What did John Walker Lindh do wrong?

[Immortal Juicer]

He believed strongly in the Islamic religion. So much so, that he was willing to leave the luxuries of the US and travel to Afganistan so that he can live in a society he believes is right. He did not leave the US because he hated the way we lived. There are very few people that believe in their religion that deeply.

Freedom of religious choice despite being a minority is one of the reasons we left Britian and fought for independence. It is one of the foundations of our country.


I think John Walker's strong convictions led him to the wrong place at he very wrong time, and he got in way, way over his head, very, very fast.

I think the world of shit that his beliefs unfortunately caused him to end up in over the past 9 months is more than enough punishment than he deserves.

I know there are other opinions and I want to know why people think he deserves to be punished.

 

[the nature boy]

\
I think John Walker's strong convictions led him to the wrong place at he very wrong time, and he got in way, way over his head, very, very fast.

bro you can say that again.

his situation, no matter how confounding it is, is very very unique. do you put your God over your Country?

I aint' touching this topic because it's a tough one.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Re: Re: What did John Walker Lindh do wrong?

his situation, no matter how confounding it is, is very very unique. do you put your God over your Country?

Our forefathers did when they decided to leave Britian and fight for independence. John Walker did not choose to go to war or fight against anyone, including the US. He was forced to either fight against the NA, or die, when the battle came to him.

 

[JohnyJuice]

Re: Re: Re: What did John Walker Lindh do wrong?

John Walker did not choose to go to war or fight against anyone, including the US. He was forced to either fight against the NA, or die, when the battle came to him.

So what does that tell you about those he called his "brothers"?

Fuck him. He new what was going on over there. He saw his smelly rag head friends killing and pillaging for the fun of it. He was cool with it. He joined them. Then we stepped in and they had their asses handed to them. Fuck that little faggot. Period the end.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What did John Walker Lindh do wrong?

So what does that tell you about those he called his "brothers"?

Fuck him. He new what was going on over there. He saw his smelly rag head friends killing and pillaging for the fun of it. He was cool with it. He joined them. Then we stepped in and they had their asses handed to them. Fuck that little faggot. Period the end.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Its always people like this that have absolutely no fucking clue what is going on that think we should kill him.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Bump for some more opinions.

 

[saint808]

well wasn't he a us citizen when he was fighting against the us? i think they call that treason.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

well wasn't he a us citizen when he was fighting against the us? i think they call that treason.

He was a citizen but he was fighting with the Taliban against the Northern Alliance in defense of Afganistan. Prior to 9/11 the Taliban was more of an ally to the US than the NA govts.

Treason is when someone sells or gives national secrets to an enemy, such as when that mole was selling russia names of US undercover agents. That is some serious shit and anyone found guilty of that should be, and is, executed immediately.

 

[The Whole F/N Show]

I believe fighting with someone the US declared war on is considered treason.

 

[Bigsatan13]

well wasn't he a us citizen when he was fighting against the us? i think they call that treason.

You got that right! I think we should round up 6500 towel heads and even the score. Better yet just make a sheet of glass out of that desert and start drilling for our oil!

 

[Prometheus]

as I understand it, he voluntarily participated in combat against US forces. whatever the motivation, that seems like treason.

 

[The Shadow]

He believed strongly in the Islamic religion. So much so, that he was willing to leave the luxuries of the US and travel to Afganistan so that he can live in a society he believes is right. He did not leave the US because he hated the way we lived. There are very few people that believe in their religion that deeply.

Freedom of religious choice despite being a minority is one of the reasons we left Britian and fought for independence. It is one of the foundations of our country.


I think John Walker's strong convictions led him to the wrong place at he very wrong time, and he got in way, way over his head, very, very fast.

I think the world of shit that his beliefs unfortunately caused him to end up in over the past 9 months is more than enough punishment than he deserves.

I know there are other opinions and I want to know why people think he deserves to be punished.

Once he picked up a weapon and joined a foreign army - he forfeited all US rights. He should be treated as such.

 

[WODIN]

Freedom of religious choice despite being a minority is one of the reasons we left Britian and fought for independence. It is one of the foundations of our country.

While many Americans believe this it is a myth that the founders of our country left Britan to evade religous persicution. The Pilgrims left England and went to Holland were they're more open about religous beliefs than any country.

