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Tyson Won!
- Thread starter INNOCENT
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The Whole F/N Show
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Well that's certainly an accomplishment. A 49 second 1st round K.O. over a tomato can with a glass jaw. Thanks for the quick heads up. I don't have showtime. I'll try to catch the replay at a friend's this week. Tyson certainly destroys nothing fighters like no one else but that's about it now.
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Delinquent
Well-known member
He's doing exactly what he needs to do. Fight from the bottom up. This fight showed he still has the power. He even admitted he needs a couple more fights before he faces Lewis. I'm rooting for him all the way but he's one fucked up individual though.
big_bad_buff
New member
had to of been the intimidation factor of tysons face tattoo.
Nice right hook.Ettiene's leg looked like it was mangled when he went down.
Quit hatin.
Mike has always been a machine. He's now 38-0 in non-title fights and 50-4 overall. You dont have a record like that for nothing.
If he comes into the Lewis rematch with a clean head, having trained properly, I still believe he could "smear the ring with Lewis' pompous brains".
Etienne wasnt exactly a "tomato can with a glass jaw" either. He was 24-1 coming into the fight.
Mike has always been a machine. He's now 38-0 in non-title fights and 50-4 overall. You dont have a record like that for nothing.
If he comes into the Lewis rematch with a clean head, having trained properly, I still believe he could "smear the ring with Lewis' pompous brains".
Etienne wasnt exactly a "tomato can with a glass jaw" either. He was 24-1 coming into the fight.
PsychoSkitz
New member
Tyson also said "he had a broken back" and that's why the fight almost didn't go on.
He then said Etienne told him he needed money so Tyson said that's why he fought. The fact that Tyson said that and that Etienne went down off 1 punch should raise some question regarding this bout.
The real fight is March 1 when Roy Jones Jr. hits the heavyweight division. I think he'll drop the guy he's fighting. I don't think he can take Lewis but if Tyson gets another win or two and then we get a Tyson/Jones fight that would be a big ass payday for both fighters.
He then said Etienne told him he needed money so Tyson said that's why he fought. The fact that Tyson said that and that Etienne went down off 1 punch should raise some question regarding this bout.
The real fight is March 1 when Roy Jones Jr. hits the heavyweight division. I think he'll drop the guy he's fighting. I don't think he can take Lewis but if Tyson gets another win or two and then we get a Tyson/Jones fight that would be a big ass payday for both fighters.
J
Jeremy Carriere
Guest
PsychoSkitz said:
Tyson never said he had a broken back, he said he had a sore back; big difference...
I agree about him falling from the punch. The money issue and the fact that Tyson had to look "impressive" for a rematch against Lewis.
Tyson would murder Jones period. I'm not so sure Jones can even get past the sloppy Ruiz. I hope he does though but I see it by decision. I can't see him putting Ruiz down to the mat.
SofaGeorge
New member
BeefyBull said:
In the rare case of Mike Tyson... yes you do. Tyson spent his entire career ducking a fight with Holyfield. When they finally fought - Tyson lost.
Holyfield was the ONLY top fight Tyson ever went up against. He had the luck/disgrace of fighting during an era where tomato cans like Trevor Berbik and Riddick Bowe were considered contenders.
Tyson neer got to test his metal against a George Foreman or Ali. It will never be known if he was a great fighter in his prime because he NEVER faced great competiton and won.
The greats who got to watch Tyson fight - Holmes, Ali, and the rest of that era have universally said they are not impressed with Tyson and do not think he could have entered the ring as worthy competition.
My personal feeling from having watched Tyson fight - he had one of boxing hardest and fastest punches... but he never had the juice beyond two rounds. He lost his edge way too quickly... and he was never a sophisticated boxer. He couldn't get past Lewis's defense... he couldn't get past Holyfield's... and he never made a good showing against either of them.
PsychoSkitz said:
Bullshit. Show me one credible news source that quotes Mike saying he "had a broken back" or talks about Etienne telling Tyson he needed money. Your conspiracy theory about Etienne taking a dive is pretty funny too.
And Sofa, Tyson in his prime vs. Ali in his prime = Tyson scoring a knockout in 1-5 rounds.
