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We should re-write history to be 'fair' (WTC Statue)

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Here is an article for you to read and make you want to puke. oh yes, is this article from a reputable enough source for you ryanh? should i get a bibliography for this piece for you so you can verify it is correct?...anyways, read on

NEW YORK (AP) - A statue based on the famous photograph of the flag-raising at the World Trade Center site is being criticized because the three white firefighters in the picture have been transformed into one white, one black and one Hispanic.

Some firefighters and their families say the 19-foot bronze is political correctness run amok and an attempt to rewrite history.

The $180,000 sculpture is expected to be erected this spring at the Fire Department's Brooklyn headquarters in tribute to the 343 firefighters killed in the attack. It is based on the Sept. 11 newspaper photo of firefighters raising the American flag on about 20 feet of rubble.

The decision to represent different races was made by the Fire Department, the makers of the statue, and the property-management company that owns the department headquarters building and commissioned the work.

``Given that those who died were of all races and all ethnicities and that the statue was to be symbolic of those sacrifices, ultimately a decision was made to honor no one in particular, but everyone who made the supreme sacrifice,'' Fire Department spokesman Frank Gribbon said.

But Tony Marden of Ladder 165 in Queens called the decision ``an insult to those three guys to put imaginary faces on that statue. It's not a racial thing. That shouldn't even be an issue.''

And Carlo Casoria, who lost his firefighter son, Thomas, said: ``They're rewriting history in order to achieve political correctness.''

The three firefighters in the photo - Dan McWilliams, George Johnson and Billy Eisengrein - declined to comment. But their lawyer, Bill Kelly, said the men are ``disappointed because it's become something that is political as opposed to historical.'' He said he has written to the management company and the department, asking them to stop production of the statue.

But Kevin James, a member of the Vulcan Society, which represents black firefighters, welcomed the design.

``The symbolism is far more important than representing the actual people,'' he said. ``I think the artistic expression of diversity would supersede any concern over factual correctness.''

Of the city's 11,500 firefighters, 2.7 percent are black and 3.2 percent Hispanic, Gribbon said. Twelve of the firefighters who died were black; the number of Hispanic victims was not immediately available.

A clay model of the statue, created by StudioEis in Brooklyn, was unveiled on Dec. 21. Gribbon and studio director Ivan Schwartz said the statue, while based on the photo taken by Tom Franklin of The Record of Bergen County, N.J., was not meant to be an exact replica.

The photo has been likened to the famous 1945 Associated Press photograph of six American fighting men raising the flag at Iwo Jima.

``We were quite shocked that the image was altered,'' said Jennifer Borg, attorney for North Jersey Media Group, which publishes The Record and holds the copyright. The Fire Department sought rights to reproduce the photo, she said, but the company did not sign any agreement.

Gribbon said the department had not received any official complaints about the statue, but John Gilleeny, a retired New York City firefighter who edits an e-mail newsletter about the department, said he has gotten hundreds of e-mails protesting the decision.

``Questions about race or ethnicity played no part in the brave deeds firefighters performed on Sept. 11, and it does a disservice to the memory of the thousands lost on that day to raise such issues,'' said Bruce Ratner, president and chief executive of Forest City Ratner Cos., the management company that is paying for the statue
 
I wonder how open minded the FDNY was back in the day when they chose firefighters.

One of the problems in Chicago that only recently was fixed was the hiring of a racially diverse fire and police department.

http://www.chicagoreporter.com/1990/03-90/0390 Sidebar Black Firefighters.htm

Michael Danzy will never forget the silent treatment he received during his first three years with the Chicago Fire Department. Hired in 1977, he and another fireman, assigned to a different shift, were the first two blacks to work at Engine Company 102, a firehouse on the city's Far North Side.


It frightens me that the color of the men in the statue is an issue, but it is, because of a history of tension.
 
Its bullshit though that they're making it into a politcal issue. Do the flag raisers of the Iwo Jima Memorial have distinguishing marks? No, and if you look at the picture of the flag raising on Mount Surabachi [sp?], you can not make out a damn feature on any of them. As a matter of fact you can only see one guy's face outline, and theres no way of telling what race he was. It was 6 guys coming together to get that heavy ass pole raised.

The statue shouldn't be politcally correct. It should be what it is. 3 firefighters raising the flag. God damn that shit pisses me off.
 
I'm glad there will be different kinds of people in the statue. It represents, and is symbolic of, the tragedy and the people that died.

When we remember, we will remember all of those who suffered and lost.

The symbols in our country shouldn't simply be reminiscent of the white European culture.

The biggest shock to my system was when I left Chicago, known for its European style, Anglo-Saxon, Greco Roman, blah blah blah etc etc architecture....

...and moving to northern California, where more Mexican/Indian/Asian influences were represented.

Lets just say I felt an intense sense of the white male phallus when I returned to Chicago after two years of being away.