They left holland for here because of 1. They didn't want those damn danes corrupting there kids with catholicism or paganism and 2. Money.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

I believe fighting with someone the US declared war on is considered treason.

The US hasnt declared war on anyone.


He was fighting in Afganistan against the NA. 9/11 had happened and it was known that we were supporting the NA, but we didnt officially have any troops over there, only CIA operatives.

The best thing would have been for him to leave Afganistan after 9/11 but its not like he could have just grabbed the next bus to California. He didnt go to Afgainstan because he had something against the US. He wanted to live in a society that was more like the Koran. He truly believed in Islam, enough that he was willing to leave the luxuries of America and move to the Middle East.


Let me say again, my beliefs are based on my knowledge of his situation and his actions in Afganistan. If it turns out he had planned to committ terrorist acts against the US, fuck him, put him in the same cell as Mussaui. Now it looks like he got in way over his head trying to do what he believed was religiously right. I respect anyone with that strong personal religious convictions as long as they do not impose their beliefs on others or, of course, hurt others in the name of their religion.

As I understand it, they found him shaking in the corner of the basement in the jail which the CIA operative was killed. Soldiers, warlords, and terrorists are much more threatening than some religious kid, scared shitless, hiding in the corner.

It looks like John Ashcroft wants to use Lindh as a scapegoat because we have not found any of the real threats:

"Fuck bin Laden, Omar, or any of the Saudi millionaires that made financial donations to al-queda, Lindh is the real bad guy"


That is fucked up.

 

[KAYNE]

I.J.

WHY DONT YOU JUST GO ON OVER TO AFG. AND HELP FIGHT WITH THE TALIBAN AND FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU WHEN YOU ARE CAUGHT. IF NOT, JUST MAKE SOME DONATIONS TO HIS DEFENSE FUND TO TRY TO HELP THE LITTLE PRICK TREASONOUS BASTARD. I HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL.


KAYNE

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Re: Re: What did John Walker Lindh do wrong?

Once he picked up a weapon and joined a foreign army - he forfeited all US rights. He should be treated as such.

If so, then why are we trying him in a US criminal court, and respecting all of his constitutional rights?

He is hurting the US and costing the US more by us putting him on trial and making him have the rights he pretty much gave up than he ever did in Afganistan.

I think you have a good point and he should be treated like the other prisoners in Cuba, put on trial if he was a leader, or set free in Afganistan if he was not a leader or high ranking official.

Kick him out in Afganistan and exile his ass.

I doubt he would argue with that.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

I.J.

WHY DONT YOU JUST GO ON OVER TO AFG. AND HELP FIGHT WITH THE TALIBAN AND FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU WHEN YOU ARE CAUGHT. IF NOT, JUST MAKE SOME DONATIONS TO HIS DEFENSE FUND TO TRY TO HELP THE LITTLE PRICK TREASONOUS BASTARD. I HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL.


KAYNE

I've explained how I've come to my beliefs.

Why dont you explain why you hope the "little prick treasonous bastard" burns in hell.

And try to include some logical reasons, not just because you are pissed.

 

[KAYNE]

THE GUY IS A U.S. CITIZEN. BORN AND RAISED HERE. HIS PARENTS ARE HERE. HE COMMITTED TREASON BY COMMITTING TO FIGHT WITH THE TALIBAN. THATS LOGIC ENOUGH.


KAYNE

 

[Immortal Juicer]

THE GUY IS A U.S. CITIZEN. BORN AND RAISED HERE. HIS PARENTS ARE HERE. HE COMMITTED TREASON BY COMMITTING TO FIGHT WITH THE TALIBAN. THATS LOGIC ENOUGH.


KAYNE

Treson isnt even one of the charges against him.

Treason is when someone sells or gives national secrets to an enemy, such as when that mole was selling russia names of US undercover agents. That is some serious shit and anyone found guilty of that should be, and is, executed immediately.

 

[KAYNE]

"the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family"


THAT WOULD BE TREASON. DID HE NOT COMMIT THIS CRIME???


KAYNE

 

[Immortal Juicer]

"the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family"


THAT WOULD BE TREASON. DID HE NOT COMMIT THIS CRIME???