Tyson was a "good" heavy weight boxer, nothing more. He just happened to come along when the heavy weight division was very down. As for this fight, the only reason that it took place was because of Mike's need for cash. If he didn't fight tonight then his fight against Lewis was in danger of being canceled. So he stepped into the ring against a man who has been knocked down numerous times in his last two fights and he beat him. It was a sure win, that his promoters are hoping will increase the pay per view on the Lewis fight.
SofaGeorge
New member
TC2 said:
Based on what? Who is the great fighter he fought against? Came you name one? I can't.
To be a great... you have to beat a great. To be a legend... you have to beat ALL of the greats. Ali did that. Tyson never did.
Alot of you fucks sound like the media. Quick to criticize if Mike does something bad or loses and quick to hate and not give due credit when he wins or does something positive.
You dont box in the heavyweight division for 17 years without skill. Tons of fighters have came and gone while Mike is a Top 10 contender for almost all the heavyweight belts.
http://www.fightnews.com/rankings2.htm
You dont box in the heavyweight division for 17 years without skill. Tons of fighters have came and gone while Mike is a Top 10 contender for almost all the heavyweight belts.
http://www.fightnews.com/rankings2.htm
PsychoSkitz
New member
Are you guys fucking kidding me?
He clearly said "I broke my back" -- Gray said "huh? like a vertabrae?" and Tyson said "No, spinal, in a motorcycle accident."
He talked for 50 seconds about Etienne saying he needed money, how he needed money and how he did it for his friend.
What fucking channel did you change it to after Etienne was counted out?
He clearly said "I broke my back" -- Gray said "huh? like a vertabrae?" and Tyson said "No, spinal, in a motorcycle accident."
He talked for 50 seconds about Etienne saying he needed money, how he needed money and how he did it for his friend.
What fucking channel did you change it to after Etienne was counted out?
PsychoSkitz
New member
Here, straight from ESPN.com on why he fought:
"I canceled too many fights in my career,'' Tyson said. "I wasn't afraid. He needed the money. I always need the money.''
They don't go on but that's a direct quote...
"I canceled too many fights in my career,'' Tyson said. "I wasn't afraid. He needed the money. I always need the money.''
They don't go on but that's a direct quote...
Yep,his exact words were,"I broke my back".He alluded to a motorcycle accident,but didn't go into details about it.
PsychoSkitz
New member
Thank you Huck. I've been wrong before but this time I'm telling the truth 
PsychoSkitz
New member
And for the record I think Ali in his prime, pre-court ruling, would kick the shit out of Mike Tyson.
Hell, he beat Foreman after ALL OF THAT and Foreman was a badass who nearly beat Holyfield when Real Deal was in his prime and George Lean Mean Grill was over 40!
Hell, he beat Foreman after ALL OF THAT and Foreman was a badass who nearly beat Holyfield when Real Deal was in his prime and George Lean Mean Grill was over 40!
Mike pre-split with trainer Kevin Rooney=Unstoppable
Mike post Kevin Rooney and surrounded by 'yes men'=Never the same skill/Ferocity.
He still possesses two things that will always make him dangerous:
1)A strong chin/ability to take a punch
2)Devastating 1 punch knockout power with either hand
Mike post Kevin Rooney and surrounded by 'yes men'=Never the same skill/Ferocity.
He still possesses two things that will always make him dangerous:
1)A strong chin/ability to take a punch
2)Devastating 1 punch knockout power with either hand
T
The Shadow
Guest
Ali/Tyson would be interesting.....A lot like Ali/Joe Frazier....which Ali won 2/3
I'm sorry but sofa have you ever actually watched tyson fight?? Or have you seen replays on the local nightly news?? I think you must be quite mad if you say tyson loses his juice after 2 rounds, he put ruddock down late in the fight he put douglas down in the 8th which if it hadn't been for the 14second count douglas had tyson would have won it by ko ITS BEEN PROVEN!! Mike tyson is the greatest heavyweight of this era if you don't see that you are blind plain and simple. It isn't tyson's fault he came into the heavyweight decision when it wasn't at its absoulte best in terms of talent. Just like ali had no choice of who would be fighting in his division when he started into the professional ranks. To say ali would destroy tyson is stupid and just plain un-true. Did you ever watch ali fight fraizer?? Did you see the beatings ali took in those fights?? Well imagine frazier bigger, faster, meaner, and can punch twice as hard and you have tyson. No heavyweight in the history of the sport could beat a 1988 prime Mike Tyson if you think they can you know nothing about boxing and you shouldn't get into discussions about it any longer. Thanks.
