Vets.. Can you use too much HCG?

[JuicedAthletics]

I enjoy having big bouncy balls. Im running tren, var and suspension right now. I dont want my balls to shrink up and with me, tren makes them melt. What is a good amount to run throughout a 6 week cycle.

 

[drrman]

well bro, if you are wanting big bouncy balls i'd stay away from the test, i mean its just gonna be a continual expensive battle with tren vs. HCG when it comes to your balls.....just let them shrink and get them back in the end...no need to try and fight it the entire cycle with HCG

 

[JuicedAthletics]

That makes sense bro, but I need them for asthetic reasons. Im not concerned about gyno or money. I just dont want to hurt myself, b/c I have read numerous studies that indicate too much HCG can cause an overload..

 

[BigRupe]

That makes sense bro, but I need them for asthetic reasons. Im not concerned about gyno or money. I just dont want to hurt myself, b/c I have read numerous studies that indicate too much HCG can cause an overload..

Which studies and an overload of what??

Most "studies" I have read show that high doses are given.

 

[JuicedAthletics]

Ill try to find them. Maybe macro can chime in. Something along the lines of desensitizing your body to LH??

 

[JuicedAthletics]

Bump please.

 

[boston789]

How much is considered too much? I plan on using 500ius ed for 2 weeks towards the end of my cycle...

 

[toxicsambo]

I enjoy having big bouncy balls. Im running tren, var and suspension right now. I dont want my balls to shrink up and with me, tren makes them melt. What is a good amount to run throughout a 6 week cycle.

Excess HCG can result in a massive estrogen rebound where fat and water will accumulate like your a pregnant housewife. THat's why 500IU's per day is a steady dose that won't result in injecting what you can't take back. This is also the reason you use Aromasin/AIFM and Nolva/Clomid, to block the estrogen from forming. Overadministrating HCG has no benefits, so just do it properly and you'll be fine.

HCG-500IU's/ed-3 weeks
Aromasin-20mgs/ed-4 weeks
Nolvadex-20mgs/ed-6 weeks
**Thanks to Mesomorphosis and A.Roberts.

 

[BigRupe]

Like I said the dozen or so studies I have read show that fairly large doses are used i treating infertile men. AAS use will make you infertile and mimic hypogonadism due to the decreased testicular volume.

In the studies I have seen doses are usually 3000 to 6000iu's per WEEK! For up to 6 months.

I think a person should take a loading dose of about 2000iu's and then about 2500iu's per week for 4 weeks or so. Keep doing a self exam to check testicular mass although not 100% reliable, but you should notice when they get heavy.

 

[kbrkbr]

I've always found recovery to be so much easier if I prevents shrinkage before it occurs by using hcg 500iu X 2 weekly throughout the cycle. Why chase the horse after its already out of the stall?

 

[looking to lean]

I've always found recovery to be so much easier if I prevents shrinkage before it occurs by using hcg 500iu X 2 weekly throughout the cycle. Why chase the horse after its already out of the stall?

I read this quote somewhere. Swale's PCT protocol perhaps? and I agree with it. can anyone say that this would be a bad use of HCG?

 

[BigRupe]

I've always found recovery to be so much easier if I prevents shrinkage before it occurs by using hcg 500iu X 2 weekly throughout the cycle. Why chase the horse after its already out of the stall?

The problem is most studies show you can't prevent shrinkage. Any amount of test will interfere with the HTPA and cause your testicles to stop producing and atrophy.

 

[Maxgain]

HCG is much better taken throughout the hole cycle 250-500iu 3x /wk. The old school method of letting them shrink and taking high doses at intervals is ill advised.
Do not take more than 1000iu per day.
High HCG amounts for prolonged periods can produce permanant desensitisation of testes leading to irreversible hypogonadism on cessation of cycle.

Swales protocol is 250iu 3x/wk.

Big Rupe the addition of HCG throughout cycle will prevent atrophy it overrides the HPTA and some will notice even bigger testicles if previously had low LH levels

 

[kbrkbr]

I read this quote somewhere. Swale's PCT protocol perhaps? and I agree with it. can anyone say that this would be a bad use of HCG?

Yup. Swale.

 

[BigRupe]

HCG is much better taken throughout the hole cycle 250-500iu 3x /wk. The old school method of letting them shrink and taking high doses at intervals is ill advised.
Do not take more than 1000iu per day.
High HCG amounts for prolonged periods can produce permanant desensitisation of testes leading to irreversible hypogonadism on cessation of cycle.

