this govt is not doing enough to help out...

[spongebob]

this is beginning to be bullshit and bush is going to start catching serious heat over this.

every damn resource shoulod be dispatched, it should have been dispatched days ago. people are dying at the superdome, it showed an elderly person in a wheelchair just pushed to the side and had a blanket over thier body. and another one dead on the floor next to that one.

this is rediculous, people have been living on rooftops for days now. they need to air drop food and water packages all over the area.

and its only getting worse, i cant believe more is not being done immediately. i know a lot is being done but it looks like the govt is reacting instead of being pro-active.

the entire national gaurd should have been dispatched if thats what it takes.

 

[Lestat]

I agree. Bush should have the army in there to clean up the riots and looting and be sending MASSIVE aide to save the stranded people who are slowly dying and pump that water out and restore power!!!

 

[DieselGunz]

i think they dragged there feet on this 2

I dont think they realized the damage that could have been done.

It is only going to get worse

 

[mylife]

i heard something on msnbc yesterday saying that they pulled 150+ officers from search and rescue and commited them to finding looters.

 

[spongebob]

I agree. Bush should have the army in there to clean up the riots and looting and be sending MASSIVE aide to save the stranded people who are slowly dying and pump that water out and restore power!!!

i cant believe it dude. im watching this shit on the tv and it is absolutely devastating. yea it should be massive amounts of food and water air lifted. whatever it takes, drop down sacks of stuff, they did that for the sunami people. why not here.

 

[starfish]

this is beginning to be bullshit and bush is going to start catching serious heat over this.

every damn resource shoulod be dispatched, it should have been dispatched days ago. people are dying at the superdome, it showed an elderly person in a wheelchair just pushed to the side and had a blanket over thier body. and another one dead on the floor next to that one.

this is rediculous, people have been living on rooftops for days now. they need to air drop food and water packages all over the area.

and its only getting worse, i cant believe more is not being done immediately. i know a lot is being done but it looks like the govt is reacting instead of being pro-active.

the entire national gaurd should have been dispatched if thats what it takes.

I agree! WTF is taking so long?

 

[HumorMe]

I agree. Bush should have the army in there to clean up the riots and looting and be sending MASSIVE aide to save the stranded people who are slowly dying and pump that water out and restore power!!!

The breakdown has happened at the local and state levels. These are the people that should be held responsible. Do some reading around the internet and find out more about what is happening.

It all started when the fucking mayor of NO was worried about legal ramifications about ordering a mandatory evacuation if this storm happened to elsewhere instead of NO.

The levees are breached and there is nowhere to pump the water.

 

[spongebob]

i think they dragged there feet on this 2

I dont think they realized the damage that could have been done.

It is only going to get worse

exactly, its like there still realizing how bad it is. get stuff in there now.

 

[jnevin]

I feel like it isn't real it's so awful to watch.

 

[spongebob]

I feel like it isn't real it's so awful to watch.

exactly, i told my dad last night its like its not even part of this country. its unreal, shit like this dont happen here. at least we dont believe it can.

 

[spongebob]

The breakdown has happened at the local and state levels. These are the people that should be held responsible. Do some reading around the internet and find out more about what is happening.
.

thats why the fed govt has to step it up very swiftly. the state and local govt just dont have the resources. the response should rival that of any relief effort before. what you see on tv you might as well multiply that by ten to get a real sense of it.

 

[HumorMe]

thats why the fed govt has to step it up very swiftly. the state and local govt just dont have the resources. the response should rival that of any relief effort before. what you see on tv you might as well multiply that by ten to get a real sense of it.

I believe they are required to ask for federal assistance in order for the feds to step in and they have reluctantly finally asked.

Bush can't be blamed for that.

 

[spongebob]

I believe they are required to ask for federal assistance in order for the feds to step in and they have reluctantly finally asked.

Bush can't be blamed for that.

i understand where your coming from but as president i would think he has broader powers to implement anything neccesarry. someone has to TAKE control and do something.

 

[Sweet_Bitch]

It seems to me that in the past...be it NYC, tsunami, Florida...we've acted MUCH faster. Do they not realize how bad it is or are could Bush just not be bothered on vacation??

 

[HumorMe]

i understand where your coming from but as president i would think he has broader powers to implement anything neccesarry. someone has to TAKE control and do something.

And he is. Coordinating this stuff takes time and lots of it. It's not like soldiers have been waiting at the entrance to NO since Monday. Logistics must be awful.

I feel your anger but blaming Bush imo looks more like a whipping post than anything.

Local and State governments have a larger hand in the conditions as they are now.

 

[SoKlueles]

that poor place looks like a 3rd world country right now
and its right here at home
scary as crap

 

[needtogetaas]

I have allways liked bush,but there is no exuse for this bull shit.he needs to clean his act up.

 

[Sweet_Bitch]

And he is. Coordinating this stuff takes time and lots of it. It's not like soldiers have been waiting at the entrance to NO since Monday. Logistics must be awful.

I feel your anger but blaming Bush imo looks more like a whipping post than anything.

Local and State governments have a larger hand in the conditions as they are now.

It's not just one person's fault, not by any means. Bush or otherwise. And yeah, logistics have got to be horrible. It's easy to form our opinion's from outside of the situation. But I gotta say, someone should high tail it down there and start taking control...requested or not.

 

[nycgirl]

It seems to me that in the past...be it NYC, tsunami, Florida...we've acted MUCH faster. Do they not realize how bad it is or are could Bush just not be bothered on vacation??