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The Shadow
Guest
SupraHero said:
No...not at all.....he had a swollen jaw form the first fight...other than that - he looked untouched.......the other two rematches werent even close......
Lennox Lewis in his prime could have taken out Tyson then as well.....Tyson has NEVER EVER beaten a boxer......only punchers
B
BangedUp
Guest
Anyone see the press conference after the fight? Tyson was talking about how he would have to fight consistently to beat someone like Lewis. He said he has other priorities though such as getting high, playing with his kid, and drinking.
LOL
LOL
J
Jeremy Carriere
Guest
Cornholio said:
Michael Spinks, Razor Ruddock, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Trevor Berbick were all boxers and not "punchers" with Spinks being the most notable.
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The Shadow
Guest
Jeremy Carriere said:
Spinks was past his prime
Bruno is not a boxer - please - he cant even turn around fast
Ruddock was close to being a boxer - not quite
Tucker and Berbick - cmon....I mean boxer as in Jones Jr. type boxer or Haggler or Ray Leonard for that matter.
Who has beaten Tyson?
Douglas - brawler admittedly BUT tyson was overconfident...he never would have lost that fight otherwise imo
Holyfield - boxer - very underrated as such
Lewis - boxer
He cannot beat a skilled boxer who can jab and counter punch. Earlier in his career he managed much better than now.
Keep it beefy
New member
Cornholio said:
wasn't Michael Spinks an olympic gold medalist?
Cornholio said:
You neglected to mention Larry Holmes, one of the greatest boxers of all time. Of course he was past his prime when he fought Tyson but he was in his 30's and had never taken a beating, only 2 controversial losses to Michael Spinks. He boxed fairly well against Tyson, but Tyson got inside with his blinding speed and ferocious punching power. Holmes had one of the if not the greatest jabs of all time.
J
Jeremy Carriere
Guest
Yup I was going to edit my post and add Holmes because I forgot about him but he replied to my comment by that time already...
Cornholio: I don't care if they were past their prime or not, I was just trying to say some guys that were more boxer-like compared to punchers.
And it doesn't matter if Spinks or Holmes were in their prime or not... Tyson had their number easily.
Cornholio: I don't care if they were past their prime or not, I was just trying to say some guys that were more boxer-like compared to punchers.
And it doesn't matter if Spinks or Holmes were in their prime or not... Tyson had their number easily.
SofaGeorge
New member
biteme said:
I beat GrandMaster Havlek at chess in 1995. Of course he was 95 at the time and his online rating was down to 1400.
Does that mean I'm GrandMaster class now?
Holmes was a good fighter in his prime... operative word WAS.
The people who bang the drum that Tyson was the greatest fighter or even a great fighter miss the fundamental - HE NEVER WON A FIGHT AGAINST A GREAT FIGHTER IN HIS PRIME... NEVER ONCE... NEVER EVEN CAME CLOSE.
And, please, don't point at Spinks as a "great." That is just plain embarrassing. Spinks's undefeated record is further evidence of how piss poor boxing was during Tyson's career.
The only great fighter in this era has been Holyfield... primarily because he is not a true heavyweight... he's a cruiser who added a couple pounds to take on the big boys - and he did it well. That is the type of accomplishment that makes a boxer great... not having Don King arrange fight after fight with mediocre opponents.
If Tyson was such a great fighter - why did he duck Holyfield his whole career? I remember when he took out Berbick... Holyfiled was in line then. Why did Tyson duck him all those years when he offered the one great opportunity for Tyson to fight a real contender?
It's undecided whether he would have won or lost with he and Holyfield both fighting in their primes... but it is undeniable that Tyson ducked him. It was one of the great embarrassments of the boxing industry... and it revealed the kind of fighter that Tyson really was... and the kind of promoter that Don King really was.
SofaGeorge said:
I was just stating facts. Are you putting words in my mouth? I never said any of the things that you mention here. I, unlike yourself and several others here do not claim to know who is the greatest fighter or how great a fighter is. All of that is speculative and open to debate.
SofaGeorge said:
Spinks had never even been knocked to the canvas before Mike knocked his ass down. You can download the entire fight on Kazaa. That was a championship fight for belts and Mike took him out in 91 seconds.
