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What is Happening to our Country??

VeteranNewbie88

New member
Just got done watching the news and I have to rant before I explode...I apologize, this is gonna be a babbling mess, but Im too irritated to care so brace yourself...There is a veritable vendetta against steroids as of late....it burns me to no end to be watching the news or reading the paper and just finish finding out how the FBI is declaring our borders insecure, detailing the complete possible reality of a dirty bomb being smuggled into the country, how every single day there are more American/Allied deaths from suicide bombers, how Al Quaeda is now thinking of targeting schools and malls; how AIDS is killing more people than ever, how George Bush is decreasing financial aid resources for the elderly and lowering the quality of healthcare in the US, how cigarettes ultimately kill more people than you can imagine but any 14 year old can smoke one on the steps of the local police dept and its okay, how the FCC, Bush and the religious rite can fine Howard Stern MILLIONS of dollars for airing Fart jokes on the airwaves,.......Fox blurs out a 1 second glimpse of a CARTOON ass on The Family Guy because its deemed obscene and who knows what terrible irreversible damage it could cause the mind of a child, and to top it all off....Bush has allocated 10 million dollars and countless man hours to fight the trafficing and use of "the all powerful, evil king killer of our generation" - Steroids....the priorities of our government disgusts me more and more....
 
VeteranNewbie88 said:
Just got done watching the news and I have to rant before I explode...I apologize, this is gonna be a babbling mess, but Im too irritated to care so brace yourself...There is a veritable vendetta against steroids as of late....it burns me to no end to be watching the news or reading the paper and just finish finding out how the FBI is declaring our borders insecure, detailing the complete possible reality of a dirty bomb being smuggled into the country, how every single day there are more American/Allied deaths from suicide bombers, how Al Quaeda is now thinking of targeting schools and malls; how AIDS is killing more people than ever, how George Bush is decreasing financial aid resources for the elderly and lowering the quality of healthcare in the US, how cigarettes ultimately kill more people than you can imagine but any 14 year old can smoke one on the steps of the local police dept and its okay, how the FCC, Bush and the religious rite can fine Howard Stern MILLIONS of dollars for airing Fart jokes on the airwaves,.......Fox blurs out a 1 second glimpse of a CARTOON ass on The Family Guy because its deemed obscene and who knows what terrible irreversible damage it could cause the mind of a child, and to top it all off....Bush has allocated 10 million dollars and countless man hours to fight the trafficing and use of "the all powerful, evil king killer of our generation" - Steroids....the priorities of our government disgusts me more and more....

I would rant too, but I'm too lazy to write a few sentences so I'm just gonna quote what you said.
 
yeah its a pretty good rant

where I'm at the local gov't is currently busy passing a law stating people turning 21 can't drink until 8am, trying to abolish the "powerhour"

cause I guess theres nothing better to do on capitol hill
 
I think it's a diversion. Creating a furor over steroids, then holding hearing on steroids, then filling the news magazines with stories on steroids, is brilliant from an administration standpoint. People don't know anything about them so you can tell them whatever you want and they'll believe it. After the airing of the ESPN segment with the idiot who reused his needle and never went to a doctor when he got an abcess that led to gangrene and finally amputation, I hear many people in the gym talking about how steroids can you to lose your limbs. ESPN got this guy because he testified before a senate commitee looking into steroid use. Otherwise they'd have never heard of him.
Congressmen giving sound bytes like, "these athletes are going to have their organs fall out and then who is supposed to take care of them". It's a concerted effort.
If all this is going on there is less "airtime" for real news issues that this administration wants to avoid. Don't talk about the cuts in our food stamps, farm subsidies, school lunches for the poor and HUD so we can afford to pay for new houses, food, and farm subsidies in Iraq. Let's talk about "the steroid" problem gripping our nation.
 
Also, why the FUCK is Congress issuing subpoenas to baseball players? WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY? Baseball is not an issue for the federal government!
 
ya know I just read rick collins book legal muscle today too

awesome book, so much good info, really points out the bs in gov't
 
The reality of the situation is that the U.S congress has to "look" like it's doing something because they really don't care about steroid use either. For god's sake, baseball is america's national pastime. It's a holy relic. And since this relic has become corrupt, and when they see the image of kids eating cracker jacks being swapped for kids holding up "Bond's is a Juicehead" sign. It tends to spoil the mood in Washington. Is it hypocrytical? Of course it is, but you know what, so are humans, and many other things in life. That's how it goes. Life isn't perfect and none of us are either. Things happen.

Don't fault ANY administration, Republican or Democrat for doing what they are actually supposed to do. Steroids are illegal bro. And they are supposed to speak out against it. They let it slide for a while, but it's crossed the line by taking center stage in the public eye. Before baseball brought juice to light, nobody said shit. See the correlation? They are FORCED to say something now.

The war on tobacco is much worse IMHO, and I don't even smoke. The scare tactics of showing a removed artery being squeezed is fkd up. Ever see that bullshit commercial against smoking? And cigarettes are LEGAL! Want to be mad at someone. Be angry at trial lawyers and judges who fuck up our legal system and give out billions of dollars in payouts for junk lawsuits that we, the taxpayers, have to pay for in taxes, and also our health care coverage and medical expenses rise because the medical professionals and insurace companies have to compensate for the frivolous lawsuits.

If you're busted for a DUI, are you going to blame the police for pulling you over? It's your fault and you chose to do something illegal. Don't get mad because the gov't is forced to make a move on an illegal substance that you use. In reality, they're doing nothing wrong. Unless you are some fkn steroid kingpin who stands to lose 80 million this year, I'd understand. But not if you're a single user. I don't like it either, but I'm not going to bitch and point fingers.
 
toxicsambo said:
Don't get mad because the gov't is forced to make a move on an illegal substance that you use. In reality, they're doing nothing wrong. Unless you are some fkn steroid kingpin who stands to lose 80 million this year, I'd understand. But not if you're a single user. I don't like it either, but I'm not going to bitch and point fingers.

SamboPet, your arguments don't add up, holmes.

Of course I will be mad if the fucking government is "forced" to make a move on an illegal substance that I use. The're not illegal if you have a prescription, and I don't like invastion of my privacy either. The hypocrisy in the government is beyond belief, they have higher priorities than going after end users and I will never accept that AAS are any part of the war against drugs.

What a joke......you lost major props with this post, Sambopet.

Don't speak out the side of your mouth, when you know better.





DIV

:chomp:
 
DIVISION said:
SamboPet, your arguments don't add up, holmes.

Of course I will be mad if the fucking government is "forced" to make a move on an illegal substance that I use. The're not illegal if you have a prescription, and I don't like invastion of my privacy either. The hypocrisy in the government is beyond belief, they have higher priorities than going after end users and I will never accept that AAS are any part of the war against drugs.

What a joke......you lost major props with this post, Sambopet.

Don't speak out the side of your mouth, when you know better.





