Tribulus Terrestris and Eurycoma Longifolia

[JustJacked]

I just bought some of this stuff yesterday. its supposed tol boost your natural testosterone levels. has anybody tried this stuff? if so, what were the results?

 

[AlphamaleStS]

I heard good things....Bump!

 

[blut wump]

I tried some maximuscle Trib. Can't really say I felt anything from it but I did get a couple of zits which is rare for me so it must be doing something. I'm also taking it as part of my pct after a PH cycle. I can't suggest I'd pay for more of the stuff. It did nothing for my libido either.

 

[SPORT SCIENTIST]

I just bought some of this stuff yesterday. its supposed tol boost your natural testosterone levels. has anybody tried this stuff? if so, what were the results?

Eurycoma Longifolia is the latin name for Horny Goats weed. It has been used as an aphrodisiac in Malaysia, where it is known as Tongkat Ali for centuries, usually brewed in the form of a tea.

The following description comes of the net:


Supplement Horny Goat Weed (Epimedium)

Description Epimedium is a genus of twenty-one related plant species. The Chinese refer to epimedium as "yin yang huo", which has been loosely translated by some as "licentious goat plant" and explains why Western supplement companies have adopted the titillating name by which it is known in the U.S: (horny goat weed). Epimedium is grown as an ornamental herb in Asia and the Mediterranean region, and various species are used for medicinal purposes, including Epimedium sagittatum, Epimedium brevicornum, Epimedium wushanense, Epimedium koreanum, and Epimedium pubescens.

Claims Because of the traditional use of epimedium for treating fatigue and boosting sex drive, the majority of the claims for Western dietary supplements center around sex drive: · Boosts libido (sex drive) · Increases energy levels · Enhances recovery from exercise (via cortisol-control) · Makes you more sexy (not really, but this is what the ads would suggest)

Theory The use of epimedium as a medicinal herb dates back to at least 400 A.D., where it has been used as a tonic for the reproductive system (boosting libido and treating impotence) and as a rejuvenating tonic (to relieve fatigue). Epimedium is thought to work via modulation of cortisol levels (the primary stress hormone). Under conditions of high stress, the increased cortisol levels are known to cause fatigue and depress sex drive - so bringing cortisol levels back into normal ranges is also thought to help restore normal metabolism, energy levels and libido.

Scientific Support Animal studies have shown that epimedium may function a bit like an adaptogen (such as cordyceps, rhodiola, ashwagandha, and ginseng) by increasing levels of epinephrine, norepinephrine, serotonin, and dopamine when they are low (an energy-promoting effect), but reducing cortisol levels when they are elevated (an anti-stress effect). There is also evidence that epimedium can restore low levels of both testosterone and thyroid hormone (bringing low levels back to their normal levels) - which may account for some of the benefits of epimedium in improving libido (sex drive). Animal studies using epimedium have shown a reduction in bone breakdown, an increase in muscle mass, and a loss of body fat-each of which may be linked to the observed return of abnormal cortisol levels back to normal values (and rhythm). In a series of studies conducted in humans and animals by Chinese researchers, immune-system function was directly suppressed and bone loss was accelerated, by using high-dose synthetic cortisol (glucocorticoid drugs). Subsequent administration of epimedium extract reduced blood levels of cortisol and improved immune immune-system function (in the humans) and slowed bone loss and strengthened bones (in the animals).

Safety It is interesting to note that although at least 15 fifteen active compounds have been identified in epimedium extracts, (luteolin, icariin, quercetin, and various epimedins), many supplement companies currently use alcohol extracts standardized only for high levels of icariin. The traditional use of epimedium, however, is as a hot-water decoction (tea), which would result in a very different profile of active constituents when compared to the high-icariin alcohol extracts that are more commonly used in commercial products. Although at least one test test-tube study has shown icariin to protect liver cells from damage with by various toxic compounds, other feeding studies (in rodents) have suggested that high-dose icariin may be associated with kidney and liver toxicity. There have been no reports of adverse side effects associated with the traditional preparation of epimedium (water-extracted) at the suggested dosage (250 to 1,000mg per day).