Tyson didnt really 'duck' Holyfield considering he fought him twice. The first was an 11th round win by Holyfield if I remember correctly. The second fight was a 3rd round DQ that Mike was still very much in when the fight was ended. Evander is a dirty fighter and deserved to be bitten. Fighters will typically go foul-for-foul if a ref isnt calling anything until the ref finally does. Mike picked a particularly bad foul to do (biting). Evander Holyfield is a notorius headbutter and had a personal friend (Mills Lane) refereeing the fight.
Look at Mikes 'whopping' 4 losses:
1. Loss to Buster Douglas in 10th round right after Mike had knocked him down for a 9 count some say was actually more than 9 seconds. Buster Douglas was fighting after a relative had died and dedicated the fight to them.
2. Loss to Holyfield - 10th round
3. Loss to Holyfield - DQ
4. Loss to Lewis - 8th round loss - First round clearly Tysons, next 3 were somewhat even, last 3 were clearly Lewis'
Beefy you must be the only other person who has followed tysons career in this thread besides myself. Look sofa you may not like tyson and say he hasn't beaten anyone in his career but look at it this way. When tyson fought holyfield it was a farce the way they let holyfield grab and hold and hold and hit. He didn't fight tyson he grabbed tyson and ran around like a bitch, that is NOT FIGHTING!!! In the lewis fight tyson looks like they had given him animal tranq's before the fight he looked so serene and complacent that he wasn't even in his right mind to fight him. I have never seen tyson just stand there and not throw punches like he did against lewis. If he comes in prime shape and with a couple halo's in his system he will ko lewis possibly in the first round. I really wish the boxing community would get off lewis's cock as who has lennox lewis really fought in his career that makes him so fucking great?? Lets see here umm he fought a WASHED UP HOLYFIELD twice and I think holyfield got him the second time, he fought a david tua that was afraid to throw punches and had a hurt rib so he just survived. He fought a hrmm lets see ya thats exactly right lennox lewis hasn't fought anyone worth a fuck either.
Everyone keeps acting like lewis is some great champion lewis just had the fortunate run as champion when the division has been soft as of late, he still has been knocked THE FUCK OUT by two people that are not really sought after for having power, and he was ko'ed with 1 punch by both of them. He is ducking wladimer klitchko like there is no tomorrow because wlad will kick the fucking shit out of him and he knows it. Face it tyson of 88 would kill any heavyweight in the history of the sport there is no question. Whoever said rocky would beat him please get real marciano was about 190lbs in his career he wasn't even a full sized heavyweight tyson would have crushed his skull in less than 3 rounds. Thanks.
Everyone keeps acting like lewis is some great champion lewis just had the fortunate run as champion when the division has been soft as of late, he still has been knocked THE FUCK OUT by two people that are not really sought after for having power, and he was ko'ed with 1 punch by both of them. He is ducking wladimer klitchko like there is no tomorrow because wlad will kick the fucking shit out of him and he knows it. Face it tyson of 88 would kill any heavyweight in the history of the sport there is no question. Whoever said rocky would beat him please get real marciano was about 190lbs in his career he wasn't even a full sized heavyweight tyson would have crushed his skull in less than 3 rounds. Thanks.
SupraHero said:
Thanks SH (not a big fan of a lot of foreign cars, but your SN is a good one). Green for you.
While you've got to give Rocky Marciano respect (he was one helluva boxer & competitor), it was a completely different era. He wouldnt stand a chance against a prime Tyson (or maybe even Tyson now).
BeefyBull said:
In my personal opinion you can't compare the two considering marciano was never a actual heavyweight. I give much respect to the older fighters as 15 rounds and no 8 count was brutal, I still think Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest boxer of all time. However when you are talking heavyweights it begins and ends with tyson. Don't get my wrong Ali is a LEGEND and one of the greatest fighters ever. However he WOULD NOT beat mike tyson, I just don't see how people can honestly believe he would. Corn said eariler about how bad frazier was beat up, I cannot dispute that fact but he also beat the piss outta Ali while he was getting beat. Just think of a faster,harder to hit,meaner,5x the power heavyweight and there you have tyson. No question tyson ko's ali within 5.
