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This torture started at the very top

WODIN

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This torture started at the very top

A profound racism infects the US and British establishments

Ahdaf Soueif
Wednesday May 5, 2004
The Guardian

The media in this country is politely shocked at photos of Iraqis being tortured and humiliated by US and British soldiers. A BBC1 news presenter says the pictures seem to have been "merely mementos". That's all right, then. The folks at home will have a good laugh and paste them into the family album.

In the first half of the last century, the French in Algeria and Morocco used to send home postcards of prostitutes posing sullenly, with breasts bared and skirts pulled up to their thighs, over captions like "Le harem Arabe" or "Fille Mauresque". The Americans have pushed it further: their pornography of occupation is at once more childish, playful, crude and sinister than that of "old Europe". Also, we assume the prostitutes were paid.

BBC commentators and British politicians have been reminding us that the soldiers' activities "do not compare with Saddam Hussein's systematic tortures and executions". Hussein is now the moral compass of the west.

The media are fearful that these images will go down badly in the Arab world because "they show Muslim men being humiliated by American women". Again the not-so-subtle reduction of the Arab world to an entity that reacts only to religious prodding. Actually the photographs have confirmed people's belief that the US and Britain are not in Iraq as an act of goodwill. They have strengthened the feeling that there is a deep racism underlying the occupiers' attitudes to Arabs, Muslims and the third world generally.

It was only a matter of time. In the past year the world has seen photos of many Iraqis stripped with their wrists tied behind their backs with plastic cord. At first we could look into their eyes and bear witness to what was happening. Then they were bagged. At no point was there an outcry.

We have grown used to seeing Arab men bound and hooded, in the occupied territories and Gaza. Israel advises the US on how to control civilians and interrogate them. Ariel Sharon has made the Israeli army's "rules of engagement" available to the US military. The world notes the similarity between the practices of the US army in Iraq and those of the Israeli army in Palestine. There is evidence that scenes like the ones now shocking the world have been common in "Facility 1391" (Israel's secret prison), and some say in other jails. We just haven't seen the photos.

It is no use for US spokesmen to talk about "rogue elements", how "contractors" are not answerable to the military and how Staff Sergeant Chip Frederick had not read the Geneva conventions before taking charge of prisoners at Abu Ghraib. This abuse is going to turn out to be widespread. Amnesty International has already said it is systematic.

The acts in the photos being flashed across the networks would not have taken place but for the profound racism that infects the American and British establishments. At squaddie level, Sarah Oliver reports in the Mail on Sunday that "the British soldiers loathe the dirtiness of Iraq and the native population's slothfulness, kleptomania and determination to do as little as possible for themselves".

There have been reports of US troops outside Falluja talking of the fun of being a sniper, of the different ways to kill people, of the "rat's nest" that needs cleaning out. Some will say soldiers will be soldiers. But that language has been used by neocons at the heart of the US administration; both Kenneth Adelman and Paul Wolfowitz have spoken of "snakes" and "draining the swamps" in the "uncivilised parts of the world". It is implicit in the US administration's position that anyone who does not agree that all of history has been moving towards a glorious pinnacle expressed in the US political, ideological and economic system has "rejected modernity"; that it is America's mission to civilise and to punish.

I've seen a photo of a young American soldier with two Iraqi boys. There is no nakedness or torture, but it is no less nasty for that. The boys are holding a cardboard sign. They and the soldier are smiling and doing a thumbs up. He is pointing at the cardboard sign, on which he's written: "Lcpl Boudreaux killed my Dad. then he knocked up my sister!" Imagine the scene: Lance Corporal Boudreaux, a soldier on a liberating, civilising mission, asks the natives to pose for a "memento". He gives them the sign to hold. What lie did he tell them about its message? "Iraq is liberated", or "Mission accomplished"? And who, in this scene, is the more civilised?

The one good thing in all of this is that there are soldiers in the US and British armies who could not live with what was happening and who blew the whistle. The world needs to see the photos coming out of Iraq not as "deviant" but as an authentic message from the heart of the thought system that is seeking to control our planet.
 
gimme a break dude, it was hardly torture.

it was some idiot soldiers screwing off.....

people need to get over it.....shit happens. that article is crap
 
jerkbox said:
gimme a break dude, it was hardly torture.

it was some idiot soldiers screwing off.....

people need to get over it.....shit happens. that article is crap
Take a broom stick and shove it up your ass.