KAYNE

No. He never attempted to overthow the govt, or kill or injure any US citizen. Thats why he isnt being charged with treason.

 

[VicTusDeuS]

It's people with these liberal beliefs that keep us living everyday in fear of another suicide bombing here in the US. Turn the middle east into a sheet of glass- set an example and we will never be fucked with again.
A towel head wants to blow himself up here. Fine...We'll kill his family, his friends and his unborn grandchildren. Maybe the other towelheads will think twice before killing themselves in the name of that fucked up religion....

He believed strongly in the Islamic religion. So much so, that he was willing to leave the luxuries of the US and travel to Afganistan so that he can live in a society he believes is right. He did not leave the US because he hated the way we lived. There are very few people that believe in their religion that deeply.

Freedom of religious choice despite being a minority is one of the reasons we left Britian and fought for independence. It is one of the foundations of our country.


I think John Walker's strong convictions led him to the wrong place at he very wrong time, and he got in way, way over his head, very, very fast.

I think the world of shit that his beliefs unfortunately caused him to end up in over the past 9 months is more than enough punishment than he deserves.

I know there are other opinions and I want to know why people think he deserves to be punished.

 

[VicTusDeuS]

As for JWL- He joined the taliban before 9/11. There is much evidence available that prooves he knew of the terrorist attacks a month before they happened. He did nothing to notify anyone..
That makes him an accomplice to the crime...Treason...Kill Him

 

[Immortal Juicer]

As for JWL- He joined the taliban before 9/11. There is much evidence available that prooves he knew of the terrorist attacks a month before they happened. He did nothing to notify anyone..
That makes him an accomplice to the crime...Treason...Kill Him

Bro, I definately do not have liberal beliefs. I think its fucked up that we are even wasting our time, money, and resources prosecuting some kid that didnt have anything to do with it anyway. We havent caught ANY of al-queda's top leaders, but we do have some top Taliban officials in Cuba and here we are dedicating all these DA's, Marshal's, and other law enforcement officials to "The American Taliban." A catchy Time magazine cover and all the dumb fucks think he is the cause of 9/11. And our govt officials have to quench all these ignorant, blood thirsty, idiots who cant think for themselves and actually believe that JWL is a danger to the US.

Wake the fuck up.

He didnt "join" the Taliban like you join the boy scouts or something. He was just in Afganistan trying to live in a society that was most like the teachings in the Koran.

He didnt know anything about the 9/11 attacks either. Hell, the fucking HIJACKERS didnt even know it was a suicide mission when they got on the plane. Do you really think bin Laden would let some dipshit white kid, who had been in the middle east less than a year, in on the plan? I bet you think GWB knew enough prior to 9/11 that he actually could have done anything to prevent it.

All this "nuke the middle east" shit is exactly why we have all these problems - people are to either too dumb, or too lazy to actually understand WHY 9/11 happened and instead have the die hard belief that nuking the middle east is the answer to anything.

I hate even giving my personal opinion on here, I'd rather just ask some questions and see if others find different answers than me, but fuck, this is pathetic.

Goddamn, use your fuckin heads for two seconds.

 

[VicTusDeuS]

All the Hijackers knew there was going to be an attack on the US just as JWL did...They all knew, they just didn't know what thier exact mission was. It's not like they woe up one day and all decided to board a plane with box cutters. They were all trained in this year long plan to do something...They all knew something was going to happen...Just as JWL did.

 

[slickdadd]

All the Hijackers knew there was going to be an attack on the US just as JWL did...They all knew, they just didn't know what thier exact mission was. It's not like they woe up one day and all decided to board a plane with box cutters. They were all trained in this year long plan to do something...They all knew something was going to happen...Just as JWL did.

Well technically the u.s. government did too. The articles coming to surface in the past few weeks show that bin laden had warned the us about future attacks, but if its that vague there isn't much that can be done, so im not sure what you exactly expect. The U.S. probably hears zillions of threats. One more from a religious fanatic in the middle east isn't going to get the President's attention to take action to prevent it more so then others. Thats why it worked, because it was well planned out. In such that it was not known what was going to happen. You people act like you are perfect. Was he going to send a pidgeon to george bush with a note. I'm sure they are in close contact.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

All the Hijackers knew there was going to be an attack on the US just as JWL did...They all knew, they just didn't know what thier exact mission was. It's not like they woe up one day and all decided to board a plane with box cutters. They were all trained in this year long plan to do something...They all knew something was going to happen...Just as JWL did.

