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ultracasterdropout
- Thread starter Lestat
- Start date
27HumanTarget said:
here is what I have eaten today...
4 servings of cottage cheese..
big bowl of oatmeal
huge turkey sandwich on whole wheat with about 1/3-1/2lbs of turkey breast
whole avocado
3 servings of baked ruffles
5 chocolate chip cookies
for dinner im gonna have some steaks and who knows what else.
string_bean00
New member
Lestat said:
More meat homie. Chicken breast and ground beef are easy as hell to prepare.
U
Ulcasterdropout
Guest
Mostly Genetics...Everyone is big in my family.
Endomorphic. Free Testosterone level 900-1000 ng/dl...useta be
I train 7 days aweek. My workouts a 2 hours a day. No cardio.
I eat ~6 meals a day with 3 shakes.
Test and EQ helped
I'm 26 y/o
Endomorphic. Free Testosterone level 900-1000 ng/dl...useta be
I train 7 days aweek. My workouts a 2 hours a day. No cardio.
I eat ~6 meals a day with 3 shakes.
Test and EQ helped
I'm 26 y/o
U
Ulcasterdropout
Guest
My eating secret is I buy bulk meats. If there's a deal on something. I buy 15.
There's farms everywhere here so meat is cheap.
I also hunt year round so thats more turkey and venison.
Venison is low fat. I fish and eat that...Damn, I eat alot.
I don't eat pasta or pizza. My diet is low in carbohydrates. Almost no sugar except post workout.
There's farms everywhere here so meat is cheap.
I also hunt year round so thats more turkey and venison.
Venison is low fat. I fish and eat that...Damn, I eat alot.
I don't eat pasta or pizza. My diet is low in carbohydrates. Almost no sugar except post workout.
thanks for the feedback man.
I've bulked before and eaten a shitload, but my bodyfat sky rockets. I'm an ectomorph, putting on serious muscle is TOUGH. I train with low reps, high weight, just 3 days a week with moderate volume. I've been doing it for 3 years or so now. Gained 40lbs, 30 is muscle.. but that just puts me around 210.. how one earth do I get another 40lbs???
I've bulked before and eaten a shitload, but my bodyfat sky rockets. I'm an ectomorph, putting on serious muscle is TOUGH. I train with low reps, high weight, just 3 days a week with moderate volume. I've been doing it for 3 years or so now. Gained 40lbs, 30 is muscle.. but that just puts me around 210.. how one earth do I get another 40lbs???
strangebrew
New member
Lestat said:
Consistency. I was 140 lbs 3 years ago. Now I'm 207 and still gaining. I've basically eaten the same amount of food for the last 3 years, except for a few cutting phases.
strangebrew
New member
Lestat said:
6'3. Total ectomorph.
string_bean00
New member
Lestat said:
Were you eating clean, though? In that diet you posted from today, you had Ruffles and cookies in there. Even ectomorphs will gain fat eating a lot of that.
U
Ulcasterdropout
Guest
Gear...Lestat said:
For me. I found diet to be a major part. I'm not just spewing some bandwagon shit. This is from trial and error. Seeing what works for me, in the gym, on paper, and on the scale.
Lots of meat, medium fat, low carbs, no simple carbs.
On cycle, even with EQ, I have to push food sometimes.
This cycle, durring Christmas, my diet slipped and Tren killed my sleep.
I gained NOTHING...Got back on track, gains came back like clockwork.
I train all body parts differently. It can get confusing remembering it all.
Day 1 Chest and Tris
Day 2 Bis, shoulders, forearms/grip
Day 3 Legs and calves
Day 4 Back, abs, traps
Problem with training 7 days a week, my wrists hurt like hell alot.
I use joint supps 3 times a day.
2 multi vits a day.
My PW shake has aminos and glutamine.
Essential fats in the morning.
strangebrew
New member
Another thing...I know a lot of people say that 2-2.5 grams per bodyweight of protein is way too much. But for me, it's the only way I make solid gains. I've tried dropping my protein intake while keeping my calories high, it just doesn't work for me.
strangebrew
New member
One thing that might help, a recipe for homeade protein bars:
8 scoops whey protein from www.allthewhey.com
1 1/2 cups of peanut butter
2 cups of oatmeal.