DIV

:chomp:


lmao. Oh ya, I forgot. You have a prescription. My bad. That changes everything.l

btw, Lil'Divi'pet, I don't think you're privacy is being jepordized. Unless they're after you? :cornholio
 
Dude your obliously blind!!!! look around you how easy we are loosing our freedoms, not just how AAS is put as the black plague of this century I'm talking about how even nutritional supplements, such as creatine and even Vitamins are going to be banned. Why so they can be prescription and cost you more. I'm not democrat or Republican or Liberal I hate politics but I know this goverment is getting out of hand and dont worry about the real issues, a useless war, a tremendous Debt my kids are going ending paying for it, instead of going forward we are going backwards!!!. Open your eyes!!!

toxicsambo said:
The reality of the situation is that the U.S congress has to "look" like it's doing something because they really don't care about steroid use either. For god's sake, baseball is america's national pastime. It's a holy relic. And since this relic has become corrupt, and when they see the image of kids eating cracker jacks being swapped for kids holding up "Bond's is a Juicehead" sign. It tends to spoil the mood in Washington. Is it hypocrytical? Of course it is, but you know what, so are humans, and many other things in life. That's how it goes. Life isn't perfect and none of us are either. Things happen.

Don't fault ANY administration, Republican or Democrat for doing what they are actually supposed to do. Steroids are illegal bro. And they are supposed to speak out against it. They let it slide for a while, but it's crossed the line by taking center stage in the public eye. Before baseball brought juice to light, nobody said shit. See the correlation? They are FORCED to say something now.

The war on tobacco is much worse IMHO, and I don't even smoke. The scare tactics of showing a removed artery being squeezed is fkd up. Ever see that bullshit commercial against smoking? And cigarettes are LEGAL! Want to be mad at someone. Be angry at trial lawyers and judges who fuck up our legal system and give out billions of dollars in payouts for junk lawsuits that we, the taxpayers, have to pay for in taxes, and also our health care coverage and medical expenses rise because the medical professionals and insurace companies have to compensate for the frivolous lawsuits.

If you're busted for a DUI, are you going to blame the police for pulling you over? It's your fault and you chose to do something illegal. Don't get mad because the gov't is forced to make a move on an illegal substance that you use. In reality, they're doing nothing wrong. Unless you are some fkn steroid kingpin who stands to lose 80 million this year, I'd understand. But not if you're a single user. I don't like it either, but I'm not going to bitch and point fingers.
 
Dieselgoku23 said:
Dude your obliously blind!!!! look around you how easy we are loosing our freedoms, not just how AAS is put as the black plague of this century I'm talking about how even nutritional supplements, such as creatine and even Vitamins are going to be banned. Why so they can be prescription and cost you more. I'm not democrat or Republican or Liberal I hate politics but I know this goverment is getting out of hand and dont worry about the real issues, a useless war, a tremendous Debt my kids are going ending paying for it, instead of going forward we are going backwards!!!. Open your eyes!!!

I think SamboPet was kidding with his post; I don't think he really believe that propoganda.



DIV

:chomp:
 
Dieselgoku23 said:
Division, what propaganda??? your telling this is a commercial?? no is actually happening lol!!

Hey, GokuPet.......settle down.

I'm sayin' that I don't think Sambo truly believes what HE WAS POSTING.

I KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

BELIEVE ME.




DIV

:chomp:
 
Dieselgoku23 said:
Dude your obliously blind!!!! look around you how easy we are loosing our freedoms, not just how AAS is put as the black plague of this century I'm talking about how even nutritional supplements, such as creatine and even Vitamins are going to be banned. Why so they can be prescription and cost you more. I'm not democrat or Republican or Liberal I hate politics but I know this goverment is getting out of hand and dont worry about the real issues, a useless war, a tremendous Debt my kids are going ending paying for it, instead of going forward we are going backwards!!!. Open your eyes!!!

Dude, take a breather. I don't even have the time nor space to give fill you in on how much I follow politics, law, and medicine. Try being a Respiratory Therapist and you'll see how every one of those aspects are all tied together. And how it effects general practitioner's and thier private business. Frivilous lawsuits are ruining this country. They are responsible for ephedrine being banned because some asshole takes 8 at a time during the summer and dies. Then his family sues the company, the store that carried it, and complains to the gov't to ban it. Don't explain the world to me like I don't know anything. That's not in a threatening manner, just saying I know what the deal is.

It's NOT just supplements either. Cigarettes and food are under attack also. Why do you think Wendy's has a fkn fruit bowl on thier menu now? So they can't be blamed for not having a healthy option for all the obese overeaters who will die from cardiovascular diseases. Understand?

The gov't acts upon the citizens outcry and in most cases it's a kneejerk reaction. Remember Prohibition? Remember why that started? If not, then do some research. It's a stage that's going on in the country that will pass. Stop overreacting and shaking in your underwear. Remember, only 50 years ago Elvis and rock'nroll was deemed the cause of youth violence. Then that hysteria passed. Just relax.
 
Don't fault ANY administration, Republican or Democrat for doing what they are actually supposed to do.
So it's OK to call people in front of congress because they play a sport and question them about whether or not they used steroids? Joe McCarthy did this type of thing. It was wrong then, it's wrong now.

Don't blame the administration? Who got up in a State of the Union Address and declared war on steroids? Only one guy I know. He is not against steroid use on legal grounds. So that's a weak argument.

Bush on Steroids

Why must sports be drug-free?

Jacob Sullum



In one of the more puzzling parts of his State of the Union speech, President Bush offered his opinion about how professional sports should be run. He did not criticize the instant replay rule, condemn the use of designated hitters, or tell returning head coach Joe Gibbs how to restore the Redskins to their former glory. Instead, he asserted that athletes should not be permitted to use "performance-enhancing drugs like steroids."

Bush stated this principle as if it were obviously true, as if no reasonable person could disagree that "team owners, union representatives, coaches, and players" need to "get rid of steroids now." Yet the more you think about it, the less sense there is to a rule that prohibits athletes from using drugs to enhance their performance.

One reason the president offered is that such drugs are "dangerous." Compared to what? Football players routinely get knocked around by 300-pound behemoths. They and other professional athletes frequently suffer injuries—pulled hamstrings, concussions, torn ligaments, busted knees, separated shoulders—that may force them out of the game for months or leave them with lifelong disabilities. If avoiding danger were their main concern, they would not be playing to begin with.

In any case, as sports writer Dayn Perry shows in the January 2003 issue of Reason, the hazards of anabolic steroids have been greatly exaggerated. After looking at the scientific literature and interviewing experts, Perry concludes that steroids can be used with reasonable safety by adults under medical supervision.

The irony is that legal restrictions and league bans on steroids discourage athletes who use them from seeking medical guidance, so they're more at risk than they would be if steroid use were permitted. As with recreational drugs, prohibition makes steroids more dangerous, not less.

Safety was not the only issue the president raised. He also said using performance-enhancing drugs "sends the wrong message: that there are shortcuts to accomplishment, and that performance is more important than character."

A man who owes so much to inherited wealth and his family's political connections probably should not broach the topic of "shortcuts to accomplishment." Not all shortcuts come in pills or capsules.

An athlete who uses the latest exercise equipment, fitness knowledge, and nutritional expertise to get into shape is using shortcuts that were unavailable to his predecessors 30 or 40 years ago. More fundamentally, all professional athletes benefit from the shortcut known as talent: Because of their genetic endowments, they are stronger, faster, or more agile than most people.

