What am I missing in my diet?

[RussianBull]

Can anyone give me some advice on my diet? I basically eat the same everyday. I think it looks good, but I got my BF checked yesterday and it was only 12%. I want to get down to 7 or 8.

7 AM - 50g protein powder w/ PB & oatmeal.
10 AM - 3 egg whites w/ turkey
1 PM - 3 grilled chicken breasts w/ vegetables
3 PM - 35g protein shake
5 PM - Protein bar (Detour or Tri O Plex)
8 PM - Turkey or grilled chicken w/ a salad

On paper, it looks pretty good to me. But I'm still not getting the results I want. I also take a xenadrine in the morning and another before my workout.

 

[juve]

1)Protein bar has to go - no disputes about it
2)Where are the fats? Add flax/fish oils primarily, also supplement with extra virgin olive oil.
As far as protein and carb choices (oats + salads, I'm assuming green leafy veggies) you're gppd.

 

[sawastea]

Bump on Juve!

You want to see something sad?

Chef O'Jays Bars Tested
Detour Bars Tested

 

[RussianBull]

The Detour Bars look pretty close but the Tri O bars are way off. Do you guys recommend another decent tasting bar or should I just get rid of the bars altogether?

 

[avenirup]

The Detour Bars look pretty close but the Tri O bars are way off. Do you guys recommend another decent tasting bar or should I just get rid of the bars altogether?

I would get rid of the bars and stick to clean food or another protein shake...As Juve explained you need some good fats in that diet-buy some spectrum fish oil caps or flax oil....If the 50g of protein in the shake makes you stomach blaahhh mix Twin Labs Super Enzyme with it and you should have no problem...Good Luck What kind of protein shake do you use?

 

[avenirup]

On second look, I actually would switch you 8:00 meal with you 5:00 meal--have a protein shake at 8 and the turkey chicken salad at 5...Just my opinion...

 

[Dedicated247]

whats your training and cardio look like bro....maybe diet isnt the culprit?

 

[RussianBull]

Thanks for the advice. Right now I'm using Isopure protein powder. Does it matter when I take the flax oil during the day?

 

[RussianBull]

I do different types of cardio. I switch it up between interval running, eliptical machines and the stairmaster. I do a minimum of 20 minutes a day. I was only doing it 4 times and week and I'm gonna step it up to 6 times a week.

I hit the weights 5 days a week too.

MON - Shoulders
Tues - Back/Bis
Wed - Legs
Thur - Chest/Tris
Fri - OFF
Sat - Bis/Tris
Sun - Just cardio

I take an ab class on Tues/Thurs and do 5 sets of one exercise of abs every other day of the week.

 

[avenirup]

I do different types of cardio. I switch it up between interval running, eliptical machines and the stairmaster. I do a minimum of 20 minutes a day. I was only doing it 4 times and week and I'm gonna step it up to 6 times a week.

I hit the weights 5 days a week too.

MON - Shoulders
Tues - Back/Bis
Wed - Legs
Thur - Chest/Tris
Fri - OFF
Sat - Bis/Tris
Sun - Just cardio

I take an ab class on Tues/Thurs and do 5 sets of one exercise of abs every other day of the week.

I will only comment on your cardio....up that shit bro..up it...45-60 or do some HIIT...that is what will get that BF down..Upping it to 6 times a week was a good idea too..

Question 1: They have ab classes?? - I believe Muscle Mag (??? I think) put out a small ab book a few years ago--try and find it-maybe on amazon--it is pretty good...Probably costs a lot less than the ab classes...
Question 2: Is it Russian Bull or Russian Bear who makes those weird commercials for its protein shake??

 

[RussianBull]

They have ab classes at my gym twice a week. They're free to take. It mostly girls in the class which makes it even better.

What type of HIIT do you guys recommend? I just starting doing 30 second sprints on the treadmill and the eliptical with minute and a half intervals between each sprint. I don't think I could do that longer than 20-30 minutes.

 

[Burning_Inside]

Bump on Juve!