NYC is a different situation.
1) Its financially better off than the whole State of Louisiana.
2) That city has a history of being able to handle emergency situations and moving people. It is always prepared for something. Despite some of the problems experienced on 9/11, I don't think there is a city in the world that would have handled that matter any better.

Humor Me is right. Local & State governments are largely responsible for situations like this. The Feds always come in last. I do think they should be moving a lot quicker.

 

[n0th1ng]

I wonder how much aid Sri Lanka and Indonesia are going to send to the victims of Katrina...

 

[75th]

And he is. Coordinating this stuff takes time and lots of it. It's not like soldiers have been waiting at the entrance to NO since Monday. Logistics must be awful.

I feel your anger but blaming Bush imo looks more like a whipping post than anything.

Local and State governments have a larger hand in the conditions as they are now.

Indeed. Figures that people are quick to blame Bush.

 

[Sweet_Bitch]

I wonder how much aid Sri Lanka and Indonesia are going to send to the victims of Katrina...

Interesting....

 

[spongebob]

And he is. Coordinating this stuff takes time and lots of it. It's not like soldiers have been waiting at the entrance to NO since Monday. Logistics must be awful.

I feel your anger but blaming Bush imo looks more like a whipping post than anything.

Local and State governments have a larger hand in the conditions as they are now.

yea your right but now we need to develop a national response plan for emergencies like this. whatever it takes.

 

[75th]

yea your right but now we need to develop a national response plan for emergencies like this. whatever it takes.

We do have a response plan that was put into motion, but the ghetto low life gangs decided that they dont need no help from nobody. Not much can be done when the good people flying the helicopters and piloting the boats are too scared to go near the city.

 

[[email protected]]

Great post allot of good points.I dont blame Bush I agree that it rest entirely on the state until one they ask for help or two like this case its evadent they cant handle the situation.I cant understand for the life of me though why Navy (and I am Navy) wasnt off coast of Florida once Hurricane Katrina cleared standing by "just in case".I know they have road out plenty of Hurricanes and no one figured it would be as bad as it is But we train and train and train somore for worse case senareo ,guess thats why I dont get why we wernt standing by.
Also this fucking looting and snipers and all them idiot fucks running around with all this energy to raise havic taking advantage or others misfortune.I hope to see there sorry ass's getting offed with extream prejudace when CNN is reporting on the troops restoring order there.

 

[spongebob]

Indeed. Figures that people are quick to blame Bush.

hey im pro bush somewhat but as president i would have gotton the ground and then executed the biggest relief effort ever seen, permission or not.

 

[75th]

hey im pro bush somewhat but as president i would have gotton the ground and then executed the biggest relief effort ever seen, permission or not.

I know, and I wish for the same as you, but the presidency is bigger than one man. Certain channels need to be gone through in order to get anything done.

 

[Mavafanculo]

Dollars: FEMA funding decimated, federal funding for levy improvements in NO cut, due to tax cut for those who needed it least and to pay for the mess in iraq.

Manpower: LA national guard deployed in Iraq and recruitment goals not met as a result of same.

The chickens are all coming home to roost. This is only the beginning.

 

[75th]

Dollars: FEMA funding decimated, federal funding for levy improvements in NO cut, due to tax cut for those who needed it least and to pay for the mess in iraq.

Manpower: LA national guard deployed in Iraq and recruitment goals not met as a result of same.

The chickens are all coming home to roost. This is only the beginning.

Gimme a break.

 

[HumorMe]

Looks like the liberals are coming home to post.

 

[Mavafanculo]

Gimme a break.

refute if you can.

 

[75th]

refute if you can.

Okay, even though its retarded to try and refute nothing but heresay.

Answer this: If the state is so strained by the war in Iraq, why did the state only feel the need to call up 35% of the remaining National Guard? I only ask because you were obviously trying to get the point across that they were short on man power. Based on the relatively small number actually utilized, that is obviously not the case.

 

[HumorMe]

I just heard that 40,000 troops from Ft. Bragg have been mobilized. Could be a rumor but it was just announced on a Fayetteville, NC TV channel.

 

[Mavafanculo]

Okay, even though its retarded to try and refute nothing but heresay.

Answer this: If the state is so strained by the war in Iraq, why did the state only feel the need to call up 35% of the remaining National Guard? I only ask because you were obviously trying to get the point across that they were short on man power. Based on the relatively small number actually utilized, that is obviously not the case.

what I stated were facts not heresay. altho you may consider them heresy .

dont know that the number 35% is accurate, but why are they being required to bring in Nat Guard troops from other states (huge numbers, dont remember the exact figures)? and sending in army troops? because the guard is streched from iraq deployment. remeber these are weekend warriers who did or are doing active duty tours in iraq - now to call them up for NO would be burdensome to them and their families and further kill re-ups.

and what of the dollars question?

 

[bluepeter]

Even in discussing an event such as this partisanship rears its head. You Americans really need to find some common ground between the right and the left and stop the hate.

Anyway, leave that shit at the door and discuss Sponge's very valid point. This is a fucking disgrace of an enormous magnitude. A country such as the USA should not be caught with their pants down like this.

 

[75th]

what I stated were facts not heresay. altho you may consider them heresy .

dont know that the number 35% is accurate, but why are they being required to bring in Nat Guard troops from other states (huge numbers, dont remember the exact figures)? and sending in army troops? because the guard is streched from iraq deployment. remeber these are weekend warriers who did or are doing active duty tours in iraq - now to call them up for NO would be burdensome to them and their families and further kill re-ups.

and what of the dollars question?