Athletes, like everyone else, are rightly judged by what they do with the advantages they had at birth. But if their innate abilities do not negate their accomplishments, why would their use of artificial enhancements that are available to everyone?

Craig Masback, chief executive of USA Track and Field, praised Bush's anti-steroid comments, saying "cheating by our star athletes sends the wrong message." Yet using drugs to boost performance is cheating only if it violates a rule, such as the ban on steroids maintained by the Olympics and the NFL.

If all athletes were allowed to use chemical aids, those who chose to do so would not have an unfair advantage any more than an actress with breast implants does. And just as it is possible to enjoy an actress's performance despite her artificial enhancements, it should be possible to enjoy a football or baseball game despite the use of steroids or stimulants—and obviously it is, since fan interest in these sports has not exactly evaporated in recent years, despite periodic doping scandals.

"No result in any elite sport can be trusted with reasonable certainty to have been achieved without performance-enhancing drugs," New York Times sports writer Jere Longman declared last fall. At the same time, he conceded, "whether fans believe this or care is another matter."

Donald Catlin, director of the Olympic drug testing lab at UCLA, told Longman, "In a way, if all the top athletes were on drugs, they would be on an equal footing again." While Catlin views that prospect with distaste, it's not clear why.

Two decades ago, in their book Drug Control in a Free Society, James B. Bakalar and Lester Grinspoon noted that "it seems almost self-evident to most people today that using drugs in athletic competition is wrong," but "it is curiously difficult and complicated to justify that position." A presidential endorsement does not make the task any easier.
 
Ulter said:
So it's OK to call people in front of congress because they play a sport and question them about whether or not they used steroids? Joe McCarthy did this type of thing. It was wrong then, it's wrong now.
.

Eh....Communism and steroids are not comparable. Srry. I understand what you're trying to get at.
 
toxicsambo said:
The reality of the situation is that the U.S congress has to "look" like it's doing something because they really don't care about steroid use either. For god's sake, baseball is america's national pastime. It's a holy relic. And since this relic has become corrupt, and when they see the image of kids eating cracker jacks being swapped for kids holding up "Bond's is a Juicehead" sign. It tends to spoil the mood in Washington. Is it hypocrytical? Of course it is, but you know what, so are humans, and many other things in life. That's how it goes. Life isn't perfect and none of us are either. Things happen.

Don't fault ANY administration, Republican or Democrat for doing what they are actually supposed to do. Steroids are illegal bro. And they are supposed to speak out against it. They let it slide for a while, but it's crossed the line by taking center stage in the public eye. Before baseball brought juice to light, nobody said shit. See the correlation? They are FORCED to say something now.

The war on tobacco is much worse IMHO, and I don't even smoke. The scare tactics of showing a removed artery being squeezed is fkd up. Ever see that bullshit commercial against smoking? And cigarettes are LEGAL! Want to be mad at someone. Be angry at trial lawyers and judges who fuck up our legal system and give out billions of dollars in payouts for junk lawsuits that we, the taxpayers, have to pay for in taxes, and also our health care coverage and medical expenses rise because the medical professionals and insurace companies have to compensate for the frivolous lawsuits.

If you're busted for a DUI, are you going to blame the police for pulling you over? It's your fault and you chose to do something illegal. Don't get mad because the gov't is forced to make a move on an illegal substance that you use. In reality, they're doing nothing wrong. Unless you are some fkn steroid kingpin who stands to lose 80 million this year, I'd understand. But not if you're a single user. I don't like it either, but I'm not going to bitch and point fingers.

bro its plain and simple...the argument isnt that everyone is pissed cause they are cracking down on something illegal. its that there are other more important things to be spending our tax dollars on. for example military equipment and vehicles. everything in the military is all fucked up or broke. sometimes its cause of carelessness but most of the time its cause the shit just gets used so damn much....there are bigger and better things to worry about
 
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Ulter said:
And oh by the way they couldn't care less if an athlete used them legally or illegally. That's not the issue to them.

Ulter, I'm giving you a C+ for reading comprehension. I said the same exact thing in my post. The gov't doesn't care about the athletes use of illegal steroids. We don't see Congress going after the NFL who has way more juiceheads than the MLB. I also mentioned this in my post.

Listen, boxers, promoters, and it's chairmen have been asked to testify many times for acts of fraudulent or illegal activity in it's history. Nobody says, "omg, it's a witch hunt!" because it's not. Boxing has alot of croooked shit going on. And if any1 here thinks MLB has done nothing wrong. I say, according to it's own parameters, it has. Only Bud Selig was willing to look the other way, Fay Vincent did not. Regardless, I really don't care because I will continue to live my life, take gear, and not worry about the world falling in on me. L8r, it's time for Sienfeld.
 
Don't fault ANY administration, Republican or Democrat for doing what they are actually supposed to do. Steroids are illegal bro. And they are supposed to speak out against it.

Sorry, you didn't post this? [They are supposed to speak out because they are illegal.] You didn't post that? Someone has your password bro because it looks like you did.

So when I say, " And oh by the way they couldn't care less if an athlete used them legally or illegally. That's not the issue to them."
I thought I was posting to YOU.

I wouldn't talk about my comprehension when you can't remember what you just wrote.
 
Ulter said:
Sorry, you didn't post this? [They are supposed to speak out because they are illegal.] You didn't post that? Someone has your password bro because it looks like you did.

So when I say, " And oh by the way they couldn't care less if an athlete used them legally or illegally. That's not the issue to them."
I thought I was posting to YOU.

I wouldn't talk about my comprehension when you can't remember what you just wrote.


I did post that. WTH are you talking about?

"The reality of the situation is that the U.S congress has to "look" like it's doing something because they really don't care about steroid use either. For god's sake, baseball is america's national pastime. It's a holy relic. And since this relic has become corrupt, and when they see the image of kids eating cracker jacks being swapped for kids holding up "Bond's is a Juicehead" sign. It tends to spoil the mood in Washington. Is it hypocrytical? Of course it is, but you know what, so are humans, and many other things in life. That's how it goes. Life isn't perfect and none of us are either. Things happen.

Don't fault ANY administration, Republican or Democrat for doing what they are actually supposed to do. Steroids are illegal bro. And they are supposed to speak out against it. They let it slide for a while, but it's crossed the line by taking center stage in the public eye. Before baseball brought juice to light, nobody said shit. See the correlation? They are FORCED to say something now."

Don't missquote me bro. TY. If going to attempt to to misrepresent what I say for your own purpose then I have no need to even indulge in this conversation. This seems to really push your buttons and I don't know why. I sense your fustration. Religion, Politics, and Money are always terrible talking points in RL, and I don't expect communication on these matters would be better understood on an internet forum. GG
 
Don't fault ANY administration, Republican or Democrat for doing what they are actually supposed to do. Steroids are illegal bro. And they are supposed to speak out against it. They let it slide for a while, but it's crossed the line by taking center stage in the public eye. Before baseball brought juice to light, nobody said shit. See the correlation? They are FORCED to say something now."