You want to see something sad?

Chef O'Jays Bars Tested
Detour Bars Tested

wow tri-o-plex bars got friggin owned

 

[Deleted member 33117]

I'm with juve. The bars have to go. Also your diet is extremely difficient in EFA's as well as green veggies. My rule is one ibs of raw green veggies every day for extremely active individuals. You're also taking in entire too many protien shakes. Stick with real food. I personally do not even drink post-workout drinks anymore. I'm not convinced that a whey/dextrose shake will yield anabolic gains over a long period of time, dispite short-term studies showing that it increases protien sythesis if taken post workout, due to the fact taht it will decrease insulin sensitivity, and if done for long periods of time (6 months or more), it may actually decrease your net gains.

 

[juve]

dispite short-term studies showing that it increases protien sythesis if taken post workout, due to the fact taht it will decrease insulin sensitivity, and if done for long periods of time (6 months or more), it may actually decrease your net gains.

fucken' ditto, finally lore of science eventually reaches this board
duh...


BTW, you can now expect 4353476 posts asking to verify the claim with empirical data.............with interpretation, woooweeeeeeeee, haha

 

[Deleted member 33117]

juve data is simple to provide. Hundreds of studies have shown that taking in high gi carbs decreases insulin sensitivity in muscle tissue. Although there have been no long term studies to measure the gains, or lack there off, of using high gi post workout drinks, and I suspect no suppliment company would sponsor one, since logic would dictate a reasonable chance of it showing less gains after a year or more than the control group.

 

[mcbruiser]

I'm not convinced that a whey/dextrose shake will yield anabolic gains over a long period of time, dispite short-term studies showing that it increases protien sythesis if taken post workout, due to the fact taht it will decrease insulin sensitivity, and if done for long periods of time (6 months or more), it may actually decrease your net gains.

this is very interesting.

was anything mentioned regarding how much dextrose was taken post-wo?

is this phenomenon of decreasing insulin sensitivity (or increasing insulin resistance) limited to post-workout only? any why only in the muscles and not in body-fat? or anytime when dextrose is consumed?

what exactly does logic dictate in terms of long-term effects? diabetes?

please enlighten me.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

mcbruiser, subjecting insulin receptors in muscle tissue to high insulin levels increases their insulin resistance, there is no reason to suggest that using it post work out would lessen the effect. If anything it would increase this tendancy, since they are being saturated more with insulin in this environment. Diabetes is a possible effect, but I was refering to reduced gains in muscle mass (since we are talking about bodybuilders, many of who do not care that much about their health), due to increased insulin resistance.

 

[mcbruiser]

mcbruiser, subjecting insulin receptors in muscle tissue to high insulin levels increases their insulin resistance, there is no reason to suggest that using it post work out would lessen the effect. If anything it would increase this tendancy, since they are being saturated more with insulin in this environment. Diabetes is a possible effect, but I was refering to reduced gains in muscle mass (since we are talking about bodybuilders, many of who do not care that much about their health), due to increased insulin resistance.

because all foods convert to glucose (and hence spike insulin to some degree) this is like saying "the more you eat the smaller your muscles will get", which we know is obviously not true. or am i missing something?

part of me would like to see a few references on this.

granted, too much sugar is definitely not a good thing. for anyone.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

mcbruiser, I said high insulin levels, not ANY insulin (no insulin quickly leads to death, which causes a great deal of muslce wasting). 50 g of dextrose mixed with 30 g of whey, produces insulin levels that are high enough to cause increased insulin resistance. I don't have web sites to link you with. I do not get most of my information from the internet. I study nutrition in college. I'm sitting in a university computer lab at the moment waiting for a class, so I don't have access to any material.