If you think that what you posted was anything other than heresay then there is no point discussing this further.

The 35% number was from an AP story about 2 hours ago. Mississippi? 10% of their guard. These arent large numbers Mr. Smarty Pants. Also, with any natural disaster of this magnitude, its standard procedure to bring in the guard from other states. They did that after Andrew, and there was no war in Iraq going that people could blame their allergies on.

They are considering sending the actualy Army in there simply because you have numerous gangs creating a dangerous situation. Although the Guard is trained to fight, their experience is mainly dealing with reconstruction efforts.

As for the "dollars question," well again you didnt post any facts whatsoever, so maybe if you started with that then we can get somewhere.

 

[75th]

Even in discussing an event such as this partisanship rears its head. You Americans really need to find some common ground between the right and the left and stop the hate.

Anyway, leave that shit at the door and discuss Sponge's very valid point. This is a fucking disgrace of an enormous magnitude. A country such as the USA should not be caught with their pants down like this.

Dont blame me, he started it.

 

[Mavafanculo]

he started it

did not.

 

[Mavafanculo]

Even in discussing an event such as this partisanship rears its head. You Americans really need to find some common ground between the right and the left and stop the hate.

you're right - but this is what GWB, the healer, has wrought with Rovian style politics for the last 5-6 years. Throw in Limbaugh, Malkin, et al and this is what happens.

First thing out of Michelle Malkins blog-mouth was "where are hollywood and the live-aid people" - hah!

 

[Dial_tone]

if the flood had been in serbia they'd have $3 skillion dollars on the way

 

[75th]

did not.

Yuh huh! Im gonna take all my toys and go home.

 

[jnevin]

if the flood had been in serbia they'd have $3 skillion dollars on the way

Wrong. It would be there already. With half of Hollywood begging the rest of us for money.

 

[75th]

Wrong. It would be there already. With half of Hollywood begging the rest of us for money.

I hate that fucking "One" commercial. This day is stressing me out.

Ill just wait for Mavanlvalvulvco to reply with some nonsense so I can finish ruining him and do some pushups.

 

[Lestat]

humorme: i'm not just trying to bush bash here, im saying he needs to immediate say " these 50,000 troops go here and do this" IMMEDIATELY

They need helocopters, armed security, search and rescue teams, communications experts, etc.

The local infrastructure is WIPED OUT dude... its time for leadership to step the fuck up. This isn't partisian at all, its for the PEOPLE>

 

[75th]

humorme: i'm not just trying to bush bash here, im saying he needs to immediate say " these 50,000 troops go here and do this" IMMEDIATELY

They need helocopters, armed security, search and rescue teams, communications experts, etc.

The local infrastructure is WIPED OUT dude... its time for leadership to step the fuck up. This isn't partisian at all, its for the PEOPLE>

We all agree, but the way our country is set up he doesnt have the power to do that.

 

[jnevin]

The south is going to be a Mad Max movie by Sunday.

 

[Lestat]

Put me in Bush's shoes for 24 hours.

I meet with my military leaders, tell them they need a relief plan in front of me before midnight tonight.

I look at it, approve/change it as needed, and it starts to take place immediately.

Tomorrow mornings news shows thousands of troops in NO helping out, you don't hear about anymore random shootings, only shooting happening is from the US armed forces.

 

[HumorMe]

humorme: i'm not just trying to bush bash here, im saying he needs to immediate say " these 50,000 troops go here and do this" IMMEDIATELY

They need helocopters, armed security, search and rescue teams, communications experts, etc.

The local infrastructure is WIPED OUT dude... its time for leadership to step the fuck up. This isn't partisian at all, its for the PEOPLE>

Lestat, I understand that. We have a system in place that requires officials to ask for help on the federal level. If that was not the case then what would we need local and state governemnts for?

This thing was out of hand long before Katrina ever thought about hitting the gulf coast. Local and state officials are to blame for this mess as it is now. The mayor of NO was more worried about legal implications about ordering a mandatory evacuation than he was about the safety of his citizens.

They are just realizing this thing is bigger than they could have ever imagined and they drug their feet recognizing it.

They have asked him and he is responding like he should. He is sending in troops and helicopters and food and aid, etc. It will be a logistical nightmare to do and it takes time to coordinate all of this.

If the local and state officials had turned it over to the feds on Monday, I think we would have been amazed at the difference but that is not the case.

Bush is being made a whipping post and he is the only one who has responded like he should. Help is on the way I guarantee you that but I think it is a little late. The media is jumping on the bandwagon too and it shouldn't be that way but that is the media for you. Doesn't make sense.

 

[jack sparrow]

Your absolutely right HM.

 

[Lestat]

HumorMe:

I see what you are saying, but ever helicopter at our disposal should be in there right now!!! no more waiting!

 

[HumorMe]

The south is going to be a Mad Max movie by Sunday.

more like Waterworld.

 

[John C Calhoun]

The people who blame bush for this and the gas prices would be defending clinton, gore etc. if the tables were turned. The people defending bush would certainly be blaming clinton, gore, etc. in the same circumstance.

 

[HumorMe]

HumorMe:

I see what you are saying, but ever helicopter at our disposal should be in there right now!!! no more waiting!

Agreed but even that takes time. Can't just hop into them and fly them down there from all over the US now can you?