Did any congress in the past investigate and call in Olympic athletes who were caught using drugs?
Did any congress in the past call in NFL Players who were suspended for using drugs?
Are you saying that baseball players are somehow more center stage? And if so you're saying their popularity means that congress MUST involve themeselves in that particular sport while ignoring all others?
Other sports have had steroid use come to light, as you put it, and nothing was done about it. Until Bush.

I didn't misquote you. I took what you said word for word. How can that be mis-quoting you?

I don't discuss politics on the board and I am not doing it now. I am posting about an administration that is acting against my best interest. And everyone else's on this board for that matter.
 
Actually, the laws against steroids were already on the books. Bush just decided to enforce them.

Granted, he is proposing additional legisation, but toxicsambo has a point. After all, the only other options for Bush is to reverse the existing legislation, in which case he loses a huge section of his base, or to ignore the situation altogether, in which case he would be (correctly) accused of negligence.

The problem isn't Bush. It's the accumulation of legislation against our personal minds and bodies. A quick perusal of those laws will reveal the responsible party(s) and pinpoint the origin of the tragedy entire.

Out of curiosity, Ulter, what would you propose Bush do?

I will also answer that question, but I do respect your opinions on this matter (as we see eye to eye at the crux of the issue -- we agree that the legislation is unconstitutional and frivolous), so faced with the issue in its current context, what course of action would you recommend that Mr. Bush, as a conservative (so-called), take?
 
I Shrugs shoulders.......No no no alot of you say Jose Conseco is a hero.......AS I SAID HIS RATERY WOULD START TO BRING SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES TO THE AAS COMUNITY......and to the many of you who say.....well hes doing a good job hes educating the masses about it and taking a firm step...NO HE IS NOT. JOSE CONSECO IS NOT AN EXAMPLE FOR LEGALLIZING JUICE...HE IS A WIFE BEATER AND CONVICTED CRIMINAL AND RAT THAN WHEN EXAMINED BY THE MEDIA FALLS UNDER THE EXACT DEFENITION OF ROID RAGER AND DESPERATE ATHLETE WILLING TO DO ANYTHING TO GET MONEY.
 
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His players used steroids and you're telling me he didn't know it? Why is this all so important now. Steroids have been widely used in sports for decades and everyone knew it.
Since when does the President of the United States need to become involved in the rules of baseball? He is not simply taking a position that the use of steroids is illegal. He's taking a position against it as "cheating". Baseball is a business and they don't need government oversight to enforce or investigate who broke the rules.
So what should he do? The same thing he did as the owner in Texas. Nothing. It's none his business anymore.
How is it that this administration wants to practically eliminate government controls on oil companies and industrial pollution but it needs to involve itself in governing baseball?
Like I said, the whole thing is a diversion.
 
Ulter I agreee. I am a Bush supporter. This is all politics. Of course they should not have anything to say about this. But as Fuckinshreded wrote in the other thread about Govt. 1/2 the laws in this country are already unconstitutional. Congress and the Govt have no right to decide what you or i may put into our body. THis is gauranteed under the bill of rights and constitution. Whether its a joint or Aas. Of course its politics as wee all know. Bush is simply pandering to the bumbed down masses. This is what politicians do (unfortunately) . As i posted above...this was brough on NOT BY THE GOVT but by Jose Conseco and idiots in MLB who while knowing that juice is illegal decided to sell out put the story into the oppen and put unnecesary pressure on you and I. Anyone who has studied and is involved in politics will not simply choose to uplift 1 point in a persons cadency....this is just how it is. Its unfortunate but th epolitical spectrum is much broader and complicated than most people can immagine. The people who control this country whether its a democrat or republican... use baits and switches, diversions, scapegoating, and return favors on many issues they do not even agree on in order to prosper the agenda of the issues they truly do agree upon. You take a fall on 1 isue and give in in returns for passing a bill etc or having the political capital to do so.
 
Ulter said:
Did any congress in the past investigate and call in Olympic athletes who were caught using drugs?
Did any congress in the past call in NFL Players who were suspended for using drugs?
Are you saying that baseball players are somehow more center stage? And if so you're saying their popularity means that congress MUST involve themeselves in that particular sport while ignoring all others?
Other sports have had steroid use come to light, as you put it, and nothing was done about it. Until Bush.

I didn't misquote you. I took what you said word for word. How can that be mis-quoting you?

I don't discuss politics on the board and I am not doing it now. I am posting about an administration that is acting against my best interest. And everyone else's on this board for that matter.

1)"Did any congress in the past investigate and call in Olympic athletes who were caught using drugs?"

It's an INTERNATIONAL body and the U.S acts in conjunction with the committee. Congress wouldn't subpoena an Olympic athlete because Congress works for the U.S, NOT for an International Sports Association. The I.O.C swiftly punishes steroid and narcotics users with a LIFE-TIME BAN. So, this proves that within International competition, steroids are illegal, even when the substances are legal in places Russia, Bulgaria, etc. If you're so upset about what Congress is doing, then why don't I hear anything from you about the I.O.C. Wouldn't you say they are Stalinistic in thier ways by circumventing a country's law on steroids by deeming them illegal in thier competitive organization?

2)"Did any congress in the past call in NFL Players who were suspended for using drugs?"

No, because the NFL actually suspends players who test postitive. See, since the NFL actually enforces it's own violation codes, they at least try to do something, or make it seem like they do, and it doesn't seem like they're encouraging the use of an illegal substance. BTW: As long as we agree it's common knowledge that steroids are illegal, and only a fraction are legal by prescription for serious medical conditions. Right? Let's not be hypocritical here. I know what I'm doing, and so do you. So let's not play stupid. Be honest.

3)"Are you saying that baseball players are somehow more center stage? And if so you're saying their popularity means that congress MUST involve themeselves in that particular sport while ignoring all others?"

YES!!!! Of course they are. Why do you think they call Baseball America's pastime, America's Crown Jewel? It's nostalgia and history. JFC, baseball was created in America. It should be plain as day that baseball players are more center stage than any other sport. Do you not see the significance? Even Baseball Cards are worth more money than cards from other sports. Take a guess why. Do you follow sports? Honestly, do you? Because it seems like many ppl watch it here and there, but aren't really die hard fans. The die hard fans are fkn pissed because the sport is tarnished and tainted. All the new records are insignificant. Bond's 700th ball didnt' generate any interest and its worth less than dirt .

To answer the second part of your question. No, Congress has asked the owners and presidents from the NFL, NCAA, and I.O.C to be witnesses. I guess you don't really pay attention to all this because this just happened last week bro. I'll give you a little info, the House Energy and Commerce subcommittee heard from witnesses, including labor lawyers from the commissioner's office and the NFL, and representatives of the NCAA and the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency.

I see that this is less of a steroid and MLB issue as it is a personal dislike for the President, for you and many others. Just to remind you, if you're a Democrat or a Bush hater, Sen. Joe Biden, a "liberal" Democrat from Delaware is a major player and created this entire scenario.
"This important case, successfully litigated by Rick Collins and on appeal by the government, holds the federal Analogue Statute unconstitutional with respect to 1,4-butanediol. And for those health and anti-aging enthusiasts who enjoy the benefits of dietary prohormone products, there's an article co-written by bodybuilding chemist Patrick Arnold about a pending House bill that seeks to criminalize a whole spectrum of these currently legal, over-the-counter supplements. A new Senate bill (S. 1780) sponsored by Senator Joe Biden now seeks to do pretty much the same thing. There's also a piece on federal and state steroid laws here in the U.S., and a piece on steroid laws in the United Kingdom.