 

[mcbruiser]

thanks for the information. it sounds like you know what you're talking about. i'm guessing that you heard that from a reliable source. if you have time later to post some links, that'd be much appreciated.

so we're talking about high insulin levels. and 50g is enough to promote insulin resistance in myocytes? but not adipocytes? wow. now, if we could just reverse that... he he he.

is this a temporary condition (the resistance)? or can it be restored to normal? if so, how?

what do you recommend then for a post-wo recovery drink? how about 30g whey mixed with 50g multidextrin (which is low GI)?

if this is true, you would think it would be all over the boards. you would think everyone would know about this. why then does everyone seem to advocate taking a 2:1 ratio of dextrose to protein post-wo?

one more thing... i think the reason most people take dextrose while working out is so that there's an abundance of glucose available. if no glucose is available during a high-intensity workout, the body resorts to gluconeogenesis, which is definitely not a good thing for building muscle.

so is it then a no win situation? a catch 22?

either drink dextrose and increase insulin resistance in muscle cells, or don't and face gluconeogenesis.

 

[mcbruiser]

^

 

[mcbruiser]

^

 

[kraze]

i too would like to know what is a good post-workout recovery meal/drink (prefer drink).

 

[mcbruiser]

thanks for the information. it sounds like you know what you're talking about. i'm guessing that you heard that from a reliable source. if you have time later to post some links, that'd be much appreciated.

so we're talking about high insulin levels. and 50g is enough to promote insulin resistance in myocytes? but not adipocytes? wow. now, if we could just reverse that... he he he.

is this a temporary condition (the resistance)? or can it be restored to normal? if so, how?

what do you recommend then for a post-wo recovery drink? how about 30g whey mixed with 50g multidextrin (which is low GI)?

if this is true, you would think it would be all over the boards. you would think everyone would know about this. why then does everyone seem to advocate taking a 2:1 ratio of dextrose to protein post-wo?

one more thing... i think the reason most people take dextrose while working out is so that there's an abundance of glucose available. if no glucose is available during a high-intensity workout, the body resorts to gluconeogenesis, which is definitely not a good thing for building muscle.

so is it then a no win situation? a catch 22?

either drink dextrose and increase insulin resistance in muscle cells, or don't and face gluconeogenesis.

anyone??

 

[juve]

juve data is simple to provide. Hundreds of studies have shown that taking in high gi carbs decreases insulin sensitivity in muscle tissue. Although there have been no long term studies to measure the gains, or lack there off, of using high gi post workout drinks, and I suspect no suppliment company would sponsor one, since logic would dictate a reasonable chance of it showing less gains after a year or more than the control group.

I hope you realize in my preceding post I was agreeing with, hence the ditto

I was just being sarcastic since people on this board tend to demand scientific proof to dietary approach - half the people only reads 2 last lines of the abstract, another half complains that they need it in 'plain english'. Why ask for empirical studies then?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

juve, I knew you were in agreement. I was pointing out the problem of providing the proper data for those people.

mcbruiser, yes, unfortunately adipose tissue is very insulin sensitive, and its difficult to signifigantly reduce that sensitivity. I do not recomend a post workout drink. Personally, I am not a suppliment user (unless one considers vitamins and flax oil to be suppliments). I drink oil post workout (a mix of olive oil and flax oil). In any event, you are correct, preworkout nutrition is more important than post workout nutrition. Where did you get infromation stating that maltodextrin (I'm assuming multidextrin was a typo) is now GI? Its extremely high GI. I don't think most of the people out there who talk about GI have ever actually looked at a comprehensive chart showing the GI's of a large number of foods.

 

[mcbruiser]

adipose tissue is very insulin sensitive, and its difficult to signifigantly reduce that sensitivity.

do you have any comments about r-ALA in its claim to increase insulin sensitivity in muscle tissue? there seems to be some controversy surrounding this claim.

In any event, you are correct, preworkout nutrition is more important than post workout nutrition.

i don't think i made this statement, did i? if so, i don't think i meant to. i probably meant to say something about the importance of timing regarding carb intake.