Report back how you feel about it.
 
i guess maybe we should just burn them to crisps and drag trhem through the streets?

that would be more inline with Muslim ideals eh?

or hook their balls up to car batteries?

push them off tall buildings?


point is, it's a war, shit happens....discipline the soldiers responsible and move on.

if this was a directive "from the top" know one would ever know about it.
 
I agree with Jerkbox to a point but I also think the article raises some valid points. There is certainly underlying racism and bigotry in U.S. foreign policy as a whole. George says 'if you're not with us, you're against us' but he might just as well have said 'if you're not like us, you're against us'....

Let me also make clear I'm not knocking Bush alone (although I think he has taken it to a new level) as the conflict in question and U.S. government policy surrounding it is not an isolated incident without precedent...
 
This is all liberal bullshit. You didn't hear night and day about the rape and god knows what else Jessica Lynch went through. You didn't see the detailed photos of our crispy torched security guys being dragged through the streets. The humiliation pratice is common among ALL arab states. You don't see those states OUTRAGED and outspoken every day. We ended TONS more torture that Saddam performed.

Who knows what our guys would have went through if hundreds of them would have been captured. This was 4 to 7 people who did this. Look at the hundreds of ARABS who dance through the streets like wild baboons when even one american gets slaughtered. It's fucking rediculous. You think Kerry or Clinton would fix anything? It's Clinton's fault we're in this anyway. Fucking liberals just don't want to be bothered by anything. They want to him haw around, blow shit out of proportion and lie until someone else deals with it- then they can blame the new guy who inherits the problem. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!
 
jerkbox said:
i guess maybe we should just burn them to crisps and drag trhem through the streets?

that would be more inline with Muslim ideals eh?

or hook their balls up to car batteries?

push them off tall buildings?


point is, it's a war, shit happens....discipline the soldiers responsible and move on.

if this was a directive "from the top" know one would ever know about it.
You're saying it was hardly turtore. You must have listened to Rush yesterday.

I'm saying if someone forces a stick up my ass I'd call it torture.

Do you have a polinoildal cyst on your ass? Rush did...that's how he evaded the vietnam draft. He had a leaky hole in his ass. At least his family doctor said so but he was never seen by the draft board doc.

So I geuss if you have a leaky ass then it's not torture.

All things are relative.

But then there is this Royal MP in Britain who tells a somewhat different story.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3691857.stm
 
DANABOLIC55 said:
This is all liberal bullshit. You didn't hear night and day about the rape and god knows what else Jessica Lynch went through. You didn't see the detailed photos of our crispy torched security guys being dragged through the streets. The humiliation pratice is common among ALL arab states. You don't see those states OUTRAGED and outspoken every day. We ended TONS more torture that Saddam performed.

Who knows what our guys would have went through if hundreds of them would have been captured. This was 4 to 7 people who did this. Look at the hundreds of ARABS who dance through the streets like wild baboons when even one american gets slaughtered. It's fucking rediculous. You think Kerry or Clinton would fix anything? It's Clinton's fault we're in this anyway. Fucking liberals just don't want to be bothered by anything. They want to him haw around, blow shit out of proportion and lie until someone else deals with it- then they can blame the new guy who inherits the problem. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!

That's bullshit. I love how all the 'non-Liberals' keep talking about the Americans that were tragically killed and mutilated (I agree it is 'abhorrent' to use a Bushism). The rules of engagement are different. One side is an invasion force and the other has been invaded.

If a foreign power invaded my country under false pretenses, I'd be dancing in the streets every time I killed one of the bastards to.

Plus, if you have a problem with your fellow countrymen being killed and maimed, vote that lying prick in the Oval Office that's responsible for this out of power. OPEN YOUR EYES
 
Britain and America signed the Geneva Convention, Iraq hasn't. Play by the rules you agree to.

We're the invading force. Liberation & spreading "hypocracy" my arse. No bloody way I'd accept conscription to go to Iraq. Someone invades my island then I'll take up arms.