So either you really don't know who is doing what and just guess it's Bush's fault, or you don't care and just want to blame the President for everything. The President CAN NOT take ANY action without the support from congress and the senate. So, this "witch hunt" is being carried out by politicians in general. Don't be so irrsponsible as to say "OMG it's Bush taking away my rights!!" It's all those involved. It's definitly an overreaction. This is about legal issues also. An american business possibly endorsed the use of illegal drugs and/ or neglected to punish known users of illegal drugs? This isn't that minute of a gripe. Overblown, yes, but it's not baseless in its findings.

FYI, I think this whole thing is bullshit also. But like I said, Baseball created this outcry by embarassing itself and the gov't is reacting to it. But I still say guys like Bond's, Mac, and Sosa really fkd up baseball. Baseball was a sport for any1 of any ability. There's a position for everyone. If you're not a great hitter, you can be a good defender. You don't have to be in great shape to play 1st base (Cecil Fielder) and be great.

For those of you who want proof on who voted for what, and who is behind bill's being passed in the U.S. Be informed and don't be a sheep.
http://www.vote-smart.org/
The entire database of EVERY elected official and thier voting records. Have fun.
 
toxicsambo said:
1)"Did any congress in the past investigate and call in Olympic athletes who were caught using drugs?"

It's an INTERNATIONAL body and the U.S acts in conjunction with the committee. Congress wouldn't subpoena an Olympic athlete because Congress works for the U.S, NOT for an International Sports Association. The I.O.C swiftly punishes steroid and narcotics users with a LIFE-TIME BAN. So, this proves that within International competition, steroids are illegal, even when the substances are legal in places Russia, Bulgaria, etc. If you're so upset about what Congress is doing, then why don't I hear anything from you about the I.O.C. Wouldn't you say they are Stalinistic in thier ways by circumventing a country's law on steroids by deeming them illegal in thier competitive organization?

2)"Did any congress in the past call in NFL Players who were suspended for using drugs?"

No, because the NFL actually suspends players who test postitive. See, since the NFL actually enforces it's own violation codes, they at least try to do something, or make it seem like they do, and it doesn't seem like they're encouraging the use of an illegal substance. BTW: As long as we agree it's common knowledge that steroids are illegal, and only a fraction are legal by prescription for serious medical conditions. Right? Let's not be hypocritical here. I know what I'm doing, and so do you. So let's not play stupid. Be honest.

3)"Are you saying that baseball players are somehow more center stage? And if so you're saying their popularity means that congress MUST involve themeselves in that particular sport while ignoring all others?"

YES!!!! Of course they are. Why do you think they call Baseball America's pastime, America's Crown Jewel? It's nostalgia and history. JFC, baseball was created in America. It should be plain as day that baseball players are more center stage than any other sport. Do you not see the significance? Even Baseball Cards are worth more money than cards from other sports. Take a guess why. Do you follow sports? Honestly, do you? Because it seems like many ppl watch it here and there, but aren't really die hard fans. The die hard fans are fkn pissed because the sport is tarnished and tainted. All the new records are insignificant. Bond's 700th ball didnt' generate any interest and its worth less than dirt .

To answer the second part of your question. No, Congress has asked the owners and presidents from the NFL, NCAA, and I.O.C to be witnesses. I guess you don't really pay attention to all this because this just happened last week bro. I'll give you a little info, the House Energy and Commerce subcommittee heard from witnesses, including labor lawyers from the commissioner's office and the NFL, and representatives of the NCAA and the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency.

I see that this is less of a steroid and MLB issue as it is a personal dislike for the President, for you and many others. Just to remind you, if you're a Democrat or a Bush hater, Sen. Joe Biden, a "liberal" Democrat from Delaware is a major player and created this entire scenario.
"This important case, successfully litigated by Rick Collins and on appeal by the government, holds the federal Analogue Statute unconstitutional with respect to 1,4-butanediol. And for those health and anti-aging enthusiasts who enjoy the benefits of dietary prohormone products, there's an article co-written by bodybuilding chemist Patrick Arnold about a pending House bill that seeks to criminalize a whole spectrum of these currently legal, over-the-counter supplements. A new Senate bill (S. 1780) sponsored by Senator Joe Biden now seeks to do pretty much the same thing. There's also a piece on federal and state steroid laws here in the U.S., and a piece on steroid laws in the United Kingdom.

So either you really don't know who is doing what and just guess it's Bush's fault, or you don't care and just want to blame the President for everything. The President CAN NOT take ANY action without the support from congress and the senate. So, this "witch hunt" is being carried out by politicians in general. Don't be so irrsponsible as to say "OMG it's Bush taking away my rights!!" It's all those involved. It's definitly an overreaction. This is about legal issues also. An american business possibly endorsed the use of illegal drugs and/ or neglected to punish known users of illegal drugs? This isn't that minute of a gripe. Overblown, yes, but it's not baseless in its findings.

FYI, I think this whole thing is bullshit also. But like I said, Baseball created this outcry by embarassing itself and the gov't is reacting to it. But I still say guys like Bond's, Mac, and Sosa really fkd up baseball. Baseball was a sport for any1 of any ability. There's a position for everyone. If you're not a great hitter, you can be a good defender. You don't have to be in great shape to play 1st base (Cecil Fielder) and be great.

For those of you who want proof on who voted for what, and who is behind bill's being passed in the U.S. Be informed and don't be a sheep.
http://www.vote-smart.org/
The entire database of EVERY elected official and thier voting records. Have fun.

Dittos on that bro!. You hit the nail square on the head. It purely ammuses me when someone says "Bush is doing this or that" these people have no idea how politics and our govt remotely work(Not talking about Ulter....Ulter is a very educated guy), or the interworking and wining of the political game.
 
Fukkenshredded said:
Granted, he is proposing additional legisation, but toxicsambo has a point. After all, the only other options for Bush is to reverse the existing legislation, in which case he loses a huge section of his base, or to ignore the situation altogether, in which case he would be (correctly) accused of negligence.


What additional legislation?
 
Mc Cain is the big hero, and he is pressuring bush on this.. Mc Cain is RINO (Repubpican in name only_,

He stands for murder, anti 2nd ammendment, anti freedom( anti iraq/afghanistan). Sen. McCain along with Joe Biden are leading the tough man train. McCain must be replaced with a true Republican. And he must not be allowed to run for president. Il take any democrat over Mc Cain. At least they call themselves Democrats and admit top their goals ( in some cases). Mc Cain would never be a candidate for president just as Rudy Juliani etc. because we republicans would never vote for him. Personally if the constitution were changed and Arnold was allowed to run for president it would be great. I dont agree with him on all isues ( he is a soft republican 1/4 % democrat) but i think he would do good once he got to power regarding our Aas isues.
 