Value

Dosage Because all of the existing scientific evidence for the anti-stress and cortisol-controlling effect of epimedium has been demonstrated for water-extracted epimedium (that is, as a tea), and because this form of extraction may result in a safer form of epimedium (compared to the high-icariin alcohol extract), it may be prudent to select supplements that specifically use a more traditional formulation. There have been no reports of adverse side effects associated with the traditional preparation of epimedium (water-extracted) at the suggested dosage (250-1,000mg/day in 2-3 divided doses).

References 1. Cai D, Shen S, Chen X. Clinical and experimental research of Epimedium brevicornum in relieving neuroendocrino-immunological effect inhibited by exogenous glucocorticoid. Zhongguo Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi. 1998 Jan;18(1):4-7. 2. Chen MD, Kuang AK, Chen JL. Influence of yang-restoring herb medicines upon metabolism of thyroid hormone in normal rats and a drug administration schedule. Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi. 1989 Feb;9(2):93-5, 70. 3. Gau S, Fu D, Zhang H. Advances in the study on the treatment of osteoporosis with Epimedium brevicornum and its compound prescription. Zhongguo Zhong Yao Za Zhi. 1999 Apr;24(4):249-51. 4. Gu Y, Meng G. Preparation conditions for decoction of Epimedium grandiflorum Morr. Zhongguo Zhong Yao Za Zhi. 1990 Jul;15(7):412-3, 446. 5. Kuang AK, Chen JL, Chen MD. Effects of yang-restoring herb medicines on the levels of plasma corticosterone, testosterone and triiodothyronine. Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi. 1989 Dec;9(12):737-8, 710. 6. Lee MK, Choi YJ, Sung SH, Shin DI, Kim JW, Kim YC. Antihepatotoxic activity of icariin, a major constituent of Epimedium koreanum. Planta Med. 1995 Dec;61(6):523-6. 7. Liang HR, Vuorela P, Vuorela H, Hiltunen R. Isolation and immunomodulatory effect of flavonol glycosides from Epimedium hunanense. Planta Med. 1997 Aug;63(4):316-9. 8. Liu ZY, Yang YG, Zheng B. Effect of improving memory and inhibiting acetylcholinesterase activity by invigorating-qi and warming-yang recipe. Zhongguo Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi. 1993 Nov;13(11):675-6, 646. 9. Peng G, Fu M, Zhang D. The experimental study about the relations between Chinese herb-epimedium leptorrhizum stearn (CH-ELS) and endogenous cAMP in alveolar bone of orthodontic tooth in rats. Zhonghua Kou Qiang Yi Xue Za Zhi. 1997 Jan;32(1):40-2. 10. Wu T, Cui L, Zhang Z, Chen Z, Li Q, Liao J, Huang L. Experimental study on antagonizing action of herba Epimedii on side effects induced by glucocorticoids. Zhongguo Zhong Yao Za Zhi. 1996 Dec;21(12):748-51, 763. 11. Yu S, Chen K, Li S, Zhang K. In vitro and in vivo studies of the effect of a Chinese herb medicine on osteoclastic bone resorption. Chin J Dent Res. 1999 Feb;2(1):7-11.

This also came from the net:
Exotic Asian Aphrodisiac
by Ray Sahelian, M.D.


Tongkat ali is a tree native to the jungles of Malaysia, Thailand, and Indonesia. It is commonly known as tongkat ali in Malaysia and Singapore, Piak or Tung Saw in Thailand, and Pasak Bumi in Indonesia. The tongkat ali (Eurycoma longifolia jack) tree can grow up to about 12 meters in height. Natives consider every part of the tree as medicine. The roots of tongkat ali have been used as traditional medicine to treat malaria. Tongkat ali is also promoted as a tonic and as an aphrodisiac.