Like myself, most if any of you have never been POWs or professional soldiers, yet you watch "The Great Escape" or read "Brave Two Zero" or a tabloid/ "factual report. documentary" & think you have a clue. You can't draw serious opinions from experiences that you haven't lived, lol.
 
DANABOLIC55 said:
This is all liberal bullshit. You didn't hear night and day about the rape and god knows what else Jessica Lynch went through. You didn't see the detailed photos of our crispy torched security guys being dragged through the streets. The humiliation pratice is common among ALL arab states. You don't see those states OUTRAGED and outspoken every day. We ended TONS more torture that Saddam performed.

Who knows what our guys would have went through if hundreds of them would have been captured. This was 4 to 7 people who did this. Look at the hundreds of ARABS who dance through the streets like wild baboons when even one american gets slaughtered. It's fucking rediculous. You think Kerry or Clinton would fix anything? It's Clinton's fault we're in this anyway. Fucking liberals just don't want to be bothered by anything. They want to him haw around, blow shit out of proportion and lie until someone else deals with it- then they can blame the new guy who inherits the problem. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!
Alright another neo-con, blame everything on clinton, redneck dick head.
 
If you guys don't know by now, I am over here with these guys working as a contractor. I've been in combat myself as a soldier, and I can tell you that long deployments bring stress and boredom and GIs WILL find something to do when you mix those two "bad chemicals". This was an unfortunate thing. Simply put, the military justice system needs to SWIFTLY and FAIRLY discipline the soldiers responsible. It's hard to say whether or not the civilians in DC (Rummy and company) should go down over this. On one hand, they are not there to control it. However, on the other hand, they did set the climate by extending deployments after setting dates for the soldiers to come home. Some soldiers even state that their equipment is "poor". Some have even told me that they don't even think they should be there anymore because they didn't find any WMDs. Also, there seems to be a resemblance of an exit strategy, but we have a real habit of "hanging out" in countries we've invaded--you know what I'm saying? This is NOT the first time anyone has taken pictures of EPWs/detainees. TRUST ME, it's not!!!!!!!! And, I don't believe it will be the last.
 
im sure that photo was fake

anyway, its a major slip up and the torture was wrong as it served no purpose other than to humiliate oppsoing troops.

In WW2 the japsused to kill americans they captured. the US, when advancing didnt havetime to take prisoners and there are many instances where japs were killed afterhaving surrendered. point is the times required it and while it isnt nice, i wouldnt have a problem with it

this kind of stuff only makes the army appear more racist than it is and ruins PRin a notoriously sexist and homophobic part of the world/religion/culture.

The brit stuff on the other hand is fairly tame. their pics are just urination and body blows...the american stuff goes one step beyond. eitherside shouldnt have photoed the stuff and it needs to be stamped out
 
WODIN said:
Alright another neo-con, blame everything on clinton, redneck dick head.


Because I don't follow the herd and agree with the media, that makes me a redneck dickhead? Calling people names for such is just as redneck.

I voted for Clinton in 92 and 96. But when the "what is IS" shit, the Lewinski shit, the selling secrets to the Chinese shit, the Blackhawk down shit, the degredation of the military, and yes the FAILURE to get Osama shit happened, then yes I blame the CURRENT situation on him. Mind you, he also bombed Saddam for the failure of destroying the WMD's. But thats it , he never followed up. He also led us into Kosovo- & we're still there. He also pussed out in Somalia. What about Waco, Ruby Ridge?
And now, what does the Dem party have to offer- Kerry? another fucking liar.
"I don't own an SUV, but my wife does"
" I didn't throw away my medals , I threw away the ribbons"
"I actually voted for it - before I voted against it"
What kind of shit is that????
It's already started with this clown.
Bush is a dumbass , but at least he's got balls and courage of his conviction. Yes, the stupid soldiers that did this shit should be punished and the soddomizing is torture. But, I'm not letting the fact that Bush is trying to take my roids away , cloud my vision.
People fail to see that the people to blame for this are the terrorists. They started it.
 