This will go on forever because all of your answers are skewed with opinion and wrong facts. I'd be here all day. Taking it all apart point by point.

1. Who said anything about our government working with the IOC? I didn't say IOC. We have olympic athletes test positive BEFORE THEY EVER GET TO THE OLYMPICS. That would fall under our juristiction wouldn't it? You get an F for comprehension.

2. The NFL players were using steroids for 20 years before there was a drug policy. Where was congress then? Your argument assumes this all started since the policy was put into effect to test and suspend players. That's wrong. It started in 1963.

3. "YES!!!! Of course they are."
Well I can't even address that it's so out of whack. You're saying that a person should be "profiled" because of the sport he plays. Ooook

4. "I see that this is less of a steroid and MLB issue as it is a personal dislike for the President, for you and many others."
You can tell me what your motives are, but don't tell me what mine are. There is no investigation into the use of amphetamines or other drugs in baseball. This IS strickly a steroid use issue and that is my motive.
Like I said, government has no business in the enforcement of the rules of baseball.

And BTW you're bringing up the "illegal issue" again that you said you didn't bring up.
 
Ulter said:
Sorry, you didn't post this? [They are supposed to speak out because they are illegal.] You didn't post that? Someone has your password bro because it looks like you did.

I wouldn't talk about my comprehension when you can't remember what you just wrote.

At certain times Ulter can be very harsh, even caustic when replying to kids. This is one of those times. :lmao:


bicepts101 said:
bro its plain and simple...the argument isnt that everyone is pissed cause they are cracking down on something illegal. its that there are other more important things to be spending our tax dollars on. for example military equipment and vehicles. everything in the military is all fucked up or broke. sometimes its cause of carelessness but most of the time its cause the shit just gets used so damn much....there are bigger and better things to worry about

True.

Seems that the priorities are a bit fucked up with this administration, when they should be diverting resources to our military and our countries' security, yet are worried about AAS use in baseball. :confused:

In the grand scheme of things, AAS are less harmful than recreational drugs and alcohol, even when abused. In a perfect world, AAS should be made available to our military members because of all people THEY NEED IT when you consider the physical demands of the job and how rough the deployments are on the body.

@babyBi: wouldn't that be a dream? Go to CIF and get all your TA-50 and at the end of the line you get 2 cycles worth of AAS of your choice along with ancillaries? :lmao: That shit would be off the chain.....




DIV

:chomp:
 
Division, Steroids were invented for the miltary. Hitler's.

My single biggest bitch is the way they just picked up on steroids and decided they can make their grandstand case by using baseball. They ignore any other drugs used in baseball or in sports in general. Drugs that are considerably more dangerous. I think they picked steroids because no one understands them. People understand what an amphetamine is and does. But you can make up just about anything, and they have, about what steroids will do.
And it's not like it's the first time congress was on the wrong side of this issue.
The FDA, FTC, Health and Human Services, the NIH, ALL TESTIFIED AGAINST SCHEDULING STEROIDS at the congressional hearings. And congress did it anyway.
 
Ulter said:
Division, Steroids were invented for the miltary. Hitler's.

My single biggest bitch is the way they just picked up on steroids and decided they can make their grandstand case by using baseball. They ignore any other drugs used in baseball or in sports in general. Drugs that are considerably more dangerous. I think they picked steroids because no one understands them. People understand what an amphetamine is and does. But you can make up just about anything, and they have, about what steroids will do.
And it's not like it's the first time congress was on the wrong side of this issue.
The FDA, FTC, Health and Human Services, the NIH, ALL TESTIFIED AGAINST SCHEDULING STEROIDS at the congressional hearings. And congress did it anyway.

Bottom Line: What the man wants, the man GETS!

Yes, AAS are a rallying cry now......and I think it's naive to see it as anything but a political ploy at this point.

To your point, Ulter, amphetamines have been used in baseball since the 60's and are still prevalent today. They are called "greenies" and yet they aren't testing for those because it's understood that they've always been in the game and are a part of the game. MLB would do the same with AAS as they have basically let it go on for decades, but Congress has pretty much forced their hand and MLB folded, essentially hanging the players out to dry.

I expect nothing less from our government, and with Bush I only think it will be dramatized much worse than if we'd had Clinton. I think Bush will use anything to cement his solidarity with the religious right and this is just another notch in the belt for him.




DIV

:chomp:
 
If you make the argument that it's OK because amphetamines have always been there then the NFL could have made the same argument about steroids because they weren't ruled out until 20 years after they were wide spread. That's just a weak argument. They are perfomance enhancing drugs that are illegal to have without a script. Which by the way is the same description as steriods.
I don't know what would have happened under Clinton, but you're probably right. I would think he would have stayed out of it simply because he stayed out of the hearings to schedule steroids. So that's his history.
 
Ulter said:
If you make the argument that it's OK because amphetamines have always been there then the NFL could have made the same argument about steroids because they weren't ruled out until 20 years after they were wide spread. That's just a weak argument.

Regardless of whether it's a "weak" argument, essentially that's what it looks like MLB's policy was regarding AAS. Officials and GM's knew about rampant AAS use within their teams and specific players but turned their back on the issue, thus leaving me to conclude that they accepted AAS use just as they did with amphetamines. What else can you really conclude from that?

I think players will continue to use AAS and amphetamines anyway.......testing or no testing...



DIV

:chomp:
 
Yeah, the same way Clinton stayed out of the GHB scandal, calling it a national emergency and simply circumnavigating Congress altogether to declare it a schedule I drug, all because of two deaths and some angry moms.

But wait...that's votes.

And the way he stayed out of Elian Gonzales' lawful guardian's home by simply circumnavigating the already scheduled court hearings...

That Bill Clinton sure knew how to handle these kinds of things. What a president.

Ulter, you are 100% correct about what Bush should do. NOTHING. It is a state issue, plain and simple. The president should have nothing to do with this type of issue to begin with, except to step in and stop anything unconstitutional if he sees it...

I know most of this board thinks very highly of Bill Clinton. But when you look at his postitive legislation, it is all under the republican house and senate, and the majority of the legislation was voted in by a republican majority rather than a democratic majority. The reason he avoided the hearings was because he avoided anything that he didn't know how to resolve. Hell, he even had Janet Reno go in and rob the household of their child. Great president. Great.

Bush lost me with his invasive approach to violation of our individual rights in the same way that Bill Clinton did. The only thing that can be said in Bush's favor is that one can rely a little bit more on his promises than one could on Clinton's. Clinton wasn't the worst president in history, but he was close. He had a position in the historic time-line that was singular in nature, offering opportunities for global political growth that we will never see again. He wasted all of them. His mistakes are still not all home to roost.

To me, he was an especially tragic figure because he was equipped to be a great president and a great man. Probably the smartest president we've had (since Jefferson, anyway), and certainly the most politically savvy. So much potential wasted on a personal agenda not even connected to the well-being of this country in any way, shape or form. The guy was all over the map.

That being said, I listen when he talks. He has a remarkable way of making things sound all right. He is a lot like an oxycodone pill. Feels good, but after a while masks everything, and ultimately becomes tragic.