SeanHolmz
New member
SupraHero said:
This I disagree, however I still think he is one of the greatest. I still think Ray Jones Jr. ,,,by far is the greatest pound for pound boxer to date. He has simply destroyed every opponent in the ring with him. I've seen him fight with both of his hands behind his back the entire fight and destroy the opponent. I forgot who this was however? Does anyone else know?
SeanHolmz said:
I'm sorry to break your bubble but roy jones hasn't fought a 1/8th of the competition that Sugar Ray Robinson fought. At one time robinson was over 100 wins and 0 losses. Roy jones is one of the greatest pound for pound probally 2nd behind robinson but i cannot give him the title as the greatest simply because he hasn't fought near the level comp that robinson did. I would have loved to seen jones fight michael moore when moore was a light heavyweight and was 26-0-26ko's don't think jones would have just walked over moore jones probally unless he ran around the ring would have gotten knocked out. People forget before moore was heavyweight champion he was maybe the most dominant light heavyweight ever. I want to see jones and chris byrd fight at cruiserweight.
K
KAYNE
Guest
LOTS OF TYSON HATERZ IN HERE.
I DID HEAR THE ANNOUNCERS SAYING TYSON SAID HE HAD A BROKEN BACK. I DIDNT HEAR TYSON SAY IT HOWEVER.
KAYNE
I DID HEAR THE ANNOUNCERS SAYING TYSON SAID HE HAD A BROKEN BACK. I DIDNT HEAR TYSON SAY IT HOWEVER.
KAYNE
CanadianCripple
New member
Oh crap! Here we go again... "Mike's back... he'll beat Lewis in a rematch... nobody can touch Tyson if he's focused... blah blah blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"
You should all go back & read what you Tyson lovers were saying in the months leading up to the Lewis fight. LMFAO!
Hmmmm, The White Buffalo & The Black Rhino? Somebody should call PETA and tell them Mike is being cruel to animals.
You should all go back & read what you Tyson lovers were saying in the months leading up to the Lewis fight. LMFAO!
Hmmmm, The White Buffalo & The Black Rhino? Somebody should call PETA and tell them Mike is being cruel to animals.
The Ranger
New member
Boxing is one of, if not my favorite sports. I've watched Tyson and alot of others come up through the ranks....What made Tyson so great??
Quite simple, Tyson came along at a time when boxing was polished, 12 rounds, the first 5 of which was a jousting match for each opponet to feel each other out, define their respective weakness, and capatilize on them. Tyson threw a kink in that fight plan, he was the first to fight like a madman, to try and not only knock the other guy out quickly, but hurt him in the process....His build, and crouching fighting style was very hard to defend at the time.....heavy hitting uppercuts, monsterous hooks and body shots became a Tyson trademark, and the ring became littered with those who doubted his style....very quickly.
Tyson's problem was personal, and the fact he never evolved as a fighter, that was his undoing in the Douglas, and Holyfield fight....Lewis, Tyson never showed up mentally for that fight, yet a loss is a loss, and a win is a win....his record is impressive....though not as much as others...Chavez case in point.
When Tyson is surrounded by good people, he is almost unstoppable....this hasn't happened in 10 years or so....we'll have to wait and see how things progress.
Roy going to heavies....doing it for the money and sport. I think it's a mistake, but who else can he fight?? I think right now, pound for pound, he is on top of the boxing game.
Ranger
Quite simple, Tyson came along at a time when boxing was polished, 12 rounds, the first 5 of which was a jousting match for each opponet to feel each other out, define their respective weakness, and capatilize on them. Tyson threw a kink in that fight plan, he was the first to fight like a madman, to try and not only knock the other guy out quickly, but hurt him in the process....His build, and crouching fighting style was very hard to defend at the time.....heavy hitting uppercuts, monsterous hooks and body shots became a Tyson trademark, and the ring became littered with those who doubted his style....very quickly.
Tyson's problem was personal, and the fact he never evolved as a fighter, that was his undoing in the Douglas, and Holyfield fight....Lewis, Tyson never showed up mentally for that fight, yet a loss is a loss, and a win is a win....his record is impressive....though not as much as others...Chavez case in point.
When Tyson is surrounded by good people, he is almost unstoppable....this hasn't happened in 10 years or so....we'll have to wait and see how things progress.