No. They need to be dismantled to a certain point. Loaded on transports with pilots and flight crews and the necessary support personnel and gear and flown down there and unloaded and, well,...you get my point.

Now if that was done on Saturday before for all personnel to be ready just in case and the reigns turned over to the feds, then we would have all available aircrafts and things already there.

Such is not the case. So much for preparing a master plan for these things when the local and state can't even get it right to start with.

 

[Lestat]

no more excuses, lets just see action.. i understand that it wont get there in an instant, but lets hear about the relief that is coming!

 

[HumorMe]

no more excuses, lets just see action.. i understand that it wont get there in an instant, but lets hear about the relief that is coming!

Do a search on google.....lots to be found there.

 

[Mavafanculo]

As for the "dollars question," well again you didnt post any facts whatsoever, so maybe if you started with that then we can get somewhere

Funding cuts led way to lesser levees

By Andrew Martin and and Andrew Zajac
Washington bureau
Published August 31, 2005, 10:24 PM CDT


WASHINGTON -- Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly cut funding for hurricane preparation and flood control.

The cuts have delayed construction of levees around the city and stymied an ambitious project to improve drainage in New Orleans' neighborhoods.

For instance, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requested $27 million for this fiscal year to pay for hurricane protection projects around Lake Pontchartrain. The Bush administration countered with $3.9 million, and Congress eventually provided $5.7 million, according to figures provided by the office of U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.).

Because of the budget cuts, which were caused in part by the rising costs of the war in Iraq, the corps delayed seven contracts that included enlarging the levees, according to corps documents.

Much of the devastation in New Orleans was caused by breaches in the levees, which sent water from Lake Pontchartrain pouring into the city. Since much of the city is below sea level, the levee walls acted like the walls of a bowl that filled until as much as 80 percent of the city was under water.

Similarly, the Army Corps requested $78 million for this fiscal year for projects that would improve draining and prevent flooding in New Orleans. The Bush administration's budget provided $30 million for the projects, and Congress ultimately approved $36.5 million, according to Landrieu's office.

"I'm not saying it wouldn't still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps' budget.

A corps plan to shore up the levees began in 1965 and was supposed to be finished in 10 years but remains incomplete. "They've never put enough money in to complete it," Parker said. He complained that the corps' budget has been regularly targeted by the White House because public works projects are perceived as pork and aren't considered "sexy."

"Go talk to the people who are suffering in New Orleans," Parker said. "Ask them, `Do they think it's pork?' "

Joseph Suhayda, an emeritus engineering professor at Louisiana State University who has worked for the Army Corps of Engineers, said the corps simply didn't have enough money to build the levees as high as the designs called for.

"The fact that they weren't that high was a result of lack of funding," he said, noting that part of the levee at the 17th Street Canal--where one of the breaches occurred--was 4 feet lower than the rest. "I think they could have significantly reduced the impact if they had those projects funded. If you need to spend $20 million and you spend $4 or $5 million, something's got to give."

Officials for the Army Corps of Engineers declined to comment on the reasons for the budget cutbacks

 

[spongebob]

Even in discussing an event such as this partisanship rears its head. You Americans really need to find some common ground between the right and the left and stop the hate.

Anyway, leave that shit at the door and discuss Sponge's very valid point. This is a fucking disgrace of an enormous magnitude. A country such as the USA should not be caught with their pants down like this.

yea watching this on tv it is unbelievable.

all im saying is bush was on tv 2 days ago saying we are going to do everything we can but i see a slow response imo, thats all. im sure more is going on behind the scenes. but when i still see people trapped on roofs or overpasses i have to wonder. and all im asking is for some air drops of food just like they did for the sunami victims. just start dropping supplies in bags.

 

[75th]

Funding cuts led way to lesser levees

By Andrew Martin and and Andrew Zajac
Washington bureau
Published August 31, 2005, 10:24 PM CDT


WASHINGTON -- Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly cut funding for hurricane preparation and flood control.

The cuts have delayed construction of levees around the city and stymied an ambitious project to improve drainage in New Orleans' neighborhoods.

For instance, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requested $27 million for this fiscal year to pay for hurricane protection projects around Lake Pontchartrain. The Bush administration countered with $3.9 million, and Congress eventually provided $5.7 million, according to figures provided by the office of U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.).

Because of the budget cuts, which were caused in part by the rising costs of the war in Iraq, the corps delayed seven contracts that included enlarging the levees, according to corps documents.

Much of the devastation in New Orleans was caused by breaches in the levees, which sent water from Lake Pontchartrain pouring into the city. Since much of the city is below sea level, the levee walls acted like the walls of a bowl that filled until as much as 80 percent of the city was under water.

Similarly, the Army Corps requested $78 million for this fiscal year for projects that would improve draining and prevent flooding in New Orleans. The Bush administration's budget provided $30 million for the projects, and Congress ultimately approved $36.5 million, according to Landrieu's office.

"I'm not saying it wouldn't still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps' budget.

A corps plan to shore up the levees began in 1965 and was supposed to be finished in 10 years but remains incomplete. "They've never put enough money in to complete it," Parker said. He complained that the corps' budget has been regularly targeted by the White House because public works projects are perceived as pork and aren't considered "sexy."

"Go talk to the people who are suffering in New Orleans," Parker said. "Ask them, `Do they think it's pork?' "

Joseph Suhayda, an emeritus engineering professor at Louisiana State University who has worked for the Army Corps of Engineers, said the corps simply didn't have enough money to build the levees as high as the designs called for.