1 cup of nonfat milk
8 tablespoons of honey
Now put the honey and peanut butter in first, then microwave them on high for 80 seconds. Then mix the oatmeal, whey and milk in with it. Mix it all up real good then paste it into a 13x9 pan. Leave overnight in the fridge, then cut them into 12-14 equal bars. They taste great and are good for you. Just don't let them get too warm or they start to get kinda mushy.
8 scoops whey protein from www.allthewhey.com
1 1/2 cups of peanut butter
2 cups of oatmeal.
1 cup of nonfat milk
8 tablespoons of honey
Now put the honey and peanut butter in first, then microwave them on high for 80 seconds. Then mix the oatmeal, whey and milk in with it. Mix it all up real good then paste it into a 13x9 pan. Leave overnight in the fridge, then cut them into 12-14 equal bars. They taste great and are good for you. Just don't let them get too warm or they start to get kinda mushy.
Last edited:
U
Ulcasterdropout
Guest
Same...strangebrew said:
awittyusername
New member
This is something I typed up for someone who wanted to know my diet.
Here is an average day. (not bulking or cutting)
meal 1 Lean Mass Matrix Meal replacement drink (carbs come from slow burning oats) ($1.50 each) 40P 40C
meal 2 1 can tuna mixed with 1/2 to 1 cup Old fasioned Oats and broc. (yes its gross but its cheap and easy) $.75
meal 3 45 gr designer whey pro. and 3/4 cup of oats. 30C
(cheap meal replacement $.75)
preworkout 2 scoop Designer whey and 1 scoop N-Large(45g Pr and 25 carb)($.50)
postworkout 2scoops designer whey and 1 scoop N-large and 2 scoop phosphagen XT creatine (45p and 70c) about $2
meal 6 2 grilled fresh chicken breasts 1 yam and cauliflour $2 (1hr after wkout)
meal 7 Myoplex Shake 42P 25C(withing 3 hrs after wkout)
meal 8 Glycerlene by designer (slow burning PRo) 40 grams. ($1) 1/2 cup oats 22C and broccoli
Udo's choice in morning and night.
When bulking add an extra scoop of protien to every meal I can and double up the carbs.
BTW. I know I should eat more actual food, but it is hard during the work day. I have premade shakes and meal replacement bars in my car at all times, bc I work alot on the road.
EDIT: The cheapest place I have found for Sups is supplementwholesalers.com
Here is an average day. (not bulking or cutting)
meal 1 Lean Mass Matrix Meal replacement drink (carbs come from slow burning oats) ($1.50 each) 40P 40C
meal 2 1 can tuna mixed with 1/2 to 1 cup Old fasioned Oats and broc. (yes its gross but its cheap and easy) $.75
meal 3 45 gr designer whey pro. and 3/4 cup of oats. 30C
(cheap meal replacement $.75)
preworkout 2 scoop Designer whey and 1 scoop N-Large(45g Pr and 25 carb)($.50)
postworkout 2scoops designer whey and 1 scoop N-large and 2 scoop phosphagen XT creatine (45p and 70c) about $2
meal 6 2 grilled fresh chicken breasts 1 yam and cauliflour $2 (1hr after wkout)
meal 7 Myoplex Shake 42P 25C(withing 3 hrs after wkout)
meal 8 Glycerlene by designer (slow burning PRo) 40 grams. ($1) 1/2 cup oats 22C and broccoli
Udo's choice in morning and night.
When bulking add an extra scoop of protien to every meal I can and double up the carbs.
BTW. I know I should eat more actual food, but it is hard during the work day. I have premade shakes and meal replacement bars in my car at all times, bc I work alot on the road.
EDIT: The cheapest place I have found for Sups is supplementwholesalers.com
Last edited:
awittyusername
New member
lol I had to quit drinking beer about 7 yrs ago when my metab started slowing. I got fat!!!!!!!!bran987 said:
I only drink 3 or 4 vodka/sodas if I go out and there is girls around. Which has been under 10 times a yr the last 2 yrs. But, I hope to go out a little more and meet more girls this yr.