Where did you get infromation stating that maltodextrin (I'm assuming multidextrin was a typo) is now GI? Its extremely high GI. I don't think most of the people out there who talk about GI have ever actually looked at a comprehensive chart showing the GI's of a large number of foods.

i am under the impression that maltodextrin is mostly composed of corn starch. also, the manufacturer where i bought it said it is low GI, although they also said it hasn't been tested. its purpose is as a complex carb supplement, so logic tells me it should be low. you're saying it's high? how high? it can't be anywhere near as high as dextrose, for example.

do you (or anyone else) have any comments about the rest of my questions (restated below)?

also, i'd still really like to see some references regarding high insulin levels increasing insulin resistance in myocytes (when you have time).

is this a temporary condition (the resistance)? or can it be restored to normal? if so, how?

if this is true, you would think it would be all over the boards. you would think everyone would know about this. why then does everyone seem to advocate taking a 2:1 ratio of dextrose to protein post-wo?

one more thing... i think the reason most people take dextrose while working out is so that there's an abundance of glucose available. if no glucose is available during a high-intensity workout, the body resorts to gluconeogenesis, which is definitely not a good thing for building muscle.

so is it then a no win situation? a catch 22?

either drink dextrose and increase insulin resistance in muscle cells, or don't and face gluconeogenesis.

 

[mcbruiser]

^

 

[juve]

also, i'd still really like to see some references regarding high insulin levels increasing insulin resistance in myocytes (when you have time).

Looks like you have time bumping for your questions, so here goes:
full online texts/publications:
http://www.worldhealthnews.harvard.edu/
http://www.smi.stanford.edu/pubs/index.html
www.biomedcentral.com
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed
jama.ama-assn.org/



there, have a blast. why does everyone think in here that it is an obligation of others to provide this kind of verification - it is a superfluous and ungratifying effort on the part of the poster in question. if you're bent on seeking validity to anyone's argument - do your own fucken research

 

[mcbruiser]

i will research this. thanks for the links.

 

[avenirup]

also taking in entire too many protien shakes. Stick with real food

To Russian Bull:

Real food is always better but sometimes it is very hard to get 50g of protein at one sitting without making yourself sick....2 protein shakes a day are fine in my opinion. Long term, like Body said is not good for you, but long term on Finaplex isn't either. After you reached your goals, start tyring to add more real food into your diet....Good Luck...

 

[bigdho]

Bro What was your original question?...What are you missing in your diet?....
We have strayed from the point. Before anyone can give you any real advise we have to know your stats and what your goals are.....I think this is getting way over complicated.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

mcbruiser, maltodextrin was tested, for the frist time, several years ago. Its almost as high as dextrose, and scores much higher than white bread. If I recall its somewhere between 130 and 140 GI.

Juve gave you interesting sites to answer questions. As far as the 2:1 dextrose to protien ratio popularity... my answer is, "Becuase it looks like a good number". Personally I don't believe in the practice.

 

[mcbruiser]

BodyByFinaplix, thanks for the info. I don't really want to hijack this thread any more than I already have.. unless other people are interested in this, also, so if you have any response maybe you should PM me.

There is so much information here, I just wish I could get fact sorted from fiction. There's so much contradiction. I suppose I really should consult with a dietitian.

Do you remember who tested the multodextrin? I can't find it in the database at glycemicindex.com, nor corn starch which is what I was told in the main ingrediant. It doesn't make sense to me that it has a high GI when it is being marketed as complex carbs and only raising blood glucose an insiginificant amount.

Maybe I should purchase one of those diabetic blood testing kits and do my own first-hand research.

I am still researching your statement about high insulin levels increasing insulin resistance in muscle tissue. I will say that I am currently using 40g dextrose and 60g protein (arbitrary numbers) in my workout drink and have only lost body fat so far.

Do you advocate any sort of pre-workout drink? How do you avoid gluconeogenesis?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

My workouts are short and intense. They burn a minimal amount of glucose, and much less than what my muscle tissue has stored. Since I stay in keto 3 days, followed by a carb loading day, they hold excess glucose for a day or two (via the supercompensation effect from depleting and then loading carbs), which gives me more than enough to make it through my workouts, and continue to see gains. My pre workout "drink" is usually a steak with a little olive oil and flax oil.