Bush is not the best president, but believe me when I tell you that Gore would have been absolutely catastrophic. Not only did he himself lack political intuition, knowldge of history, and any understanding of how to lead, he didn't even have any friends who could do the jobs for him.

Those of you who think that if Bush would have lost this last election, things would be better, need to contemplate the following: John Kerry would potentially had the power to elect the chief supreme justice. He could have elected Hillary Clinton to the Supreme Court (you laugh, but it would not be an entirely impossible scenario). In any event, he would elect justices that legislate from the bench, and that is the CORE problem of our justice system right now. That is, in fact, what this administration is doing that is pissing ALL of us off right now -- legislating form the same seat that punishes and judges.

Democrats are gonna be BEGGING for conservatives in the Supreme Court once they understand exactly how important it is to have STRICT CONSTRUCTIONISTS in the Supreme Court. Remember, they don't get to impose their opinions or personal beliefs. They interpret the LAW ONLY. NOT THE SITUATION, ETHICS, OR CONTEXT. That is the job of the JURY. You understand that? WE THE PEOPLE get to determine the context, ethics, and situations as they are put in front of us in court hearings. Once a law is passed, a sentence issued, it cannot be bent from the bench, lest we get a corrupt Supreme Court that takes advantage of the precedent set forth by such activity.

This is why Ulter is absolutely correct in his response to my question about what Bush should do. STAY OUT. He should not set the precedent of involvement in legislating what we put into our bodies. But wait...he didn't, did he?

It's already been done before.
 
toxicsambo said:
The reality of the situation is that the U.S congress has to "look" like it's doing something because they really don't care about steroid use either. For god's sake, baseball is america's national pastime. It's a holy relic. And since this relic has become corrupt, and when they see the image of kids eating cracker jacks being swapped for kids holding up "Bond's is a Juicehead" sign. It tends to spoil the mood in Washington. Is it hypocrytical? Of course it is, but you know what, so are humans, and many other things in life. That's how it goes. Life isn't perfect and none of us are either. Things happen.

Don't fault ANY administration, Republican or Democrat for doing what they are actually supposed to do. Steroids are illegal bro. And they are supposed to speak out against it. They let it slide for a while, but it's crossed the line by taking center stage in the public eye. Before baseball brought juice to light, nobody said shit. See the correlation? They are FORCED to say something now.

The war on tobacco is much worse IMHO, and I don't even smoke. The scare tactics of showing a removed artery being squeezed is fkd up. Ever see that bullshit commercial against smoking? And cigarettes are LEGAL! Want to be mad at someone. Be angry at trial lawyers and judges who fuck up our legal system and give out billions of dollars in payouts for junk lawsuits that we, the taxpayers, have to pay for in taxes, and also our health care coverage and medical expenses rise because the medical professionals and insurace companies have to compensate for the frivolous lawsuits.

If you're busted for a DUI, are you going to blame the police for pulling you over? It's your fault and you chose to do something illegal. Don't get mad because the gov't is forced to make a move on an illegal substance that you use. In reality, they're doing nothing wrong. Unless you are some fkn steroid kingpin who stands to lose 80 million this year, I'd understand. But not if you're a single user. I don't like it either, but I'm not going to bitch and point fingers.

Your points are well taken and you communicate well with admirable knowledge/research on topics of politics and govt..however....The purpose of my "rant" was far more general...I could literally write pages responding to some of the specifics of your posts (and Ulter's)..but for now just let me reiterate that my problem lies in the general direction this country is heading....of which there are many examples...steroids is currently one of which is burning me the most at the moment simply because of the horrendous amount of erroneous information being fed to the public as well as completely uneducated unresearched decisions and statements made by govt. politicians concerning anabolics in America....However, you can realize my alarm considering the abundance of other non-AAS related events which support the fact that my constitutional rights are weakening with every passing year....I was saddened to watch CNN the other day and witness some politician who is attempting to introduce a bill which will force the FCC to introduce a censor to regulate CABLE TELEVISION....he directly quoted the Sopranos as an example....imagine..something that we as adults willingly pay for....being censored and regulated because of the chance a child MAY tune in and hear the "F" word or glimpse a female breast....subsequently sentencing said child to a future life of hellish debauchery and certain adoptment of psychopathic values....How is it the right of one man to tell America they can or can not willingly watch cable TV. watch pornographic material, listen to Howard Stern......it is insulting and forgetful of original American rights....Going back to AAS...my major gripe as an intelligent adult who has spent countless hours researching anabolics as well as consulting with physicians....because I may want to use some lite anabolics for personal use throughout my lifetime....how is it righteous that these substances be compared to cocaine and heroin....that 110% false ridiculous erroneous statements spread like wildfire, claims such as "steroids kill more kids every day than cocaine" ...I actually heard that one this morning on a radio talk show.....the IRRATIONAL allocation of resources...funds and manpower to combat these issues is inexcuseable when there are FAR more grevious problems our country and the world is facing ....far too many to list here....anyway...Im half asleep so sorry for the long rant again...
 
Ulter said:
I love ya bro but now this has gone way over to the political side and I'm out.

SHREDHED!!!!!! You scared off Ancient Ulter!!!! :mad:

DAMN YOU! :redhot:

It's hard enough to get him to crawl out of his cave!!! :worried:




DIV

:chomp:
 
VeteranNewbie88 said:
Your points are well taken and you communicate well with admirable knowledge/research on topics of politics and govt..however....The purpose of my "rant" was far more general...I could literally write pages responding to some of the specifics of your posts (and Ulter's)..but for now just let me reiterate that my problem lies in the general direction this country is heading....of which there are many examples...steroids is currently one of which is burning me the most at the moment simply because of the horrendous amount of erroneous information being fed to the public as well as completely uneducated unresearched decisions and statements made by govt. politicians concerning anabolics in America....However, you can realize my alarm considering the abundance of other non-AAS related events which support the fact that my constitutional rights are weakening with every passing year....I was saddened to watch CNN the other day and witness some politician who is attempting to introduce a bill which will force the FCC to introduce a censor to regulate CABLE TELEVISION....he directly quoted the Sopranos as an example....imagine..something that we as adults willingly pay for....being censored and regulated because of the chance a child MAY tune in and hear the "F" word or glimpse a female breast....subsequently sentencing said child to a future life of hellish debauchery and certain adoptment of psychopathic values....How is it the right of one man to tell America they can or can not willingly watch cable TV. watch pornographic material, listen to Howard Stern......it is insulting and forgetful of original American rights....Going back to AAS...my major gripe as an intelligent adult who has spent countless hours researching anabolics as well as consulting with physicians....because I may want to use some lite anabolics for personal use throughout my lifetime....how is it righteous that these substances be compared to cocaine and heroin....that 110% false ridiculous erroneous statements spread like wildfire, claims such as "steroids kill more kids every day than cocaine" ...I actually heard that one this morning on a radio talk show.....the IRRATIONAL allocation of resources...funds and manpower to combat these issues is inexcuseable when there are FAR more grevious problems our country and the world is facing ....far too many to list here....anyway...Im half asleep so sorry for the long rant again...