All that to say....our symbols, architecture, etc., should be representative of all. If that means the firefighter memorial has a person with Latin or Black features, then so be it.
 
I don't get it....so what shold we do.....lets just say that Hitler commited genocide on blacks and hispanics too...so they don't feel left out......not quite the same I know but essentially its the same idea....rewrite history just to make blacks and hispanics happy.....shit...if it was three black guys or three hispanic guys they wouldn't have changed anything to represent whites.....and you can bet your ass on that....racial equality my ass



:teleport:
 
We should also go and re-do the old historical paintings of the world. We should blacks into the picture of "the last supper". We should also go back and make some of the founding fathers black in the depiction of the signing of the declaration of independence. Strongchick, you make me fucking sick. you and your kind.
 
i dont see the arguement in this.. different people of different ethnic backgrounds DIED trying to save lives.. so why shouldnt all three races be represented??? i mean its not just a memorial for three guys in the f.d., its a memorial for ALL f.d.n.y. workers.

i cannot believe i fucking agree with strongchick.. but i still do.
 
Would everyone please shut the fuck up about race!?! There are real problems in the world, like where is my goddamn oxandrolone at?!??!?!?!?!
 
Frackal said:
Would everyone please shut the fuck up about race!?! There are real problems in the world, like where is my goddamn oxandrolone at?!??!?!?!?!

ummm... uhhhhhh.. my dog ate it?
 
rushx79 said:
i dont see the arguement in this.. different people of different ethnic backgrounds DIED trying to save lives.. so why shouldnt all three races be represented??? i mean its not just a memorial for three guys in the f.d., its a memorial for ALL f.d.n.y. workers.

i cannot believe i fucking agree with strongchick.. but i still do.
I have no problem representing all races. If that is what they wanted to do, they should have made a memorial that wasnt a replica of the picture. That is rewriting history. If it was a statue of three dudes with their arms over each others shoulders, walking side by side (each of a different ethnicity), then that would be great.
 
JohnyJuice said:

I have no problem representing all races. If that is what they wanted to do, they should have made a memorial that wasnt a replica of the picture. That is rewriting history. If it was a statue of three dudes with their arms over each others shoulders, walking side by side (each of a different ethnicity), then that would be great.

i see your point.. but i still think it is better to make it symbolic instead of an exact representation. even though it is an exact representation except for that one moment.
 
Well everyone is entitled to they're own opinion......but I can think of some other times where men were allowed to change history to their benefit.......another thing is politcal correctness is what got us in to this mess...



:teleport:
 
Call me old-fashioned but if a piece of art is supposed to depict an actual event, it should represent the actual individuals involved...to do otherwise is an insult to them. This bit of PC run amuck isn't just a minor adjustment, like the new FDR monument leaving out his omnipresent cigarette holder (that's PC, too, but it's a small thing.) This is taking a real event and fictionalizing it to suit a political objective, however well-meant.

To make the statue more "inclusive", they could add some other firefighters off to the side as observers to the event - that would preserve the historical accuracy while being more inclusive.

Of course, I'm not sure I 100% agree that it needs to be more inclusive to begin with...the notion that some quota-based balance has to be achieved just shows how far we are from a race-neutral society. Some of us look at the original photo and see firefighters, individual human beings. Others see white men first, and anything else second. Therein lies the problem.

It just happens that the three firefighters who were photographed raising the flag were white. If they had happened to be all black, and the statue was changed to make one of them white, can you imagine the furor? Al Sharpton would have to be sedated! Besides, the statue's still not 100% inclusive...all the figures are still men. There are female firefighters (my stepsister is one in Florida.) Why aren't women represented? None of them are represented as gay - there are gay firefighters, after all. (Dont' ask me how you'd make a figure in a statue appear gay to the observer, short of putting a pink triangle on his uniform or something.) No lesbian, no Asian, no First Nation member? Yes, I'm being a bit deliberately absurd, just to make the point: how do you include everybody in a statue that only represents three firefighters?
 
Liberals - they never cease to amuse me.

First, we have liberals complaining about the subjectivity of history... how history was written by the evil white man and twisted to make those he stomped upon look like the bad guy. Evil white man writing history! History should be OBJECTIVE! Damn the white man!

But now...

Were Dan McWilliams, George Johnson and Billy Eisengrein white, black, and hispanic? I suppose it doesn't matter - the evil white man isn't telling this story.

-Warik
 
i can understand the artistic and diversity aspect of it. it's a good idea in theory but to do it as a political statement is plain wrong. if you want a diverse representation of the thre main ethnic groups in NYC try a united we stand memorial with three men raising each others hand in the air with a flag behind them showing unity umongst diversity. i see where both sides are coming from but i have to disagree with this decision. you must'nt re-write history at any cost. next on the list, how the colonist made a pact with the devil to win the revolutionary war.
 
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