U
Ulcasterdropout
Guest
Damn, awitty. You must live @ GNC 
Thanks for sharing that with us...
Pimp 'dem hoes
I never use a pre-workout shake. I'd throw that shit up...
Thanks for sharing that with us...
You better! What, you think your me or something?Awitty said:
Pimp 'dem hoes
I never use a pre-workout shake. I'd throw that shit up...
Lestat said:
Bone structure and frame. My guess is he can hold a lot more weight than you because of his bone structure and frame. For instance, I have small calves in comparison to the rest of my body. The great 2Thick, said I would weigh 20 pds more if my calves were 2 inches bigger. Makes sense, that's 4 inches for those that have trouble with math.
U
Ulcasterdropout
Guest
I do have a big frame, but unproportional. I have no V-line.biteme said:
I got to get a better camera and show you guys...
strangebrew said:
I'd be running to the bathroom all day long if I ate that much protein. That's over 400 grams a day! It's total amount of calories that you take in. I don't believe in the mega dose protein diet. Your body can only digest and use so much protein and it's nowhere near 400 gms. That's a lie by the supplement industry. The rest gets converted to glycogen or fat.
strangebrew
New member
biteme said:
Well, I've tried both ways. And it's not just a placebo effect either. More protein = better gains for me.
RADAR
Well-known member
I'd like to start this article by asking you a question. What is the most anabolic substance known to man? If you said food then you are 100 percent correct. It is absolutely impossible to put muscle on without enough nutrients to support the process. You can train day after day, month after month, and still see absolutely nothing new in the mirror if you are not eating enough.
Taking this into consideration, it would stand to reason that the more food you consume, the higher an anabolic response your body will have after a brutal workout. So if you were looking for a muscle building magic bullet then you have no further to look than your refrigerator! Go stand in your kitchen for a minute. Look around, you are completely surrounded by the most anabolic substance in the world! You can almost feel its power as if the cabinets were about to explode. For if you consume the correct amount of macronutrients you will undoubtedly experience a surge of muscle growth that you never imagined possible!
Everything I have ever done has been to the extreme. Whether at work or play I have always attempted to break barriers. I believe that this is the mentality a bodybuilder must have if he/she is to succeed! Therefore, you can imagine what transpired when I first discovered the anabolic power of food. I stuffed myself with it!
Make no mistake about it, you will never become huge on 2,500 calories a day! No matter what any sell out magazine tells you. I know that allot of you are thinking, " what about my abs? I don't want to lose sight of them." Have you ever seen pro bodybuilders in the off season? They are tanks! Lee Priest competes at 225 and has gotten up to 300 pounds in the off season. While I am not going to ask you to go to these extremes, you must sacrifice by gaining a small amount of fat if you ever hope to add serious muscle mass. Guess what? When you diet the fat off after a bulk, your abs will still be there, and with them, a whole new layer of lean muscle mass that you can show off at the beach! Remember bodybuilding is a process of building the body up and then chiseling it down again. You must understand that you cannot build anything without the proper materials and that is what my Diet" is all About. Here's what I am going to do, I will post a mass building diet that is meant to build muscle, while keeping fat gain to a minimum. I will accomplish this by sticking with extremely clean eating!
Get the Diet Components
Protein - I can talk all day long about the importance of protein! But I will sum it up by saying that this macronutrient contains the building blocks of muscle tissue! Without the proper amount of protein you can kiss muscle gains goodbye! I would recommend a minimum of 1 to 1.5 grams per pound of body weight a day from sources such as chicken, fish, turkey, steak, skim milk, egg whites and protein powders. Therefore, if you weigh 200 pounds, you should consume 200 to 300 grams per day. Lastly, I would stay away from foods such as bacon and ribs. All the meat you eat should be lean.
Carbohydrates - Obviously you cannot induce muscle growth without intense workouts. Well, there is no way that you can train at an optimal level without the bodies chief source of fuel. The Carbohydrate. This macronutrient not only fuels us, but it releases one of the body's most anabolic hormones in response to its ingestion. This hormone is called insulin, and it increases the uptake of protein into our muscles tremendously. Carbs also spare protein so that it can be used to build muscle as opposed to being burned as energy (see note). You should consume 2.5 to 3.5 g of carbohydrates a day. That said, a 200 pound man would consume 500 to 700 grams of carbs a day from complex carbohydrates such oatmeal, and wheat bread.