Where are you getting this shit from? JWL was not with al-queda, he was with the Taliban.

Look at what it took for bin Laden and al-queda to pull off the military style attack on the WTC. Bin Laden communicated with satellite phones, had a doctor at his side 24/7 and all the top operatives had cosmetic surgery done frequently to conveal their identies.

All that precaution and planning and you actually believe they woudl let an american white boy in on the plan?

 

[VicTusDeuS]

I really don't give a fuck either way. As long as he is away from society all the better for the rest of us. You gotta admit that kid isnt the brightest crayon in the box just cause he joined that fucked up religion anyway...

 

[Immortal Juicer]

I really don't give a fuck either way. As long as he is away from society all the better for the rest of us. You gotta admit that kid isnt the brightest crayon in the box just cause he joined that fucked up religion anyway...

congradulations on showing everyone how ignorant you really are.

 

[VicTusDeuS]

More power to ya if you think im ignorant for calling a religion that glorifies killing yourself and taking out innocent people fucked up. Being a martyr is one of the most respectable thing a muslim can do in their religion. These people have no regard for innocent lives and fight back by killing people that have never done anything to them. The only ignorant people are the ones that think what happens in Israel cannot happen here. My words are spoken from fear of one day having to walk through a crowded area and then be blown to pieces because of some stinky fuck that wants to kill. Our government does anything in its power to keep us from panic. When they themselves come out and say that it is inevitable we will be attacked again you know its almost certain. I'll change my attitude when you can guarantee no more innocent American lives will be lost because of these fucks. Until that time I have to be judgmental and watch my own back for my own good.

 

[the nature boy]

wow you've done some real research there on the muslim religion. you should write a book with all that knowledge.

 

[casavant]

Freedom of religious choice despite being a minority is one of the reasons we left Britian and fought for independence. It is one of the foundations of our country.

Yes, and many of the colonists were KILLED. I agree that Lindh demonstrated extraordinary faithfulness to his religion. Unfortunately, his version of that religion most likely involved violence towards the country from which he came. I'm not necessarily advocating the death penalty for him, but as the saying goes, "You play, you pay."- for lack of better words.

 

[bwood]

He was just in Afganistan trying to live in a society that was most like the teachings in the Koran.

there you have it...

not guilty... by reason of insanity...

 

[Immortal Juicer]

More power to ya if you think im ignorant for calling a religion that glorifies killing yourself and taking out innocent people fucked up. Being a martyr is one of the most respectable thing a muslim can do in their religion. These people have no regard for innocent lives and fight back by killing people that have never done anything to them. The only ignorant people are the ones that think what happens in Israel cannot happen here. My words are spoken from fear of one day having to walk through a crowded area and then be blown to pieces because of some stinky fuck that wants to kill. Our government does anything in its power to keep us from panic. When they themselves come out and say that it is inevitable we will be attacked again you know its almost certain. I'll change my attitude when you can guarantee no more innocent American lives will be lost because of these fucks. Until that time I have to be judgmental and watch my own back for my own good.

Islam does not call for killing innocent people. If that was he plan, they could have killed innocent people in the middle east or anywhere else in the world.

If you would stop and read an issue of Time or Newsweek you would have a better understanding about this conflict.

I sure as hell dont know everything, but I do have a decent grasp of why whats happening is happening.

This war is not over religion. Its not over freedom. And its not good vs. evil.

Check it out. I think you will find it interesting.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Re: Re: What did John Walker Lindh do wrong?

Yes, and many of the colonists were KILLED. I agree that Lindh demonstrated extraordinary faithfulness to his religion. Unfortunately, his version of that religion most likely involved violence towards the country from which he came. I'm not necessarily advocating the death penalty for him, but as the saying goes, "You play, you pay."- for lack of better words.

His "version" isnt any different than the millions of Muslims in America today.

Muslims do not hate us because we are "free." They hate us because of our foreign policy in the middle east and our exorbodant consumption of oil.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

And if you think I'm standing up for the Taliban like some bleeding heart liberal, go post a reply in my 9/11 prevention thread and try to make some kind of constructive contribution.