"The fact that they weren't that high was a result of lack of funding," he said, noting that part of the levee at the 17th Street Canal--where one of the breaches occurred--was 4 feet lower than the rest. "I think they could have significantly reduced the impact if they had those projects funded. If you need to spend $20 million and you spend $4 or $5 million, something's got to give."

Officials for the Army Corps of Engineers declined to comment on the reasons for the budget cutbacks

You can roll your eyes all you want, but up until now you didnt post anything concrete.

In the end, you have the dollars and I have the number of troops. We both win.

 

[spongebob]

humorme: i'm not just trying to bush bash here, im saying he needs to immediate say " these 50,000 troops go here and do this" IMMEDIATELY

They need helocopters, armed security, search and rescue teams, communications experts, etc.

The local infrastructure is WIPED OUT dude... its time for leadership to step the fuck up. This isn't partisian at all, its for the PEOPLE>

thats all im saying to, step up with everything we have.

 

[HumorMe]

Funding cuts led way to lesser levees

By Andrew Martin and and Andrew Zajac
Washington bureau
Published August 31, 2005, 10:24 PM CDT


WASHINGTON -- Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly cut funding for hurricane preparation and flood control.

The cuts have delayed construction of levees around the city and stymied an ambitious project to improve drainage in New Orleans' neighborhoods.

For instance, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requested $27 million for this fiscal year to pay for hurricane protection projects around Lake Pontchartrain. The Bush administration countered with $3.9 million, and Congress eventually provided $5.7 million, according to figures provided by the office of U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.).

Because of the budget cuts, which were caused in part by the rising costs of the war in Iraq, the corps delayed seven contracts that included enlarging the levees, according to corps documents.

Much of the devastation in New Orleans was caused by breaches in the levees, which sent water from Lake Pontchartrain pouring into the city. Since much of the city is below sea level, the levee walls acted like the walls of a bowl that filled until as much as 80 percent of the city was under water.

Similarly, the Army Corps requested $78 million for this fiscal year for projects that would improve draining and prevent flooding in New Orleans. The Bush administration's budget provided $30 million for the projects, and Congress ultimately approved $36.5 million, according to Landrieu's office.

"I'm not saying it wouldn't still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps' budget.

A corps plan to shore up the levees began in 1965 and was supposed to be finished in 10 years but remains incomplete. "They've never put enough money in to complete it," Parker said. He complained that the corps' budget has been regularly targeted by the White House because public works projects are perceived as pork and aren't considered "sexy."

"Go talk to the people who are suffering in New Orleans," Parker said. "Ask them, `Do they think it's pork?' "

Joseph Suhayda, an emeritus engineering professor at Louisiana State University who has worked for the Army Corps of Engineers, said the corps simply didn't have enough money to build the levees as high as the designs called for.

"The fact that they weren't that high was a result of lack of funding," he said, noting that part of the levee at the 17th Street Canal--where one of the breaches occurred--was 4 feet lower than the rest. "I think they could have significantly reduced the impact if they had those projects funded. If you need to spend $20 million and you spend $4 or $5 million, something's got to give."

Officials for the Army Corps of Engineers declined to comment on the reasons for the budget cutbacks

The levees were built to withstand a category 3 hurricane. Whose idea was that? Katrina was supposedly weakening to a Category 3 when she came ashore and didn't even directly hit NO.

Not downplaying the cuts but it does say it all started in 1965. Can't shove the whole blame onto Bush for that.

 

[HumorMe]

thats all im saying to, step up with everything we have.

It is happening as we sit here and discuss it. Too little too late I'm afraid though.

 

[spongebob]

We all agree, but the way our country is set up he doesnt have the power to do that.

i guess i am a person of action when it comes to this stuff as president i dont give a damn how the country is set up. im making the rules no matter what the consequences are. and he shouldnt have got on tv then and said the govt is going to do everything they possibly can.

 

[HumorMe]

i guess i am a person of action when it comes to this stuff as president i dont give a damn how the country is set up. im making the rules no matter what the consequences are.

go get em tiger....lol

 

[spongebob]

HumorMe:

I see what you are saying, but ever helicopter at our disposal should be in there right now!!! no more waiting!

thats right air dropping supplies down every day. i mean we are all seeing the same things on tv, people living on rooftops and overpasses for days.

shit it dont even look like they air dropped anything to the people at the superdome. what is so hard about that. that should have been on the very first day. how do you not know that that situation was a recipe for disaster.

 

[spongebob]

The people who blame bush for this and the gas prices would be defending clinton, gore etc. if the tables were turned. The people defending bush would certainly be blaming clinton, gore, etc. in the same circumstance.

would you right wingers and liberals stay off this fucking thread. no particular offense to you but this is not about that. this goddamn country is heading for disaster economically because of this storm and rising gas prices, if there is even going to be gas to sell.

now we need great leadership right now and idont give a crap what it takes to bail it out. just start mandating shit if thats what it takes.

 

[75th]

thats right air dropping supplies down every day. i mean we are all seeing the same things on tv, people living on rooftops and overpasses for days.

shit it dont even look like they air dropped anything to the people at the superdome. what is so hard about that. that should have been on the very first day. how do you not know that that situation was a recipe for disaster.

In a situation like this, however, that would lead to hording. People would begin fighting over the food drops, and unless we have some massive forces on the ground, it wouldnt be distributed properly.