Aphrodisiac properties
Over the past few years, there have been quite a number of studies (particularly in rodents) that have shown tongkat ali to have libido-boosting properties. Here's a detailed explanation of one of them.
The effects of tongkat ali were studied on the libido of male rats after dosing them with up to 800 mg per kilogram of body weight twice daily for 10 days (this is quite a high dose if the same dose is given to humans-- do the math: 800 mg tongkat ali powder times 70 k). Results showed that tongkat ali produced a dose-dependent increase in mounting frequency; that is, the number of times the male rats tried to mount the female rats increased as the dose given to the rats increased. In addition, the rats given tongkat ali displayed more frequent and vigorous licking and anogenital sniffing towards the receptive females. Furthermore, the rats dosed with tongkat ali spent more time grooming their genitals compared to the rats who were not given the plant. Genital grooming may be interpreted as self-pleasuring since the rats were most likely enjoying the sensation of touching themselves. The researchers noticed another interesting finding: while the rats who had not received tongkat ali showed normal behavior within the cage such as exploration and climbing the cage wall, the rats given tongkat ali hung around the females instead of exploring the cage. In terms of the human species, this may be interpreted as a man spending more time in the kitchen helping his wife dry the dishes than in the den half-asleep in a Lazyboy chair with the remote control in the left hand and a can of beer in the right while tuned to ESPN
Tongkat Ali mechanism of action
Little is known regarding the exact mechanisms of action of tongkat ali. Recent studies indicate that the root contains several compounds including beta-carboline alkaloids and quassinoid-type glycosides, including eurycomaoside. How these compounds and many others in tongkat ali influence hormonal release or the human sexual response is not clearly understood (at least by me) at this time. I have read promotional material by some vitamin companies and articles in health magazines that tongkat ali enhances testosterone production or release. Apparently some human trials have been conducted in Malaysia that indicate tongkat ali influences testosterone. However I have not been able to definitively confirm this claim through a Medline search. I would not be surprised if compounds within tongkat ali, such as glycoproteins, do influence blood or brain levels of testosterone. Whether this effect on testosterone continues with prolonged use is not fully understood. I would also not be surprised if compounds within tongkat ali influence sexuality in ways other than just testosterone or hormone effects.

Tongkat Ali Side Effects
I have read articles in health magazines promoting tongkat ali that it has wonderful benefits with absolutely no side effects. This is not true. Even though tongkat ali is effective as an herbal aphrodisiac, it does have shortcomings. One of the side effects of tongkat ali is that it can easily cause insomnia, even if it is taken in the morning. Lack of adequate sleep, when repeated over many days, can lower sex drive. Imagine getting sexually aroused by taking tongkat ali only to realize that you been inadvertently taking a high dose and you end up tossing and turning all night. It's easy to see that a sharp drop in sexual interest will occur since you rather doze off alone in your bed than cuddle with your partner.
I have personally tested various extracts of tongkat ali in different doses and realized that it has additional side effects not often mentioned in articles on in research papers. Many of my friends and patients have given me feedback regarding their personal experiences with tongkat ali. I am convinced that high doses can cause increased body temperature, which is not a good thing during hot and steamy days without air conditioning, but a good thing if you live in Alaska or enjoy taking a walk outside in cool weather. Some people find that when they take a high dose, they become restless and impatient, perhaps easily angered. Therefore, you don't want to swallow several capsules of tongkat ali if you expect to be driving in heavy traffic.
It is somewhat difficult to find the right dose and extract of tongkat ali that works without causing insomnia, and that's where an experienced herbalist who has wide knowledge with this plant is crucial in terms of formulating the right product with the right amount and extract potency of tongkat ali.

Long term side effects of Tongkat ali
Since long term human trials with tongkat ali have not been published, it would be best to take breaks from use. One option is to take tongkat ali 2 days on, 2 or more days off. Each person is different and will find their own best schedule.

Tongkat ali and energy
It is true that tongkat ali increases energy levels, and here again the right dose is crucial since too high a dose will give insomnia, leading to fatigue the next day. However, if you take the right amount which wears off by evening, then you'll be just fine and happy. it is thought that tongkat ali increases energy levels through its actions on ATP.

Tongkat Ali and Cancer
Beta-carboline alkaloids isolated from tongkat ali have demonstrated significant cytotoxicity against human lung cancer (A-549) and human breast cancer (MCF-7) cell lines. In plain English, this means that some compounds in Tongkat ali can kill cancer cells. The practical significance of this finding in humans is not clear at this time.

