what happened to pyramiding?

[mobro]

i know you guys remember the pyramiding cyles. the ones where you start low, increase to your top amount for several weeks, then taper back off. i remember being told that this would allow your body to start back up and recover. i guess we know better now but i was just wondering when all that changed or do some of you guys still do a form of this?

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Frontloading got popular because people saw more gains sooner, and then evidence was put out that showed that tapering off was useless. So starting and ending low was just phased out, in an unrelated couple of events. Therefore, pyramiding was basically dead....

 

[mobro]

i guess that explains it pretty wel. thank you sir. planning to frontload myself this time. how effective is frontloading e_q? by experience or from those that have, do the noticable gains from E_Q begin sooner? and if so does anybody have an example of frontloading E_Q to reach the equivalent of 500 ew?

 

[Nelson Montana]

I like the idea of pyramiding. It makes sense. You can tweak it by adding some dbol up front to get some "instant" results and as you taper, tip the balance to a more anabolic oral such as winstrol, prim or var. That's the basis of my "Perfect Cycle" in 'BOTTOM LINE BODYBUILDING."

 

[mobro]

that kind of surprised me Nelson. i would have thought you would have been on the "shorter cycles and any amount causes shutdown" side of this topic. would you both mind making a further argument in your case?

by the way, respect both of your professional differences to this thread. very profesional difference of opinions without a cross word. respectable

 

[txbondsman]

I feel funny weighing in after bros with the experience as the former posts, but I do have one thing to add. I believe the 1/2 lifes were checked/monitored more closely, whatever, and the new data wasn't condusive to the pyramiding that everyone was doing back in the 70's and 80's...

 

[Powerbuilder333]

I guess I still do a half pyramid. Start with moderate doseages and increase it as the cycle progresses. I call it ramping though i.e. I'll ramp up the doseages to continue the gains. I hit my peak doseages a couple weeks before a meet and hold steady untill competition day, then immediately drop all orals, and tren.

 

[Nelson Montana]

that kind of surprised me Nelson. i would have thought you would have been on the "shorter cycles and any amount causes shutdown" side of this topic. would you both mind making a further argument in your case?

by the way, respect both of your professional differences to this thread. very profesional difference of opinions without a cross word. respectable

I do prefer shorter cycles if your goal is to use anabolics to enhance your training as opposed to being "a guy on juice." Anyone that goes off for just a month or "bridges" is just kidding himself IMO, he might as well accept that he's always one. But even with a 6 weeker, you can pyramid. The first week is when you're most responsive (even if the effects aren't noticable) so why saturate your receptors? Any addition of androgen is going to send you into an anabolic state. After a couple of weeks you can turn it up. And by the last week, you can prepar your body for landing by lowering the androgen but keeping protein retention (anabolism) hig with shorter acting non aromatizing orals. It's more subtle and requires more nuance and attention to detail but it can prevent 99% of the side effects and consequential problems that a lot of bros experience.

 

[mobro]

i can see that point. but doesn't frontloadind allow you to see gains quicker? but from what you are saying, that is when the body is most responsive, yet lower doses do not produce the effects as soon.
for the record i don't have enough expereince either way. i am considering frontloading because of time restraints in opportunities to run a cylce.