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Think DNP is totally safe? Think again.
- Thread starter Andy13
- Start date
WHAT? Did you think I was fonz there for a second?
J/k... Here's why..
By now, every one knows that DNP acts at the powerhouse of the cell, the mitochondria. DNP causes the disipation of the proton motive force which makes ATP synthesis by oxidative phosphorilation less efficient. That means that your electron transport system of generating the proton gradient that drives the synthesis of ATP has to work a whole lot harder to make the same amount of ATP.. That's exactly why your metabolism gets boosted!
The problem here is that all the DNA in the cell is not entirely in the nucleus. Mitochondria have their own DNA as well. And mitochondrial DNP codes for some of the mitochondrial proteins that aid in metabolism and a whole host of other things.
What happens during oxidative phosphorilation (making ATP from the proton gradient) is that, in the end, molecular oxygen gets reduced to water. Sometimes, this doesn't go so well and peroxides instead of water form in the mitochondria. These are harmful free radicals that cause mutations in mitochondrial DNA. So, you say, "no problem, I'll just load up on my alpha lipoic acid and it's all good, right?'' Unfortunetly, WRONG. NO antioxidant can enter the mitochondria inner membrane. It's impermeable to everything but O2 water and CO2. And free radical formed inside the mitochondria runs wild inside changing everything from the membrane to the mitochondrial DNA.
While cancer is associated with NUCLEAR DNA mutations, parkinson's disease, general aging, alsheimer's and the things about old people that make them OLD (like reduced motor skills, hearing loss) is caused by mutations in mitochondrial DNA.
People who have a genetic predisposition to diseases like parkinson's, alzheimer's and huntington's disease tend to fuck up that reduction of molecular oxygen to water a bit more often that others. These people should re-think DNP use.
Andy
J/k... Here's why..
By now, every one knows that DNP acts at the powerhouse of the cell, the mitochondria. DNP causes the disipation of the proton motive force which makes ATP synthesis by oxidative phosphorilation less efficient. That means that your electron transport system of generating the proton gradient that drives the synthesis of ATP has to work a whole lot harder to make the same amount of ATP.. That's exactly why your metabolism gets boosted!
The problem here is that all the DNA in the cell is not entirely in the nucleus. Mitochondria have their own DNA as well. And mitochondrial DNP codes for some of the mitochondrial proteins that aid in metabolism and a whole host of other things.
What happens during oxidative phosphorilation (making ATP from the proton gradient) is that, in the end, molecular oxygen gets reduced to water. Sometimes, this doesn't go so well and peroxides instead of water form in the mitochondria. These are harmful free radicals that cause mutations in mitochondrial DNA. So, you say, "no problem, I'll just load up on my alpha lipoic acid and it's all good, right?'' Unfortunetly, WRONG. NO antioxidant can enter the mitochondria inner membrane. It's impermeable to everything but O2 water and CO2. And free radical formed inside the mitochondria runs wild inside changing everything from the membrane to the mitochondrial DNA.
While cancer is associated with NUCLEAR DNA mutations, parkinson's disease, general aging, alsheimer's and the things about old people that make them OLD (like reduced motor skills, hearing loss) is caused by mutations in mitochondrial DNA.
People who have a genetic predisposition to diseases like parkinson's, alzheimer's and huntington's disease tend to fuck up that reduction of molecular oxygen to water a bit more often that others. These people should re-think DNP use.
Andy
Excellent post. But of course anyone with even some common sence will know to stay away from a poison like that. I really can't understand what makes people take such extreme measures and not think of future consequences. Just plain stupidity. Especially when there are other ways to get shredded that are very effective, like actually paying attention to you DIET. No well forget that last one, too difficult, just take a pill and you're going to be fine. I mean who the hell actually wants to weigh their food, manipulate calories plan for cardio, proper t3 usage with light cardio and etc.
This looking for a easy way to get your dream body will have dire consequences as we get older. But then again as some have said "it's better to die BIG and young then Old and weak"
So enjoy your DNP.
This looking for a easy way to get your dream body will have dire consequences as we get older. But then again as some have said "it's better to die BIG and young then Old and weak"
So enjoy your DNP.
Lift or Die
New member
Very good post Andy. I was never interested in using DNP. After reading your post I'm even less interested in using it.
You would be amazed at what a clean diet and plenty of cardio can do for fat loss.