 

[HumorMe]

thats right air dropping supplies down every day. i mean we are all seeing the same things on tv, people living on rooftops and overpasses for days.

shit it dont even look like they air dropped anything to the people at the superdome. what is so hard about that. that should have been on the very first day. how do you not know that that situation was a recipe for disaster.

Goes back to the local and state levels. That is where the breakdown occurred.

They thought they could handle it and they misjudged it.

We sure haven't heard from the mayor recently have we.

The givernor has taken control of the situation but the military is telling her what to do right now. She can fake a rosy picture but we all know that is not the case.

 

[Cutiebaby]

yes sponge i agree with you they simply arent doing enough...1st those damn levees should have been stronger and newer and also their pumps should have been newer,stronger,and have a generator attached so that this would have been less damaging than it is......now 2nd this country is too damn busy playing protector and hero for other countries yet we have people dying and stuff....so the people in NO are shooting at helicopters big f'n deal....what about troops? send them in they can get shot at in foreign countries to save those people but cannot here in the u.s??? I think that we should air drop in there and save who we can save and those who remain violent and estranged leave there.....sounds like a plan!

 

[spongebob]

go get em tiger....lol

sponge in 08'

 

[spongebob]

In a situation like this, however, that would lead to hording. People would begin fighting over the food drops, and unless we have some massive forces on the ground, it wouldnt be distributed properly.

bullshit, excuses dude. and really whats it matter if there is hording at least people are getting supplies. hell drop enough.

 

[75th]

bullshit, excuses dude. and really whats it matter if there is hording at least people are getting supplies. hell drop enough.

Whos making excuses? I agree with you that we should unleash what we got. But that doesnt change the fact that when people feel desperate they wont give a fuck about anybody else.

 

[Sweet_Bitch]

Should have, could have, would have. We'll hear alot of that in the months and maybe years to come. Just like with any other disaster type situation that's occured in the past. You can't blame one person or one group for what has/has not happened. Hindsight is 20/20, that's never been more true then with this particular situation. Perhaps rather then looking for someone to blame or turn into a "whipping post" the country should focus on getting relief efforts together-organizing food/clothing drives, finding housing/shelter for those who are homeless, setting up morgues, and search/rescue teams. We'll have years to find someone to blame, it doesn't help anyone now. Just my opinion...

 

[Mavafanculo]

In the end, you have the dollars and I have the number of troops. We both win.

one down and one to go.

I think you may have "misread" your 35% Guard number. jeez we need hard cites from you from now on.

sorry sponge - last one. but it also goes to the point of your thread.

Iraq mess adds to the problem
The battlefields of Iraq seem far removed from the awesome devastation and near-biblical floods unleashed on New Orleans and the rest of the Mississippi Delta by Hurricane Katrina.
But these two tragedies are more closely connected than most of us realize.

Some 7,000 soldiers from the Louisiana and Mississippi National Guard are stationed in Iraq. They include more than 3,000 members of the 256th Brigade Combat Team, a unit based in and around New Orleans.

Those soldiers, who represent 40% of Mississippi's and 35% ofLouisiana's regular Guard strength, were forced to watch helplessly from their barracks in Iraq the past few days as the hurricane swept through their neighborhoods and threatened their families.

Quite simply, the two states hardest hit by this storm were handicapped from the start by not having enough Guard units and military equipment like trucks, Humvees and helicopters on the ground to handle the crisis.

"As much as we need them in Iraq, we also need them at home," Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.) warned on CNN just before the hurricane hit Monday.

Yet not until yesterday did President Bush finally take decisive action to provide military reinforcements from other parts of the country or even from regular Army bases in those states.

By then, one of our greatest cities was under water and being evacuated; tens of thousands of its poorest residents were stranded and facing catastrophe; millions were without power, and looters had already waded off with all that could be taken.

"People are hurting and people are being vandalized," said an editorial plea posted yesterday on the Web site of The Sun Herald of Biloxi, Miss. "Yet where is the National Guard, why hasn't every able-bodied member of the armed forces in south Mississippi been pressed into service?"

Except for the floods, the posthurricane destruction and near-anarchy in New Orleans resembled those heartbreaking scenes of the chaos in Baghdad after "liberation."

Those floods are yet another tragedy that the Bush administration will have to explain. They are in no small way connected to the curse that Iraq has become for our nation.

Sure, no one could have prevented a powerful hurricane from hitting the Mississippi Delta. But federal and local government leaders all knew that a direct hit on New Orleans from such a storm could mean catastrophe.

The Times-Picayune of New Orleans published numerous articles during the past two years warning that the city and federal officials weren't prepared.

The newspaper's articles also revealed that Bush was making huge cuts to an Army Corps of Engineers project meant to shore up the levees and pumping stations that protect Delta residents from the waters of Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi.

That project, known as the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, has been in effect since 1995. But spending on it has been reduced substantially since 2000.

"It appears the money has been moved into the President's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price that we pay," the emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, La., told The Times-Picayune in June 2004. "Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished."

Earlier this year, Bush, this President who is spending more than $1 billion a week on this mess in Iraq, proposed less than $11 million in new funding for Louisiana's flood control project. The Army Corps of Engineers wanted at least $62 million.

Among the items the White House cut from that flood control budget was money to study how New Orleans could cope with a Category 5 hurricane.

Well, the entire country learned how this week. We'll all be paying for that terrible lesson for decades to come.