I'm brainstorming ways to fuck them up and make sure it doesnt happen again and everyone else is bitchin about a from religions kid california.

9/11 is over. It happened. We got hit bad.

Now lets make sure it doesnt happen ever again.

Go Jo!!

 

[casavant]

And if you think I'm standing up for the Taliban like some bleeding heart liberal, go post a reply in my 9/11 prevention thread and try to make some kind of constructive contribution.

I'm brainstorming ways to fuck them up and make sure it doesnt happen again and everyone else is bitchin about a from religions kid california.

9/11 is over. It happened. We got hit bad.

Now lets make sure it doesnt happen ever again.

Go Jo!!

I respect your views. I'm not coming from the same angle as VictusDeus, to be certain.

What do you think we should do with the guy, though? He is an American that went to fight with an organization that was closely connected to al Quaeda. He was captured with a bunch of other fighters. A CIA agent was also killed in this incident as well.

What should be done with him and what is acceptable to the American people?

 

[Immortal Juicer]

I respect your views. I'm not coming from the same angle as VictusDeus, to be certain.

What do you think we should do with the guy, though? He is an American that went to fight with an organization that was closely connected to al Quaeda. He was captured with a bunch of other fighters. A CIA agent was also killed in this incident as well.

What should be done with him and what is acceptable to the American people?

I understand where you are coming from. Remember, he did not to to Afganistan to fight against anyone. He went there to live in a society that was most like the teachings in the Koran. He didnt hate America. He didnt even protest anything when he was here. Instead of protesting a system he did not believe in, he simply left.

Prior to 9/11, the US was allies with the Taliban. Does that make us allies with al-queda supporters? The US is allied with Saudi Arabia and if any country supports al-Queda, its Saudi Arabia. Rememer 15 of the hijackers were Saudi and none were Afgan.

Mike Spann getting killed is a tragedy. He is a true american hero. He took an extrememly dangerous job, much more dangerous than special forces in Afgan now. He was highly trained and he knew the danger in his assignment. There were no US soldiers in Afgan when the riot broke out. For all they knew, it was Taliban against NA. From what I understand, JWL was found hiding and crying in the basement of the prison when the riot was over.

I am willing to bet my life that if JWL had the options of either staying in Afgan post 9/11 and fighting, or getting on the next flight home he would have been long gone.

Look at him. That kid is not a soldier.

 

[casavant]

Good post.

I'm not sure what exactly he would have done, given the chance. Maybe even he doesn't.

It will be interesting to see what the courts decide.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Good post.

I'm not sure what exactly he would have done, given the chance. Maybe even he doesn't.

It will be interesting to see what the courts decide.

Thanks.

I personally think the hell he has had to go through over the past 6 months is punishment enough. Fuck, blindfolded, tied down, and stuck in a metal cell for three days, being held captive in that prison when the riot went down - that was not some little Attica style riot either, and God knows what else he was subjected to.

I think it is same to say he has learned his lesson.

If I had a son, I'd tell him: "see son, thats why you choose your friends wisely."

I cant think of a much better example.

 

[casavant]

Thanks.

I personally think the hell he has had to go through over the past 6 months is punishment enough. Fuck, blindfolded, tied down, and stuck in a metal cell for three days, being held captive in that prison when the riot went down - that was not some little Attica style riot either, and God knows what else he was subjected to.

I think it is same to say he has learned his lesson.

If I had a son, I'd tell him: "see son, thats why you choose your friends wisely."

I cant think of a much better example.

No problem.

I am out for the weekend. Have a good and safe one.

Take 'er easy.

 

[CAGED whiteman]

the goverments case is weak but we need to set an example of this fool. stupid crazy muslims.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

the goverments case is weak but we need to set an example of this fool. stupid crazy muslims.

There are more "stupid crazy muslims" in the world than Christians. Dont live in a bubble thinking the whole world is like the US - it isnt.

 

[bwood]

There are more "stupid crazy muslims" in the world than Christians. Dont live in a bubble thinking the whole world is like the US - it isnt.

that's right...we had john wayne...

just wouldna been the same if
he was a hindu...