Tongkat Ali and Malaria
Scientists have found that, in addition to its sex-enhancing effects, compounds within tongkat ali have anti-malarial properties. Some of these anti-malaria compounds are known as quassinoids.




I found a number of trials relating Tongkat Ali with increased libido, although they were were all performed on rats. My particular favourite is the first one, I mean electricuting rodents when they get horny, and counting the number of "mountings, intromissions and ejaculations' - some lab technician really landed on his feet when he got that job!

- 'electrical copulation cage" LOL!

Eurycoma longifolia (tongkat ali) increases sexual motivation in sexually naive male rats.
Ang HH, Sim MK. tongkat ali research tongkat root tongkat erection University of Science, Malaysia, Minden, Singapore.
Arch Pharm Res. 1998 Dec;21(6):779-81.
The aim of this study is to provide evidence on the aphrodisiac property of Tongkat Ali . An electric grid was used as an obstruction in the electrical copulation cage in order to determine how much an aversive stimulus the sexually naive male rat for both the treated with Tongkat Ali and control groups were willing to overcome to reach the estrous receptive female in the goal cage. The intensity of the grid current was maintained at 0.12 mA and this was the intensity in which the male rats in the control group failed to crossover to reach the goal cage. Results showed that Tongkat Ali continued to enhance and also maintain a high level of both the total number of successful crossovers, mountings, intromissions and ejaculations during the 9-12th week observation period. In conclusion, these results further enhanced and strengthened the aphrodisiac property of Tongkat Ali.



Tongkat Ali Research Update
Eurycoma longifolia Jack enhances sexual motivation in middle-aged male mice.
Ang HH. University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia
J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2003;14(3):301-8.
Tongkat Ali was investigated for sexual motivation activity in adult, middle-aged male mice and in retired breeders, using the modified open field and the modified runway choice methods. Each mouse received 500 mg/kg of one of 4 fractions of E. longifolia Jack, viz. chloroform, methanol, butanol, and water, whereas the mice in the control and yohimbine groups received 3 ml/kg of normal saline and 30 mg/kg of yohimbine daily respectively for 10 d. The results show a transient increase in the percentage of male mice responding to the right choice after chronic consumption of the fractions with 50 percent of the adult middle-aged male mice treated with E. longifolia Jack and yohimbine scoring the right choice after 8 and 5 days post-treatment respectively. In conclusion, this study has shown that Tongkat Ali continues to enhance sexual motivation in adult, middle-aged male mice and in retired breeders.

Determination of mercury by cold vapor atomic absorption spectrophotometer in Tongkat Ali preparations obtained in Malaysia.
Ang HH, Lee EL. University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. [email protected]
Int J Toxicol. 2004 Jan-Feb;23(1):65-71.
The DCA (Drug Control Authority), Malaysia, has implemented the phase 3 registration of traditional medicines on 1 January 1992, with special emphasis on the quality, efficacy, and safety (including the presence of heavy metals) in all pharmaceutical dosage forms of traditional medicine preparations such as tongkat ali. As such, a total of 100 products in various pharmaceutical dosage forms of a herbal preparation, containing Tongkat Ali, were analyzed for mercury content using cold vapor atomic absorption spectrophotometer. Results showed that 36% of the tongkat ali products possessed 0.52 to 5.30 ppm of mercury and, therefore, do not comply with the quality requirement for traditional medicines in Malaysia. Out of these 36 tongkat ali products, 5 products that possessed 1.05 to 4.41 ppm of mercury were in fact have already registered with the DCA, Malaysia. However, the rest of the tongkat ali products that contain 0.52 to 5.30 ppm of mercury still have not registered with the DCA, Malaysia. Although this study showed that only 64% of the tongkat ali products complied with the quality requirement for traditional medicines in Malaysia pertaining to mercury, tongkat ali products cannot be assumed safe from mercury contamination because of batch-to-batch inconsistency.

Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Tongkat ali) on sexual qualities in middle aged male rats.
Phytomedicine. 2003;10(6-7):590-3.
The effects of Tongkat ali were studied on the sexual qualities of middle aged male rats after dosing them with 0.5 g/kg of various fractions of Tongkat ali whilst the control group received 3 ml/kg of normal saline daily for 12 weeks. Results showed than Tongkat ali enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats by decreasing their hesitation time as compared to controls. Besides these, there was a transient increase in the % of the male rats responding to the right choice after chronic administration of 0.5 g/kg Tongkat ali, with more than 50% of the male rats scored right choice after 2 weeks post-treatment and the effect was more prominent at the dose of the observation period. However, there was no sexual enhancement of the middle aged male rats which consumed normal saline since only 45-55% of the male rats responded to right choice throughout the investigation period. Hence, this study shows that Tongkat ali enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats, further supports the folk use of Tongkat ali as an aphrodisiac.

Effect of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Tongkat Ali) on libido in middle-aged male rats.
J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2002;13(3):249-54.
The effect of increasing doses of various fractions of Tongkat Ali extracts on libido was examined in middle-aged male rats. The results showed that a high dose (800 mg/kg) of all Tongkat Ali extracts significantly increased mount frequency (MF) over that of untreated controls, but had no effect on the frequency of intromission or ejaculation. Methanol, chloroform, water, and butanol Tongkat Ali fractions exhibited MF of 2.5 +/- 0.1, 2.6 +/- 0.3, 2.5 +/- 0.1 and 2.6 +/- 0.2, respectively, in adult, middle-aged male rats, and retired breeders versus 2.3 +/- 0.1 in untreated controls. This translated to a minor increase in MF of 8.7%, 13.0%, 8.7%, and 13.0% for these fractions, respectively, during the 20-minute observation period. The results of this study show that Tongkat Ali extracts can increase libido in middle-aged male rats.

Effect of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (tongkat ali) on orientation activities in middle-aged male rats.
Fundam Clin Pharmacol. 2002 Dec;16(6):479-83.
The effects of various fractions of Eurycoma longifolia Jack were studied on the orientation activities of the inbred, adult middle-aged Sprague-Dawley rats, 9 months old and retired breeders towards the receptive females (anogenital sniffing, licking, mounting), the environment (climbing, raring, exploration), themselves (nongenital grooming, genital grooming) and mobility (restricted, unrestricted) after treating these subjects twice daily for 10 days. Results showed that subjects treated with 800 mg/kg of E. longifolia Jack increased orientation activities towards the receptive females (anogenital sniffing, licking and mounting), increased genital grooming towards themselves and restricted movements to a particular area of the cage but decreased interest in the external environment (climbing, raring, exploration) as compared with the controls during the investigation period. In conclusion, this study gives further evidences that different fractions of E. longifolia Jack modified the orientation activities of the middle-aged male rats.

Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on levator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats.
Ang HH, Cheang HS. University Science Malaysia, Minden, 11800, Penang, Malaysia.
Arch Pharm Res. 2001 Oct;24(5):437-40.
It has been reported that Eurycoma longifolia Jack commonly known as Tongkat Ali has gained notoreity as a symbol of man's ego and strength by the Malaysian men because it increases male virility and sexual prowess during sexual activities. As such, the effects of 200, 400 and 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of Tongkat Ali were studied on the laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats after dosing them for 12 consecutive weeks. Results showed that 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of Tongkat Ali significantly increased (p<0.05) the leavator ani muscle to 58.56+/-1.22, 58.23+/-0.31, 60.21 +/-0.86 and 62.35 +/-0.98 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared with the control (untreated) in the uncastrated intact male rats and 49.23+/-0.82, 52.23+/-0.36, 50.21+/-0.66 and 52.35+/-0.58 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared to control (untreated) in the testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats. Hence, the pro-androgenic effect as shown by this study further supported the traditional use of Tongkat Ali as an aphrodisiac.

