True case happened to someone who worked out at my gym

[Dr. JK]

This happened to someone who used to work out at my gym. I did know him personally and all the circumstances.

He had a full time day job (owned his own business) He was dealing gear out of his house. He never brought in strangers only people who he knew or people who were OK'ed by certain people. He lived with his girlfriend who he got into an argument and went and snitched on him. She told the cops where he lives and how much gear he has.
They took her word and set up a surveillance accross the street and monitored his situation. They saw people go in and out, but not that often, 1/day. Part of the surveillance were wire taps. Becasue they didn't see much trarffic they relied on the wire tap information.

One day he was sitting home alone, BOOM 5 cops bust through the door only after 2 sec of announcing themselves and search the whole place. They seized all the juice (don't know they qty) and $12K in cash. They went and searched the car which was in the parking lot and seaized some more.

At the station they declared $2K out of the $12K. His lawyer fought but lost the argument (5 cops aginst 1 dealer, who is the judge going to believe)

Anyway, they said they would give him back the juice for some names. Ho told them to F-off literally. Because of that they refused to reduce his trafficking charge to a minor posession.

At the end he got probation, community service and fines. No jail time (1st offence)

What kind of luck is that, snitched by his x-girlfriend out of haste, robbed by the cops and then having to pay over $4k in legal services to get back into life.

This is why I want to know more about how wire taps and surveillances are initated and how cops can rely on 1 person to get this surveillance started.

Rick and rest fo the leagal gang, please help better understand how we can avoid these kind of circumstances.

Thanks in advance

 

[liftshard]

The amount of trouble you get into will depend upon whether or not a prosecutor believes that they can convict you of a trafficking or possession offense.

The bottom line is that the government cares very little about possession; they are primarily interested in getting dealers. Additionally, steroids are class 3 substances, which are simply not as severe as "real" drugs like coke or heroin.

If a credible informant goes to the police, there is really nothing to stop them from getting the necessary warrants to conduct surveillance. The police do it all the time even with snitches whom they pay to lie.

Wire taps must be authorized by a judge with a warrant. Simple surveillance can be conducted from public areas with nothing.

He pled clear trafficking down to possession. That's normally what happens for small-time operations like this.

 

[Rick Collins]

In addition to my comments under another thread, be aware that under federal law (18 USC Sec. 2511) it's generally legal to intercept wire, oral or electronic communications if you are a party to the communication, or where one of the parties (an informant) has given prior consent to the interception.

 

[Citruscide]

In addition to my comments under another thread, be aware that under federal law (18 USC Sec. 2511) it's generally legal to intercept wire, oral or electronic communications if you are a party to the communication, or where one of the parties (an informant) has given prior consent to the interception.

Yeah, consent.

I have read a statute here in IL regarding the recording of conversations by one party, without the other party's knowledge... the statute seemed to say that it was OK as long as there was discussion of a felony or misdemeanor... but if there wasn't, then the taping by the taping-party would in itself be a felony -- if that makes sense... lol -- it didn't to me.

C-ditty

 

[genarr3]

Surprised they had to go through the trouble of wire taping and surveillance. I've seen cases right on this board where they got a search warrent simply on an informants word.

 

[ROID WARRIOR]

"The amount of trouble you get into will depend upon whether or not a prosecutor believes that they can convict you of a trafficking or possession offense.

The bottom line is that the government cares very little about possession; they are primarily interested in getting dealers. Additionally, steroids are class 3 substances, which are simply not as severe as "real" drugs like coke or heroin."


This is a common misconception, and one of the reasons that Rick reproduced the story of Mike S in LEGAL MUSCLE. The crap that Mike was put through for a personal supply of gear is astounding. Maryland and Michigan are two of the worst in this regard. The story of Winnie and Kumar, based upon an actual case in Michigan, indicates how severe the system can be on one who only received a few vials of ARA-test. Winnie and Kumar's house was raided, cash seized, vehicles seized, bank accounts seized and the People commenced a civil forfeiture action under Michigan's draconian forfeiture laws to obtain title to all of the foregoing, including their home.

Make no mistake, the police will go to great lengths and use extensive manpower over one parcel of D-bol including: applying for an anticipatory warrant, as well as subsequent warrants, preparing a parcel with an AT-4, having an officer dress as the letter carrier and effectaute the controlled delivery, and then serving the warrant.

Although not AAS, the case of Dianne Wright (discussed ion LEAGL MUSCLE and also on the board) indicates the lengths law enforcement and the prosecutor went to over a grandmother and her personal supply of valium.

RW

 

[liftshard]

Interdiction actions this severe for mere possession are rare. They simply are not that common. Period.