You would be amazed at what a clean diet and plenty of cardio can do for fat loss.
serge
New member
BTW, i tried your DNP front loading this weekend, did 1000mg on fri, 700mg of sat, 700mg on sun. kicked in much sooner this time, by fri night was running out of breath. also on the last cycle i ate anything i wanted in large quantities, ran the cycle for 4 days and lost about 4lb of fat. DID NOT DIET AT ALL.
macrophage69alpha
New member
Andy13 said:
while ALA is not present within the mitochondria- glutathione, which is "restored" by ALA, is..
peace
Scatback55
New member
Sure DNP doesn't cause cancer it just cooks you from the inside out. Anyone get the latest Mag of MD (muscular Development). The have a nice article on this posion. Also mentioning that a college kid died from using it after it cooked his internal organs.
macrophage69alpha said:
ALA raises glutathione levels by 50-70%
And [email protected] your first post. V.funny...LOL
Even though I think Andy is being a bit extreme in his
evaluation of mitochondrial damage, I do believe
his post has some implications for people
with some cellular/genetic disorders.
ALA should take care of the problem for all other users.
Fonz
Scatback55 said:
I read the articles and was quite annoyed at them.....I was really suprised at the negative and the lack of research put into the article......I figured a mag like MD would at least address both the negative and positive aspects of DNP, and not just bash it.
Whoever is using DNP or plans on using it, please contact me. We wont be able to use you as an organ donor, but we would like to use your body for the first year medical student anatomy labs.
Andy, you can also add mitochondrial myopathies to your list.
Thanks
T
Andy, you can also add mitochondrial myopathies to your list.
Thanks
T
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kind of off the subject but the guy i used to get dnp off of is in the slammer for supplying some kid that took too much and killed himself.It just shows that certain precautions have to be followed with any drug especially dnp.It sucks for the both of them.Alot of people will smoke or drink knowing how bad it is for you so I don't condone anybody for trying it,just the people that don't take the right precautions,as I would if somebody were to drink too much and drive or whatever.
I hope you are not Seriously useing a muscle mag as a source of factual information- Superfrk
Also the reson dnp is used as an insecticide is not because it is posionous, It is because insects have a hard shell and can not regulate their temps the way people do, So yes it cooks them, DNP is actualy just as safe as some of the prsciption drugs that doctors prescribe every day, Its all how it is used and in what amounts.
Also the reson dnp is used as an insecticide is not because it is posionous, It is because insects have a hard shell and can not regulate their temps the way people do, So yes it cooks them, DNP is actualy just as safe as some of the prsciption drugs that doctors prescribe every day, Its all how it is used and in what amounts.
Scatback55 said:
Lao Tzu
New member
is this a correct layman's description of what you described?
there are at least 2 places where DNA strands can be found in a cell. the nucleus & the mitochondria.
DNP works by fucking with the mitochondria's ability to make ATP, as a result metabolism increases at ATP production increases to compensate for the production inefficienty that DNP creates. but in the process of ATP production, H2O2 (a molecule with 2 oxygen atoms instead of one oxygen atom, which H2O, aka water has) is released that may end up warping your mitochondria's DNA, making you more prone to diseases associated with old age, ie parkinson's, alzheimer's and huntington's disease.
alpha lipoc acid (aka ALA, aka an antioxidant) wont help as it can't penetrate the cell membrane (ie wall surrounding the cell) to destroy the H202.
however, i just came across this.
http://www.letsliveonline.com/articlesTemp.asp?dept=51&articleID=1733
ALA has excellent bioavailability, acting within and outside the
cell.
and this
http://tsangenterprise.com/news36.htm
1. ALA is the only antioxidant which is both fat and water-soluble. This means that ALA is easily absorbed and transported across cell membranes, offering us protection against free radical damage both inside and outside the cell. This is unlike many other antioxidant which provides extracellular protection only.
2. The structure of ALA is very small which allows it to easily slip through cell membranes. Many other antioxidants are too large to pass through the cell membrane.
is this why when dnp came out we were supposed to OD on antioxidants? in my first cycle i remember taking 1200 IU of vitamin E a day, i think i took vitamin A and about 3 grams of vitamin C. did the people know that this was a consequence, but put the A, C & E megadoses in under the illusion of 'preventing cataracts' or was the fact that megadoses of antioxidants (even though i guess they won't work) actually based on cataract prevention?
there are at least 2 places where DNA strands can be found in a cell. the nucleus & the mitochondria.