Swales protocol is 250iu 3x/wk.

Big Rupe the addition of HCG throughout cycle will prevent atrophy it overrides the HPTA and some will notice even bigger testicles if previously had low LH levels

Old school? I'm talking about studies by Universities and peer reviewed studies as early as a year ago. If you do a search I quoted one study that lasted over a decade.

The conclusion in several was you can't override the HTPA response caused by exogenous(sp) sources of testosterone with HCG.

 

[Ulter]

I enjoy having big bouncy balls.

LMAO... That's hilarious...

You can use 500iu EOD or do what I do and use 1000iu/day for 10 days on and then 10 off.

 

[Big_Joe]

I have posted this before so why not again. Here is a link to study that was done with HCG to return to normal level of intratesticular testosterone after shut down from testosterone administration.

HCG for HPTA shutdown

The quick version is 500iu every other day for three weeks brought levels up 26% above baseline.

My self I would use 500iu every other day for the length of the cycle. And if you guys would do a search on elite you would find swales PCT is 250 to 500 iu every other day.

 

[jronimoe15]

so if i take 250/500ius throughout the cycle, would i continue it after i'm finished with my gear along with the nolva/clomid/AIFM etc?

I have posted this before so why not again. Here is a link to study that was done with HCG to return to normal level of intratesticular testosterone after shut down from testosterone administration.

HCG for HPTA shutdown

The quick version is 500iu every other day for three weeksi s brought levels up 26% above baseline.

My self I would use 500iu every other day for the length of the cycle. And if you guys would do a search on elite you would find swales PCT is 250 to 500 iu every other day.

 

[Big_Joe]

so if i take 250/500ius throughout the cycle, would i continue it after i'm finished with my gear along with the nolva/clomid/AIFM etc?

I would as long as test is still high in your system. I believe sus keeps levels high for three weeks after you stop using it. So I keep using the hcg for three weeks after I stop sus. And I use a combination of Arimidex and Aromasin for my AI. These two have different mechanisms for controlling aromatase so I use them both but at a lower dose. But with that said Arimidex is shown to work at .5mg/day so it's all good.

 

[Maxgain]

Old school? I'm talking about studies by Universities and peer reviewed studies as early as a year ago. If you do a search I quoted one study that lasted over a decade.

The conclusion in several was you can't override the HTPA response caused by exogenous(sp) sources of testosterone with HCG.

That is wrong HCG itself shuts down the HPTA axis so supression by exogenous test will be indifferent. HCG stimulates the testes regardless of exogenous/ endogenous amounts of T present It is this use that has it as a standard protocol for HRT.
High doses can also cause permanent desensitisation of the testes as i have seen in practice.

 

[Tweakle]

It's been well covered, but just to note that lots of HCG + tren is potentially a really bad idea, all that estrogen suddenly floating around could set you up for some wicked prog gyno

 

[bbkingpin]

It's been well covered, but just to note that lots of HCG + tren is potentially a really bad idea, all that estrogen suddenly floating around could set you up for some wicked prog gyno

Good point. Wait until after your cycle or do as toxicsambo said and use AI and Nolva when taking HCG. You should be taking it anyway for the test suspension.

 

[Maxgain]

You dont want to take it post cycle it supresses the HPTA and as stated you should not be on a cycle without AI or Nolva anyway

 

[Big_Joe]

You dont want to take it post cycle it supresses the HPTA and as stated you should not be on a cycle without AI or Nolva anyway

I think you need to define "Post Cycle." I suspect that some people think that that means as soon as you stop taking test, or what ever, and not when levels fall back to normal. I would define post cycle as when your levels fall back to normal. Such as when using sustanon it stays active in the body for three weeks. So post cycle doesn't begin untill three weeks after your last dose. That's when you stop using hcg/(what ever AI you are using) and begin clomid/nolva to bring the HPTA back on line. If you have been running hcg the whole cycle your testicules are primed and ready. You just neet to get the hypothalamus and pituitary back up again.

 

[Maxgain]

I think you need to define "Post Cycle." That's when you stop using hcg/(what ever AI you are using) and begin clomid/nolva to bring the HPTA back on line. If you have been running hcg the whole cycle your testicules are primed and ready. You just neet to get the hypothalamus and pituitary back up again.

Yeah that is grand and as stated it is best to run throughout cycle. I define post cycle as when levels are back within physiological range ie 3 weeks for sus 500 injections