banana.gif


I aint saying it is right, it is wrong to abuse a prisoner. However, if it were me over there and some bastard just shot two of the soldiers fighting next to me. When I captured them, I can not say I would not stomp their ass. I know I would kick their teeth out, hit them with my rifle, and beat them. I wont lie about it and pretend I would be a good boy. They have been ambushing our troops, and some of them got roughed up. It is not right, but I would help kick those chickenshits all over the jailhouse in a New York second.

banana.gif
 
Sh4dowF4lcon said:
banana.gif


I aint saying it is right, it is wrong to abuse a prisoner. However, if it were me over there and some bastard just shot two of the soldiers fighting next to me. When I captured them, I can not say I would not stomp their ass. I know I would kick their teeth out, hit them with my rifle, and beat them. I wont lie about it and pretend I would be a good boy. They have been ambushing our troops, and some of them got roughed up. It is not right, but I would help kick those chickenshits all over the jailhouse in a New York second.

banana.gif

I agree but you'd also do most of the same stuff those 'chickenshits' are doing if someone invaded your country....
 
Sh4dowF4lcon said:
banana.gif


I aint saying it is right, it is wrong to abuse a prisoner. However, if it were me over there and some bastard just shot two of the soldiers fighting next to me. When I captured them, I can not say I would not stomp their ass. I know I would kick their teeth out, hit them with my rifle, and beat them. I wont lie about it and pretend I would be a good boy. They have been ambushing our troops, and some of them got roughed up. It is not right, but I would help kick those chickenshits all over the jailhouse in a New York second.

banana.gif


I agree, HOWEVER I would NOT take pictures and pose for the camera while doing it...
 
BluePeter, you are correct unless the dictator who was removed had been raping the young girls in my community or cutting off their tongue, chopping of arms etc... If china invaded, I would be waiting for them and I would do the same things.

Forge, I agree, posing and taking pics was stupid.

It is wrong, to abuse a prisoner, but I would do it if they were shooting grenades at me or my fellow soldiers.
 
Shadowfalcon / Texas Tornado .


Do you like have multiple computers going or do you log in and off to post under your plethera of hanldes.

You're fucking weird.
 
i don't listen to rush, nor am i republican, nor am i a democrat. and I am sure as hell not a Bush supporter


the point is, IT'S A GODDAMN WAR. there's always going to be morons who do this type of shit.

One discrepency occured.....punish the soldiers appropriately, and move on. Ths PC fucking bullshit has gone way too goddamn far.

we are playing by the rules, it's impossible to police the actions of 135,000 troops in a warzone.

wodin, i know you're intelligent enough to realize this. it's simply common sense.
I'm not a fan of this war either, but let's be realistic here.
 
WODIN said:
Shadowfalcon / Texas Tornado .


You're *edit* weird.

I have several computers running at my office, but I am just working with one this morning. Yes I am weird, no secret there. Pcsupport hosts one and EF is hosting the other. Thanks for the feedback, and I hope you get drafted assbucket
weird_thread.gif
 
Texas_Tornado said:
BluePeter, you are correct unless the dictator who was removed had been raping the young girls in my community or cutting off their tongue, chopping of arms etc... .

Totally agree but that ain't why Bushy said he was going there (until the other reasons were proved to be bullshit) was it?
 
bluepeter said:
Totally agree but that ain't why Bushy said he was going there (until the other reasons were proved to be bullshit) was it?

I really couldn't care less why we are there. As long as the terrorists have no safe haven and keep getting their asses pounded on their turf when they come up for air. I support regime change in Iraq. After 911, I support whatever we do to defend our freedom. They killed a bunch of innocent people and if you dont think Saddam sent $$ to AlQueda you are foolish.

I dont expect to change your perspective. You dont think we should be there, fine. I enjoy going to work without some arab bastard flying a plane into my building. or any building.

Later
 
Sh4dowF4lcon said:
I really couldn't care less why we are there. As long as the terrorists have no safe haven and keep getting their asses pounded on their turf when they come up for air. I support regime change in Iraq. After 911, I support whatever we do to defend our freedom. They killed a bunch of innocent people and if you dont think Saddam sent $$ to AlQueda you are foolish.