Yea, I hear you bro. I'm a huge Stern fan. I've listened to him since 89' and will continue to do so on Sirius Radio. The FCC thing pisses me off to no end. What's funny is how everything is about "the children. Won't sombody please think of the children." So they treat adults and children alike and everything is fkn backwards. But not everything is perfect and there are swings in policy. Even Clinton lied and said he would restructure the FCC and stop all the fines. He lied, didn't do a thing, and allowed the FCC to go after Stern over and over again. Meanwhile he could get away with taking citizen records held by the F.B.I for political blackmail. Morality at it's finest. There is absolutley no difinitive proof that Steroids is directly linked to a death among HS users. Look in the gov't records. And use among HS males are like 1.3%, lower than HEROIN. lmao. Oh well. But there are more important things going on right now, and this shit will subside in time.
 
Div, believe me when I tell you Ulter ain't scared, he just sees the pointlessness of continuing in this venue. He always has a thorough understanding of what he speaks about. If he doesn't (which is rare), he keeps quiet. We are on the opposite sides of the political fence in some areas, but we both agree vehemently on one point:

We have the right to do with our bodies as we see fit, as our bodies are our PRIVATE PROPERTY.

This is the final, lethal argument to any legislation about injesting any substance whatsoever. What can and should be governed is our behavior when we are in the vicinity of other members of society, especially in any context where such entities might be harmed should we become negligent in our responsibility to govern our own actions.

Driving is a good example. One can see the logic and the constitutional allowance to ban the injestion of certain substances and then drive. This is contextual legislation, based on outward behavior rather than inner moral imperatives.

Ulter and I have discussed this issue a few times, most of them several years ago when he and I first began talking to one another. I can say about him that he has been one of the most consistent, honest, and genuinely empathetic individuals that I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.

Moreover, I have never heard a single negative observation about his character in five years of observation. Considering the sometimes vicious and confusing vernacular of the net, this is certainly indicative of a rare integrity.

Now.

(Ulter, you can send that free Thermorexin anytime!)

J/K

In all seriousness, Ulter is one of the reasons that these steroid discussion boards have become so successful. Mr. Spellwin deserves his props as well. Managing this kind of thing is not as easy as they make it look, I promise. Ulter's board is, as you may already know, considered to be among the most erudite of steroid discussion forums, specifically because of the way he engineered it from the very beginning.

And to George Spellwin: I congratulate you on the success of your efforts as well.

This board was a landmark in the entire bodybuilding culture. Over the years I have watched as people try to exploit the venue for their own personal agendas, and you have survived many an unfair attack without so much as a whimper. I enjoy the opportunity to share and receive knowledge and opinions in this venue. You deserve a special nod for pioneering a particular vision, and keeping it not only alive, but maintaining an environment conducive to promoting intelligent debate. My hat is off to you.

Even if you're a democrat.
 
I just think our true priorities are not followed. I think the system is bound to fail from the start. There is no clear running document in place that states what the most important issue are in our society from top to bottom that would make our Presidency/government idiot proof. So that they have to take care of the issues that cause the most death to least. I believe if we had a system in place that no one could argue with it would solve all of the wild tangent government tactics we see everyday. A suggestion would be statistical data that started with the most devistating issues of our times and only be able to jump the ladder if a new epidemic arose that surpassed another on the death toll. And start out with the ones that the most inocent people die, not the ones that people have made an eductaed choice. I believe this is the only way noone can have a legitimate gripe. Otherwise as far as I'm corncerned, I feel like Roddy McDowell in the Planet of the apes.
Don't fix the tiny scrape on my arm while my fucking leg is rotting off.

I could have worded this better but, I hope you get the picture.
 
GoinDeep said:
Don't fix the tiny scrape on my arm while my fucking leg is rotting off.

I could have worded this better but, I hope you get the picture.

I understand exactly what you mean and I agree totally.



DIV

:chomp:
 
You'd think as far as we've come, as a people, we'd come to grips with the most pressing issues. The ones we can not deny cause the most harm, and make the government tackle these issues first. A system has to be in place to tackle issues top to bottom. I for one would be all for it and if steroids were the next on the list so be it, fix it. Although I believe if anything involves an educated choice, leave it alone. But if that's what we the people wanted as a majority, please start at the top if your going to start taking people's choice away.
You could swallow a bullet if you choose.
You could walk in front of a speeding train if you choose.
You could take ephedra if you choose.
There are many ways to put yourself in harms way if you choose.
Don't let the government pick and choose.
Which ones cause the most deaths?
Please start there.

Save us from harm we can't control first.
Then start at the top of the list of things we choose that are the most dangerous and work down.

Why haven't we as a people put in place a system to make the government work priorities first?
 
VeteranNewbie88 said:
Just got done watching the news and I have to rant before I explode...I apologize, this is gonna be a babbling mess, but Im too irritated to care so brace yourself...There is a veritable vendetta against steroids as of late....it burns me to no end to be watching the news or reading the paper and just finish finding out how the FBI is declaring our borders insecure, detailing the complete possible reality of a dirty bomb being smuggled into the country, how every single day there are more American/Allied deaths from suicide bombers, how Al Quaeda is now thinking of targeting schools and malls; how AIDS is killing more people than ever, how George Bush is decreasing financial aid resources for the elderly and lowering the quality of healthcare in the US, how cigarettes ultimately kill more people than you can imagine but any 14 year old can smoke one on the steps of the local police dept and its okay, how the FCC, Bush and the religious rite can fine Howard Stern MILLIONS of dollars for airing Fart jokes on the airwaves,.......Fox blurs out a 1 second glimpse of a CARTOON ass on The Family Guy because its deemed obscene and who knows what terrible irreversible damage it could cause the mind of a child, and to top it all off....Bush has allocated 10 million dollars and countless man hours to fight the trafficing and use of "the all powerful, evil king killer of our generation" - Steroids....the priorities of our government disgusts me more and more....


no , the truth is that several of the democratic senators that are huffing and puffing and making a big deal about this are coming up for re-elections..its a to do about nothing..after the elections it will go away..
 
Ulter said:
I think it's a diversion. Creating a furor over steroids, then holding hearing on steroids, then filling the news magazines with stories on steroids, is brilliant from an administration standpoint. People don't know anything about them so you can tell them whatever you want and they'll believe it. After the airing of the ESPN segment with the idiot who reused his needle and never went to a doctor when he got an abcess that led to gangrene and finally amputation, I hear many people in the gym talking about how steroids can you to lose your limbs. ESPN got this guy because he testified before a senate commitee looking into steroid use. Otherwise they'd have never heard of him.
Congressmen giving sound bytes like, "these athletes are going to have their organs fall out and then who is supposed to take care of them". It's a concerted effort.
If all this is going on there is less "airtime" for real news issues that this administration wants to avoid. Don't talk about the cuts in our food stamps, farm subsidies, school lunches for the poor and HUD so we can afford to pay for new houses, food, and farm subsidies in Iraq. Let's talk about "the steroid" problem gripping our nation.


This is without a doubt among the most insightful posts I've ever read on EF, bar none. Ulter, I've resisted you for a long time, but now you're my new hero. :)

(Damn, looks like I'm gonna have to break down and try some glucerell now, lol.)
 
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