The police focus the lion's share of their attention on distributors, not possessors. If possession was THAT big a deal, they'd be tossing everyone coming out of any number of the nightclubs I frequent. In fact, one K9 unit could probably bust 50 or more patrons on an average night just by doing a sniff-by of the wait line on the street, which is perfectly legal.

While YMMV, what I say is the truth. I am not interested in extreme examples to refute valid general cases. What I said is the valid general case; the vast majority, VAST majority of possession cases in the vast majority of jurisdictions will receive FAR less scrutiny than distribution or trafficking cases.

Whether or not "Mike S" had a similar experience is simply impertinent.

However, your point about civil forfeiture laws is absolutely spot-on. In various jurisdictions, these can border on the INSANE and their application is HARDLY routine.

But, I know people, several of them, busted with possession of COKE with intent to distribute, they had like a couple 8 balls on them. They're walking the streets, no forfeiture, no draconian penalties. I am leery of citing extreme cases and attempting to establish some kind of trend from them and I am certainly not on here pimping my book or the book of somebody else.

SURE, you can get into lots of trouble for small-time roid possession. It just isn't that LIKELY. If we are to believe that it is, then a LOT of people on here better freakin stop juicing because their little attempts to "wipe their computers" or stash shit at friends houses isn't going to mean JACK against a police force that is seeing dollar signs in a house siezure. No matter what lengths you went to thinking you're freakin clever and all that, it's not going to matter much when the rubber hits the road. If the cops believe they can earn $250,000 off of you in forfeiture net, they will do everything up to and including break the law themselves to get you. They'll send you the package THEMSELVES and see if you accept it, or go a variety of routes to pseudo-entrap you into committing a minor possession infraction and then sieze the bejeezus out of you. That's just the world we live in with this drug war bullshit, but let's be SERIOUS and HONEST about how frequent it is.

In most major cities with crime problems, thugs run open air drug markets in plain sight and nothing much is happening to them. THAT is the reality of drugs. But, that doesn't mean that you won't walk outside right now and get hit by a truck even though the true ODDS of it are 1 in a million.

 

[Rick Collins]

Okay, here's my take on all this. I spent quite a bit of effort making sure that LEGAL MUSCLE accurately reflected the realities of steroid arrests and prosecutions today. I am satisfied it is balanced. Mike S's case is not typical, nor was it presented to be so. It is pertinent, however; much more so than the street coke cases to which you allude, Liftshard. Cautionary true tales like Mike S's, incorporating the various mistakes made regarding online and mail issues and the investigative methods employed by LE, are of great practical value. My apologies to you if pointing this out is seen as "pimping" my book. From a pecuniary perspective, the fact is that I derive tremendously more income from those who DON'T read it.

Anyway, welcome to this board, Liftshard. I'm enjoying your insights and comments expressed in other posts and sincerely appreciate many of your contributions very much. The lawyers on this board, and all the others too, don't have to agree on everything or unjustly pat each other on the backs. We all have our individual styles, some softer and some more abrasive, and the diversity is not necessarily a bad thing. There may be great value to debating "Juris Doctor" versus "Juris Doctorate" if it educates and enlightens the members. But if I may offer my own observation after many years of practice, it's not an overabundance of mutual civility and respect that compromises our profession, but a paucity. I do try to keep that in mind, when I'm tempted to be sarcastic or condescending in the manner in which I take issue with my colleagues. Particularly on boards like this, where the shared, unpopular views that estrange us from the professional mainstream are INFINITELY more significant than our differences. We should appreciate our common ground more. That's my two cents. Period. Welcome aboard, and I look forward to your future posts.

 

[rnch]

NEVER trust your biatch with your personal life.

 

[liftshard]

Rick...I don't think I was replying to you, I was replying to Roid Warrior's statement. I have no problems whatsoever with you pimping a book, selling one, writing one...I'm all about free enterprise, man. More power to you, seriously.

I am all for cautionary tales, but I am leery of giving advice on how to break the law. We have people on here talking about crossing the border with a bunch of stuff and walking off w/ a $500 fine. I think we'll all agree that this is the more typical case. I mean, YES, you can get into serious trouble for almost anything. I've seen people sent to JAIL for speeding for less speed than I got a mere fine for.

A friend of mine recently spent 22 days in jail over failure to appear because she couldn't come up with a $50 bond payment. Stuff happens, we all know that. But, I think you'll agree with my statements. For the most part, you do not find boards like this discussing cocaine trafficking. Steroids are a lesser issue in MOST of the cases. That is the only point I'm trying to get across along with a generic rule about when and why the police may go balls out to crucify someone.