Roy going to heavies....doing it for the money and sport. I think it's a mistake, but who else can he fight?? I think right now, pound for pound, he is on top of the boxing game.
Ranger
big dog
New member
Tyson ducking Holyfield???
Have you ever heard of jail??
Speaking of Heavyweights ducking opponents...When is Lewis going to fight those 2 fucking russian white boys????
Lewis beat a washed up Tyson and Holyfield in his career...thats it..
I guess Holmes is better than Ali because Holmes beat Ali when he was over the hill...
Have you ever heard of jail??
Speaking of Heavyweights ducking opponents...When is Lewis going to fight those 2 fucking russian white boys????
Lewis beat a washed up Tyson and Holyfield in his career...thats it..
I guess Holmes is better than Ali because Holmes beat Ali when he was over the hill...
The Ranger
New member
biteme said:
Very true, and used to go through a heavy bag every two days or so...YET, Ali did to Foreman, what Holyfield did to Tyson....And in essence ruined George for many years to come....Deja vu with Tyson perhaps???
Ranger
SofaGeorge
New member
SupraHero said:
Did I make it sound like I thought lewis was a great champion? If I did... let me correct that. My oppinion of Lewis is essentially the same as that of Tyson... that they both rose to the top of the pack during a time period when boxing didn't have any great fighters for them to contend with. I wouldn't give Lewis any better odds against Foreman, Frazier, or Ali than I would give Tyson. I think they would both lose.
The only reason I laud Holyfield is that I think it is remarkable that a cruiser was able to hold his own and take the heavyweight title... even if he didn't take it from somebody like Foreman.
And anyone who thinks Tyson didn't duck Holyfield needs to do a little research... or talk to pretty much anyone who knows the boxing industry. The running joke for years was that Tyson planned to beat Holyfield by waiting till old age caught up with him... and that is almost what happened.
T
TerraNoble
Guest
BeefyBull said:
Grow up!
Tyson will get his ass dusted off once and for ever when he faces MR.Lenox Lewis....
Etienne was happy to get one milion dollars! As far as Etienne's record concern, just empty numbers as his oponents were former chess players or bridge players..
Cant wait to see Tyson demolished ...
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The Shadow
Guest
biteme said:
Holmes was WAY past his prime..I also stated that Tysobn, earlier in hios career fared better against boxers than now.
T
The Shadow
Guest
lol
This isnt about Tyson hating.....but for you guys who think he can still beat a quality opponent - It aint gonna happen.
I predicted the lewis tyson outcome and only missed the time by less than 2 minutes.....if they fight again - tyson will go out even quicker.
Oh yeah - Jones Jr. will get his ass handed to him by Ruiz.
This isnt about Tyson hating.....but for you guys who think he can still beat a quality opponent - It aint gonna happen.
I predicted the lewis tyson outcome and only missed the time by less than 2 minutes.....if they fight again - tyson will go out even quicker.
Oh yeah - Jones Jr. will get his ass handed to him by Ruiz.
J
Jeremy Carriere
Guest
SeanHolmz said:
Glen Kelly and he only did it briefly to get Kelly to commit and throw some punches and then Roy drilled him.
MassiveGunz
New member
i dont have much to ad here other than i cant belive some of yall are sittin down at your tvs to watch some dud punch a tomatoe can
LOL how hard is that ill just go into my panttry and start wailin on campells soup cans and get a champinship belt6
LOL how hard is that ill just go into my panttry and start wailin on campells soup cans and get a champinship belt6
Randy_Spears
New member
BeefyBull said:
No, no, you mean "if you are pickin up what he's puttin down"
T
The Shadow
Guest
SupraHero said:
Pound for pound he might be the best ever......BUT.....he will not take a punch from a heavyweight.....you reply is that Jones is too fast to be hit.....perhaps 95% of the time - it will only take one good shot - AND the judges are not gonna give a challenger the title by dancing around.
SofaGeorge
New member
This brings to mind a hillarious encounter a guy I knew had a few years ago. He was at an LA nightclub and got in a punching match with Oscar De Lahoya. This guy was all proud because he stood his own and was able to trade punches even money with De Lahoya... then started moping the parking lot with him... then I pointed out that he outweighted Oscar by about 100lbs.
Oscar was his tomato can... and nobody was impressed.
Oscar was his tomato can... and nobody was impressed.
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