I dont expect to change your perspective. You dont think we should be there, fine. I enjoy going to work without some arab bastard flying a plane into my building. or any building.

Later

There's no problem with being there if it was done right and without the lies. I also support regime change in Iraq for obvious reasons. The fact remains though that there never was and continues to be no evidence that Iraq had anything to do with Al Quaeda. There also are obviously no WMD to be found. Were those not the reasons dubya initially espoused as justification for invasion? And did his cowboy attitude not make it a basically solo mission for America?
 
the truth is america with ther 25 allies and superior fire power can't hack it , fucking bullies and cowards , who had no fucking right to go in there in the first place they are killing many more civilians then combatents, and still get ther cowardly arse handed to them. I hope the rest of the arab world starts helping iraq
 
winny100 said:
fucking bullies and cowards , who had no fucking right to go in there in the first place
I agree with that part.
 
Texas_Tornado said:
I have several computers running at my office, but I am just working with one this morning. Yes I am weird, no secret there. Pcsupport hosts one and EF is hosting the other. Thanks for the feedback, and I hope you get drafted assbucket
weird_thread.gif
Anytime fucknut.

Trust me if there is a draft you would go waaaaay before I would. In fact. I wouldn't go at all. AH AH AH!!!! HA!!!

Hope you get fucked up the ass with broom stick.
 
On the brit RMP investigation:

The guy who published this is Piers Morgan........most people wouldnt put it past him to fake it just to sell more papers. The RMPs are questioning the authenticity of the pics themselves.

Having said all of that, if brits are doing this then they need to be disciplined. War is tough.........but there are rules for a reason. You cant run around breaking those rules just because war is apparently tough.


WODIN said:
You're saying it was hardly turtore. You must have listened to Rush yesterday.

I'm saying if someone forces a stick up my ass I'd call it torture.

Do you have a polinoildal cyst on your ass? Rush did...that's how he evaded the vietnam draft. He had a leaky hole in his ass. At least his family doctor said so but he was never seen by the draft board doc.

So I geuss if you have a leaky ass then it's not torture.

All things are relative.

But then there is this Royal MP in Britain who tells a somewhat different story.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3691857.stm
 
Sh4dowF4lcon said:
banana.gif


I aint saying it is right, it is wrong to abuse a prisoner. However, if it were me over there and some bastard just shot two of the soldiers fighting next to me. When I captured them, I can not say I would not stomp their ass. I know I would kick their teeth out, hit them with my rifle, and beat them. I wont lie about it and pretend I would be a good boy. They have been ambushing our troops, and some of them got roughed up. It is not right, but I would help kick those chickenshits all over the jailhouse in a New York second.

banana.gif

Wouldnt beating a prisoner with a rifle whilst they were in your jailhouse make you the chickenshit?
 
I've seen a photo of a young American soldier with two Iraqi boys. There is no nakedness or torture, but it is no less nasty for that. The boys are holding a cardboard sign. They and the soldier are smiling and doing a thumbs up. He is pointing at the cardboard sign, on which he's written: "Lcpl Boudreaux killed my Dad. then he knocked up my sister!" Imagine the scene: Lance Corporal Boudreaux, a soldier on a liberating, civilising mission, asks the natives to pose for a "memento". He gives them the sign to hold. What lie did he tell them about its message? "Iraq is liberated", or "Mission accomplished"? And who, in this scene, is the more civilised?

i thought it was established that this picture was a fake...
 
DANABOLIC55 said:
This is all liberal bullshit. You didn't hear night and day about the rape and god knows what else Jessica Lynch went through. You didn't see the detailed photos of our crispy torched security guys being dragged through the streets. The humiliation pratice is common among ALL arab states. You don't see those states OUTRAGED and outspoken every day. We ended TONS more torture that Saddam performed.

Who knows what our guys would have went through if hundreds of them would have been captured. This was 4 to 7 people who did this. Look at the hundreds of ARABS who dance through the streets like wild baboons when even one american gets slaughtered. It's fucking rediculous. You think Kerry or Clinton would fix anything? It's Clinton's fault we're in this anyway. Fucking liberals just don't want to be bothered by anything. They want to him haw around, blow shit out of proportion and lie until someone else deals with it- then they can blame the new guy who inherits the problem. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!


