testosterone hormone with an added methyl group (CH3) at the c-17 alpha position of the molecule (modified area shown within the red circle).
As illustrated in the case of methyltestosterone, the word "synthetic" is used to indicate a form of a hormone created in a laboratory that is not naturally made by the body.
It is important to note at this point that all forms of prescription testosterone-- whether they are "bioidentical" or "synthetic"-- are created in laboratories using chemical means. The vast majority of prescription testosterone (cream, gel, injectable, patch, subcutaneous, etc.) is derived from plant sources such as soybeans and yams. Soybeans and yams are natural substances that are put through a chemical synthesis in a laboratory setting to derive the end product of testosterone. Both bioidentical and non-bioidentical testosterone drugs are synthesized in this manner.
In summary, all testosterone drug preparations are man-made, typically from plant-based sources. "Bioidentical" testosterone exactly matches the chemical structure of "natural" testosterone, but is made in a laboratory just like other non-bioidentical forms of testosterone. The word "synthetic" is used to refer to non-bioidentical forms of testosterone.
Why would a drug company want to modify testosterone in the first place?
There are two main reasons why a drug company might want to modify a naturally-occuring substance such as testosterone. The first is functionality (i.e. so that the substance is able to be used successfully by the body), and the second is patentability and profit. In the specific case of testosterone, most of the modifications that we see are done for the sake of functionality, which is explained further below. Patentability and profit is also briefly addressed at the end of this section......
.........Which types of testosterone are bioidentical?
It is important to understand that in the United States, testosterone is considered a Schedule III controlled substance, and is not available without a prescription from a doctor. Therefore, if you see internet advertisements for "testosterone" creams, pills, or gels that do not require a prescription, understand that those products do not contain testosterone. Additionally, the buyer should beware of nutritional supplements, or so-called "pro-hormones" and "hormone pre-cursors" that promise to increase testosterone levels. Such products do not contain testosterone, they do not work in the same manner as prescribed testosterone, and they are not tested for safety and effectiveness by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
Once you have been approved by your doctor for testosterone therapy, there are a variety of options for how your doctor can write a prescription. The most common method of testosterone therapy for FTMs is intramuscular injection with a syringe. Other delivery methods include transdermal systems via a gel, cream, or patch applied to the skin; orally by swallowing tablets or capsules (this method is uncommon as it has been shown to have negative effects on the liver); sublingually/buccally by dissolving a tablet under the tongue or against the gums; or by a pellet inserted under the skin. (For more information on the variety of prescription testosterone medications, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page.)
Transdermal (i.e., medication is absorbed through the skin)
In general, most transdermal forms of prescription testosterone (such as gels, creams, and patches) contain bioidentical testosterone. Because bioidentical testosterone becomes active quickly once absorbed through the skin, it must be applied daily to maintain appropriate levels of testosterone in the body. Depending on the formulation, transdermal preparations might also include additional ingredients to accelerate the absorption of the testosterone through the skin. Some of these ingredients can cause side effects, such as rashes and skin irritation. Transdermal testosterone is available in both brand-name and compounded preparations; a prescription for compounded transdermal testosterone can be tailored by your doctor for your specific dosage requirements. (For more information on transdermal testosterone systems, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page. For more information on compounding, see the Compounding Pharmacies page.)
Sublingual/buccal
Sublingual and buccal testosterone treatments, which are dissolved in the mouth rather than swallowed, are generally made with bioidentical testosterone. Sublingual preparations are dissolved under the tongue; these can be prepared by compounding pharmacies. Buccal testosterone delivery works placing a tablet against the surface of the gums. Buccal testosterone systems are available as name-brand or compounded preparations. Sublingual/buccal delivery is different from oral delivery in that very little of the substance is swallowed, avoiding potential "first pass effect" problems with the liver. Because bioidentical testosterone is absorbed quickly through sublingual/buccal routes, it must be applied more than once a day to maintain appropriate levels of testosterone in the body. (For more information on sublingual and buccal testosterone systems, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page. For more information on compounding, see the Compounding Pharmacies page.)
Subcutaneous pellet
Subcutaneous testosterone pellets are made of bioidentical, crystalline testosterone that is implanted beneath the skin. The pellets are about the size of a grain of rice, and are typically placed in the buttocks or abdomen by a doctor. Because of their crystalline form, the testosterone in subcutaneous pellets is released slowly over a period of weeks or months. (For more information on subcutaneous testosterone systems, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page. For more information on compounding, see the Compounding Pharmacies page.)