DNP works by fucking with the mitochondria's ability to make ATP, as a result metabolism increases at ATP production increases to compensate for the production inefficienty that DNP creates. but in the process of ATP production, H2O2 (a molecule with 2 oxygen atoms instead of one oxygen atom, which H2O, aka water has) is released that may end up warping your mitochondria's DNA, making you more prone to diseases associated with old age, ie parkinson's, alzheimer's and huntington's disease.
alpha lipoc acid (aka ALA, aka an antioxidant) wont help as it can't penetrate the cell membrane (ie wall surrounding the cell) to destroy the H202.
however, i just came across this.
http://www.letsliveonline.com/articlesTemp.asp?dept=51&articleID=1733
ALA has excellent bioavailability, acting within and outside the
cell.
and this
http://tsangenterprise.com/news36.htm
1. ALA is the only antioxidant which is both fat and water-soluble. This means that ALA is easily absorbed and transported across cell membranes, offering us protection against free radical damage both inside and outside the cell. This is unlike many other antioxidant which provides extracellular protection only.
2. The structure of ALA is very small which allows it to easily slip through cell membranes. Many other antioxidants are too large to pass through the cell membrane.
is this why when dnp came out we were supposed to OD on antioxidants? in my first cycle i remember taking 1200 IU of vitamin E a day, i think i took vitamin A and about 3 grams of vitamin C. did the people know that this was a consequence, but put the A, C & E megadoses in under the illusion of 'preventing cataracts' or was the fact that megadoses of antioxidants (even though i guess they won't work) actually based on cataract prevention?
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blaster220
New member
bump for nordstrom...
Maybe im not up to the times on DNP. But i would like some questions answered about it:
1. Who makes it? Is there any quality control when making it to ensure its purity?
2. Are there any studies about it? Im not talking about some guy who studied it in his backyard or took it himself and said he felt good/bad the day after. Im talking about reproducible studies in a lab.
As for believing a muscle mag, id rather believe that before i believe some guy here who posts that it worked great for him and everyone should try it too(i wont believe either though). It seems like if some guy here posts good things about a med or supplement, then everybody here takes it as gospel or biblical truth.
T
1. Who makes it? Is there any quality control when making it to ensure its purity?
2. Are there any studies about it? Im not talking about some guy who studied it in his backyard or took it himself and said he felt good/bad the day after. Im talking about reproducible studies in a lab.
As for believing a muscle mag, id rather believe that before i believe some guy here who posts that it worked great for him and everyone should try it too(i wont believe either though). It seems like if some guy here posts good things about a med or supplement, then everybody here takes it as gospel or biblical truth.
T
Andy, you are too fucking smart brother, do you have a degree in microbiology or something. YOU KNOW YOUR SHIT ABOUT DNP, AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES CAN JUST BACK THE FUCK OFF. Keep up the good posts brother, they are sometimes a little hard to understand, but they are very informative. Oh, and if you have some spare time on your hands, figure out what the cure for cancer is, that would be great.
METHYL MIKE
New member
ulter said:
LOL!!! Yeah, me mum told me i was gonna get alhzheimers for sure when i was a wee lad, so i guess ill have to stay away from naughty dnp. LOL!!!
DNP is readily accessible to anybody. Just find a chem company that makes it. Get it in powder form and weight it. There is no reason a source would fuck with it considering its cheap and easily atainable. Also it does not need to be as sterile as an injectible, stomach acids will take care of that, you have no defense when something is injected, easy infection.
Andy, how is the Mictochondria DNA mutated? Missense, nonsense, frameshift? And how is a mutation there linked to those dissorders? Nuclear DNA mutations cause changes in codon sequence and cell lines, how does a mutation in mictochondria play a role in future cell problems?
bigrand said:
Check this link for all your mutation and general mitochondria questions. Note that most of the mitochondrial myopathies are genetic, but some are sporadic......all are caused by mitochondrial DNA mutation. The info in this link is easy to read and understand. The symptoms of mitochondrial myopathies are weakness and fatigue.
T
http://www.mitoresearch.org/Quest_6_4.htm
Spent, you havent been looking for DNP i guess. ANy one on this board can find it from a chem company, not all carry it, but you can find one. My point was to illustrate the fact that its a non controlled substance (unlike AAS) and people wont ask questions if you order some. If you look long enough (like sourcs do) you will find a company that will sell it to you. Ive found like 5.
I know sources sell it, i got mine from a source, probly the one you are talking about! I meant that a source wont jip you on what your getting, there is no reason. The DocTodd asked of we were sure what we were getting was DNP. Why not? Why would a source fuck with it? Counterfit DNP, probly not.
Those were my points.
I know sources sell it, i got mine from a source, probly the one you are talking about! I meant that a source wont jip you on what your getting, there is no reason. The DocTodd asked of we were sure what we were getting was DNP. Why not? Why would a source fuck with it? Counterfit DNP, probly not.