Aphrodisiac evaluation in non-copulator male rats after chronic administration of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Tongkat Ali).
Fundam Clin Pharmacol. 2001 Aug;15(4):265-8.
The aphrodisiac effect of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Tongkat Ali) (0.5 g/kg) was evaluated in noncopulator male rats using an electrical cage. Fractions of Tongkat Ali decreased the hesitation time of noncopulator male rats, throughout the investigation period. Furthermore, it possessed a transient increase in the percentage of the male rats responding to the right choice, more than 50% of the male rats scored "right choice" after 3 weeks post Tongkat Ali treatment and the effect became more prominent after 8 weeks post-treatment (only 40-50% of the control male rats responded to the right choice) using the electrical copulation cage. Hence, this study lends further support to the use of the Tongkat Ali plant by indigenous populations as a traditional medicine for its aphrodisiac property.

I have tons of information on Tribulis Terrestris, but it is probably too much for one post - i'll post it soon.

p.s. Have you ever heared of the Israeli bidybuilder Sagi Kalev (thinking you might have done Just Jacked, as that's where you're from - won the Mr Israel title 3 times)
-He has an awsome physique def not a schmalzel or a Schlemeil!

 

[JustJacked]

Thanks for the info Sports scientist. And yes ive heard of him but I live in Canada . Hes pretty jacked! hes got a perfect physique. he doesnt look all druged up some the top pros.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

REsults from tribulus are dosage dependant. If you don't take enough you aren't gonna see results, period.

Every time I take it I get ALOT hornier and notice several positive benefits when "doing it".

I can only guess that when a person says they didn;t get results from tribulus that they either have alot of LH action going on normally, used a crappy product or didn't use enough.

You take 1-2 tabs of ibuprofen and you'll feel the effects. If you use a 1/4 tab of one you probably wouldn't notice anything.

Most things are dosage dependant.

 

[blut wump]

REsults from tribulus are dosage dependant. If you don't take enough you aren't gonna see results, period.

Every time I take it I get ALOT hornier and notice several positive benefits when "doing it".

I can only guess that when a person says they didn;t get results from tribulus that they either have alot of LH action going on normally, used a crappy product or didn't use enough.

You take 1-2 tabs of ibuprofen and you'll feel the effects. If you use a 1/4 tab of one you probably wouldn't notice anything.

Most things are dosage dependant.

What brand and dosage were you running? How long had you been using it before you noticed results clearly attributable to the tribulus? Were you running any other test or libido enhancing products along with the tribulus?

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I have never used AAS technically, but I have done a 3.5 week cycle of 1-AD at 700mgs a day and am on the beginning of the second week of my currect md1t cycle at 12mgs a day.

When I have used Tribulus I wasn't on anything at the time. I've used Optimum Nutrition's Tribulus 625 which I like and started seriously feeling by the second day using 3-4 caps a day if I remember correctly and MRM's Tribest which I took 3 caps a day, but didn't like as much as the ON trib.

Right now I have a bottle of Biotest Tribex and a bottle of ON tribulus. I suspect that the Tribex will be the strongest by a good bit after seeing some lab sheets showing it's protodioscin content from another site. Also want to try Tribestan which should be very good too, if not better than the Tribex. Also want to try IDS LH boost and Nutrex Vitrix.

I'm gonna use the trib after my 3 week cycle of md1t. Gonna use 4 caps Tribex a day and an additional 2-3 ON cap's with that. I'm gonna be horny as hell off it lol.

I know it works because I feel a little better, but where I really notice it is sex drive. I am alot hornier, get harder, stay that way longer and bust bigger loads and can bust more of them. Also I wake up with some morning wood. I love it. That's all the proof I need.

When I'm not on Trib I can see and feel the difference, most specifically where sex drive and performance is concerned.

I'm 24 btw. I believe that when I was using ON and MRM Tribulus that I was not using an optimal dosage because the most I used of ON a day was 1875-2500mgs a day and 2250mgs a day with MRM, but even with sub-optimal osing I got results, more so with the ON brand than MRM leading me to believe that the ON product is superior to MRM's. I believe 3000-3500mgs a day is the best bet for your typical Tribulus product divided in 2 daily dosages. Now for something more potent like Biotest Tribex, Alpha Male, Nutrex Vitrix, or Sopharma Tribestan I think using the max recommended dosage is the way to go imo.