Injectables
As mentioned previously on this page, injectable testosterone is prepared mainly in the form of testosterone esters such as testosterone cypionate or testosterone enanthate. (For a more detailed description of testosterone esters, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page.) Because a testosterone ester is a modified form of the testosterone molecule, it should not technically be considered a bioidentical form of testosterone. However, when testosterone esters are released into the bloodstream, the ester group is cleaved off by "esterase enzymes" in a process known as "hydrolization." Once the ester group has been removed by these enzymes, the testosterone is returned to its free, bioidentical form, thus making it bioavailable and ready to perform its various actions and effects. (For more information on injectable testosterone systems, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page. For more information on compounding, see the Compounding Pharmacies page.)
Oral
Bioidentical testosterone is never taken orally since it will be immediately deactivated by the liver due to the "first pass effect." Two non-bioidentical forms of testosterone have been used in testosterone therapy: methyltestosterone and testosterone undecanoate.
As mentioned above, methyltestosterone is one of the earliest available oral testosterones. Its chemical structure is the hormone testosterone with an added methyl group at the c-17 alpha position of the molecule. The use of oral c-17 alpha methylated testosterone is not recommended due to its toxicity to the liver.
Testosterone undecanoate is not a c-17 alpha methylated hormone, it is a testosterone ester. Because it is designed to be absorbed through the small intestine into the lymphatic system (thus circumventing the "first pass" through the liver), it poses less burden on the liver than methyltestosterone. Therefore, it is considered a safer oral form of testosterone. Oral testosterone undecanoate is not available in the United States. (For more information on oral testosterone systems, see the Testosterone Types and Delivery page. For more information on compounding, see the Compounding Pharmacies page.)
If you are unsure if the prescription testosterone you are using is bioidentical, check the prescription information sheet to read both the chemical formula and chemical structure. This information should be provided to you with the medication
.
lanky
Well-known member
very good read.
it is noted that many steroids started out as some kind of plant based steroid found in yams, soybeans, and other plants with spirostan steroids. the goal of the chem companies is to find the cheapest intermediate that does not need expensive reactions to turn into their goal product(testosterone)
as with the carbon-13 issue,,that is a huge advantage for WADA, if in fact the test shows high accuracy and becomes used alongside every blood/urine test.
good post
karma to you
it is noted that many steroids started out as some kind of plant based steroid found in yams, soybeans, and other plants with spirostan steroids. the goal of the chem companies is to find the cheapest intermediate that does not need expensive reactions to turn into their goal product(testosterone)
as with the carbon-13 issue,,that is a huge advantage for WADA, if in fact the test shows high accuracy and becomes used alongside every blood/urine test.
good post
karma to you
My compounded topical is bio-identical and derived from yams. It packs a punch too, so no laughing.
Soy? I don't think so. Isn't that an estrogen booster?
Soy? I don't think so. Isn't that an estrogen booster?
JetCityDude
New member
I think that consuming soy can increase estrogen, but T can be chemically derived from soy.thelion2005 said:
rockabilly
New member
Lion, is there a brand name for your topical ? besides androgel,androderm,etc. Is it a special mix somebody makes?
Soy is not an E2 booster and it is used in making T
Soy is often used in the process of making Testosterone as well as Estrogen in addition to the yams.
Soy is NOT an estrogen booster. Here is a good explination of what is going on
The chemical structure of [Soy is loaded with them] isoflavones is very similar to that of our own estrogen. Because of this similarity in structure, they can interfere with the action of our own estrogen. Depending on the type of estrogen receptor on the cells, isoflavones may reduce or activate the activity of estrogen. Isoflavones can compete with estrogen for the same receptor sites thereby decreasing the health risks of excess estrogen. They can also increase the estrogen activity. If during menopause the body's natural level of estrogen drops, isoflavones can compensate this by binding to the same receptor, thereby easing menopause symptoms as a result.
During this process, the overall amount of estrogen is NOT increased.
thelion2005 said:
Soy is often used in the process of making Testosterone as well as Estrogen in addition to the yams.
Soy is NOT an estrogen booster. Here is a good explination of what is going on
The chemical structure of [Soy is loaded with them] isoflavones is very similar to that of our own estrogen. Because of this similarity in structure, they can interfere with the action of our own estrogen. Depending on the type of estrogen receptor on the cells, isoflavones may reduce or activate the activity of estrogen. Isoflavones can compete with estrogen for the same receptor sites thereby decreasing the health risks of excess estrogen. They can also increase the estrogen activity. If during menopause the body's natural level of estrogen drops, isoflavones can compensate this by binding to the same receptor, thereby easing menopause symptoms as a result.
During this process, the overall amount of estrogen is NOT increased.
Last edited:
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