Originally published on September 1, 2005

 

[spongebob]

Should have, could have, would have. We'll hear alot of that in the months and maybe years to come. Just like with any other disaster type situation that's occured in the past. You can't blame one person or one group for what has/has not happened. Hindsight is 20/20, that's never been more true then with this particular situation. Perhaps rather then looking for someone to blame or turn into a "whipping post" the country should focus on getting relief efforts together-organizing food/clothing drives, finding housing/shelter for those who are homeless, setting up morgues, and search/rescue teams. We'll have years to find someone to blame, it doesn't help anyone now. Just my opinion...

hindsight 20/20? what?

were not talking about predicting the damage and having emergency relief standing by. we know that was mishandled.

havnt you been watching tv? the destruction is there for everyone to see. the persident has been on tv for what, three days talking. and the response HAS BEEN SLOW. that has nothing to do with hindsight. he flew over the area, he saw it from the air. after that response has been slow. that was two days ago.

 

[Sweet_Bitch]

hindsight 20/20? what?

were not talking about predicting the damage and having emergency relief standing by. we know that was mishandled.

havnt you been watching tv? the destruction is there for everyone to see. the persident has been on tv for what, three days talking. and the response HAS BEEN SLOW. that has nothing to do with hindsight. he flew over the area, he saw it from the air. after that response has been slow. that was two days ago.

I fully agree that the response has been slow, I've said that several times. All I'm saying is that there were many things that were mishandled, from the choice to build a city there (LOL), to the construction of the levees, to the handling of the relief effort. Pointing fingers does no one any good, that's all I'm saying. Not attacking, just observing

 

[starfish]

I fully agree that the response has been slow, I've said that several times. All I'm saying is that there were many things that were mishandled, from the choice to build a city there (LOL), to the construction of the levees, to the handling of the relief effort. Pointing fingers does no one any good, that's all I'm saying. Not attacking, just observing

There is positively ZERO excuse for what is happenning to those people in NO right now considering the country we live in and the resources we have...ZERO. State...Federal...Bush...ZERO EXCUSE.

and for all the little freaks who are going to come along after this post and call me a liberal whatever for saying it...Save it.

 

[Sweet_Bitch]

There is positively ZERO excuse for what is happenning to those people in NO right now considering the country we live in and the resources we have...ZERO. State...Federal...Bush...ZERO EXCUSE.

and for all the little freaks who are going to come along after this post and call me a liberal whatever for saying it...Save it.

Could there ever be a "good" enough excuse to justify what's going on? Nope. I gues that's what I'm saying-doesn't matter who you care to blame or what excuse you come up with, it's not helping anyone right now and it will never make any of the victims feel better.

 

[Spartacus]

I agree. Bush should have the army in there to clean up the riots and looting and be sending MASSIVE aide to save the stranded people who are slowly dying and pump that water out and restore power!!!

yeah those stranded haven't had the same opportunity to loot
imagine the dismay to be stranded hungry and thirsty while witnessing your bretheren making off with a case of milky ways, mountian dew and a magnavox

 

[HumorMe]

my my my.

I wish people would read the entire thread before responding.

 

[75th]

my my my.

I wish people would read the entire thread before responding.

No shit.

 

[starfish]

If that was to me...I stopped reading this thread at the cheap shot liberals getting home comment...

Sorry, some of us dont spend 24 hours online keeping up with eveything.

 

[helloboy]

how fast do u want them to work damn

 

[Mavafanculo]

bump to humiliate 75th

one down and one to go.

I think you may have "misread" your 35% Guard number. jeez we need hard cites from you fro now on.

sorry sponge - last one. but it also goes to the point of your thread.

Iraq mess adds to the problem
The battlefields of Iraq seem far removed from the awesome devastation and near-biblical floods unleashed on New Orleans and the rest of the Mississippi Delta by Hurricane Katrina.
But these two tragedies are more closely connected than most of us realize.

Some 7,000 soldiers from the Louisiana and Mississippi National Guard are stationed in Iraq. They include more than 3,000 members of the 256th Brigade Combat Team, a unit based in and around New Orleans.

Those soldiers, who represent 40% of Mississippi's and 35% ofLouisiana's regular Guard strength, were forced to watch helplessly from their barracks in Iraq the past few days as the hurricane swept through their neighborhoods and threatened their families.

Quite simply, the two states hardest hit by this storm were handicapped from the start by not having enough Guard units and military equipment like trucks, Humvees and helicopters on the ground to handle the crisis.

"As much as we need them in Iraq, we also need them at home," Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.) warned on CNN just before the hurricane hit Monday.

Yet not until yesterday did President Bush finally take decisive action to provide military reinforcements from other parts of the country or even from regular Army bases in those states.

By then, one of our greatest cities was under water and being evacuated; tens of thousands of its poorest residents were stranded and facing catastrophe; millions were without power, and looters had already waded off with all that could be taken.

"People are hurting and people are being vandalized," said an editorial plea posted yesterday on the Web site of The Sun Herald of Biloxi, Miss. "Yet where is the National Guard, why hasn't every able-bodied member of the armed forces in south Mississippi been pressed into service?"

Except for the floods, the posthurricane destruction and near-anarchy in New Orleans resembled those heartbreaking scenes of the chaos in Baghdad after "liberation."

Those floods are yet another tragedy that the Bush administration will have to explain. They are in no small way connected to the curse that Iraq has become for our nation.