Those were my points.
bigrand said:
You took micro, right? Did they tell you that evolutionary biologists believe that mitochondria were "captured" bacterial cells? It's totally easy to believe this could happen over time. Bactera divide MUCH faster than human cells do, but once captured in a eukaryotic cell, I imagine that, over time, the division of the mito would ultimately be controlled by the nucleus. Either way, there are about 2k mito per cell.
Since mito have their own DNA, they code for SOME of their own proteins, others are synthesized in the cytsol and imported inside the mito. (Aside, I think this evolution stuff is really cool... Mitochondria, once bacterial cells, then captured by eukaryotic cells and now both the mito, and the eukaryotic cell are stronger than either by itself and both depend on each other).
I have no clue WHAT kind of DNA mutation goes on inside the mito but it ultimately affects energy poduction and cellular respiration, even division.
The big question that I'm about to go look up is whether or not mitochondrial glutathione is synthesized inside the mito or if it is imported inside from the cytosol. If infact it is synthesized in the mito, I'm not so sure ALA is effective then.. The inner mitochondrial membrane is the preacher's daughter of membranes and penetration is 1000x more descriminatory than the cytosolic membrane.. I mean, not even protons can enter freely. The only things that can are CO2 and O2-- everything else has to be imported by some mechanism.
Andy
Nothing was said about "captured bacteria" but the point was made concerning the similarities between metabolisms of prok and euk cells. Sounds like thats what you are talkin about.
Free radicals are taken care of anyway by superoxide dissmutase, peroxidase, ext......so why do you think that any damage is mutagenic in nature and that the mutation is transcribed to the next generation.
Im in micro now
, so this is some tight shit!
Free radicals are taken care of anyway by superoxide dissmutase, peroxidase, ext......so why do you think that any damage is mutagenic in nature and that the mutation is transcribed to the next generation.
Im in micro now
, so this is some tight shit!
bigrand said:Nothing was said about "captured bacteria" but the point was made concerning the similarities between metabolisms of prok and euk cells. Sounds like thats what you are talkin about.
Free radicals are taken care of anyway by superoxide dissmutase, peroxidase, ext......so why do you think that any damage is mutagenic in nature and that the mutation is transcribed to the next generation.
Im in micro now
Because mitochondria replicate their own DNA.
About the free radicals--- superoxide dissmutase turns O2.- (free radical) into H2O2.. Then glutathione peroxidase uses glutathione to convert the H2O2 into water...
To be honest, I think it's a lot like AAS sides.. If you are prone to baldness, AAS may accelerate this. Same story with mitochondrial disease and DNP.
Andy
HappyScrappy
New member
I haven't read the article in muscular development - I heard it was good. they usually post references to where they got their info so that you can look it up.
that said - MD is owned by Twinlab, which makes supplements.
they routinely write articles in there discussing how good twinlab is, and how bad anything else is.
initially Twinlab was just an advertiser in there, but then MD hit hard times and Twinlab bought them out.
and Twinlab stock took a beating when the high ups lied about profits and then there is talk of a scam and embezelment as well.
that said - MD is owned by Twinlab, which makes supplements.
they routinely write articles in there discussing how good twinlab is, and how bad anything else is.
initially Twinlab was just an advertiser in there, but then MD hit hard times and Twinlab bought them out.
and Twinlab stock took a beating when the high ups lied about profits and then there is talk of a scam and embezelment as well.
O'Stanozol
New member
I dont know if you guys know, but a little wise guy from quebec, he was about 15 or so
discover that Ginko Biloba (spl) slow down the production of the azheimer cells.
So if we use DNP, we might supplement with that supplement ???
discover that Ginko Biloba (spl) slow down the production of the azheimer cells.
So if we use DNP, we might supplement with that supplement ???
Keep it beefy
New member
yo andy, in response to what you wrote...i don't think it makes much of a differance. they say that metabolism is boosted around 70% or so while you're on it. and with that, like you said, is an increase in the utilization of energy to power the ETS. big friggin' deal. so i'll be accelerating my aging by 70% for the week that i'm on dnp, who the fuck cares. i'll get ill 5 days sooner than i would without it. oh no!!! if people actually cared about that, then cardio would be bad too, because it elevates use of the ETS, which would also lead to more free radical production. bottom line, free radicals are produced during exercise, and every day activities (not so much during lifting as lifting doesn't really use the ETS, just glycolysis), there jsut produced in a little bit more abundance while on DNP. but i garuantee you, that i generate more free radicals when i go on a biking trip, and bike 5 hours a day, than DNP could ever produce.
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