Note: The body has the capability to convert other macros into glucose. Such a process is known as gluconeogenesis. Mr. Knowlden discusses this in The Window Of Opportunity. Here is an excerpt:
Cortisol literally converts muscle tissue to proteins for conversion into glucose. This is your body’s way of producing energy when all readily available energy (glucose) and stored forms (glycogen) of energy have been expended. To compensate for this depletion of energy, your body will go into a process called gluconeogenesis to produce glucose from amino acids in the liver. The end result of this process? Hard earned muscle used as energy, and all potential gains becoming null and void.
Essential Fatty Acids - Fat intake, namely from EFA's, are vital to your progress. Essential Fatty Acids help with countless areas in our bodybuilding lifestyle. For more information on this, refer to, Essential Fatty Acids - An In Depth Analysis.
Calculating Your Calories
I discuss caloric calculation in 13 weeks to burning fat the diet. You can go to the exact section by clicking here. Once there, find the amount of calories it would take to maintain your current bodyweight. Here is what you must understand: even though food is extremely anabolic, a general rule of thumb, is that the higher you raise your caloric intake, the more fat you will store. You can minimize this through clean eating, and slowly raising your calories. For example, say your maintenance is 3, 000 calories per day, you might tack on an additional 250 calories the first week to increase muscular gains. On that low an increase, fat gain will be negligible to non-existent! If weight gain fails, then increase your intake slowly again.
Sample Meal Plan
The following diet is over 4,500 calories, you will of course adjust it to your daily needs as calculated above.
Meal One
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
5 egg whites
60
0
18
0
2 whole eggs
144
0
12
10
1 cup Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
1 medium sized apple
90
23
1
0
Total
594
77
41
16
Meal Two
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
7 oz chicken breast 217 0 45 4
1 cup Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
Total
517 54 55 10
Meal Three
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
6 oz Tuna
186 0 39 3
4 slices wheat. bread 440 104 8 2
Total
626 104 47 5
Meal Four (PW shake)
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
45 Grms Dextrose 180 45 0 0
45 Grms Dextrose 180 45 0 0
46 grams of Whey
220 6 46 3
Total
580 96 46
3
Meal Five
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
1 Cup of Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
1 Large Sweat Potato 150 35 3 1
2 turkey Burgers 260 2 48 6
Total
710 91 61 13
Meal Six
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
8 oz fish 258 0 45 9
1 Large Sweat Potato 150 35 3 1
Total
408 35 48 10
Meal Seven
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
8 oz fish 258 0 45 9
2 or 3:1 ratio N3-N6 EFA'S--2 table spoons 250 0 0 25
Assorted Greens 40 6 2 1
Total
548 6 47 35
Meal Eight
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
1 Cup Cottage Cheese 220 5 45 2
2 or 3:1 ratio N3-N6 EFA'S--2 table spoons 250 0 0 25
Assorted Greens 40 6 2 1
Total
510 11 47 28
Daily Totals
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
Nutrient Grams
4,500
474
392
120
RADAR
Taking this into consideration, it would stand to reason that the more food you consume, the higher an anabolic response your body will have after a brutal workout. So if you were looking for a muscle building magic bullet then you have no further to look than your refrigerator! Go stand in your kitchen for a minute. Look around, you are completely surrounded by the most anabolic substance in the world! You can almost feel its power as if the cabinets were about to explode. For if you consume the correct amount of macronutrients you will undoubtedly experience a surge of muscle growth that you never imagined possible!
Everything I have ever done has been to the extreme. Whether at work or play I have always attempted to break barriers. I believe that this is the mentality a bodybuilder must have if he/she is to succeed! Therefore, you can imagine what transpired when I first discovered the anabolic power of food. I stuffed myself with it!