OK so you want us to open our eyes to your point of view, which decalres we should act like Iraqis? So it's NOT OK to be anything or do anything remotely related to the Iraqi's UNLESS it's stepping down to their level and treating our POW's like they do our POW's?

Ya make no sense dude.
 
Some of you guys need to come back on earth. This was hardly torture, just the usual stuff you find during war time. Our AIrborne regiment was doing even worse to welcome their new recruits. And who cares except some bloody liberals ?
 
DANABOLIC55 said:
People fail to see that the people to blame for this are the terrorists. They started it.

but not the "iraqi" terrorists. last time i checked most of the terrorists who attacke the u.s. were saudi.
 
This whole thing is a massive debacle.

The U.S attacks a country which it clearly has no right to attack, it then tries to justify that attack on 'humanitarian' grounds of removng a repressive regime and tries to sell it like that to the world, only to have the whole thing thrown back in their face by an incompetent military leadership who knew about and did nothing to prevent the torture which the U.S supposedly liberated the Iraqi people from when they removed Saddam.
 
Burning_Inside said:
OK so you want us to open our eyes to your point of view, which decalres we should act like Iraqis? So it's NOT OK to be anything or do anything remotely related to the Iraqi's UNLESS it's stepping down to their level and treating our POW's like they do our POW's?

Ya make no sense dude.

No........I'm saying that Our media is hyping this up way out of proportion- more so than it's own people going through just as bad or worse treatment. It's not right that these people got humiliated. But it's really not right when our guys get mutilated, set on fire and hung from a bridge-BIG DIFFERENCE. THAT story lasted 2-3 days before everybody moved on & you never saw the pictures unless you REALLY researched the net to get them.
You can't escape this story- it's everywhere because the media wants to stick it home to Bush- Plain & simple. These prisoners are in jail for a reason- they're not saints. They fired upon OUR guys- guys who would have done nothing to them if they wouldn't have ATTACKED them. They attack food convoys and fuel conscripts- hardly true military targets. They do it to TERRORIZE us into leaving. But, if they get caught- it's club med at the Americans expense- Bullshit. If dude has to wear some panties on his head for firing an RPG at an american Food convoy- so be it. Shitty things happen to people everyday- not a fraction of these prisoners get treated like this. This is war and they're in jail. A lot worse has happened to better people.
 
TQpew said:
but not the "iraqi" terrorists. last time i checked most of the terrorists who attacke the u.s. were saudi.

You're right. The Saudi's are hardly our friends. But the "war"started in Taliban supported Afghanistan.

Look- the whole thing is politics at it's most surgical. I dont' believe everything GW says. I'm just defending our guys and it pisses me off that the media uses lives for it's own agendas.
 
jerkbox said:
i guess maybe we should just burn them to crisps and drag trhem through the streets?

that would be more inline with Muslim ideals eh?

or hook their balls up to car batteries?

push them off tall buildings?


point is, it's a war, shit happens....discipline the soldiers responsible and move on.

if this was a directive "from the top" know one would ever know about it.
uhh...if your going to go as far as stick a broom up some guys ass, its obviously because your a bored sick psycho sadistic fucker, who has nothing better to do with the PRISONERS.

i say we let those fuckers who tortured the already captured and harmless PRISONERS lose 1 to 5 huge guys (them with no weapons of course) and the 5 guys have a beatdown sodemy fest.
 
DANABOLIC55 said:
This is all liberal bullshit. You didn't hear night and day about the rape and god knows what else Jessica Lynch went through. You didn't see the detailed photos of our crispy torched security guys being dragged through the streets. EYES!!!!!
jessica lynch wasnt even raped or anything...she said that they treated her very nicely and didnt harm her....

also we wer ehearing bullshit about it for months
 
manny78 said:
Some of you guys need to come back on earth. This was hardly torture, just the usual stuff you find during war time. Our AIrborne regiment was doing even worse to welcome their new recruits. And who cares except some bloody liberals ?