Sure, no one could have prevented a powerful hurricane from hitting the Mississippi Delta. But federal and local government leaders all knew that a direct hit on New Orleans from such a storm could mean catastrophe.

The Times-Picayune of New Orleans published numerous articles during the past two years warning that the city and federal officials weren't prepared.

The newspaper's articles also revealed that Bush was making huge cuts to an Army Corps of Engineers project meant to shore up the levees and pumping stations that protect Delta residents from the waters of Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi.

That project, known as the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, has been in effect since 1995. But spending on it has been reduced substantially since 2000.

"It appears the money has been moved into the President's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price that we pay," the emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, La., told The Times-Picayune in June 2004. "Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished."

Earlier this year, Bush, this President who is spending more than $1 billion a week on this mess in Iraq, proposed less than $11 million in new funding for Louisiana's flood control project. The Army Corps of Engineers wanted at least $62 million.

Among the items the White House cut from that flood control budget was money to study how New Orleans could cope with a Category 5 hurricane.

Well, the entire country learned how this week. We'll all be paying for that terrible lesson for decades to come.

Originally published on September 1, 2005

 

[75th]

bump to humiliate 75th

LOL nice way to humiliate yourself by posting an opinion piece.

 

[Mavafanculo]

LOL nice way to humiliate yourself by posting an opinion piece.

read the facts contained broly - I'm gonna have you voting Democrat by 2008.

 

[75th]

read the facts contained broly - I'm gonna have you voting Democrat by 2008.

I dont even vote republican.

And an opinion piece is an opinion piece.

 

[pintoca]

I don't want to stir shit up her, but one can't help but wonder if the situation would be the same if NO was predominantly a white-people city...

 

[jerkbox]

I wonder how much aid Sri Lanka and Indonesia are going to send to the victims of Katrina...

i've been wondering the same thing lately.....

 

[bb079]

40,000 troops have been requested by gov. blanco, and the us gov has agreed to send them. although it should have been done days ago. you cant point fingers at one person.

 

[HumorMe]

40,000 troops have been requested by gov. blanco, and the us gov has agreed to send them. although it should have been done days ago. you cant point fingers at one person.

You say you can't blame one person but this is a post I got off of a weather discussion forum. This guy is an Air Force Meteorologist and so many posts have been made blaming Bush for all of this (Not saying you are blaming Bush or anyone else) but I find his post as hitting the perverbial nail on the head.

Exactly. And frankly (flame me if you will)...but I am getting SICK and tired of listening to all you arm chair qb's he really have NO CLUE what you are talking about. Sorry to rant here...and I know those of you who know me (and not the large amount of new posters who have joined over the last week or so) know I don't do this...but frankly...I am getting very tired of this....because all of you QB's want the president to do this...he hasn't done that need to close your mouths because you have NO CLUE what you are talking about.

For those who know me...you know I know what I am talking about. For those who don't...here is WHY I know what I am talking about. I am not just an Air Force Met. I am the Chief of Weather Ops for the 5th US Army...and have been working scenarios for 5th Amry since 1988. We had an exercise last year on this...a cat 5 hitting NOLA. The Federal Gov't knows what to do...HOWEVER...and here is what you are-chair/Monday morning QB's need to understand...get it through your thick heads....

In order for flows of supplies to work...and be pre-staged...the GOVERNOR and the MAYOR MUST be actively invovled and use the correct language...according to that states constitution...that ALLOW the federal Gov't and other state's guard units to get involved. Why? There is a little thing called the constitution and the 10th Ammendment...and there is also Posse Comitatus. Can that be understood by some of you?

In order to get around Posse Comitatus and the constitution, the governor of LA MUST invite and delegate. It is what she needed to do and she did not. The MAYOR...God bless his pee picking heart...failed the city by not getting the people out. Period. Now he's mad? He needs to point fingers at himself and his "team" of emergeny management officials. The NOLA police dept is in chaos and that is the Fed. gov't's fault?

So...I am sorry to rant...and if you flame...I could care less because I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT...I work the spin up to these disasters...the exercises for these disasters (and WMD attacks) and I know the AMOUNT of logistics it takes. We are talking about a disaster of epic proportions here...and there is NO PLAN for that...none. We have exercises for this stuff every year. The action MUST BE INITIATED at the state level. A 3 star general...or even the president...cannot legally just step in and take charge. It is against the law...a law that the president...the general...and myself swore an OATH to defend. The governor of the state of LA is to blame for her lack of a spine and her leadership...which has been NONE. She is irrelevant. In ALL our exercises and plans (weather for MSCA [Military Support for Civilian Authorities] or WMD) the governor is the intial call maker. She or He must make the initial call...according to the laws of the state...and turn it over to the Feds...according to all the laws. BY all accounts...that came 48 hours too late.

The mayor and the OEM folks are to blame for not getting the folks out in the first place and delaying evacuations. And finally...want to blame someone? Blame the people who stayed willingly. If they had left as they were told (you could walk out in the two days prior to Katrina if you had no ride...which the City should have coordinated a LOT better)...then this crisis would NOT be happening. Right? If the people had been evacuated by the state and local government...and in many cases had not REFUSED evacuation...this would not be happening...and that is a FACT.

Sorry to rant...but this is my job...and many of you do not have any clue what you are talking about...just what you think should happen...and that...unfortunately...is an opinion based on ignorance of how all this really wroks.

 

[HumorMe]

And this is a photo of the Mayor's ineptness for not noticing the tools to get these people out of New Orleans. They look pretty much useless at this point...