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tiggerizme
Banned
swordfish151 said:
This indeed is the correct answer. Rule of thumb is exactly that, a guesstimate. If available this will give you the most accurate response.
Time off between cycles?
- Thread starter Thracian
- Start date
This indeed is the correct answer. Rule of thumb is exactly that, a guesstimate. If available this will give you the most accurate response.
bigmouth2006
New member
gautho said:
i can't remember were i heard that but i will try to look it up
What I'm trying to find out is how soon the receptors become sensitive again.
Apparently they do not downregulate immediately at least but may after 6-8 months. RE:
J Biol Chem. 1985 Jan 10;260(1):455-61.
Mechanism of androgen-receptor augmentation. Analysis of receptor synthesis and degradation by the density-shift technique.
Syms AJ, Norris JS, Panko WB, Smith RG.
Receptors are continually being degraded and remanufactured in cells, so they never really clog up and require cleaning. I think this is a sort of fanciful way of talking about receptor upregulation/downregulation, which is a complex topic. “Do gains slow because receptors downregulate (decrease in number and/or sensitivity) during a cycle?” is probably a more accurate way of posing the question. There are conflicting data in this regard. Short-term in vitro and in vivo studies generally show that androgens upregulate the androgen receptor (AR) in skeletal muscle. For example, in humans given 15 mg of oxandrolone daily for 5 days, the skeletal muscle AR density nearly doubled (1). When exposed to testosterone in vitro, skeletal muscle AR expression increased significantly (2).
In longer-term studies the picture is somewhat different. One study looked at AR expression in androgen treated sedentary rats vs nontreated exercised rats over 8 weeks. The androgen treated rats showed a decrease in the number of receptors, whereas the exercise trained rats showed an increase. (3) Unfortunately, the authors failed to address the question of interest to bodybuilders, and that would be the combined effects of exercise and androgen use on skeletal muscle AR regulation.
In long term studies in humans we get yet a different picture. In work conducted by Sheffield-Moore et. al., (4) older men were supplemented with testosterone so as to bring their testosterone levels into the mid to high physiological range. Androgen receptor expression had more than doubled after one month of treatment, yet by 6 months had returned to baseline. If this downregulation occurs when supraphysiological doses of testosterone are used, it could very well explain why gains tend to slow during a long cycle. END QUOTE
Everyone's (I have anyway) experienced a slowdown in gains on long cycles and at least anecdotally there's some evidence that down regulation does occur at the 6-8 month mark. I'm curious as to the minimum time to take off regarding when you'll respond again as in the beginning??
Apparently they do not downregulate immediately at least but may after 6-8 months. RE:
J Biol Chem. 1985 Jan 10;260(1):455-61.
Mechanism of androgen-receptor augmentation. Analysis of receptor synthesis and degradation by the density-shift technique.
Syms AJ, Norris JS, Panko WB, Smith RG.
Receptors are continually being degraded and remanufactured in cells, so they never really clog up and require cleaning. I think this is a sort of fanciful way of talking about receptor upregulation/downregulation, which is a complex topic. “Do gains slow because receptors downregulate (decrease in number and/or sensitivity) during a cycle?” is probably a more accurate way of posing the question. There are conflicting data in this regard. Short-term in vitro and in vivo studies generally show that androgens upregulate the androgen receptor (AR) in skeletal muscle. For example, in humans given 15 mg of oxandrolone daily for 5 days, the skeletal muscle AR density nearly doubled (1). When exposed to testosterone in vitro, skeletal muscle AR expression increased significantly (2).
In longer-term studies the picture is somewhat different. One study looked at AR expression in androgen treated sedentary rats vs nontreated exercised rats over 8 weeks. The androgen treated rats showed a decrease in the number of receptors, whereas the exercise trained rats showed an increase. (3) Unfortunately, the authors failed to address the question of interest to bodybuilders, and that would be the combined effects of exercise and androgen use on skeletal muscle AR regulation.
In long term studies in humans we get yet a different picture. In work conducted by Sheffield-Moore et. al., (4) older men were supplemented with testosterone so as to bring their testosterone levels into the mid to high physiological range. Androgen receptor expression had more than doubled after one month of treatment, yet by 6 months had returned to baseline. If this downregulation occurs when supraphysiological doses of testosterone are used, it could very well explain why gains tend to slow during a long cycle. END QUOTE
Everyone's (I have anyway) experienced a slowdown in gains on long cycles and at least anecdotally there's some evidence that down regulation does occur at the 6-8 month mark. I'm curious as to the minimum time to take off regarding when you'll respond again as in the beginning??