No shit, Benning, GA. Look guys until this shit hit the fan alot of the crap(sleep deprivation,denying food,leaving prisoners bound and naked etc.) they were doing was considered standard interrogations techniques, sorry to shatter your world.Except the sodomizing deal. Get used to it. War is the ultimate stupidity of mankind period...If you have truly been a soldier in war you know it and hate it but do your damn job anyway and hope you live to get home.When you catch guys doing this shit you bust their asses hard for it and go on, thats all you can do.Its not about Dems or Repubs or ,racism its about people. some choose right/some choose wrong. There are inherently good people over there and there are assholes too.Thats Humanity in General
 
DANABOLIC55 said:
Look- the whole thing is politics at it's most surgical. I dont' believe everything GW says. I'm just defending our guys and it pisses me off that the media uses lives for it's own agendas.
 
rpol said:
No shit, Benning, GA. Look guys until this shit hit the fan alot of the crap(sleep deprivation,denying food,leaving prisoners bound and naked etc.) they were doing was considered standard interrogations techniques, sorry to shatter your world.Except the sodomizing deal. Get used to it. War is the ultimate stupidity of mankind period...If you have truly been a soldier in war you know it and hate it but do your damn job anyway and hope you live to get home.When you catch guys doing this shit you bust their asses hard for it and go on, thats all you can do.Its not about Dems or Repubs or ,racism its about people. some choose right/some choose wrong. There are inherently good people over there and there are assholes too.Thats Humanity in General


Good post. I agree.
 
DANABOLIC55 said:
No........I'm saying that Our media is hyping this up way out of proportion- more so than it's own people going through just as bad or worse treatment. It's not right that these people got humiliated. But it's really not right when our guys get mutilated, set on fire and hung from a bridge-BIG DIFFERENCE. THAT story lasted 2-3 days before everybody moved on & you never saw the pictures unless you REALLY researched the net to get them.
You can't escape this story- it's everywhere because the media wants to stick it home to Bush- Plain & simple. These prisoners are in jail for a reason- they're not saints. They fired upon OUR guys- guys who would have done nothing to them if they wouldn't have ATTACKED them. They attack food convoys and fuel conscripts- hardly true military targets. They do it to TERRORIZE us into leaving. But, if they get caught- it's club med at the Americans expense- Bullshit. If dude has to wear some panties on his head for firing an RPG at an american Food convoy- so be it. Shitty things happen to people everyday- not a fraction of these prisoners get treated like this. This is war and they're in jail. A lot worse has happened to better people.

yawn

The same tired crap. Oh! They fired on our soldiers! What the fuck would you do if someone invaded your country? The exact same thing.

What the Iraqis have done to Americans is wrong and what Americans have done to Iraqis is wrong. The only argument here comes from the fact that dubya invaded on the premise of higher morals and we all know that's bullshit.
 
bluepeter said:
yawn

The same tired crap. Oh! They fired on our soldiers! What the fuck would you do if someone invaded your country? The exact same thing.

What the Iraqis have done to Americans is wrong and what Americans have done to Iraqis is wrong. The only argument here comes from the fact that dubya invaded on the premise of higher morals and we all know that's bullshit.

You're right- if they invaded our country I would fire upon them. But I wouldn't expect to be treated like gold if I got caught either.

If this wasn't an election year, this wouldn't be such a big story. The Dems and the liberal media have succeeded in dividing the county and the world against the US to serve their own agenda- plain & simple.
 
DANABOLIC55 said:
You're right- if they invaded our country I would fire upon them. But I wouldn't expect to be treated like gold if I got caught either.

If this wasn't an election year, this wouldn't be such a big story. The Dems and the liberal media have succeeded in dividing the county and the world against the US to serve their own agenda- plain & simple.

I wouldn't expect that either but, because George's reasons for invasion all turned out to be lies and he is seen as a warmonger, they must be held to a higher standard......

This has nothing to do with Dem's vs. Rep's and the upcoming election (although I will grant you the story will be beaten to death a little more due to it being an election year). It has everything to do with world perception of the U.S. invasion/occupation and their flawed foreign policy in general.
 
I'm glad I'm here.. But I think if it were me over there, and I was captured:

I'd much rather wear panties and be stripped, than being burned alive,
my body kicked/trampled upon and hung from a bridge, all captured on video..
 
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