Make no mistake about it, you will never become huge on 2,500 calories a day! No matter what any sell out magazine tells you. I know that allot of you are thinking, " what about my abs? I don't want to lose sight of them." Have you ever seen pro bodybuilders in the off season? They are tanks! Lee Priest competes at 225 and has gotten up to 300 pounds in the off season. While I am not going to ask you to go to these extremes, you must sacrifice by gaining a small amount of fat if you ever hope to add serious muscle mass. Guess what? When you diet the fat off after a bulk, your abs will still be there, and with them, a whole new layer of lean muscle mass that you can show off at the beach! Remember bodybuilding is a process of building the body up and then chiseling it down again. You must understand that you cannot build anything without the proper materials and that is what my Diet" is all About. Here's what I am going to do, I will post a mass building diet that is meant to build muscle, while keeping fat gain to a minimum. I will accomplish this by sticking with extremely clean eating!
Get the Diet Components
Protein - I can talk all day long about the importance of protein! But I will sum it up by saying that this macronutrient contains the building blocks of muscle tissue! Without the proper amount of protein you can kiss muscle gains goodbye! I would recommend a minimum of 1 to 1.5 grams per pound of body weight a day from sources such as chicken, fish, turkey, steak, skim milk, egg whites and protein powders. Therefore, if you weigh 200 pounds, you should consume 200 to 300 grams per day. Lastly, I would stay away from foods such as bacon and ribs. All the meat you eat should be lean.
Carbohydrates - Obviously you cannot induce muscle growth without intense workouts. Well, there is no way that you can train at an optimal level without the bodies chief source of fuel. The Carbohydrate. This macronutrient not only fuels us, but it releases one of the body's most anabolic hormones in response to its ingestion. This hormone is called insulin, and it increases the uptake of protein into our muscles tremendously. Carbs also spare protein so that it can be used to build muscle as opposed to being burned as energy (see note). You should consume 2.5 to 3.5 g of carbohydrates a day. That said, a 200 pound man would consume 500 to 700 grams of carbs a day from complex carbohydrates such oatmeal, and wheat bread.
Note: The body has the capability to convert other macros into glucose. Such a process is known as gluconeogenesis. Mr. Knowlden discusses this in The Window Of Opportunity. Here is an excerpt:
Cortisol literally converts muscle tissue to proteins for conversion into glucose. This is your body’s way of producing energy when all readily available energy (glucose) and stored forms (glycogen) of energy have been expended. To compensate for this depletion of energy, your body will go into a process called gluconeogenesis to produce glucose from amino acids in the liver. The end result of this process? Hard earned muscle used as energy, and all potential gains becoming null and void.
Essential Fatty Acids - Fat intake, namely from EFA's, are vital to your progress. Essential Fatty Acids help with countless areas in our bodybuilding lifestyle. For more information on this, refer to, Essential Fatty Acids - An In Depth Analysis.
Calculating Your Calories
I discuss caloric calculation in 13 weeks to burning fat the diet. You can go to the exact section by clicking here. Once there, find the amount of calories it would take to maintain your current bodyweight. Here is what you must understand: even though food is extremely anabolic, a general rule of thumb, is that the higher you raise your caloric intake, the more fat you will store. You can minimize this through clean eating, and slowly raising your calories. For example, say your maintenance is 3, 000 calories per day, you might tack on an additional 250 calories the first week to increase muscular gains. On that low an increase, fat gain will be negligible to non-existent! If weight gain fails, then increase your intake slowly again.
Sample Meal Plan
The following diet is over 4,500 calories, you will of course adjust it to your daily needs as calculated above.
Meal One
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
5 egg whites
60
0
18
0
2 whole eggs
144
0
12
10
1 cup Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
1 medium sized apple
90
23
1
0
Total
594
77
41
16
Meal Two
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
7 oz chicken breast 217 0 45 4
1 cup Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
Total
517 54 55 10
Meal Three
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
6 oz Tuna
186 0 39 3
4 slices wheat. bread 440 104 8 2
Total
626 104 47 5
Meal Four (PW shake)
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
45 Grms Dextrose 180 45 0 0
45 Grms Dextrose 180 45 0 0
46 grams of Whey
220 6 46 3
Total
580 96 46
3
Meal Five
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
1 Cup of Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
1 Large Sweat Potato 150 35 3 1
2 turkey Burgers 260 2 48 6
Total
710 91 61 13
Meal Six
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
8 oz fish 258 0 45 9
1 Large Sweat Potato 150 35 3 1
Total
408 35 48 10
Meal Seven
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
8 oz fish 258 0 45 9
2 or 3:1 ratio N3-N6 EFA'S--2 table spoons 250 0 0 25
Assorted Greens 40 6 2 1
Total
548 6 47 35
Meal Eight
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
1 Cup Cottage Cheese 220 5 45 2
2 or 3:1 ratio N3-N6 EFA'S--2 table spoons 250 0 0 25
Assorted Greens 40 6 2 1
Total
510 11 47 28
Daily Totals
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
Nutrient Grams
4,500
474
392
120
RADAR
strangebrew said:
Eating the same amount of calories? Doesn't work for me. There's no science backing it up. Science says what I already said. Just makes me have gas and go to the bathroom all day. LOL If it works for you, maybe there's something to it that they are missing. Are you positive it's the extra protein? How much protein were you eating before? calories the same?
strangebrew
New member
biteme said:
I've tried eating only 200-250 a day, I replaced the protein with lots of oatmeal and some flax oil. Calories are always around 4500-5000. I'm just not sure how accurate some of those studies are. Most are done on your average joe and not athletes. I also think it's gonna depend on the person.
Great Post Radar! You the man.
If I ate 4500 calories a day, I'd be a fat ass in no time. LOL
So there's the secret, you gotta get fat and then shed the fat and each time you do this, you will continue to get bigger and leaner. I've got to try it.
Ever notice how fat people have big ass calves and a lot of them have big muscles even though they don't work out? That's because, like you said, eating is anabolic and builds muscle tissue along with fat even if a person doesn't work out. The muscle is just not trained.
If I ate 4500 calories a day, I'd be a fat ass in no time. LOL
So there's the secret, you gotta get fat and then shed the fat and each time you do this, you will continue to get bigger and leaner. I've got to try it.
Ever notice how fat people have big ass calves and a lot of them have big muscles even though they don't work out? That's because, like you said, eating is anabolic and builds muscle tissue along with fat even if a person doesn't work out. The muscle is just not trained.
strangebrew
New member
biteme said:
I eat practically all day. I think my body has pretty much adapted to it. I get hungry really fast after eating a meal, even if it's a big one.
RADAR
Well-known member
Lestat said:
Lesat You do not have to eat this amount to get big..this is the plan i follow. Just get a gram of protein for every pound of body weight, add as you wish......if after 2 weeks you experience no gains, add 500 more calories
But you will need to plan
Fail to plan=plan to fail
RADAR
E
evansteve
Guest
strangebrew said:
I think perhaps the bigger you get, then perhaps the higher the grams of protein per lb bodyweight ratio gets.
strangebrew said:
I used to be like this too. I would get hungry every 1.5 hours, and it would suck cuz my meals were like 2.5 hours apart on average.
lately though I've fallen back into the 3-4 meal per day bullshit routine though. I need to get it back up to 6 again.
T
The Shadow
Guest
biteme said:
spreading them out allows your metabolic rate to stay redlined
The Shadow said:
redlined? What is that? Guess I need to start reading more. I know several big ass lean athletes that only eat 3 or 4 times a day. I liked to see the scientifice evidence behind this theory of eating 8 times a day. If I really thought I could put on 20 lbs of mass by doing that, I'd give it a try, but my guess is, I'd just end up getting fatter.
awittyusername
New member
biteme said:
I can't show you the science. But, some day I will show you what I used to look like eating 3 or "diet" meals and doing cardio and lifting atleast 6 days week. Then, I can show you pics 4 months later eating 6 - 8 meals a day and only working out 3 times a week. I lost about 40 lbs of fat and gained about 10 lbs of muscle.
awittyusername
New member
biteme said:
NO. I thought i was eating healthy. Mostly low fat crap.lol I know people will say this is geigh, but buy Body for Life. I guarantee it will work.
T
The Shadow
Guest
biteme said:
...100 IFBBers eat at least 6 times a day
sawastea
Well-known member
E
evansteve
Guest
biteme said:
i dunno, i've just heard that its always advised to have more meals whether u are cutting or bulking.
